why do they keep changing the name of SRS?

[Nicole Erin]

At one point everyone thought it was just called a "sex change".

But at some point it got called "sex reassignment surgery". OK, this one sounds good, more on why in a second...

But then it got changed to "Gender reassignment surgery". This one is probably worst, more in a sec...

NOW it is called "Gender confirmation (or corrective) surgery". This sounds about at PC and ridiculous as calling a janitor a "sanitation specialist".

But about SRS -
Some TG say "sex is between the legs and gender is between the ears". I think a lot of us could agree to that.
So if you are changing to lower parts of the opposite sex, then yeah, "sex reassignment surgery" sounds polite, correct, factual. Sex is, in this case, another word for genitals.

So when it started getting called "GRS", so lower parts are called "gender" now? I thought "gender" was between the ears, as many other TS have said. But this wasn't good enough. They had to start calling it "gender corrective surgery" or some crap.

Was this to appease some of the overly sensitive TG? If a TG has to have the most PC terms in the world used to describe surgery, how are they going to react in the real world when someone is not so nice about things? Maybe this is one of those cases where a TS just isn't ready for the realities of living as a TG person.

What then will be the next name of SRS when too many TG get their feelings hurt or are offended because they decide that "gender confirmation surgery" is somehow too harsh?

It is getting to the point where some TG take offense at ANYthing gender related. The more this happens, the more annoyed the general public becomes. People eventually quit walking on eggshells.

[Marie-Jo]

Previously they said: I don't change sex, I change my body to be aligned with my gender.
Hence GRS, I think.
GCS is probably professional marketing language for a group of surgeries. There are a number of variants in this field. Such language is often adopted by the patients and related.
Acronyms are invented and re-invented all the time, in most areas. I don't mind as long as they are explained or easily guessable. Sometimes I have to google them. That is a bit irritating.

[LaurenS]

Not everything is about PC. Sometimes it’s an attempt to be more accurate. Besides, there is nothing wrong with a little empathy.

[Vickie_CDTV]

An obsession with political correctness, an obsession with splitting hairs, groupthink and hypersensitivity. Define something once and stick with it.

[Pat]

Actually I was just reading a book that rounds up the latest research (as of 2015 - "recent" in academic terms) and the new phrase-of-choice for the author was GPS - Genital Plastic Surgery. In the "Definitions and Acronyms" section all the other TLA's (three-letter acronyms) you mentioned were listed as "misnomer for GPS." So this ball hasn't stopped bouncing yet.

[Mirya]

When someone who doesn't understand us say that transgender women are not women but men, we as a community like to say that what really defines gender is our brain and our minds. The naysayers insist that since we have male genitals, we're men and not women. So we may bring up the Genderbread Person as an example, explaining that gender is between our ears and sex is between our legs. And that where it really matters, we are women.

I can't help but wonder why so many in our community then flip that around and use terms like GCS and GRS to describe surgery involving that same space between the legs. No wonder the public has such a hard time understanding us. If we as a community can't even be consistent in our use of terminology, how can we expect the public to understand all of this?

Personally I find it very annoying that all of these alternate terms have cropped up. SRS is still the most accurate term in my opinion.

[Nigella]

All the time I was discussing the "procedure" it was nothing more than surgery, and that was the same for those who were discussing it with me. I think sometimes we get too hung up on what to call something.

[grace7777]

I really just wish it would stay SRS. It seems some people in the trans community feel the need to over explain things. Whatever the surgery is called, the one thing I know is that I want it.

Also, HRT is now being called GCHT by some people. It stands for gender conforming hormone treatment. Personally, HRT is fine with me.

[Starling]

Not everything is about PC. Sometimes it’s an attempt to be more accurate. Besides, there is nothing wrong with a little empathy.

I agree with you, LaurenS, although I'm not sure accuracy necessarily demands detail. I think "bottom surgery" sums it all up pretty clearly, including some or all of the various surgical procedures. In the MTF case, from simple orchiectomy to the whole enchilada. And it has a jaunty, no-nonsense, Anglo-Saxon ring to it.

:) Lallie

[Georgette_USA]

As an long time Post TS, we called it SRS and I am fine with that. It is a variety of surgeries, and can be part or all.

I have heard some use a new one called GAS (Gender Affirmation Surgery), But some have joked no one wants to have GAS.

I'm sure we will come up with more. Some just use a generic Bottom Surgery. Kind of works in a generic way for both MtF and FtM.

