Tell the Truth?

[Lisa Roberts]

Hi girls, this is a super long story but I will make it as short as possible. I have been seeing a therapist for several years regarding my "gender dysphoria". My wife is been on board as long as I keep everything in the house. But as we all know, there is the urge to be in public cross-dressed. Now, I am a MIAD and could never pass but I am very comfortable being out En Femme. This past weekend I had the opportunity to be 1000 miles away from home in a city where no one knows me! What an opportunity for a cross dresser. So I did my research and found a transgender friendly area and spend the evening dressed to the nine's and absolutely feeling as free as a bird. So after arriving home, I recapped my weekend to my wife and I thought I was doing the right thing and told her about my outing. (As a sidenote, my therapist thought it was a good idea for me to do that especially if I was out of town). Unfortunately it didn't go over very well. So much for being transparent and honest! Apparently I missed the conversation where she said it is not OK to be dressed out anywhere. Now I feel like I've taken a five year step backwards in progress. I am exceptionally comfortable with who I am, but after 37 years together, my wife says she no longer knows who I am and how far I will push this. Sorry for being so long-winded, but you girls have been a great support for me over the last several years and I welcome any comments or suggestions.
Lace, Smiles and Harmony!
Lisa

[alwayshave]

Lisa, there are lies of omission and commission. This is one of those cases where neglecting to tell her would have benefitted both of you. I'm not saying that if directly asked you should lie, but having time to be you is not wrong and neglecting to tell her would have had you remembering your weekend fondly.

[T Gram]

First off...it's good you were honest with your wife. Second I'm glad you had a great trip and fun being "out" in public and felt good :) . Recently me and my SO who also is a CD went on a trip out of town and were completely comfortable with her being "out" . We didn't have to worry about possibly running into someone we know. Keep talking to your wife, communication is the key. She needs to understand it's kinda scary " I speak from experience "

[Teresa]

Lisa,
This is a tough one. We are in a no win situation, our partners don't want to know or see it and they don't want the thought of others knowing.

Don't blame the therapist , they know it's usually the eventual outcome, you need to be out to live it to fully come to terms with it . Maybe now is the time to ask how she feels about the safety of social group, I never thought my wife would accept that, she mostly think I have a great deal of courage top do it. OK it has lead to us separating because once a month isn't enough to satisfy my inner needs .

Sorry it feels like a big step back when you did finally find the courage to do it, the fact you are seeing a therapist must prove to your wife that your needs go deeper than she thinks .

[Tracy Irving]

If you told your wife EVERYTHING it would take too long and get boring really fast. Every day we pick and choose what our significant other needs to know, wants to know and should know.

[Krisi]

She didn't notice you packing all your "girl" stuff?

Hind sight is 20/20 of course, but you should have discussed this with her before you left.

[NicoleScott]

Most wives, regardless of their level of acceptance, don't want to be embarrassed by a crossdressing husband, so a "don't go out dressed" stance is a way to get that. And it's reasonable, especially for crossdressers who can't or don't pass or blend. My wife and I have an unspoken agreement that I don't go out in our home town.
Because of school and work commitments by other family members, I was able, for three straight years, to vacation alone at an already-paid-for time-share 700 miles from home. My wife knew I took my crossdressing things and was OK with my dressing up there. I went out, had no negative issues, had a fun time, behaved myself, and posed no chance of embarrassing her. I kept it to myself without guilt. I didn't embarrass her - that was the deal, or at least the intent of the deal.
I suppose I could have engaged her in a discussion about going out 700 miles from home, and whether or not forbidding it is reasonable, but I chose not to, and life went on without incident.

[Sara Jessica]

You know that the saying "sometimes it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission" doesn't apply here.

You had a plan. You went through with the plan. You told her afterwards. Are you amazed as to why she is ticked off? Didn't that cross your mind as the plan was coming together???

[Stacy Darling]

Missing some things, telling the truth!
When can you really get it right! At least you are trying!
Stick with the truth Lisa!

[Elizabeth G]

Hi Lisa,

I can't speak for your wife but embarrassment factor aside, one of my wife's concerns with regards to my going out dressed is for my safety. Perhaps some of your wife's reaction was due to a similar concern?

