Dumb law (does this actually exist)

[Michelle Crossfire]

To all those out in California, i was doing some research and came across this law,which supposedly is on the books in Walnut, California:

"Males may not dress as a female unless a special permit is obtained from the sheriff."

Any comment from our sisters in California?

[Fiona123]

I'm a paralegal, not a lawyer but it sounds way unconstitutional to me.

[Kayliedaskope]

Considering all the weird laws out there, I wouldn't be surprised.......

I found this, though ...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/arresting-dress-timeline-anti-cross-dressing-laws-u-s/

[alwayshave]

Michelle, I am a lawyer and it would be a violation of the 1st amendment freedom of speech clause, due process clause of the 5th and 14th amendment and the equal protection under the 14th. There are lots of laws that are artifacts on the books that are not enforced or enforceable.

[Sheila B Kelly]

Could be the sheriff runs a dressing service and is very territorial ...!

[Alberta_Pat]

I would not be surprised.

In 2009, an amateur wine making club wanted to hold a convention in California, only to discover that it was against the law to transport and taste
wine in a competition format.

Arnie, when approached with this information caused a bill to be presented in the State Senate to correct this.

Strangely, this law did not affect beer tasting competitions.

[GretchenJ]

It is the law as Michelle states in Walnut

http://qcode.us/codes/walnut/view.php?version=beta&view=mobile&topic=iii-17-17_31

[Lisa Roberts]

Rejoice! According to the article, we were crossdressing back in the 1800's. Mmmm... Petticoats and Corsets!!!
Lace and Smiles
Lisa

[Tracii G]

There is a law in Ky that says its illegal to run with an ice cream cone in your pocket.
Thats pretty silly.

[NicoleScott]

"...except for the purpose of amusement, show, or drama..."
That's a pretty broad exception.
"You're under arrest for crossdressing."
"I did it to amuse myself."
"Oh, OK".

[Stacy Darling]

Not a Californian Girl!

Mata Hari and the Spy world rattles a few bells here!

Stacy!

[Robertacd]

I would not worry about it as the same city has this law, and I doubt it in enforced.

Children may not wear a Halloween mask unless they get a special permit from the sheriff.

Mask or disguise–Wearing. No person shall wear a mask or disguise on a public street without a permit from the sheriff. (Code 1959, § 4237.2)

[jennifer0918]

This law may be in the books but not enforced. It may be one of those laws from the turn of the century. Likes Sarah Palin said "dress baby,dress."

[Teresa]

Michelle,
Is there any guidance how a sheriff should dress, both on and off duty ??

I'm sure somewhere in the US there are CDing sheriffs , it would be great if one came out in Walnut !!

[Krisi]

There are many laws in many places that are no longer enforced. This does not mean that they cannot be enforced. A law that seems unconstitutional can still be enforced until it is thrown out in court as such and then rescinded.

My point being that if you give a LEO a hard enough time, he or she could arrest you under that law. You would probably win in court but you would have to fight the arrest in court.

[Karen's Secret]

The City of Walnut is in Los Angeles County and law enforcement service is provided by the LA County Sheriff's Department. I can't imagine any LA County deputy sheriff enforcing this law under any circumstance.

[jennifer0918]

There are many laws in many places that are no longer enforced. This does not mean that they cannot be enforced. A law that seems unconstitutional can still be enforced until it is thrown out in court as such and then rescinded.

My point being that if you give a LEO a hard enough time, he or she could arrest you under that law. You would probably win in court but you would have to fight the arrest in court.

Ten-4 ...

- - - Updated - - -


The City of Walnut is in Los Angeles County and law enforcement service is provided by the LA County Sheriff's Department. I can't imagine any LA County deputy sheriff enforcing this law under any circumstance.

Good point Karen I had no idea what county Walnut is in but yes, no way Jose they will enforce this law in LA County when this includes west Hollywood, Long Beach, and vacinity.

[Barbara Jo]

Yeah , there are many laws (for many different topics) enacted a very long time ago that are still on the books but, are no longer enforced.
Some examples are some of the ridiculous traffic laws enacted during the very early days of the automobile.


