Can you survive as a MIAD (man in a dress) after being passable?

[ClosetED]

My wife had me print out divorce papers and she signed them. I collected the financial data needed. So definitely on the brink of divorce. yet I slept in basement one night alone and the next she came down and asked me to return to our bedroom to sleep. The night before she went to dance class alone, then the next she asked me to join her. She had me print out pictures of Ellen and taped them over bedroom to remind her of why she wanted to go ahead with divorce. Now she is proposing she MAY be OK with me dressing, but only if I keep facial hair, so instead of being so pretty, I will be a MIAD. I know several here are fine with that. But after doing so well with makeup and being overjoyed at the results, can I be satisfied with clothes and shoes and wig? So I ask this vast collection of experiences - has anyone tried this step back and did it last?
I want to be honest with her - I did tell her that experience says I can never give up the desire to dress, and the action of dressing is very hard to stop.
Thanks for any input,
Ellen

[Joni T]

It depends on whether you want a wife or a divorce. I'd go with the first choice (I've had choice 2 twice).
Jon

[ChubbyLeahCD]

Agree with Joni. I love being Leah but if I ever feel it’s risky to come out to my wife, I’ll stay closeted forever. My wife and family are my world

[Kayliedaskope]

Go with the second choice - you will have your freedom to dress as you please.

[Teresa]

ClosetED,
I'm on the brink of a separation , and I'm half expecting this to happen when we finally move into our new homes. No I personally wouldn't step back , I'm hoping to dress full time there's no way I would step back and accept MIAD, that is the current situation at home for me at the moment and I want to escape it, even though my wife has never seen me dressed . For me I'm done with compromises that get you no where .
We are going to remain friends and will still take holidays together but she knows the score when I'm in my own home .

[Joni T]

You can't stay closeted forEVER. Sooner or later she'll find out--you'll inadvertently or absent mindedly leave something out or you won't get ALL of the makeup off and she'll see it. You'll be busted. There's no better time than right NOW to come clean to your lady. You can thank or curse me later.
Jon

[Rachael Leigh]

Ellen when my wife and I separated I thought to myself this was my chance could I stop and hold back this part of me and
be a man for my wife. Well after just a week I knew the answer, this was me a trans women and I could not go back as
I do believe it would harm me mentally. It's difficult yes my marriage lasted 35 years but I no longer could hide myself
I hope you can figure out what's best for you
Rachael

[Vickie_CDTV]

I'd focus on saving your marriage, especially if you have children.

[Majella St Gerard]

I wouldn't go back to being a man in a dress, she sounds controlling, manipulating and cruel, do you want to live under her rules and threats or do you want to be you? only you can decide.

p.s
marriage is overrated anyway

[Joni T]

I don't see cruel or manipulating. I sense a real woman who wants the MAN she married back in her life.
Jon

[Rayleen]

I would not leave my wife, I go for #1, but if I became single again,it would not be a MIAD no more. good luck Ellen .

[Micki_Finn]

I don't see cruel or manipulating. I sense a real woman who wants the MAN she married back in her life.
Jon

And is struggling with the myriad of emotions caused by finding out her husband is a crossdresser.

[nikkim83]

Depends on your priorities.

Marriage is hard to walk away from.
Being yourself is harder to walk away from.

[paulinescotlandcd]

I think to be quite honest it is time to call it a day and walk away.

[Charlotte7]

There's so much to decide here. But let's start with the easy one. Dressing will never stop, that has to be the given, I know that I could never stop, I'm sure that most of us here could never stop. So, you will dress. You have, in the past dressed fully and you've loved the result. That is you, an important part of you. But now we come to the nub, the crux. You have to decide between two seemingly terrible things, be as you feel you are or live in what you feel are reduced circumstances. All I can do is wish you the best and offer as an example my circumstances. I have a loving SO. I can dress as often as I want. I have a complete wardrobe that is not hidden away. But, there are limits and boundaries. There are steps that I know that I can not consider. And, yes at the end of the day I am content with that. I have the dressing at will and the love of the woman I love. So, my advice, if advice it is, is think long and deeply before you give either of them up. And when you do, commit yourself to whichever path you choose. In my case I'd rather have the glass half full and have the company of my best friend.

