Are We Normal ???

[deebra]

From the Etiquette post on here Nikki A states we (CDers) just want to be accepted and be perceived as normal people. Are We Normal??? What is normal, who is normal??? We as males crossdress and wear clothes made to fit females. We don't have breasts so why do we need to wear a bra? For a panty, thong, tight pants to fit like on a female it was designed for we have to tuck, push the B's up inside and pull the D back, is this normal like the rest of the "normal population"? We take on all the problems of dressing and presenting as a woman and up close we do not pass, why do this to your self? Women's clothes are more colorful and fit the body better than what's offered to males, the male grunge look is one step above homeless. Many male to female crossdressers look better as a female; so why not? Why isn't this accepted as being normal if you dress female to look better, women do all they can to look better, we accept this as normal.

Now for the rest of the "normal people", grossly overweight with rolls of fat hanging out, sloppy dressed, piercings, tattoos all over their bodies like a pre-school child with an ink pen, purple hair, the custom car guys on T.V., etc. If these "normal" people are accepted in society why then isn't a slim male neatly dressed in female clothing with a nice set of boobs rounding out her female figure/presentation accepted especially over the "normal" people just described? The CD has forms in her bra, the GG has silicone implants; what's the difference??? They both color their hair, this is accepted. Why this acceptance and not CD?? BTW cding is accepted when women do it, why not men?

So who the heck is normal, I have got to say we are treated unfairly by society and we persecute our selves by self inflicted guilt and shame.

I agree with Nikki A.

[Tracy Irving]

I have often heard that normal is just another word for boring.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
I'm beginning the think very few people are normal, what does the dictionary describe as normal ? The majority of people have quirks of some description, you only have to sit and do some people watching for a few minutes .

Basically what you describe are mostly the needs of a CDer , some of your descriptions come over as being abnormal, or possibly appearing as a caricature of women , so it could raise a few bad comments.

It comes back to deciding what is an acceptable appearance for a CDer, so we then step into the minefield of what is passable and why do you want to be when some aren't bothered and go out as MIADs . Then we have the TSs who have less choice and need to be out dressed to comply with their needs.

Society on the whole isn't too bad with accepting us, the problem lies with the negative thoughts in our heads, that is what we do battle with when we step out the door .

[Bobbi46]

Where I live there is no persecution only acceptance, in my hamlet there used to be a gay man who was great friends with all of us, he has moved on and now they have me the first CD/transgender person in living history in a hamlet of only 11 people, The do not see me as anything other than normal. So acceptance in some areas does work.
And to answer the question "are we normal"? of course we are just wired a bit different to the rest of humanity, a problem to be dealt with no not at all.

[aprilgirl]

Everybody has something they hide, or prefer to keep hidden. The key is to be comfortable in your own skin, and the rest will follow. Kim

[Stacy Darling]

deebra!

You and I should sit down with a coffee ( and I can't use other references )

Ever thought of a nice Japanese tea, steeped for just a minute!

Perhaps Mooncakes? We had mooncake last night for MAFestival

We are in no way normal as there is no such thing!

Stacy!

[Pat]

"Normal" has different meanings depending on context. In casual conversation it tends to be "expected" or "usual." But when talking about transgender folks I tend to think of it more as a statistical measure. Transgender people appear in all human populations -- people differ on the rate at which we occur, but everyone's model would agree for a large population -- say ten thousand, it would be ABnormal to find no transgender folks. So in my view we are normal, we're just rare. ;)

[sara66]

I hope that I am not normal, :heehee: Life would be way to boring.
I think it best said that we are out of the mainstream of gender perception.
Sara

[Stephanie47]

The simple answer is men who wear women's clothing are violating the established norms, rules and expectations of society. Society tends to penalize non conformers. How often have you heard the phrase, "That's not normal behavior?" Terms such as "customary, traditional, eccentric and others" are thrown around.

Even within your list of 'normal people' there are penalties. Overweight people do not get the jobs. Same with sloppy dressing, body piercings, tattoos, etc.