Elizabeth

[Jaylyn]

I think that honesty is the best in all situations and then let the chips lay as they land. Maybe you should have told her that you plan on dressing and going out. One false move or caught in deception makes the future harder to handle. I've found that lies can build till one can't remember the truth. I kinda learned this in high school and staying out past curfew then having to sneak back in the house. When your caught it gets you in deeper poop by lying about the matter.
My advice is to always try and be honest with your wife. They seem to respect a good heart to heart talk but we gotta remember that most of the wives married a man they loved and now that we are changing its hard for them to understand our needs that have changed. A good heart to heart can go a long ways but remember we also have to accept the results and respect their feelings in the matter we discuss.

[Sheila11]

Well...... now you know one of your wife's boundary lines. :love:

Don't tell her the next time you cross it.:)

[Micki_Finn]

It's possible that she was more upset that you just took a step, then told her without discussing it with her first. I can imagine the kind of paranoia that would cause. Every time you leave town now she has to worry that you're going to come back with boobs, or hormones, or a boyfriend. I'm willing to bet there would have been much less drama had you discussed it with her BEFORE you took that step.

[Lisa Roberts]

Kristi, that was the first shot in our discussion. But I did know deep in my heart that she would have not been very happy about that. So I get shot down for being honest and truthful. I guess that's Murphy's Law!

[Tina_gm]

I think the answer as to why things went south when you told the truth lies in the beginning of your post when you state that your wife is on board so long as things stay in the house. And then they didn't stay in the house.... She wasn't expecting that. It is not the truth which is causing any issues here but of a change you made by bringing it out of the house and without her knowledge of it beforehand. But that you knew you were and never discussed it with her prior. So in a sense, you are at least in her eyes probably hiding behind the truth, but while still being sneaky about doing something that was already known to be not part of the arrangement.

The truth of course is always the better option, but in all honesty if you thought it was no big deal about dressing outside of the house you would have told her beforehand. You didn't because you were expecting the issue to go south and her not liking it, so you didn't tell her you were going to do it, then confessed to it later on. It still borders on a somewhat shady move on your part. It's not the going out part that is shady, just how you went about doing it.

[GracieRose]

I suspect that your wife wants it kept in the house so that you are not recognized by anyone that you (or she) knows. 1000 miles away certainly reduces the opportunity to be recognized, but it is still greater than zero. Perhaps she fears that once you've had a taste of success, you will do it again, closer to home.
One time we were at a hotel 1500 miles away from home, on vacation, not travelling with anyone we knew. I tried to convince my wife to let me dress up to go out on the hotel patio with her for a glass of wine. She was against the idea for fear of someone we know showing up and recognizing her and figuring out me by association. i explained that teh probability was almost zero of running into someone that knew us. We went out for the wine in drab, and sure enough, when we were walking back to the room, we ran across someone that works at a local store and recognized us. We did not recognize her. This makes my case harder to argue. :sad:
Nonetheless, the truth is always the best thing. Maybe more painful, but still the best.

[Lisa Roberts]

Gendermutt.... ouch! Well said and brutally honest. Those were her thoughts exactly. Being a cross dresser is extremely difficult and tormenting yet sometimes delightful and life-giving. Trying to find the balance is something I don't know I will ever find. The tension between my mind and body sometimes is absolutely overwhelming. I'm a very strong person but it is easy to understand the suicide rate for people like us. I just have to hold on to see what's coming next. Oh God I hurt so bad.
Tears of pain and torment,
Lisa

[Cherylgyno]

Gender mutt said it best.

[Teresa]

I do find some of replies very sad, the way marriage is described by some it's something being endured rather like a prison sentence rather than an enjoyable way of life.

Why should our wives/partners have the last word in every action and thought we have, we aren't children and yet some talk as if they still are and telling lies behind their parent's backs . As Lisa comments , no wonder the suicide rate is so high in the TG/TS group, I should know I nearly went down that road because of my wife's acceptance level.

Where is the so called love between partners , most of us don't dress for amusement it's part of our being, something most of us are born with . As I repeatedly say the honesty issue works both ways, and yet we are always the guilty party , we really are expected to wear a male straight jacket, and not deviate from our role . If most of us if we are allowed to express our female side it releases so much of a hidden side , in my case I feel a better side and kinder even tempered person. Traveling hundreds of miles away to attempt to reveal that other side is so wrong , and controlling .