[Becky Blue]

Not in your situation and speaking only in my own experience but this I do know. Since going out and dressed properly in the past. I can no longer happily throw on a dress over panties and a bra and be happy.. in fact its more frustrating knowing how I can feel and look and not being able to get there.

Good luck with whatever choice you make.. not an easy one

[NicoleScott]

I couldn't agree to MIAD. I love everything - wig, makeup, high heels, painted fake nails, fake eyelashes, jewelry, etc. I could not agree to terms (MIAD) I know I could not keep.

[BettyMorgan]

I'm not going to make this statement directly at Ellen but to the general population, instead.

If you can't be honest with your wife then who can you be honest with? She is the one you should be the most intimate and vulnerable with. If one has to hide crossdressing (for the rest of one's life) and pretend to be the person she wants then one or both will likely be unhappy in the long term. Being in the closet is stressful and it takes a lot of energy. One will eventually realize you are in a false relationship because you won't be able to be who you are.

I'm _not_ saying an attempt shouldn't be made to salvage the marriage. Anyone in this situation would chose marriage over clothing but I know for me it's not simply a fetish. I'm sure many of us have tried to purge and/or go cold turkey on many occasions (I include myself in this group). But my success rate was zero. I wish you the best.

[IamWren]

I don't see cruel or manipulating. I sense a real woman who wants the MAN she married back in her life.
Jon
I completely agree with Joni’ statement. Not knowing anything about how she said, requested or otherwise had you print the divorce docs, I can only assume it was matter of factly. I can’t imagine a scenario where a wife of any significant amount of time, who loved her husband, would make the decision to go through with divorce lightly and without any remorse. She is probably crushed and suffering under the weight of the decision.


...: But now we come to the nub, the crux. You have to decide between two seemingly terrible things, be as you feel you are or live in what you feel are reduced circumstances. One thing you didn’t mention is if you go out, does she see you dressed on a regular basis, did she recently find out, are you in a DADT situation?

The reason I ask is because I wonder if there is some sort of compromise that could be arranged. Certainly there is some middle ground that is palatable.

As for could I be a MIAD?... I recently dressed to the nines and met some of my gurls from the H-town area at the monthly Girls’ Night Out. I posted on this board and in the non-binary board my thoughts.

It was amazing! And if I never dressed again I would be totally happy with that arrangement. That one night was so amazing I think it has filled my cup for the rest of my life. I would love to do it again but I don’t feel a compelling urge to do it. Of course that is probably because I do some things that keep my mild dysphoria/pink fog at bay.

Ellen, I hope there is some arrangement you and your wife can come to that make you both happy.

[ellbee]

I don't view MIAD as a "step back," in the least. :strugglin


I used to get all dolled up and head out all the time, back in the day. I looked pretty good, if I say so myself -- friends & strangers, alike, thought so, as well.

But these days? I'm all set with that. I've had "my fill," I guess?


I present as a guy nowadays... albeit in head-to-toe women's clothing, sometimes. :D

No make-up, no fake boobs, no wig, no femme voice. None of that.

And not only do I view it as somewhat challenging (in a good way), but I also look at it as a form of progress -- definitely not a step back, IMO.

I've probably never been happier & at-ease with all this, really, when I stop & think about it.


Though here's the difference: This came naturally, through my own accord.

Nobody "had me" do it.



I won't necessarily comment on your wife's behavior.

But I will say this: Why is it that she has such an issue with it -- yet countless other wives & GF's *don't*? :thinking:

[Amy Lynn3]

WOW, Ed !!!! What a heck of a place to be in. First let me say I am divorced. I lived with a woman I loved from the start, but she tried to control me in every aspect of my life. Like others have said, I had to choose between her and leading my own life. Talks between us and professionals did no good what so ever. For me it got to a point the stress from her demanding I walk a narrow line sent me seeking medical help.