As far as cross dressing among women that is so old an argument it not longer holds water. Within my lifetime I've seen the moral code of conduct change. Once wearing pants was frowned upon and sometimes illegal. Again, societal expectations. Women's clothing may have adopted men's styles and modified the clothes to set them apart, e.g., buttons on a different side, etc. However, I don't see women attired in styles which were formally exclusively for men running around with bound breasts or sausages stuffed into jock straps. Depending where you live and where you hang out you may see a lot of negativity towards women who dress in male style clothes, cut the hair to a male look and so on. The perception is the women is a lesbian which does not go over well with a lot of society. This country is rampant with non acceptance of people who do not conform to their limited scope of norms and expectations.

[AllieSF]

I am normal. It is all the rest of those people that aren't!!

[Tracii G]

We are just another faction of non conforming people.

[docrobbysherry]

I must agree with Teresa. Once u get to know someone well, you'll discover that no matter how normal or "boring" they seem? In real life they ALL have their kinks and quirks!:eek:

I think arguing that trans r normal is lost cause, Deebra. However, I've met so many dressers in my time. And, other than their odd dressing habits, many r pretty boring and normal in every other facet of their lives!:straightface:

[Gillian Gigs]

To quote a line from a 60's movie, "why are you Americans so obsessed with bosom's". Well, western culture is obsessed with sex and that to me is the crux of the situation. Cross dressing is seen by society as being sexual, whether it is or not, to us. Weird hair colours and tattoos have become more acceptable, along with many other things, but CD'ing has a sexual stigma to it. It doesn't help that if you google CD'ing you can also get many porn sites, these characters are not helping the cause for what this site is attempting to accomplish! Are we normal...what's normal, we have our quirks just like every other person. It will take time to move past where society is sitting right now. What we need is Holywood to stop portraying us as either perverts, or clowns, and show average people with different tastes in clothes from the usual! The problem is that this is boring and would never sell.

[DIANEF]

Couldn't resist......

282830

[Kayliedaskope]

Define "normal."


"What is normal for the spider may be chaos to the fly."

[Nikki A.]

OK, since it was my comments that started this thread, I gotta get in my 2 cents.
What I am aiming towards, is that we want people to accept us wearing what we want or need to wear, and yet when and if we are approached we want to turn and run like we are doing something wrong or that we are ashamed of who we are. If maybe we started acting like we are "normal" then maybe we can speed up the process of this becoming "normal". As for myself when I go out and someone comes up to me I will have a conversation, be friendly and be myself. No CD/TG agenda, just me being me.

[deebra]

NikkiA. I agree with you for the second time, just act normal like every one around you.

[Susan Smokes]

I think normal is just another useless word. We are all just human beings to trying to be happy, and trying to express who we really are inside.

[KymG]

Normal?
No such thing i'm afraid....
Show me someone who is normal..

[CONSUELO]

I think Nikki's point is a good one. As a group we are scared of our own shadows. Yes, some of us are out there and accepted but so many of us are in the closet, even hiding it from our partners.
There was a time when being homosexual was considered abnormal if not a mental illness. Gays steadily fought back and came out and were proud. Over time they have achieved a great deal of acceptance and most people are not concerned about knowing a gay person. The CEO of Apple, a huge business, is openly gay. Meantime, while we often hear of some highly placed individual being a cross dresser, I cannot think of any who have "come out".

There are many definitions of normal but I think what is being referred to here is normal equaling acceptance. Until we stand proud ourselves and are no longer embarrassed to be cross dressers, we shall not be accepted and therefore not considered normal. Acceptance starts with ourselves not with others.

[CynthiaD]

Replying to the OP's comments: That all seems pretty normal to me.

In fact, I've often commented here that I don't crossdress for a thrill, I crossdress to feel normal.

[IleneD]

Proudly, NOT normal here.

[Nikki A.]

