Always the outsider

[patti1569]

All my life I have felt like I didn't really fit in anywhere. Not like I was a misfit or an outcast, but just not quite like everyone else. I always get along with people and fee like I am usually liked by most, but never am able to make deep connections and don't have many close friends. In group setting, I always feel like I'm on the outside, and often left out of whatever the group is doing. I'm wondering if it just my personality, or if this is a common feeling that most crossdresser feel throughout their lives? The flip side of it is that I really have a deep desire to "belong". Is that also common in our community? Just wondering what others have experienced and have gone through.

Thanks for reading! Patti.

[Lana Mae]

Now that you mention it, yes! Always like on the outside fringes of groups! I was able to freely move about the various cliches without being hindered by who I was, I was just sort of accepted by all but not really a part of any of them! Very strange! Hugs Lana Mae

[Kayliedaskope]

I've often felt the same way, Patti, and that doesn't even include the cross dressing aspect. Sure, people like me, I'm generally friendly to everyone, but in group settings, I tend to drift towards the outside, let others take the limelight. Why? I don't know .... maybe being on the edge of the crowd instead of the middle gives me more opportunities to escape. I don't know about the "belonging" part, and like you, only have a few really close friends. I'd say it's more personality-based than CD-based. Where do I fit in? I don't know - I'm still trying to figure that one out for myself.

[Gillian Gigs]

The way I used to describe it was, I was a square peg with nothing but round holes near me. I think it is the way our brains are wired. I know I don't think like others.

[Michaelasfun]

Yea me too. Maybe we should start a club! Lol

[Dana44]

I mostly was an outsider growing out that way and I did have some close very close friends. But really was successful and alone in my world..

[Pat]

I'd sign up for feeling the same way. I don't know that we can claim it's an absolute attribute of all TG people, but it certainly makes sense that if we don't want to be part of the gender role we're assigned and feel we don't belong in the one we desire, we'd feel what you describe. After decades of being that way I'm not sure I know how to be anythings else, but I do note that I'm more likely to engage with others now that I feel better about myself. I just don't expect anything to come of it. ;)

[Tracii G]

Maybe you made the choice to not make deep connections so don't blame others.
You felt different and wouldn't make the effort to try and be a "part" of the crowd. Am I close in this assumption?
I have seen that a lot with people they expect others to make the first move towards a friendship.

[Kayliedaskope]

Yea me too. Maybe we should start a club! Lol

The Square Peg Club? (Hey. It could happen ......)

[patti1569]

Maybe you made the choice to not make deep connections so don't blame others.

Definitely don't blame others. Always felt the issue was inside of me.

- - - Updated - - -


The Square Peg Club? (Hey. It could happen ......)

Love the idea of this!!

[Trione]

Never fully felt like one of the guys, always found it easier to talk with GG.

[Lana Mae]

I felt like I was part of all but center of none! I could talk to anyone on any social/cliche level! (Sort of shy initially around girls but...) Just not comfortable near the center! Hugs Lana Mae

[Samm]

Patti, you pretty much described me growing up. I've always felt I was different, even from a very early age, like elementary school.

[IamWren]

There could even be a theme song!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=sSxppCpC-b8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxppCpC-b8

[Nikki A.]

Until Jr High I felt like an outsider. After that I never felt like an outsider and got along well with people and was a lead person in a few groups. While I was comfortable with people I always did feel different. Since I'm now comfortable with myself, I still feel comfortable with others.

[Teresa]

Patti,
I know that feeling from school days , when they were picking the football team or whatever I always felt the last one left that someone had to pick . I know made up for it by doing mischevious things so I always made them laugh. So when I became a self employed photographer I had to become more extrovert, learn about so many subjects so you could always have a conversation with people to put them at their ease. I'm not sure then how much difference my CDing made, because it was deep in the closet . Since I've been out and dressed more openly and going to my social meetings I feel I have something in common with other people , it really feels so comfortable talking to them , I guess I do belong but then some others are out but aren't comfortable with it so they remain half in the closet not daring to speak unless spoken to .

Apart from CDing it is personality , CDing can be a lonely existence which suits some people.

Tracii,
That's comment is a bit harsh , some people are lovely when you get to know them but find it hard to break the ice , whereas you and I jump in with both feet and don't think how hot or cold the water is !