I'm sure most women don't expect the results Mikki Finn suggest , I admit I had to repeat several time that I wasn't gay before my wife got the message.

Telling the truth is hard if our wives/partners don't want to listen , sometimes we are left no choice if we wish to express our female side .

Can we all honestly say our wives are 100% open and honest with us ?

[AllieSF]

I am on the border between partly your fault and partly hers. Ask her what she would have said (basically, yes or no) if you would have discussed it with her before. If it would have been NO and you suffer from some type of gender dysphoria (CD related), how would you have felt with the NO this time and the probable frustration further down the road knowing that she put you in a home bound cage?

I see it here all the time where the spouse says NO and the CDer puts it all away to suffer. If you can live long term with that spousal control over an important part of your life (Is it an important part of you?) then have at it and please do not lament your situation later. We hear that sad story all the time. As many say here, DADT comes in many shapes and forms. One actually follows those bold letters, where the CDer can live their life but not show nor talk about it with their spouse, maybe with some limitations regarding how close to home is too close. I think many here could live with that if it is a reasonable and mutual (as best as that can be arrived at) negotiation and decision. However, 1,000 miles from home should not be off limits. That is ceding way too much control over your life to your spouse. That to me is a strong signal to call a time out and have some very serious discussions with the spouse getting everything honestly and openly on the table and even enlisting the support from a professional third party like a therapist to reach some type of workable situation for both.

However, one day the CDer truly needs to stand up for him or herself and say, "Wait, what about my sanity?". It does not always have to be the other party's restrictive way. This incident is just one moment in your life and probably could have been handled differently. We all make mistakes and I will not be one to bash you for being human. However, I like to look at the bigger picture instead of looking at only a limited number of pixels. I do wish you the best of luck and hope that your post with all of its replies and suggestions helps you help yourself and your spouse to move forward.

[Lisa Roberts]

To all:
So many thanks for the varied and eye opening replies. There is so much wisdom to be shared among us. I don't know where I'd turn to without y'all. It's going to be a weepy few days and I'll pull up my big girl's and get on with life. I didn't ask for this life....not sure if I would change it if I could.
Lace and Tears,
Lisa

[Sometimes Steffi]

Sorry for your problem with your wife.

There are many people here totally into the "whole truth and nothing but the truth"

My mantra is "If it happened in Vegas, it stays in Vega."

Or, "i a tree falls in the woods when no one is around, did it make any noise?"

I try to tell nothing but the truth, but not necessarily the whole truth.

For example, I used to go out once in a while and meet up with a bunch or gurls.

I told my wife that I was going out drinking with the guys. It was technically true. she told me afterwards that she never believed me, but didn't stop me from going out.

No I tell here that I'm going to a crossdressing event, tell her when I'm leaving and when I expect to return.

I leave in boy mode and return in boy mode, and carry a duffle bag to the car. she doesn't ask where I change, where I'm going or who I'm with, and I don't tell her. DADT

That being said, there's not a single answer that works with everyone all the time.

[Karen's Secret]

Consider this... You suffer from heart issues and your doctor prescribes a daily blood pressure medicine and a daily aspirin, but your wife doesn't believe in taking any medicines because it's not natural (maybe how she feels about crossdressing). Would you stop taking the medication or would you find a way to take your daily pills and just keep her in the dark about it? Perhaps dressing is your medicine that you need to take from time to time for the benefit of your physical and mental health.

[Stephanie47]

With hindsight I guess you should have discussed "going out" with your wife. When I was on the road for my job I did take a feminine wardrobe. I did stay at a Marriott Residency for a week. I did doll up in the evening. I did not go out. Probably for the reasons an accepting but not participating wife would have. Yes, maybe she has concerns of safety, which really means she is fearful of her husband finding his way to an emergency room all dolled up. The husband could be a victim of foul play or just run down as a pedestrian or an auto accident. Yikes! Total embarrassment. Cross dressing husband run down shown on the nightly news!

Would your wife have agreed to taking your feminine clothing on the road? Dolling up in the privacy of your hotel room? Would the hotel housekeeper seen it? You die in your sleep all dolled up?