Having said that, if a cop is determined to arrest you, they can find any number of recent laws to do so..
"Disturbing the peace" is a catch all charge where it's your word against the cop's'.

[Stephanie47]

With reference to the Walnut, CA law I would recommend asking the appropriate city council to repeal the law. Many laws are on the books which are not enforced. It would be interesting to see if any councilpersons would oppose its removal. A very long time ago it was common for men to play the role of women in plays or stage productions. It's interesting on its face that it does not mention women dressing as men. I suspect the jail is not big enough to arrest and hold half the town's population.

[Pat]

It may be on the books, but I believe it would be superseded by state law which broadly protects transgender people. There may be a fine point where you'd have to assert a transgender identity (that is, you're not just "a male dressed as a female without a permit.") But it's hard to imagine a law enforcement officer that would even try to make the charge given the state law.

[JenniferMBlack]

It sounds like one if those Blue laws. Alsi in California it is illegal to eat an orange in a hotel room and shoot whales from a moving vehicle.

[docrobbysherry]

There r thousands of obsolete laws on the books in every state in the Union dating back to the 1800's. As Pat explained, nearly all r superseded by newer ordinances. Some r quite entertaining. But, if u take them seriously you're simply paranoid!:eek:

Like my first trip into Mexico in my teens. The guys I was with were afraid to cross the street against a stop lite. Even when there wasn't a car in sight and the locals crossed wherever and whenever they liked without a care!:straightface:

[Micki_Finn]

The state of California considers gender identity a protected class, so even if this we're still on the books there, it's likely just a legacy law. Just ignore and go about your business.

[Joni T]

The City of Walnut is in Los Angeles County and law enforcement service is provided by the LA County Sheriff's Department. I can't imagine any LA County deputy sheriff enforcing this law under any circumstance.
Walnut is sandwiched between Diamond Bar and City of Industry.
Jon

[Gillian Gigs]

Many years ago there was a TV show in Canada in which a panel had to guess what law was being broken by a hapless individual who gets arrested. It was hilarious to see the absurd laws that are still on the books, whether they be federal, provincial, or municipal. It would take many hours and much money to remove them, so they are still there usually superseded by newer laws.

[Sarasometimes]

Sounds like the sheriff got a law passed so only he could crossdress. This assures that he will be the best looking crossdresser in walnut.

[Michelle Crossfire]

Well, here is another one, this time closer to home.

It is illegal to cross-dress in Ironton, OH

Ironton, for those who don't know, is right on the Ohio River across from Kentucky. Amazing what you can find when you are looking for something else.

[Kayliedaskope]

Michelle, most of the information I have found has been while I was looking for something else.

[Hollibelle]

Not really diectly CD, but there is a city ordanance here that makes it illegal for women to wear high heels downtwn. Obviously this is not enforced. At some point, a woman got her heel stuck and broke her foot/ankle.

[Jaymees22]

Perhaps we could all apply for a permit from the Walnut Ca. Sheriff, can it be done online?

[sometimes_miss]

Problem is, a policeman COULD arrest you, throw you in the clink, and have every reason to do so as long as these laws are on the books. Even if the judge sets you free the next day, if the government of that location doesn't get rid of that law, it can happen again to you tomorrow.

[~Joanne~]

Do you realize how many laws are on the books? There are millions upon millions. I never really paid attention to them for the longest time but a few years back I noticed that at the beginning of each new year a really large amount were signed into law.

In 2012, 44,000 new laws went into affect at the beginning of that year alone. each year afterwards, any where from 20,000 to as high as 36,000 went into affect. last year California ALONE passed 900 new laws.

They pick one or two laws to tell you about but the rest are pretty unknown and trying to look them up isn't easy. The moral of the story is, there are a whole slew of laws we are expected to obey that no one knows about. I would say, taking CDing out of it, that we break a law just waking up every morning. Quite simply, there are plenty of laws out there to help them fill their coffers or arrest anyone at any given time for any given reason. that's how out of control it is.