[Rachael Leigh]

Patti yes for me that was how I felt growing up too, oh sure I had friends along the way but not close ones. Even into adulthood I never had much in common with guys.
And now here I am moving toward transistion and for the first time I’m feeling like I belong
Rachael

[Elizabeth G]

I have always had similar feelings although I find that as I get older I don't feel it as acutely add I once did. In my case I think I have become more self confident over time so perhaps I don't worry as much about fitting in.

[DIANEF]

Some people are just naturally good at mixing with others, some, like me, are not. Having said that I have always preferred female to male company, definitely a candidate for the Square Peg club.

[Tracii G]

To be honest a lot of people probably feel that way so it means you are normal.

[Lana Mae]

It did change for me when I became a nurse! I was also a Cub Scout and Boy Scout leader! Now I can talk with the best of them but I have settled down a lot! LOL Hugs LanaMae

[Alice K]

Patti, I had this 15 page angry rant that was in support of your feelings that disappeared when my battery died. So here is the short paragraph response to your post.

Yes, I feel isolated, self-inflicted because of the time that I grew up in. It persists today.

When you are an anomaly, unacceptable to the world that is what we are dealt.

Hopefully, you will grow up in a better time and can be you.

Before I read your post, I wanted to create my own (in a rage) that said “why can’t I just be me?”

But that is not the way the world is and so we have to suffer that we cannot express ourselves, without extreme repercussions and with the resulting self-inflicted isolation. Because if we were let go we would don flats, nylons, a cute dress, earrings and a nice, but subtle touch of make-up and say “world, this is me”.

But it is not the way it is and we are left feeling isolated (as our closeted world dictates) and alone because we cannot say that is who we are without the world and our lives coming crashing around us.

So we go into the confines of our mind and imagination and there we feel safe, less anyone sees who we really are.

Isolation is the natural alternative to public awareness of our condition.

[Stephanie47]

I think a person has to make some effort to become an insider. I grew up in New York City where there was a pretty diverse population of boys in my age group. Forget the girls. I had no use for them until later in life. There was always something that bonded us together. Early on it was a total preoccupation with baseball, softball, basketball, roller hockey, football. As my group started getting older it seemed to start taking on a more adult mentality. It became "birds of a feather flock together." The flock started dividing into different interests. It also started to reflect some social ills of society which came from following in the foot steps of their parents.

Throughout my life from childhood to young adulthood there was always at least one group I was involved with and many times multiple groups. There was one group I could not muscle my way into. That was the teens of my church. They were to cliquish it was disgusting.

If you feel that you never were able to become a member of a group, then in all probability you really never found a group with the same interests. There is the possibility there was some life experience that turned you off from attempting to be a joiner. For all the social and school interactions I had as a youth and young adult it all went by the wayside due to experiences in the army. Get close to friends and lose them kind of made me become an isolationist. It also gave me insight that too many people intentionally exclude others for no good reason.

Don't blame an interest in wearing women's clothing to be the cause of social isolation. You're not going to find a lot of people who are going to include you in their social sphere, if you're primary interest is cross dressing.

Balance in life, balance in life.

[Jean 103]

WOW, I can't be the only one. I have never had any problems making friends. But what it comes down to is putting in the time. In just a few years I've gone from nobody to one of the popular girls. I'm the only transgender person there, this dive bar I go to. Basically the snowball kinda started there. There are others around, I attend a transgender support group that meets every week like 45 minutes north of me. I haven't been going lately . That and I know of two that have gone before me. Anyone that comes after me will have a much easier time.

[sometimes_miss]

FWIW:
Many of us, as crossdressers, naturally feel that most people would shun us if they knew that. However, all people have secrets, and rather than focus on something about us that they might NOT like, focus on what they would. That gets you into becoming an insider with them. You have to really like people; think about it; when someone likes you, don't you tend to like them at least a little more? Be interested in others. Learn what they like, what they're good at. Remember their names! That's an important one. Try to remember details about them. There are books which help you learn how to do this.
You have to put in the time and the work, to achieve this. Few things in life are easy and simple. But it gets easier the more you do it
.

All my life I have felt like I didn't really fit in anywhere. Not like I was a misfit or an outcast, but just not quite like everyone else.
Well then, welcome from the misfit! i WAS the outcast. Born with a slight facial deformity, none of the kids wanted to play with me because I was 'icky', gross, and a whole bunch of other not so nice words that the meaner kids used. I spent most of my younger years alone, never being part of social groups; lots of other kids considered it bad luck to have me on their athletic teams; they used to flip a coin to see who HAD to take me, that's how bad it got.
But I got over it. As an adult, I got my face fixed. That done, I learned how to initiate and keep conversations going; what to say, what NOT to say, as well as to even feign interest with a very uninteresting person talking to me. All of these social skills can be learned, if you're willing to work at it.