After that started I had to do something, so I left her. My world did not end, in actuality my life is better now apart from her, than it ever was with her.

You are my friend and allow me to suggest this. I did this and it did not work, for me, but I think it is worth a try in your case. Put the ball back in her court, so to speak and let her choose to either allow you to dress as you wish or divorce. I think you know deep down you can never go back to the old you, so let her choose between a good loving husband, who dresses femme at times or living all alone.

The very best to you my friend.

[Nikki.]

My $0.02 is you need to be brutally honest with yourself where you're at on the spectrum. If you're a CD who enjoys crossdressing, with makeup and a wig being icing on your girl time cake, it's probably liveable. If you're some flavor of trans it's an indentity issue for you, and pushing the full presentation back in the closet will be harder and cause anxiety and depression.

Perhaps she's not wired to be flexible regarding her companion's gender and/or gender presentation. Good luck.

[Jaymees22]

I never had facial hair so I really don't think I could do the MIAD thing and be happy. Everyone's situation is different but more than dressing I want to remain married. There might be some compromise you could reach. Have you tried counseling as a couple with a marriage or gender therapist?

[suzanne]

If shes has moved away from "i want a divorce" to "I'm ok with a MIAD", you should seriously consider meeting her there on her terms. She has made a massive move to accommodate your tastes and a reciprocal compromise is definitely called for. Your discomfort at forgoing wig and makeup probably matches her discomfort at seeing you in a dress, but she's willing to suck it up. A good political solution is one where all parties are equally UNhappy and can live with it.

Secondly, if you meet her compromise now, and respect it by not pushing for more, you may find that she will relax further and you might be able to dress as you now prefer. On the other hand, you may find that you become comfortable as a MIAD, because it meets with greater acceptance in your home and marriage. But you absolutely must abide by her comfort level and not try to ask for more.

How valuable is it for you to be married to this woman? At one time, it was the most important thing in your world. I think she's opened the door to return to that state. Good luck.

[SaraLin]

Now she is proposing she MAY be OK with me dressing, but only if I keep facial hair, so instead of being so pretty, I will be a MIAD. I know several here are fine with that. But after doing so well with makeup and being overjoyed at the results, can I be satisfied with clothes and shoes and wig? So I ask this vast collection of experiences - has anyone tried this step back and did it last?
Ellen

Well Ellen, it sounds like you've got some deciding to do here and none of us can tell you what is best for you. That's something that YOU will have to decide.
How much to you love her?

Can You compromise? Will she really agree to it?I did, and I love her enough to live half in my choice, half in hers. I chafe against it at times, but it works for me.
Only time will tell. Good luck.

[Laura912]

So do the experiment. Go along with her for now and see how both of you do. You lose nothing except a little time and may gain something wonderful. And don’t make any major decisions after a week of night shifts.

[Sarasometimes]

If therapy is an option (your can afford it), then that is my suggestion. You need to see a good gender therapist, who knows the gender spectrum and along with that I think a dry run may help too, but my concern there is we can all do many things we hate for short periods of time. The benefits I see of a therapist, is they can give advice without emotion and wade through your emotions with you. if your wife is willing, having her attend sessions at some point would be very helpful. I don't think divorce should happen without trying this step, unless it isn't possible.
It sounds like your wife would like to save her marriage and I don't believe your wife is being vindictive or controlling, I think she views her offer as fair.

Best advice here was, only you can make this choice, and also only you know if a trial run as a MIAD will answer your questions.

[Krisi]

Asking for relationship advice, especially something involving the breakup of a family from strangers on the Internet is a bad idea. It's even worse to ask a bunch of crossdressers if you should stay married or crossdress.

This is something you need to figure out for yourself. Your wife seems to be reaching out to you. Think about that.