There are many definitions of normal but I think what is being referred to here is normal equaling acceptance. Until we stand proud ourselves and are no longer embarrassed to be cross dressers, we shall not be accepted and therefore not considered normal. Acceptance starts with ourselves not with others.

Consuelo I didn't want to re-post your entire reply, but you hit the nail on the head. Very eloquent and exactly what I meant to say.

Look, I'm not looking to lead a revolution and I know at times it is tough to be different and to run seems to be the best idea. I know I'm not particularly good looking or passable, but I do try to have a good time and I do savor my time out and about as Nikki. Whether it is in church, the supermarket, restaurant or just shopping. I (try) to act as if I belong, I'm not doing anything wrong and if I do say so myself I dress maybe one step up from what the other women are wearing. It is amazing that people will believe in you if you believe in yourself.

[Linda P.]

As far as i've observed, crossdressers are indistinguishable from non-crossdressers in every way except for crossdressing. That is to say, in terms of education, occupations, interests, marital status, cultural tastes, etc., no different from the rest of the population. As far as the "abnormality" of crossdressing, actually it's a gift.

[Fiona123]

The transphobic haters are the abnormal ones. You are right though much of our distress is self inflicted, in that we unwittingly carry the emotional baggage of society's hang ups about gender (sorry about that strained metaphor).

[Cherylgyno]

Normal has a different definition to each person. Go to a c&w bar where line dancing is normal. Every one doing the same exact thing night after night... Try doing a couples dance to the music, suddenly you aren't normal.
I am a cross dresser, this is a fact. I have been a cross dresser for over 50 years. As a 6 year old child (the first time I dressed) I did it because it felt right and I wasn't harming anyone.
I wear the clothing that I wear today because it feels right to me. To me this is normal.
I have D cup breasts due to gynecomastia from prescriptions that I take. I wear a bra to support my girls. Is this normal? I believe it is.
I have pierced ears. Is this normal? I believe it is. Men were the first people to have pierced ears. I will add here that I didn't get mine pierced to look manly.
My every day clothes are micro fiber boyshorts, matching bra and hold up stockings. I am searching for women's jeans as I am sick of men's jeans. According to the people at the local LB they will have jeans to fit me in stock before Christmas.
Normal to me is just being me and not doing anything to harm any one.
I hope that I satisfactorily answered your question.

[Dana44]

First I do not persecute myself. I love myself am I normal, I hope not Life would be very boring if we are normal.

[Jaymees22]

Why be normal?

[Becky Blue]

Normal.. meh, I want to be different just like everyone else!!
But in all seriousness what does normal mean? I think its a relative term, so for example I am not a CD nor am I I transgendered, I am in the middle. So does that make me abnormal when it comes to CDs? Am I a normal middle person?

[Robin777]

I think I'm normal. I don't care what anyone thinks.

[redtea]

i don't feel normal so i guess no...

If we were normal than it wouldn't be so common for us to hide our secret.

Men wearing a t-shirt is normal for i could go out on a hot summer day and likely find at least 50% of the men wearing a t-shirt and the rest are wearing some variation of dress shirt/polo/long sleeve ect.


Besides if CDing were normal lots of us wouldn't even do it. Part of the allure for me is the taboo nature of it

[Lacey New]

I am a perfectly normal crossdresser

[Bobbi46]

I used to be normal but now? I am still normal but a different normal! and as normal as the rest of you girls as well

[Lindaa]

I am my normal, and that pretty much changes from day to day on my feelings. i guess ive just reached a point in my life where someone else deciding what my normal should be dosnt interest me at all.

[Jean 103]

Close to two years ago, my friend Dave and I are standing in the middle of the bar talking. Looking around Dave says " you know we are the only normal people here." I'm in a dress and heels which for me has become normal, as said the term in relative.

[Leah Love]

Normal...who wants to be that???

Like many of us here, I tried to be normal for so many years. The thing was...I was trying to be their normal, not my normal. My normal is all kinds of jacked up! I’m not just talking about Leah either...there are all kinds of Little day to day stuff I do that’s not normal for some, but it’s completely normal to me.