Some people are just naturally good at mixing with others
True; but as above, some of us have had to learn how to do it. It can be done. But you have to put in the time and effort, and many people just thing social skills should come naturally, so they can't be bothered. They just figure that some have the gift of gab, and some don't. Not true; what some people DO have, is the perserverence to do whatever is necessary to improve their situation in life.

I think a person has to make some effort to become an insider.
Even 'insiders' are outsiders when out of their element. Take any midnight talk show host and put him with a bunch of geologists studying some rock formation in the middle of nowhere, and even he would feel a little hesitant to jump into a discussion that he knows nothing about. But I'll bet you anything, that he wouldn't just give up and stand alone. They've learned how to talk to people, and get them to open up. We can, too.

I'll end with this: When young, I didn't know how to approach girls. I would watch the 'naturally charming' guys walk away with the girls even as I was trying to talk to her. How demoralizing! I would go home time and again disappointed, and even more so when I would find them to be dating, knowing that I had my chance, and blew it. Well, we can learn the things that those 'naturally charming' people just do naturally. One woman said that by studying it like a subject to be learned, that i was cheating, that I should just 'be myself'. My answer was, 'So I should just be a loser all my life?'. She didn't have much of an answer for that.
There are plenty of 'how to pick up women' books. But we need to go past that. We need to know how to establish real connections, know how to keep someone as interested in us as we are to them. It's not 'cheating'. Learn the techniques, and it's then part of who you are. It's not faking anything.
I started with two books by Leil Lowndes: 1. 'How to make anyone fall in love with you', will show you what happens as someone successfully gets another's romantic interest, and 2. U.S.S., a book of key behaviors that women do when they are interested in a particular person; it even has pictures for those who need even more specific instruction. Both changed my life. I can walk into a conference, a bar, anywhere, and quickly know if a woman there is interested in me. Then just pick the one that I like best, knowing that I already have a chance with her. And once you've mastered knowing what signs women give off, you'll quickly be able to see what men do as well.
See, a social scientist named Timothy Perper actually studied human interaction. he spent many evenings and weekends in bars, watching how people interact, and which ones stayed interested and left together. his book? 'The biology of love'. But read Leil's books first; his is pretty deep, and not as easy to figure out.
Leil has many books out that will teach you how to succeed in social situations, including business ones. Start with the obvious. And remember, buy USED books. all the info is there, and they're cheaper. If you don't have a used book store near you to browse, go to amazon.
There you all go. Now get out there and learn how to be the person at the party that everyone knows and likes to talk with.

Edit: Once you've read the books and still have a question about anything, you can PM me and I'll try to help.

Life is way too short to always feel like you're on the outside, looking in.

[Maria 60]

Growing up it felt like I fit in but always in denile of my dressing. I remember then and even now I don't want a close friend, I love my privacy and if someone does try to get close I will usally push them away. Don't get me wrong I have friends but I don't want them in my face all the time.
I feel like because I'm a handyman and helped out people after getting to know people I do work for we become friends but not best friends. I'm not a loaner but I love my alone time. Did I make any sense.

[Scarlett1975]

I was and am still very much like that, I have maybe three friends over my life span I would consider close. I know its my personality that's the issue, I just don't feel like I fit in the way I'm "supposed" to. Not blaming my dressing as outwardly that's pretty new to be although inwardly it may have a factor. I sometimes try to make more effort but it just doesn't last I can't pretend to enjoy the same things other guys do, i don't enjoy pubs/clubs and in a group of guys would find it very uncomfortable. I tell my wife often im aware it's me who has an issue not 'all" these other people and that's it's a hard life to choose but it's too late now.

[docrobbysherry]

The fact is, everyone feels that way at one time or another, Patti. There r very few naturally social that feel comfortable everywhere with everyone. Many learn early to make a conscious effort because it's so important to them to belong.

I learned later on in life how to fit in with nearly any group or individual I wanted to. But, that is not my nature and I have to expend a lot of energy to do that. Now that I'm old, I'm not don't do that often.

The secret is: If u want a friend, be a friend. Show interest in what the individual or group values. Agree with what they say. Listen. And, ask questions. It's not that hard. If u want to badly enuff! :thumbsup:

[Janine cd]

I experienced the same feelings when growing up. I think that my desire to be like the girls around me had something to do with it.