[LeaP]

Dunno Erin, but the alphabet soup approach sure beats describing, say a penectomy in detail ...

[Nicole Erin]

"Bottom surgery" sounds good. To the point. Gets the point across.


...In the MTF case, from simple orchiectomy to the whole enchilada. And it has a jaunty, no-nonsense, Anglo-Saxon ring to it.

Starling, I hope you know the enjoyment I got from this post. So while I am wondering why they call it "sex" or "gender" etc, you are saying they are now calling it an "Enchilada"? *I* think that has more of a Latin ring to it.

I guess it is just that with political correctness, it never seems to end. Eventually people get tired of trying to keep up. At that point, people get very UN-sympathetic. Kind of like a certain other protest going on right now that people are sick of hearing about.

[LeaP]

"Bottom surgery" sounds good. To the point. Gets the point across.

Only if it’s lipo, a fat graft, or perhaps a sphincterotomy ...

[Aunt Kelly]

With respect, because I don't mean to trivialize the clinical or emotional gravity around these procedures... They're just names, labels.

[LeaP]

With respect ... labels aren’t neutral. “Had SRS yet?” isn’t the same as “Been castrated?”

[Mirya]

They're just names, labels.

Accurate names and labels are important for clear communication and effective education.

[Aunt Kelly]

Different labels which, by convention, mean the same thing are not worth quibbling over. SRS and castration do not, by any but the most ignorant interpretation, mean the same thing. SRS, GRS and GCS all refer to the same set of procedures. The suggestion that more recent names are marketing moves is rather insightful, IMO. What we call it changes nothing substantial about the procedure, it's indications, contraindications, risks or benefits.
As Nicole Erin says, "bottom surgery" gets the point across just as effectively as "vaginoplasty and orchiectomy".

[Starling]

Only if it’s lipo, a fat graft, or perhaps a sphincterotomy ...

You're sort of reaching there, given that "bottom surgery" has been a fairly common nickname for FTM genital surgery--which latter term itself may not be wholly inauspicious.


...you are saying they are now calling it an "Enchilada"?...

No, they are not. The phrase "the whole enchilada" came into widespread use after Richard Nixon's lawyer used it in a phone conversation with presidential assistant John Erlichman to signify the whole, sad truth about Watergate. But there is another Mexican dish whose name is part of a slang term for the organ in question; ring a bell?

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I know people that did all versions of these various surgeries...and they ended up all different ways, including full GRS without transition...and transition with zero bottom surgery or even HRT
orchis and transition and other variations with or without...

all of our dysphorias makes it really difficult sometimes... i know one woman that insists her "penis" was always a deformed vagina... i never thought of it that way, but her dysphoria was related to it..

.... it doesnt matter what they call it except for medical and legal communication...and any lover will find out what you did soon enough regardless of what you call it..

[LeaP]

You're sort of reaching there ...

Nothing like a pun ...


... given that "bottom surgery" has been a fairly common nickname for FTM genital surgery ...

It is the most common term for FTM surgery. Far rarer among MTFs.

“Bottom” surgery sounds a bit too delicate or euphemistic for MTFs, but that’s just me. I’ll say this - a full-on description of genital surgery (preferably video with audio) does wonders in curing some of their fantasies. As do pictures of necrosis, fistulas, etc. The various initialisms rather reduce things to some kind of bureaucratic procedure. As in, I was in one class, but was reassigned to another. Easy-peasy.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

LOL....necrosis and fistulas......

none of those problems on fiction mania.com

[Starling]

As for forced viewing of surgery videos, LeaP, people would live in fear even of a gall bladder removal (er, cholecystectomy). Which, by the way, costs about as much as genital surgery, no matter what you call it.

:) Lallie

[Krisi]

I think most folks call it a "sex change operation".

[LeaP]

No-one said anything about “forced” videos.

[edit] ... Lallie, you mentioned cholecystectomy - which I underwent laparoscopically about 12 years ago. As my wife was the practice administrator for the surgeon, I saw exactly what he billed to the insurance company and what he was paid ... which was about what I spend monthly on groceries. I’m not kidding and I’m not profligate. There were many costs in addition to his, of course, from the anesthesiologist, pharmacy, O.R. and related costs, one night admission, etc., but the total was still modest in a decent hospital in a suburb of a major city on the East coast. Looking up current costs puts it about one third to one half of the going rate for SRS.