There are 7.5B people in this world...so, I think there are 7.5B definitions of normal.

[CONSUELO]

Jean's comment reminded me of a joke said to come from Yorkshire in the UK.

Two men in a public situation and one looks around and says to the other "Everybody in the World is queer (in the old fashioned sense of the word and not meaning gay) except me and thee, and I'm not too sure about thee"

[JeanTG]

Are we normal? Yes.

Are we sartorial conformists? Not so much!

Everyone has quirks and kinks. Not to have any would, I think, be abnormal. I no longer feel shame over this but I do feel shame over some of the ways I tried to deny it.

[Beverley Sims]

I must admit I have reservations about how I act sometimes

[Jaylyn]

I'm the only person that matters on my normal scale. My darling wife tells me all the time to quit being so judge mental of people. To me that's how I think if others don't think and act like I do they are the ones not normal. I believe every one has their own opinion of normal and see the world as they preceive it should be. If you are out of my preception then you are the one not normal, thus I conclude there is no such thing as normal on a measuring scale of all humans.

[Kayliedaskope]

Normal has a different definition to each person. Go to a c&w bar where line dancing is normal. Every one doing the same exact thing night after night... Try doing a couples dance to the music, suddenly you aren't normal.

Line dancer here .... WE are the ones who aren't "normal" to the couples. There used to be a thing called dance floor etiquette, which basically meant respect everyone's space and accommodate all dancers, whether it be line or couple. That doesn't happen anymore. Now it's like a war where the line dancers have to fight to not be run off the floor by the couples. I have been run into many times by couples who thought those "f-----g line dancers" should be thrown out of "OUR place."

True story: I was at a club with some friends, minding our own business and dancing on 1/3 of the dance floor, leaving 2/3 of the floor for the couples. One jerk decided it would be funny to do a west coast swing right in the middle of our group, and started flinging his girlfriend all over the place, knocking line dancers left and right. They thought it was funny until he threw her towards me and she suddenly got an elbow jammed into the base of her spine ... Oh, and then it was MY fault because she got hurt from him flinging her into ME.

They got 86'd, we didn't.

[Jenny22]

Normal is whatever you want it to be.

[Bobbi46]

If you took our normal away from us and replaced it with a different kind of normal I guarantee we would all be on meds within a couple of days for sure. Which reminds me I need to take mine to keep me normal!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Deebra:hugs:, Normal, It's just mind over matter, If you don't mind then it doesn't matter.>Orchid...:daydreaming:...

[ReineD]

What do you mean by "normal". Average?

People are more than just one thing; they are multi-faceted. If you want to determine if you are average then you need to look at all facets of yourself and not just the clothes you choose to wear or whether or not you enjoy wearing makeup.

Here are some facets of personality or preferences:


What type of work do you do.
what type of vehicles do you drive.
What are your tastes in food.
What type of alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages do you prefer.
How do you furnish your homes.
What colors have you chosen to paint your kitchen walls.
What laundry soap do you use.
Do you like the outdoors.
Or do you prefer museums.
What political policies do you agree or disagree with.
How do you react when something good or bad happens in your life.
How would you react to seeing a child being abused.
How would you react should a partner cheat.
Are you religious or not.
Do you have friends and family, or are you a complete loner.
What time to you go to sleep and what time do you rise.


And any number of similar questions.

If your answers to the above are shared by a significant percentage of the population, then you are within the norms for those areas.



Do you wear items of the opposite sex for the explicit reason that they are opposite sex clothing.

If your answer to this question is not shared by a significant percentage of the population, then you are not within the norms for this area.

So in a nutshell, if you are way outside the norms on most everything I’ve listed here, then you are not normal. But, if you are within the norms on most things and outside the norms on only a few, then overall you are within the norms on a human scale. If, however, you want to measure the norms strictly on the enjoyment of wearing clothing belonging to or appearing like the opposite sex, then you are not within the norms.