[patti1569]

Never fully felt like one of the guys, always found it easier to talk with GG.
Me too! Always felt the same way

[Sami Brown]

I recognized myself as an introvert long before recognizing myself as a crossdresser. I have also been working on becoming more outgoing much longer than I have been working on becoming good at crossdressing. In fact, I find that crossdressing has opened me up, because I have to force myself to be brave among strangers.

[Meghan4now]

Patti, there was a recent thread about what cartoon character you identified with. Mine was Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer.

Welcome to the island of misfit toys! I am not just a nitwit!

And Sue, I so much remember that show. Jessica parker, and of course the principal, Cherri O'Terri! To go back then knowing what I know now.....

[Becky Blue]

Great thread Patti and I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. Although I have always had friends I never feel part of any groups of people. When the 'guys' get together I feel like an outsider even though every person in the group is a friend I just don't feel part of the group. I have often wondered if its connected to Becky, I believe it is.

[SaraLin]

Same here. I don't even feel that I quite fit in here.

Always on the outside looking in,
SaraLin

[Kayliedaskope]

But at least we are more accepting here than most places, SaraLin. You can be yourself here.

[aprilgirl]

When younger, I would've been considered a loner. I had low self esteem, but it had more to do with domestic issues at home, though my secretive crossdressing didn't necessarily help towards that feeling of apartness. I excelled in athletics, but never wanted any part of the whole locker room talk/ hazing mentality that existed. It was noticed by others, but I was never singled out. The friends I made back then are still close friends today. Dating was out of the question until college, where I got away from home and truly found myself comfortable in my own skin.

As an adult, I've always been in outside sales, so other than sales meetings, I've had no colleagues to interact with on a daily basis. I interact well with customers, but for me it's business, and I've drawn the line of being friendly, not familiar. While I've become independent, I'm always open to just being myself and making new friends.

[Ressie]

Well you sure have everyone here taking a look at themselves. I had a psychology teacher once that said everyone has secrets. Fear of those secrets getting out to others contributes to being shy and I think most CDs keep CDing a secret. OTOH, I've seen trans people that aren't shy at all, but not many.

I had a fear of strangers when I was little. I wouldn't talk to anyone except those in my family. I seemed to have pretty close friends growing up, but I would switch friends and people I hung out with every few years. Maybe because there was a fear of people knowing me too well. I've been in contact with many old friends because of facebook and I've never had problems making new friends. Yet I spend most of my time alone. Probably too much!

As far as the desire to belong, that's a human need found in Maslow's hierarchy. In the last few years I've been lucky to have a group of CDs/TGs to connect with once in a while that I can be myself with. But some in the group still feel like outsiders anyway. It takes time for others to feel accepted in group situations I guess.

[Zoeytgtx]

Always shy and withdrawn in guy mode, but let Zoey out and all of a sudden I'm quite happy and extroverted. Strange....it's like throwing a switch.

[GracieRose]

Interesting thread. As a child, I recall that I tended to gravitate to the girls' activities, not having much interest in what the boys were doing. However, my grade schools kept the girls and boys strictly segregated on the playground and I was constantly reminded that it was inappropriate for me to be playing with the girls. I ran into a GG a few years ago. She remembered playing checkers with me during indoor recess in the winter in 3rd or 4th grade. I had no recollection of that but I do recall a paddling for being caught on the girls' section of the playground (Yes, corporal punishment was common in the '60s). I figured that I was an outsider growing up because I was reprimanded for playing with the girls, and not interested in playing with the boys.
I find Ressie's comment that we all have secrets and are afraid of others finding out those secrets interesting. Perhaps there is another dimension that I just didn't realize playing into my hesitancy to form close friendships. Our church has a fathers' group composed of many men that I consider to be really good people. I was asked to join them many times, but they share their personal trials and struggles and offer each other support through these struggles. I refused to join because of my fear that I might get too comfortable with the group and open up to them about my feminine inclinations (secrets). My wife has a big fear of anyone we know finding out about my 'hobby'. I understand and respect her concern. We are a partnership, and it can't be all about me.

[Sarah Doepner]

There is a bit of that feeling in most of us. Case in point would be those folks who are very outgoing and have lots of friends who admit it was a conscious choice to be outgoing to combat their self esteem issues.

I wasn't one of them and my life wasn't improved by moving nearly every year until I was in High School. By that time I'd begun my walk down the CD path and without the Internet to show me I wasn't alone, I stayed within myself. I had a few friends but the closest ones went to a different school. I was picked on and probably could have become a real case for the shrink but something pulled me through. I wish I could tell you what it was, but it's still a mystery.