I ascribe to the belief that much of this resistance by wives is the belief society will look at her and say "What's wrong with her? Why does she stay with a man who wears women's clothing? There has to be something wrong with her!" Basically, if you stroke out and die at home, she has the opportunity to remove your clothes and makeup before she calls the coroner.

[TheHiddenMe]

Last October when my wife was out of town I took advantage and did girl things locally. I was driving home and she asked me what I was doing and I was honest, and told her I went out dressed. She was not happy.

Her exact words were "lie to me". So I do. I get out when I can, have cover stories to explain being out of the house, and often bring a change of clothes where I leave the house dressed and come back in drab.

I know honesty is theoretically the best approach, but it doesn't work in my circumstances. It may not work best in yours.

[Tina_gm]

Gendermutt.... ouch! Well said and brutally honest. Those were her thoughts exactly. Being a cross dresser is extremely difficult and tormenting yet sometimes delightful and life-giving. Trying to find the balance is something I don't know I will ever find. The tension between my mind and body sometimes is absolutely overwhelming. I'm a very strong person but it is easy to understand the suicide rate for people like us. I just have to hold on to see what's coming next. Oh God I hurt so bad.
Tears of pain and torment,
Lisa

Dear Lisa. I think truth and honesty has to start with ourselves before we can accomplish it with others. I was not and hope you don't take what I wrote as a personal put down. I don't speak from expertise, just my own experience making somewhat similar mistakes. I made a big mess of Halloween a couple of years ago. Not because of not telling her, but down deep I knew I was pushing things way too far. The disaster wasn't from her lack of acceptance, she tried, but it was too much for too long and my selfishness cost me. I knew deep down it was too much. So as we are only human we can only learn and move on. I feel very much quite often as you do. Torn, conflicted, hurting inside for the gender issues i have from birth i never wished for. Hang in there.

[Lisa Roberts]

Oh absolutely no ill will Gendermutt. Very wise words and sincerity appreciated!! Still weepy but feeling a little better. Thanks to all!!
Lace and Smiles,
Lisa

[Becky Blue]

To some extent this highlights one of the problems with DADT situations - Don't Tell what, where is the line?

Lisa, basically your wife was ok with you keeping it in house, your interpretation of 'in house' was going out far away from the house, thus the discord. I can see why she was upset in this particular case, but it raises the bigger question of who sets the rules?

[Tina_gm]

Ultimately we all set our own rules. Perhaps we may base them on our partners wishes or demands on being together. When I read of the sometimes strong differences of our partners who say don't do X or else, well, that is their choice as much as it is ours. Our lives effect their lives. It may not be fair to us to limit what we desire to do or how to dress, but equally so of them. It isn't any more fair to them should we choose to dress and live as a woman when they married a man. So, one way or another, a hard choice or compromise will need to be made. None of it is easy for us or them.

Some partners for whatever reason can go with it, many can't, for whatever reason. To those that can t or really just choose not to, their choice or ability is equal to our own. Sometimes it just may come down to parting ways. Separating and divorce happens now more than 50% of the time, for so many reasons, and ours is one of them.

[Christy Diane]

I have to agree with some of the other lady's here. Like other wives my wife would not want me to be discovered to be a creossdresser in our small conservative community. So I don't go out in during the day when I'm home (I have been for a few late night drives).
I have, ventured out a few times when I've been away from home by myself. These opurtinities are few and far between, but I'm OK with that. The few times I have ventured forth I have not disclosed with my wife. I know it would only upset her.

[Lisa Roberts]

Stephanie47
"I ascribe to the belief that much of this resistance by wives is the belief society will look at her and say "What's wrong with her? Why does she stay with a man who wears women's clothing? There has to be something wrong with her!"

Steph- SPOT ON!
I'm certain that is what my wife thinks even though she denies this in part. She doesn't like to be embarrassed.
Lace and Smiles,
Lisa

[Teresa]

Lisa,
Members like myself who have fought against the odds and manged to step out the door I feel owe something to those in your situation. I hope to stay with the forum when I finally get my freedom to support others . Being embarrassed, feeling shame and guilt are words that shouldn't apply to our situation . By being out we are hopefully helping others with the acceptance level with society. Sometime ago I asked the question about being out and over 60% were out, partially out or truly wanted to be, very few truly wanted to remain in the closet, and of those DADT was the deciding factor .