[Sherrii]

Only you can answer your question. It depends on how you feel about your wife and how much you would miss having her in your life if she were to leave. And how strong you feel the need to pass. Do you really need to go out passing, or could you be happy dressing at home and underdressing out? You have to make the decision as only you know what you want and need. Sherrii

[Jessica S]

If therapy is an option (your can afford it), then that is my suggestion. You need to see a good gender therapist, who knows the gender spectrum and along with that I think a dry run may help too, but my concern there is we can all do many things we hate for short periods of time. The benefits I see of a therapist, is they can give advice without emotion and wade through your emotions with you. if your wife is willing, having her attend sessions at some point would be very helpful. I don't think divorce should happen without trying this step, unless it isn't possible.
It sounds like your wife would like to save her marriage and I don't believe your wife is being vindictive or controlling, I think she views her offer as fair.

Best advice here was, only you can make this choice, and also only you know if a trial run as a MIAD will answer your questions.


Asking for relationship advice, especially something involving the breakup of a family from strangers on the Internet is a bad idea. It's even worse to ask a bunch of crossdressers if you should stay married or crossdress.

This is something you need to figure out for yourself. Your wife seems to be reaching out to you. Think about that.


If shes has moved away from "i want a divorce" to "I'm ok with a MIAD", you should seriously consider meeting her there on her terms. She has made a massive move to accommodate your tastes and a reciprocal compromise is definitely called for. Your discomfort at forgoing wig and makeup probably matches her discomfort at seeing you in a dress, but she's willing to suck it up. A good political solution is one where all parties are equally UNhappy and can live with it.

Secondly, if you meet her compromise now, and respect it by not pushing for more, you may find that she will relax further and you might be able to dress as you now prefer. On the other hand, you may find that you become comfortable as a MIAD, because it meets with greater acceptance in your home and marriage. But you absolutely must abide by her comfort level and not try to ask for more.

How valuable is it for you to be married to this woman? At one time, it was the most important thing in your world. I think she's opened the door to return to that state. Good luck.


Well Ellen, it sounds like you've got some deciding to do here and none of us can tell you what is best for you. That's something that YOU will have to decide.
How much to you love her?

Can You compromise? Will she really agree to it?I did, and I love her enough to live half in my choice, half in hers. I chafe against it at times, but it works for me.
Only time will tell. Good luck.


I have to agree with the quotes I have included. It easy to give life changing advise when you don't have to deal with the fall out.

[NicoleScott]

How much to you love her?


You can't measure how much you love someone by how much of your drive to crossdress you're willing to suck up.

But if it's a valid question, so is this one: how much does she love her husband?

Pursue a middle ground that (importantly) both can live with, if one exists.

[patti1569]

My first wife was very much the same way. Understanding one day and intolerant the next. She insisted on many restrictions to my dressing and I did try to follow them for many years. In the end, it was never enough for her and she left me anyway. I did step back to the MAID phase several times to make her happy, but it didn't. It only served to make me miserable.

[Meghan4now]

Ellen,

My heart goes out to you, really. However from what you've written lately, I am unfortunately skeptical. Maybe her "change of heart" isn't really sincere. In the five stages of death, bargaining is one of them. Divorce is a death like experience. It may be just a temporary reaction. She may even think she means it. But down the road, nothing has really changed.

I am a believer in trying to save a marriage, but true change and compromise need to occur. Otherwise you are just kicking the can down the road. And living in misery the entire time.

I personally don't think that I could make that commitment. I think that I would backslide. Plus I think the ask is very controlling and say very loudly, "I don't trust you, so here is a seal I can monitor"

[SamanthaToday]

Hi

Im not going to give an opinion on Stay or Go, there have been more than enough great opinions supporting both sides.

Im stuck on the facial hair request from your wife.

She will let you dress up but with facial hair?

Its almost like She read the post on the board about Men wearing female clothes is no different than Women wearing Mens clothes.

In that She is testing the argument and seeing if that's what you are really about, or is it more than that, that you do need all the other things that go with it.

I could see if She wanted you to not wear makeup , but keep facial hair is a strange request to me.