In college I seemed to mature a little more while everyone else was growing up as well. Many of the social things that held me back in high school no longer mattered. My best friend kind of pushed and pulled me into situations where I had to be more outgoing and I did make friends. I was still a crossdresser but I could keep that in it's own compartment as I filled up the rest of my life with other people and concerns.

When I finally encountered other crossdressers, first on line and then in person, I had managed to become a lot more confident in myself; socially, intellectually, actual skills and had a wide variety of interests. From time to time I still get nervous and worry that I'm the odd one in the group. But then I realize odd is just another way of saying unique and as humans we are nothing if not unique.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Meyers-Briggs notwithstanding, Steffi is an extrovert while I am an introvert.

I'm trying to bring Steffi's extroversion into my boy life.

[Alice Torn]

I have always felt that way too. Odd, different, not quite in a close relationship/ I was a shy loner kid, picked on and singled out much! But went out for baseball in HS, got fairly good at basketball, but never went out for it. Had little confidence, as my parents fought much, and my dad resented me. In my late 20, finally dated, bu my first girlfriend killed herself. Did paly a lot of softball and basketball in my 30's and early 40's bit still did not fit in that well, and was a loner yet. Always had a fetish for certain womens clothes especially hose. Started dressing more age 47, but found it isolates me more than before. My dad was a loner and alcoholic and was anti social.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Patti. While I was growing up I always played to the beat of my own drum.>Orchid...:daydreaming:...

[JudyCDTV]

Well it is a long story it begins with my lack of intimate relationships with women. I was very shy and timid around the opposite
gender/sex. I really didn't know how to interact or start up a conversation or how to approach a woman with anything.
So I always try to stand my ground for I didn't want to get bullied for being shy. I was always the last person to get picked up
for a team in any sports. I was not a nerd just plain off the beaten path. So I really didn't want to get into fights but they
some how found me. I won two of them and lost the last one, the bully had admit to being a sissy. I didn't know what that
meant so I look it up and then my curiosity took over.
But it didn't end there, in college and during my years in higher education, I followed up with women on my brain.
I was chosen a leader of group that in Intro to Business Admin. had to do a group presentation to the class. So I
brainstormed and came up with the topic "Women in Management" it was one of my best projects and got excellent
reception and interests from the classmates and professor. Then I had to take a core requirement for my major of four
classes in group of topics off my major. One of them was all about women, from Sociology of Women to Psychology of
Women to Women's Seminar. In the end I had to do presentation to the rest of the class. So I came up with a play based
on the Dominant /Submissive nature of the marriage relationship I called the Battle of the Sexes. It was a bomb.
The professor didn't like that I lasted the whole year. But then it carried over into the business world where most of
my supervisors were female. Even my supervisor named Judy whom I took my en femme name from at Revlon.
Even today I miss out on the male/female intimate interpersonal relationship thing, so I CD to try to understand what I
am missing.

[Periwinkle]

I was alright when I was a little kid. Sure, I wore girl's clothes a lot, but I made lots of male and female friends. But in middle school, I lost all my male friends, and my female friends followed slowly after. I was left with one close female friend in high school and that's it. These days, I find it easy to be friendly towards people, but actually making friends is difficult.

[Scarlett398]

Hi Patti...I kinda feel the same way most of the time as well but it has nothing to do with my desire to cross dress. Since being a part of this forum, it's really helped me to feel proud to be a cross dresser and just have fun with it and accept it as part of my personality.

The girls here are very supportive and encouraging and I've learned a bunch from them by reading all of their posts and by getting compliments from all of my photos that I post in the Photo Gallery.

I used to feel more part of the crowd when I was coaching baseball. But since that has come to an end after over 25 years of coaching, when I now go to social events, it's always with groups of people who know my wife but don't know much about me. I also live in a town and county where my wife has lived for over 40 years.

Don't feel like the odd girl/guy out because of your cross dressing. Just accept it, Patti, as a proud and normal part of your personality! I bet there are so many more cross dressers out there who are in the closet and will or have never come out and admitted it to others. It took me a long time to do just that but there's only a small circle of folks who know about my cross dressing besides the huge number of girls on here!

Your just fine and don't feel awkward because you love to put on pretty and sexy clothing. It's fun, exciting, sensual, challenging, and ever improving!

Love ya and take care...Your more than normal! We all are! XOXOXO Scarlett