Again I suggest a social group so you can strike a compromise with your wife, they do offer a safe environment to meet other CDers, once your wife has accepted they aren't just for hooking up with other guys .

[rian]

I think there should be a limit to tell your wife because she is scared that you might turn into a woman at the end and stop being her husband ...this idea haunts all wives once they know you went out side ,,,as if the bird has left the cage ,,so she feels that she lost control of your crossdressing .....do not tell everything ...so it will not be a lie ....

[Lisa Roberts]

Christy- PM me please.

[Tina_gm]

Lisa,
Members like myself who have fought against the odds and manged to step out the door I feel owe something to those in your situation. I hope to stay with the forum when I finally get my freedom to support others . Being embarrassed, feeling shame and guilt are words that shouldn't apply to our situation . By being out we are hopefully helping others with the acceptance level with society. Sometime ago I asked the question about being out and over 60% were out, partially out or truly wanted to be, very few truly wanted to remain in the closet, and of those DADT was the deciding factor .

Again I suggest a social group so you can strike a compromise with your wife, they do offer a safe environment to meet other CDers, once your wife has accepted they aren't just for hooking up with other guys .


Teresa, one thing I often feel is that there is a somewhat myopic view of the relationship dynamic. Also, that you, and many others in a similar situation as yours ( a common one) do not understand how a DADT type of arrangement CAN work. It doesn't and cannot work in your circumstance. Your entire identity is at least other than male. Nothing wrong with this. It is a reason many of us are here. But, not everyone here has the identity issues you and others in a similar situation do. Some may have solid footing on both sides of the gender fence. So for those who can live a life and feel contentment with a male identity, even if it is only part of their identity, a DADT arrangement is a possibility with success.

Also, what I often see from many members here, is how they do not ever consider the impact of their partner. 1st, the most basic element, a heterosexual woman who marries or commits to what she thought was a man one day finds out he really isn't a he, inside at least. Love can conquer a lot, but just as it can't change our gender issues, it can't change sexuality either. That is what many here are basically asking of their wives. They can't change anymore than we can. In some cases, a partner can go with it. It doesn't make them better, just unique in their ability to do so, while not changing their sexuality, as one simply can't. It is one good reason we see so few GG members on this site who are totally ok with their partners gender issues and can walk with their partner regardless of gender path. We do see more GG members here who struggle with it, doing their best to accept it as they can. That is the norm.

I always am in agreement that it isn't fair to us to be limited, but equally unfair to partners to try to be or expected to be what they are not as well. Teresa, your impending separation is likely the right path for both you and your wife. Neither of you can provide the needs of the other. That is not a crime on either of you, it just is what it is.

I really do not like the ideas and the language of freedom, or lack there of. You and anyone on here have all the freedom to be and live as you are and desire to. It just comes with consequences for most who are in a situation similar as yours. That is life. We see this outside of transgender issues as well, when a partner takes a different path in life, makes such major changes that the other partner just cannot. I am not just talking sexuality here, but of career paths and interests and any other major life change that may occur. It often has the tendency to pull a relationship apart.

While we are free to take on society and rise above whatever feelings of embarrassment, guilt, shame etc etc, that is our choice, hide in the closet or make the big leap out of it. But when we do make that leap, our partners no longer have any choice in the matter. They now have to confront those issues whether they wish to or not. The issues of a partner of a transgender person in relation to embarrassment, guilt, shame and whatever other facets of society are not exactly the same as ours. They still confront these issues, but at a bit of a different angle and perspective. In a way it is easier for us to say this is who we are we have no choice but to be who we are. But for our partners, they are by staying with us making a choice, and by making that choice do get looked upon somewhat differently than we do.

Just like how we see the younger generation having greater acceptance and being out much earlier in life, and people getting to know them pretty much from an early age as to where they only really know them as transgender, what of people of our generations, who have only known us to be men for decades. And our wives to only know us as men for perhaps as long? Again, the perspective changes. It is one thing for someone to accept a female partner who chooses a transgender partner from the beginning and everyone knows the couple in that dynamic. But going from the typical husband/wife or male/female partner dynamic to the transgender dynamic after so many years and with the far less acceptance of our generation, well, we simply are asking too much for most. It is not even so much they don't want to, they can't. They can't because they weren't brought up in that world. They can't because of their own sexuality of who they are. They can't because after decades of living with the man they thought they were living with, the man turns out not to be a man.