[Tracii G]

Can't you see she is making you decide on which choices she says you can have? How is that even acceptable?
I really detest women like this.
Don't take the bait or settle for anything less than what is going to make YOU happy.
It seems like she sees you as a mangina type man and doesn't respect you.
I know it may sound odd coming from a TG gay male person that identifies internally as a woman but there is a reason I feel that way.
If I were married to a man and we decided to split up over something I would want him to be a man about it and not give in to my demands without a fight or at least offer a few options. I would probably get all fuzzy/excited watching him being a real man and decide the whatever it was were were splitting up over wasn't all that important LOL.
I'm sorry I like a man to be a man.

[SamanthaToday]

Ellen,

The Facial hair was weird to me, now that Tracii mentions control I looked back at the original post.

Your wife had you print out the divorce papers,(If I was in a rush to divorce I would print them myself).

Then She has you print out pics of yourself so She can hang that up, Why you would take part in your own abuse I don't know.

I think She hoped you would capitulate, but you didn't. So now its any way She can to control you as Tracii said.

[ClosetED]

I have been here almost 5 years, but many may not be familiar with my situation- wife has known for 26 or the 28 years. She went along with bedtime hose/heels a few times a year for 19 of the years and I wanted a bit more, but never really got it. But it was enough and I thought I could never be pretty without magic, so why bother. 7 years ago, she caught me after having taken off hose I put on without her. So she said no more. I lasted 18 months before I told her I couldn't hold out any longer. She then said "Do whatever you want-I just don't want to see it" - the usual DADT. So I explored and slowly made it into pink fog and was amazed at the results. She refused to learn about CDing except the wife hater's website. So I did what she asked - snuck around behind her back to get things and dress and try makeup when she would not see, as she demanded. We did several years of therapy to work on learning and compromise. She was told it would not go away. She did say cruel things, both being mean and also being supportive, then suddenly returning to unaccepting DADT, all with no warning or reason that I was told. (She was trying to accept it, but couldn't, even seeing me dressed but no makeup. She even reached point of asking to see pictures of me fully madeup. She doubted what I had written about how I see drab me and Ellen - that Ellen was pretty enough in my mind to be in clothes catalog. The pictures shocked her - and she admitted I was right. And she sees the joy. But that made it worse for her.
I do get it - this is not normal and a hetero woman may feel being forced into lesbian relationship even if we want to be girlfriends when dressed and husbands when in drab. I can split the roles, but she can't.
So the divorce papers are printed and she signed them. I did the financial form. I slept in basement, but then I get mixed messages. She asked me to slept in our bed. We went to dance class. She now thinks she MIGHT be able to tolerate a man in a dress-just no shaving.

I wasn't asking the group to help me decide to divorce or not - just for experiences they have had or heard of of stepping back from full makeup to leaving on beard. Patti1569 did give her experiences and while she was able to tolerate it, the wife could not. That is beyond our control, but it shows it can be done and still satisfy. She may still not tolerate it, but I can try to do my part.

She went away for 2 days and I had a few hours to try dressing without shaving and can post them later.
Hugs, Ellen

[Dana44]

I don't think you could be a maid you look too good and if she wants to leave you. Let her. I have had enough women in my life and I finally found one that accepts me and she is my soul mate. It took me 62 years to find her. So if she is unaccepting. then then you will have a great life without her.

[Nikki.]

You're right, most of us didn't answer the question you asked. I absolutely detest the thought of being a miad for myself. I occasionally try stuff on to check fit and i can barely look in the mirror without makeup and hair. I would rather be miserable and suffer a hopefully short remaining life than be a miad. i know that sounds hyperbolic but it's true, for me. I sincerely hope that's not the case for you. there seems to be plenty on this site that are content with being miades. may you find peace in whatever you decide.

[Tracii G]

Where did she go for 2 days? A girl friends house ?
If so that sounds fishy sorry.
She wants pics of you dressed for what reason? She wants them to use againsn't you can't you see that?
She is running the show and you are letting her why?
You say she said she might be able to tolerate it??? WTH does that mean?
You know from past experiences she won't so what makes you think she will now?
She is asking you to give her all the ammunition to set you up in a court of law.
I am shocked you can't see what she is doing.
We don't know each other personally and maybe a person that has been thru that twice I can give you something to think about.
Don't assist her in screwing you over.