[sometimes_miss]

From the Etiquette post on here Nikki A states we (CDers) just want to be accepted and be perceived as normal people. Are We Normal??? What is normal, who is normal???
Normal would be defined more by where you are. In downtown NYC wearing a suit is normal. In Aboriginal Australia, it would not be.
The hope is that at some point, even if we aren't considered normal, we will be considered acceptable. Much the same as women now wear pants in public, where as 140 years ago, they did not.

We as males crossdress and wear clothes made to fit females. We don't have breasts so why do we need to wear a bra?
Same reason girls look forward to getting their first bra; it's a mile stone in life, a passing from one point to the next. For many of us, it's a point where we go from thinking of ourselves as male, to thinking of ourselves as female. That's the reason we actually LIKE wearing bras, because the feeling of wearing one along with the visual feedback helps us feel as if we are female. Even the discomfort of an underwire, to us, is more of a positive thing, where as GG's pretty much hate it.

We take on all the problems of dressing and presenting as a woman and up close we do not pass, why do this to your self?
Because it feels good to do it, even when it's physically uncomfortable, it's psychologically comfortable.

Many male to female crossdressers look better as a female;
And many are delusional.

so why not? Why isn't this accepted as being normal if you dress female to look better, women do all they can to look better, we accept this as normal.
Because men dressing up to appear feminine is still not considered an acceptable thing in our society. There are deeply felt things which our society has held for thousands of years which make both males and females see men who embrace femininity as a problem. It appears that's ingrained into our cultures, perhaps even some genetic predisposition to see us as a potential threat to the safety of the society as a whole. Femininity is associated with submissiveness. A male is expected to be part of the protection for the tribe. If there is any reason that you might suspect him to act submissively in battle defending his tribe, he is not an asset, but a danger to his own group. Tribes that encouraged men embracing femininity were more likely to die out. So it's the ones that survived, which hold the current beliefs that men should never behave in any feminine manner, EVER.

Now for the rest of the "normal people", grossly overweight with rolls of fat hanging out, sloppy dressed, piercings, tattoos all over their bodies like a pre-school child with an ink pen, purple hair, the custom car guys on T.V., etc. If these "normal" people are accepted in society why then isn't a slim male neatly dressed in female clothing with a nice set of boobs rounding out her female figure/presentation accepted especially over the "normal" people just described?
As described above. A male embracing feminine behavior can be considered to be a a potential threat to the society.



BTW cding is accepted when women do it, why not men?
The bigger mystery, is why do you keep posting this question? Seems like you start a thread with this question about once every two weeks or so.

[Brandie.n]

Yes yes we are everyone's got their own thing.We just so happen to look good when we do ours

[Angie G]

I'm Normal I think.:hugs:
Angie

[deebra]

ReineD, good professional answer, please answer this; the guys on the custom car shows on T.V. that wear funky hair styles, facial hair, ear rings, black ball caps over their ears, bandanas, and they all have tattoos, black T shirts and jeans. Society doesn't dress like this, are they normal? Are they the same or different than MtF crossdressers?

Sometimes_miss, and to your last sentence if my threads upset you then when ever you see my name just pass over it. I have received many personal messages that like what I say, have you? Even if I repeat the subject it helps new CDs that have just come on the site. How often do you post a new thread to keep this site going?

[Jane G]

I so hope I'm not normal. I work for a multinational corporation, They spend a huge amount of money and time trying to ensure, that their employees fit corporate expectations. God forbid that I should fit in. I'm who I am. I will bend to those I love, but honestly, sod the rest.

[Aunt Kelly]

"Normal" is that there is a percentage "n" of the population that is TG. Studies and their various methodologies have assigned a range of numbers to "n", but it is a non-zero number, always.
As for why some don't accept that, fear and ignorance, the same things that give rise to all manner of hatred towards "the other".

[Teresa]

Lexi,
I'm not with this reasoning on Cders being a potential threat !