To those who choose to limit their dressing or lifestyle, that's their choice. I believe ultimately it is not about those of us who do make that choice loving our partners more, or being tougher or braver or whatever else, in the end it really comes down to our own gender needs. There are some who martyr themselves, or never feel worthy of being their true selves. That isn't a prison set up by their wife or partner, but of their own prison. No freedom is being taken from them, they simply are not allowing themselves to be true to themselves. To the others, the choices made to limit are simply not strong enough to warrant such a change. And there is no crime regardless of where any of us are in the spectrum. We are no better or worse regardless if we are just taking a break now and then from the masculine/feminine world, or if we identify as opposite the gender we were born as.

[Lisa Roberts]

Dang, gendermutt!!! Very detailed and moving entry. You have an exceptional command of the English language. Truly a pleasure to have your thoughts on this topic. Thank you!!
Lace and Smiles
Lisa

[kimdl93]

'.....it is not about those of us who do make that choice loving our partners more, or being tougher or braver or whatever else, in the end it really comes down to our own gender needs. There are some who martyr themselves, or never feel worthy of being their true selves. That isn't a prison set up by their wife or partner, but of their own prison. No freedom is being taken from them, they simply are not allowing themselves to be true to themselves. To the others, the choices made to limit are simply not strong enough to warrant such a change. And there is no crime regardless of where any of us are in the spectrum. We are no better or worse regardless if we are just taking a break now and then from the masculine/feminine world, or if we identify as opposite the gender we were born as."

Struggle as I may with either defining or accepting myself, in the end, this is about me. My ex's didn't sign on for this....well both knew I was "different" but neither they nor I knew what that meant. That was true for most of my adult life and both marriages. Even today, I'm not totally sure what being transgendered means.

Perhaps, when we are all capable of discussing gender without prejudice, we may begin to know ourselves and each other better!

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
I guess that situation has just evolved. Sometime ago Reine talked about the pendulum swing when it finally comes to rest is where your balance is . In my case it's outside my wife's comfort zone. Yes she is Ok about it some days but others she tries to suggest obstacles she thinks I haven't thought of , that's the result of DADT in my case . It's left so much unsaid , if she knew all the facts she would probably want a divorce instead . Sometime ago I said I had to find ways to work round her, she has no idea how out I am and who knows, yes she is trying to cling onto the man she knew , it's becoming stifling. We know this has to happen, maybe there are more issues than just the CDing you talk about love and intimacy possibly holding things together , much of that faded even before my CDing became the issue it is now . I don't know if she would feel better knowing our separation was through me having affairs rather than thinking I want to present more as a woman, at least I'm still there for her and the family at the moment , I haven't betrayed them in that way .

When you ask a CDer honestly want they want , most will reply to be out freely to dress as they choose without DADT or social pressures , any constraint on that is destructive in some way to the CDer, that then impacts on the rest of the family in some way . The forum is always full of stories along those lines , most CDers suffer in some way, the forum is here to help them more than their partners .

[Allsteamedup]

It may surprise readers to know that women have constraints in dressing (appearance), too so the notion that the cder can go out unrestrained is either folly or another fantasy.

Gendermutt's posting is superb. It should be saved at the top of the messages here.

Women who are uneasy about partners going out of the home dressed are not trying to seek control at all. If you begin saying you want to wear a dress which eventually escalates to all the props for a passable appearance in your home, that is an entirely different situation to going out of the home. The one exhibits an appearance in the home, a place of safety, and the other going out to meet people. When you step out you are in deception mode, trying to convince any passer-by that you are a woman, but you are not. You get a huge thrill from this deception.

The question the woman asks herself is 'why does he want to go out to meet people dressed as a woman?' The answer is not obvious to her. Perhaps you have spent hours trying to convince her you are not gay, but now you frequent gay bars. You chat to sales assistants, go for a coffee. She cannot see the point. If you then try to explain how it makes you feel, that is cause for another round of anxiety on her part. There is more to this than you are admitting. Every wife who has accompanied her partner dressed has run into the meeting someone you know, no matter how far from home. The people you mix with largely you would not choose to introduce to your wife. The safety issue is always there, too.