[docrobbysherry]

I don't see what any of us regressing in our looks successfully or not would have to do with u, Ellen!?

U need to ask yourself that question. And, if u don't know the answer try it. Then, you'll know for sure! One way or the other------:straightface:

[ClosetED]

She went to NYC to see lighted up pumpkins. I did not want to lose 2 days vacation and makeup work and chores for that.
She wants the pics to remind her of why she wants to divorce me - when she sees me in drab, it is easier to forget. And Cding is not illegal nor is it an allowed reason for fault divorce, unless you claim it is cruel and unusual punishment, but that would be hard sell to a judge. "Yes, he bought me everything I could desire, and he would not show me this unless I asked, but knowing he was doing it is cruel to me." Kids are all adults, so no issue there.If she outed me to them, they would be angrier with her for the cruel act.

Sherri - just like many ask if it is possible to stop CDing, I wondered if it was possible to back off from being pretty to MIAD. Imagine if some new love of your life said you can dress, but no mask or femsuit.

Hugs, Ellen

[Tracii G]

So at this point in time you believe what she is telling you?
I'm not buying the excuse she wants the pics to remind her of why that sounds like a bunch of hooey.
Women will say just about anything hoping you will buy it even if it sounds silly.They plan everything to the T and make up a plan A and B if one doesn't work.
2 days to go see pumpkins OK with who did she take in the pumpkins with?
Divorces take time and I think you have to be legally separated first at least 6 months as in living in different places.
The final court hearing may be up to 6 months after that because the court has to put you on a schedule and fit you in when they can.
Have you been divorced before? If not they are a little more complicated than you think.

[Teresa]

Ellen,
If some of us are going through a similar thing sharing stories has to help. Listen to Tracii she has had this situation twice , I'm just going through it ,the examples in your last reply are all familiar , she is playing games with you, I'm afraid if you don't at least separate they are going to get worse , she's not going to let it go .

If I were you I would tell the kids before she poisons them , my kids and their married partners know the situation and they are OK about it .The point is are you happy with your current situation with your CDing , stepping backwards is going to be impossible and what for ,? to please someone else but mentally torture yourself !

[SaraLin]

I wasn't asking the group to help me decide to divorce or not - just for experiences they have had or heard of of stepping back from full makeup to leaving on beard.

Sorry Ellen, my last response was a bit rushed, and short because of it. I'll try for a bit more here...

Over the years, I have been in various relationships with varying levels of gender issues mixed in. I've been accepted, rejected, and even encouraged in the past, but for (mostly) other reasons, those relationships didn't work out anyway.

I'm now fifteen years into a loving and happy marriage to a lady who has very definite "THIS FAR, AND NO FURTHER" limits. I can wear nighties to bed and I wear panties 24/7. I have a few outfits in my closet, but rarely get to wear them since she doesn't want to see me in them. I don't sport a beard, but I also haven't worn my wig or put on makeup in years (outside of a little halloween costuming). This means that I don't really like what I see in the mirror, but even back when I was getting fully made up, I was still seeing a MIAD (which for me was not at all what I wanted.)
Of course I want do do more, but in my case I find that I don't need to.

the difference between want and need could serve a whole 'nother thread, so I'll not go there right now.

I'd rather never wear pants again. SHE'd rather I never wore anything feminine again. We've met in the middle and we're OK with it. We both love each other enough to consider the other's feelings and bend a little. It works for us - what will work for you, only the two of you can say.

[Meghan4now]

Ellen,

I want to apologize if my message was too full of despair. Maybe you can salvage your marriage, maybe not. It is really hard, so many doubts, such difficult compromises. I too am on that ragged edge. My wife hasn't printed papers yet, but just last night we had a serious confrontation, with the biggest portion being the dressing.

To your question though, I feel like MID (yuck I hate that term) can't work for me, at least with the face. If I am lucky enough to hang on to Meghan at all, I guess body hair may have to come back, but when I dress, I really want that finished image and facial hair ruins it for me.