If i get arrested for wearing pantyhose, at least I am being arrested in style ;)

Here are 20 laws in the state that I live (MI) that are still on the books and how they ever made it to the books is beyond me:

Painted sparrow
It is illegal to paint sparrows to sell them as parakeets.

Running pig
It is illegal to let your pig run free in Detroit unless it has a ring in its nose.

Keeping Cows
Keeping their cow Anyone can keep their cow on Main Street downtown at a cost of 3 cents per day.

Making love in automobile
Making love in automobile Couples are banned from making love in an automobile unless the act takes place while the vehicle is parked on the couple’s own property.

Scowling
It is illegal for a man to scowl at his wife on Sunday. (Detroit)

Women's haircuts
A woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission.

Men seducing women
No man may seduce and corrupt an unmarried girl, or else he risks five years in prison.

Smoking
(there was no description for this, just "smoking")

Bathing suits
All bathing suits must have been inspected by the head of police. (Rochester)

Adultery
Adultery is illegal, but can only be punished upon a complaint by the affected husband or wife.

Confiscating items
Security guards at Joe Louis Arena will confiscate any item they feel might be thrown onto the ice. (Detroit)

Swear
You may not swear in front of women and children. (Repealed, 2002)

Decompression chamber
It is illegal to kill a dog using a decompression chamber.


Cars on Sunday
Cars may not be sold on Sunday.

Handgun license
Any person over the age of 12 may have a license for a handgun as long as he/she has not been convicted of a felony.

Abandoned hoop skirt
No person shall throw an abandoned hoop skirt into any street or on any sidewalk, under penalty of a five- dollar fine for each offense. (Grand Haven)

Serenade
It is against the law to serenade your girlfriend. (Kalamazoo)

Drunk on trains
Persons may not be drunk on trains.

Robber to file a law suit
It is legal for a robber to file a law suit, if he or she got hurt in your house.

Bounty for starling and crow
There is a 3 cent bounty for each starling and 10 cent bounty for each crow killed in any village, township, or city in the state.

[Karen's Secret]

Problem is, a policeman COULD arrest you, throw you in the clink, and have every reason to do so as long as these laws are on the books. Even if the judge sets you free the next day, if the government of that location doesn't get rid of that law, it can happen again to you tomorrow.

Honestly I think there's a better chance you'd get bitten by a rabid squirrel walking through a park (while crossdressed of course). The backlash against any police officer enforcing this law would be immense.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Michelle :hugs:, Hollywood could make a great comedy movie about the crazy laws still on the books...:daydreaming:...

[Barbara Jo]

Also keep in mind that traffic violation fines are figured into each town's budgets every year.
So traffic tickets must be given out no matter what just to support the towns budget.

The most treacherous time for this is late at night, particularly near the end of the month when cops are actively looking for people to give tickets to .
In the past when I worked nights, (and was on the road nights) I have gotten tickets for things that were not even illegal.
The hope is, you will not know that it is a bogus charge and pay the fine.. which very often happens.

Other times, they will just use the catch all... made up charge that you failed to stay in lane and you will have no defense for that, even if it is a total fabrication .

So, one must think twice about driving "dressed" at night as you then have the most chance of being stopped .

[StarrOfDelite]

There are many laws about gender identity and sexual orientation which are unenforceable but not yet repealed, particularly in municipal codes. Probably most of the local Sheriff Department in Walnut, California doesn't even know about the law you cited. I liked the suggestion by Stephanie47 that a movement to repeal it might force politicians who are trying to play both sides against the middle make a stand on gender rights.

[Adita Kali]

Bit of advice. Don't ask cops what is illegal. They don't fully know. It's more likely they will pull you over for what they think is illegal. Most arrests are probably the things they know are illegal. If you want to know if something is legal or not, call a lawyer or a judge. It's their job to know the law. I asked a cop if something was illegal and all they said was 'I wouldn't do it' even though the question wasn't would you do it, it was is it legal. Cops know things like speeding, drug possession, domestic abuse, ect. They know the general. You want fine details, talk to a lawyer.