Again, trying to dismiss a spouses anxiety as tiresome is disrespectful. You caused this situation so you have to deal with it.

[Teresa]

Allsteamedup,
I'm sorry you have made some mistakes in your assumptions.
You are assuming the wrong reasons for calling them props and go out to deceive. You have not grasped what CDers with GD/AGP suffer with , it not so much the thrill but an anxiety when we go out , most of us know we will not pass but it doesn't stop the motivation driving from within.

I do not frequent gay bars and don't intend to but then that comment is being unfair to the gay community , as if they are committing a serious crime .

The other important point you overlook is many wives / partners accompany their CDing partners to social meetings or shopping, my wife has never been excluded from accompanying me , the GGs always stress she is welcome to come along and chat at the meetings.

Sorry we did not cause this situation , our brains were wired this way at birth, we had no choice in the matter . Please understand most of us try very hard to keep it private , we know it's not behaviour expected from a man , that takes a very long time to come to terms with on occasions . We are not criminals just because we have to lie because society imposes restriction on how they expect a man to behave , we are not bad people, in fact given full acceptance we are very thoughtful caring people because of the female trait.

Many of a woman's anxieties are based on irrational fears , sadly imposed DADT doesn't allow us the opportunity to fully explain it My wife has come to realise the mistakes she's made now but it's too late the damage is done . It has taken two to come to this situation !

[Tina_gm]

The fears that the man they married is one day to become or is in the process of becoming a woman they don't know? There's nothing irrational about this at all.

This site is basically a constant repitition of that very narrative. Just because we don't all fully transition doesn't mean the man she fell in love with doesn't change or reveal their true self to someone other than who she fell in love with. Why does any of us find fault for them to grasp onto that man she fell in love with, hold onto him, try desperately to keep that man....

It's NOT the transgenderism women have such a hard time with, it's how we deal or have dealt with it. It's the deception, the lies, the ever changing dynamic. It's not knowing when and where we will end up. The I don't know or didn't know answer does them no good.

Any woman who sticks around after it becomes known pretty much understands it isn't a choice of who we are.

Dadt.... isn't for everyone. But it is ok for some. Or maybe just not to have the entire marriage revolve around transgender issues.

I'm always somewhat surprised at how little understanding many on here who dress as and emulate women, wish to one yet have so little understanding of them.

Lastly, again, we can't change, yet they can? And even for the few who can, we hold this expectation on them all to be able to, and also the selfish notion that they need to do all of the compromising, living a lifestyle alien and uncomfortable, because it's not fair for us to have to.....

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,

I know we've had conversations on this issue before, sometimes heated but the obvious point is we are on different playing fields with totally different players . We will never agree on certain issues because our CDing is based on different needs . I've needed the freedom to find myself, they aren't selfish motives , struggling through acceptance and DADT means I can now be honest with myself and my wife . She will soon be free to build her life on the issues she can deal with and not have the niggling problems my lifestyle brings. I will have the way clear to truly come to terms with my needs and build my lifestyle as I chose . We are lucky our children are on board and understand but maybe not totally accept our new lifestyles. Yes it does also bring to an end the deception and lies that grow out of DADT situations. Much of the time the situation will be centered on TG issues until they can be put on the table and dealt with in an adult way. We are adult married couples not children, the problem with DADT is it sometimes leave us being treated like children, and perhaps naughty ones that need to be punished . CDing may start in our childhood but by the time we come to terms with it we are adults. OK sometime we do need to grow up with it and stop trying to be too girly and sissy, that is another element wives may despair over.

I hope others reading this will realise why it's best eventually to come out to your children, I always stress that it's still better to wait until they are adults so they can deal with the situation in an adult way .

[Tina_gm]

I'd like to state for the record 1st that I am not in a total dadt arrangement. What mine is, is more of a don't ask don't show. Basically, I just don't dread in her presence and don't tall about my times when I dress in any detail. It is assumed by my wife that whenever I am home and she is not i am dressing. It's left at that and she will be courteous to sometimes provide me times to do so, and always let's me know when she is on her way back. She has even asked me if I've had enough "alone time". I'd it makes it easier for her to say that, then why push it.

I don't st all disagree with what you are doing now, you probably should have been doing this long ago. Only going by the description of the state of your marriage, but had that been me I would have been gone long ago. That could be looked upon as either more selfish or less depending on perspective.