Good luck with everything. If divorce is inevitable, then I wish you a speedy healing time and the least amount of pain as possible.

[rachael.davis]

Fairly simple - I hit transition or die, and decided to transition, so I'm in a different boat.

Ellen - she is willing to allow you to dress, but only if you grow a beard. Simple question to you - why are you considering disfiguring yourself to please someone who wants out of your marriage? It's kind of my opinion that you need to look very carefully before crossing a line in gender identity because you're not going to want to backtrack.

[ClosetED]

Posted pics in Picture Gallery, under Ellen - the Man in a Dress look
Hugs, Ellen

[rachael.davis]

One more (horrifying) thought - she wants a picture of you dressed, made up, and with facial hair? If she has divorce papers prepared I assume she has retained a lawyer - any chance the dirty tricks department in their matrimonial area suggested that this would be a nice lever in alimony/communal property discussions.

[IamWren]

I saw your photos in the gallery and like Sherlyn said there, I just don't get it.
I mean, I know there are women out there who like a guy with a really hairy chest. And I know there are women who find men with beards really attractive. I still don't get it though. It's really gross to me and my wife thinks so, too. I think if she could find a giant laser, she would personally pull the trigger on super-size laser gun to blast all the hair off my body.

I like my stubble now and again. I think it looks cool. She hates it.

Did you used to wear facial hair in the past? Does she normally like it on you or finds men with facial hair attractive or is it a passive aggressive way of trying to get you to not be able to find joy in dressing?

[ClosetED]

One more (horrifying) thought - she wants a picture of you dressed, made up, and with facial hair? If she has divorce papers prepared I assume she has retained a lawyer - any chance the dirty tricks department in their matrimonial area suggested that this would be a nice lever in alimony/communal property discussions.

No, she wanted the pictures i am proud of - my prettiest, sexy, sweet.
She said she paid a lawyer $500 dollars 2 years ago, but nothing came of it. It is not illegal to CD and in this state, illegal to discriminate based on TG. You can threaten to post and share with everyone I know, but most would not believe it or if they found it was true, it is true. They would find her actions probably more disgusting than mine. And this state is not 50/50, it is based on fairness. I earned 95% of the income when she has the education to earn significant and I never asked her to not work, so asset allocation might be up to the judge.

[Jenny22]

Suggestions abound, so here's mine .... separate for 6 months, and try to not see each other during that time. Tell your adult children of your CDing and what you've both been through and why. If there is a divorce, they are likely to find out anyway.
The separation will give each of you time to think out things without the others input (keep a journal of all thoughts), and each of you will then find out whether or not the marriage has a chance to succeed with possibly some type of DADT agreement, possibly including some Ellen time each week.
The song,"When there's love at home," suggests that love can work. If you truly love each other, the marriage can be saved.

[Alice B]

A very tough question to answer. I can only speak for what I would do. If your wife is totally against your dressing and wants a divorce I would go that way because you will never be able to totally stop. If she seems to be more accepting thhan stick it out and see where the road goes. It is common for wifes getting a divorce or even shortly afterward to want to get together, but that seldom lasts. I speak from experience.

[Tracii G]

You are being being played it looks like but as you say if she tells she tells and you are fine with that.
So why then don't you do the divorce and come out as TG to the world?
Why stay with her and be ridden like a rented mule and told what you can and cannot do?
I understand you may still love her but how can you love someone that emotionally drains you and doesn't allow you to be you or respect you as a person?
In both my cases I was the last to know what all my wife was doing and saying behind my back.
I was trying to be the nice guy and be understanding but all I got was laughed at for being a fool while my wife was banging all my friends.
You can remain with her if you want but you are on your own just remember you had the choice to be free.

[lingerieLiz]

None of us can give you an answer as to what you should do. When I was young, passed, liked getting all dolled up my answer would have been different than today. Ninety percent of my clothes are women's. I wear lingerie full time. On the other hand I don't try to fool anyone. BUT, I don't wear dresses anymore. I wear the same clothes my wife and the other women in our age group do. I would stay married, but then I no longer need to pass.