It's almost the same question of what is normal ? So what is a potential threat? If you list them as Reine has done I would think the threat from a CDer would be near the bottom of the list .

I don't find women's clothes physically uncomfortable, femininity in men is definitely on the increase , men and women are closer in many ways than they have ever been, so many aspects of life now are lived on equal terms .

[sometimes_miss]

Lexi,
I'm not with this reasoning on Cders being a potential threat !

WE aren't the threat; what we are, to the general public, are MEN who potentially won't live up to what historically has been our responsibility to protect OTHERS. We're seen as girly men, submissive, who might shirk away from a fight, which could leave someone else (women, children, elderly, etc.) vulnerable to danger because we might regress into the silly little girls that they think we all are.

[Wendy me]

I have breasts 38 c the guy ting likes to be tucked away
And sweet heart I am as close to normal
As a male thing can be with a name like Wendy can be

[StephanieM]

Depends on how you perceive normal, I suppose.
The reality is when it comes to being human, and how we behave there is no such thing as normal, since everyone is so different.
However there are certain things that society perceives as normal, and we obviously don't fit in that category and frankly I don't care about being normal in any aspect of my life. I believe in what I believe in, and do what makes me happy as long as I'm not hurting anyone else in the process.

[Lana Mae]

Normal is boring! I guess I am pretty normal or not! Who knows and who cares? Hugs Lana Mae

[char GG]

BTW cding is accepted when women do it, why not men?

Not sure what you are referring to here but most women do not "crossdress". This is not the 1800's. Obviously you have hit a nerve with most GG's. Most women who wear pants, jeans, or whatever are doing it for the accepted fashion of society. Most women who were pants, jeans, or whatever, do not expected to be called "sir" and if they were, would be highly offended. Look at any store flyer that comes in the mail, you will see women's fashion as pants, jeans, shorts, and dresses. Please note that I said "most". I'm sure there are women who definitely crossdress and expect/want to be accepted as being a man. And how would you know that they are "accepted". Maybe they have the same concerns as you do.


Many male to female crossdressers look better as a female

This is your perception.

So, you say that you want to be accepted as "normal". Well, since there are all types of people including the ones that you focus on as being "overweight", I don't believe you should be judging who is "normal". The world is made up of all types of people and I am not in a position to judge them. Maybe you should get comfortable with yourself and stop worrying about how people perceive you.

[LilSissyStevie]

Normal is a vector perpendicular to a given surface. In some surreal way that describes me perfectly.

[jennifer0918]

Absolutely

[karrin]

Normal.. is a cycle on a washing machine,(to sound corny) no matter how different something is, give it enought time and it seems normalor something like that. (stacy darling) stacy, you mention japanese tea, very nice indeed, (gyokuro imperial) with half tsp. honey one of my personal fav. to be honest, mooncake not familliar with that. on a personal note I enjoy reading the comments that are written here. I only wish I could write so well be safe all karrin

[terza]

funny that greed, alcholism, and quite a few of other harmful behaviours are the norms. i have a lot of norms, virtue and vice. but for the CD thing, i'm not normal.
the LGBT in 'murica is about to take a hit, or the very least another fierce civil battle. whether i'm under the umbrella or not, i'm in full support of everyone --LGBT, all flavours of CD, etc.-- into a single population protected against violence and discrimination.

ridicule and tease will never go away, but a society that fails to condemn, and punish, violence, murder, and discrimination (upon a scapegoated class), that needs to go away. justice -some assurance of not getting fired and/or brutalized is an adequate norm as far as i'm concerned.

[Bobbi46]

Of course we are all normal it is all the unbelievers, bigots and haters of our community who are not normal. Am I normal? yes definitely just like the rest of us.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I have a lot of statistical training and experience. There is a distribution (think of it as the rainbow) that is called the "Normal Distribution". The theory is that everything can be described by the Normal Distribution. That being said, the Normal distribution covers a large range. Some are in the middle and some others are at the extremes, but we're all "normal".

283045