What I disagree with, or better phrased counter with us that dadt or a version of it similar such as my arrangement can work, given the right circumstances and that it is done respectively by both parties.

I also disagree with your assessments of women's acceptance in general. I feel you do not always consider the impacts it has on YOUR wife, or of others. Not all wives will be impacted the same. Some do have a unique ability to roll with it. That expectation cannot be placed on all women.

I have said this about my wife, she does not have nearly the ability to accept what some other wives on here or members wives do, but she also has come as far and in some cases farther than others considering where she started with all this. I do often have to remind myself of this. I think it would be wise for all if us in the relationship dynamic to consider where their wives came from. How long before knowing, or knowing all. Her personal social surroundings, her family, her faith
When all of those components are not in favor if not fervently against trans, just being with us still, even as just crossdressers is like climbing mt Everest in heels.

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
I see the dressing at home slightly differently , I was never comfortable with it because my wife knew I was waiting for her to leave, that is not a nice feeling knowing your partner feels like that. The other point is being frightened to walk back through her own front door unless she rings first , alienating your partner from her own home isn't a good situation , that can lead to falsely feeling ashamed and guilty for wanting to dress.

In my case we had DADT arrangements but the goal posts moved from day to day, I tried to be consistent but she couldn't because she didn't accept it at all .
Trying to come to terms with it finally meant counselling, but as she didn't want to know what was discussed I again hit a brick wall. I had no way of moving on in attempt to come to terms with it . I guess the inevitable happened when I finally went out dressed to a social group, I finally felt comfortable being out and knew what my inner needs were.

Most of the rest of this story is in Loved Ones section . I don't agree with your comment about my assessment of women's feelings, I'm having to accept separation because I do care, we can't keep going through this destructive cycle . She can't roll with it so it's the only solution, neither of us can change .

[Tina_gm]

I never said it isnrfrom a lack of caring or love. From my perspective, it pervades this board of members who don't understand or misunderstand their partners struggles, fears, anger. I've felt for about as long as I've read your posts regarding your marriage it would/should end.

The norm is when it comes to our partners we will likely have to make hard choices one way or another. Dadt, or just a lot of limitation or to just go and do and be exactly how it is we desire if not need to be. In the end it really just comes down to what brings any of us the most peace, tranquility or just plain livability.

This situation 1st starts with us not being fully open and honest. To them or even perhaps ourselves. I'm guilty of both. Life has so many frustrations and I see this as mine. I'm truly blessed in many ways. Gender is right now my biggest issue in terms of frustration, but everyone has their own somehow. I honestly can't say I would make the exact choices I make if it weren't for the other facets of my life being what they are to me.

[sometimes_miss]

Lisa, there are lies of omission and commission.

We really have to stop holding that up. Not telling someone something is not lying. Otherwise, you could make the case that everyone is lying to everyone all the time, because we don't tell them absolutely everything we know. After all, if we know that our brother moved a paper clip two inches when he was three, and don't tell our SO about that, then we're assumed to be lying?

Ridiculous. This is a fallacy that we have to stop accusing people of, because it's becoming an easy target to paint on someone's back whenever you find out something you don't like that they haven't told you, and then yell, LIAR! LIAR! at them as if they've committed some horrible crime. NO ONE tells anyone else everything they know. NO ONE. It's simply impossible; you'd have to read back every memory you have of your life to them, and even then, if you forgot something, they could simply say you were hiding it from them.

Not telling someone something that they had not asked about, is NOT lying. If they ask you directly, and you leave out information pertaining to what they want to know, then THAT would be lying by omission. But not volunteering information outright is NOT lying.

How many of our wives tell us the intimate details of their sex life with previous lovers? Well, seems anyone who doesn't, is then lying to us, because they're not telling us things we MAY want to know. Shouldn't they tell us absolutely everything, so we get to decide what's important? By implying that we're expected to disclose every single bit of our lives, as, not knowing exactly what she needs or would want to know, and then declaring that we are all liars, is completely absurd, and we have to stop doing it.

[Tina_gm]

Not every omission is a lie, but when done in quantity, they give a purposeful false impression or presentation of who we are or what we are really doing. It's not technically lying, but it can and sometimes does create a falsehood, usually done purposely