[Sherlyn]

I agree with Tracii ...makes no sense with the picture thing
Is anyone else aware of your crossdressing..?

[Lilly Diadem]

You have to do what is best for you as anything less will not be being true to yourself and will result in misery and resentment.

Pictures and legal action sounds like thinly veiled manipulation and blackmail from anoutsider perspective.

Good luck with however you choose to proceed.

[ClosetED]

I agree with Tracii ...makes no sense with the picture thing
Is anyone else aware of your crossdressing..?

Just Forum people and those from the local support group, the Tiffany Club, from those I shared with. She has made claims to have told several people, yet when I saw some of them they made no hint about it and later she told me she did not tell them. Possibly hoping I would out myself in the belief they already knew. I don't have the need to come out to the world as TG-I don't have a desire to go out and risk any confrontation, which is something I usually avoid, to my detriment. I know more and more we hear stories where society cares a lot less than we imagine. I think I would try with supportive people with me, such as the support group or if wife ever did support me like she claimed she would.
I have no suspicions she is having sex with other men, but she has told me other men like her, so please free her to seek these real men.

Since her return from NY, she was happy I did not shave and did not ask if I dressed. That night we were intimate. She has not mentioned divorce or status of application. She did not find the marriage certificate needed which she earlier said she would locate and we both know where it is kept. Bt she has not suggested I do any dressing, but also did not say no or any consequences if I do. The pictures are still in the closed closet. If it desensitizes her, great. If it inflames her disgust, so be it. It is the truth. She did realize I am in love with myself, as I have all these pictures and show such joy. What we here call AGP. But I also remind her there are pictures of male me on a thumb drive, posing in male bedroom costumes, with great smiles as well. Yes, I like how I can be handsome and pretty at different times and don't feel society (including her) has the right to limit me in my own home.

My question for this thread was just to collect personal experiences with those who got to the point of looking realistic (aka passing, even if not out in public) and then trying to back away due to ultimatum, rather than by choice of having accomplished all they wanted.

Hugs, Ellen

[Taylor186]

My wife tolerates my CDing but doesn't encourage it. Over the years we have developed a few ground rules that work for us. I shave my face and legs and trim my arms year round but only shave my chest during the summer months. Being retired I might wait a day or two or three between face shaves but no more than that and I'll always shave before we go out to dinner or visit friends or when I crossdress with makeup. I crossdress with makeup no more than once a month. If my wife liked the scruffy look (she doesn't and hates beards) she could have it most days of the week but I present as clean shaved--male or en femme--to the public. So I win one (no facial hair) and lose one (hairy chest for 6-7 months), which is a compromise I'm ok with. I have passed before, surprisingly to me, but only after dark from a distance.

[ClosetED]

So still no support of dressing despite keeping the facial hair. She got herself upset when she wanted pantyhose to wear for work and her 4 pair were all dirty. She saw my dozens of hose and that mad her sad. I did offer them to her, even ones still in the package, but no. Last week she complained about her bra, needing a push-up bra. I offered mine-I usually get 38B and hers may be 36B, but no dice. Today she complained about that there seems to be more hair on my hand and fingers than before, meaning I must have been reducing that in the past and that is bad at the current time.
Hugs, Ellen

[Kayliedaskope]

Just me, but it appears like she's finding excuses to be miserable now, and using you as the scapegoat because of your "hobby." This does not sound like it is going to turn out well . ....

[Jamie390]

You have to figure what is right for you. For me, it's #1. My wife is DADT all the way and does not want to see me dressed at all. However, I am madly in love with her would want to loose her for anything.

[Tina Davis]

Ellen, I have to agree with Kaylie that your wife is just looking for reasons to complain about your CD activity. More hair on your hands? So what. If she doesn't have a bra or hose, offer to buy her what she needs, but don't offer any of your things. There's a storm coming, you need to be ready for it. Sending you big hugs :hugs:, Tina