I watched videos of the procedure and read the injection fraction test report, the surgery notes, and the lab report with its lovely detailed descriptions of the stones and advanced necrosis (as it happens). Fascinating, actually. On the other hand, while I find SRS videos interesting they are VERY difficult to watch. Gall bladders got nuthin’ on ‘em.

[Starling]

No-one said anything about “forced” videos.

[edit] ...cholecystectomy...the total was still modest in a decent hospital in a suburb of a major city on the East coast. Looking up current costs puts it about one third to one half of the going rate for SRS...

I did not mean "forced" literally, LeaP. As for surgical costs, they vary widely according to the provider and region. Southern California, for instance, is about the most expensive medical market in the US. My laparoscopic cholecystectomy with all the trimmings, including a follow-up endoscopic procedure to dislodge a stone in my bile duct, was billed at quite a pretty penny. According to what I could discover without intensive research, such work can cost as much as two thirds of what genital surgery does in some markets. But my real points were that most surgery is blood-curdling to watch, and genital surgery is not uniquely costly. I gather FFS is what really hurts, both physically and financially; but that is the wages of cosmetic surgery.

As far as our sensitivities being especially assaulted by seeing testicles pulled from the scrotum and a penis turned inside out, I don't cherish those items anyway, so to me it's like a walk in the park, compared to watching a presidential press conference.


I think most folks call it a "sex change operation".

Have you been reading this thread?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Sex change operation..heh
Nobody in this forum cares Lallie what that person says but they keep talking anyway...

reality check...LOL

[LeaP]

...genital surgery is not uniquely costly.

100% true. Of course SRS is almost always out of pocket ...

[AllieSF]

Hell, my recent endoscopy with associated dilation of the esophagus sphincter was billed at one sky high level and paid at a rock bottom final cost and was still way too expensive! The hospital alone for a short stay room was billed at over $34,000 and paid out to them by the insurance company at about $1,300+. They have their rack rates and then their accepted payment amounts. No wonder no one understands what the true medical costs are. The big guys, hospitals, insurance companies, etc. like it that way.

[LeaP]

There’s mountains of data available on health care payment rates. While you can’t always get at negotiated contract rates, there are published ranges typical for each state/area. A lot of insurance companies have price tools (for their subscribers). Medicare data are published. Hospital financials are usually available. Pharmacy prices are readily available, whether out of pocket or covered by insurance.

COST (and profit/loss, cash flow, and other metrics) - as opposed to patient/consumer pricing - is far more difficult as anyone remotely familiar with accounting and finance will attest. What’s the true cost of a procedure in a hospital where, for argument’s sake, there is only patient during the fiscal year? Is the real cost of a procedure more when done by a specialist? Does the availability of generic drugs drive the prices and cost structure of branded drugs up or down and why? What’s a reasonable cost allocation approach for a public clinic? There are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of such potential considerations ... these are some of the simplest.

Personally, I think the simplest approach is to look at: 1) the income structures in the health care industry, 2) capital investment vs infrastructure health, 3) demand for critical care and the most basic preventive care as the most important basic statistics, and 4) ownership and wealth statistics for health care corporations. My take on those is that salaries are highly-skewed, investment and infrastucture health are in good shape (in the US), critical care is well-covered (if poorly from a process standpoint, again in the US), and that ownership is HIGHLY concentrated in the control of money managers, whose market needs drives the capital structure of the industry. I would draw subjective conclusions from there, but I’ll keep those to myself.

SRS is, in almost every respect you can think of, an anomaly in an otherwise highly-structured, if hugely-complex industry - whatever you choose to call it.

Aunt Kelly - IMNSHO, almost every statement in your response is incorrect. Start with the easiest, that of castration. An orichiectomy is almost universally acceptable as “sex change surgery” (or whatever other terms the particular statute uses) in the states that require surgery documentation for name and gender changes.

[SkyOfQuakertown]

I do feel that way, and I do agree with you 101% on your "I am not a Woman; I don't want to be a Woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a Woman. - I am not a Man; I don't want to be a Man; I don't want to be mistaken for a Man. - I am a TRANSGENDER Human Being. And in fact for all it's worth, me too, I'm still trying to figure out what "That" actually means to my life." Thank you for the inspirational sharing!

[Rianna Humble]

I think that this thread has been taken as far off course as is possible. Time to close it