Gender Radar

[sarah_hillcrest]

I'm sure this is a topic that comes up a lot, but been thinking about it this morning. So I have a long drive to work and I see lots of people on the highways and as I pass through a few towns. I've noticed that I can correctly detect a person's gender from just the back of their head, but also know instantly from barely seeing their face.

Obviously from the back of the head it's hair, but I've seen guys with long hair and I still know its guys. I think that's a combination of head shape and size, height in the car, but mostly the difference between male and female hair.

I've been trying to decide what it is from the front that makes it so obvious. Do you think there is one giveaway feature or is it just a combination of different features that your unconscious brain uses for a near instant gender identification?

[Pat]

Gender recognition is generally what's known as a "fuzzy logic" exercise. Your use your senses to gather evidence and weight the evidence as "more female" or "more male" and in the end you come up with an overall score that makes you feel you have an answer. You may only be aware of looking at the back of someone's head, but you're also evaluating their size, their posture, their stance, any movement, etc. Some things have very little weight in the decision (hair color, for example,) some moderate (hair length and style, clothing) and some just flat out invalidate even strong evidence to the contrary (voice, for example.) Since you're doing this as a drive-by I assume you don't really have a chance to validate your decision, so you might be calling a few wrong and not know it.

[Paula DAngelo]

Gender recognition is generally what's known as a "fuzzy logic" exercise. ...... Some things have very little weight in the decision (hair color, for example,) some moderate (hair length and style, clothing) and some just flat out invalidate even strong evidence to the contrary (voice, for example.)

I have to agree with Pat's overall statement that recognition is an exercise in "fuzzy logic".

With that being said even some things that you would think should flat out invalidate your first impression don't always do that. As an example I had to approach a group and "explain" to them that some of the things they were doing could end up getting them into trouble. As I was walking towards them I hear one of them saying "Look it's a woman". Now seeing as the lighting was low and I was in my uniform that is almost identical to a males they definitely weren't basing there comment on my clothing and just on my overall appearance and movements. As I got closer and I started talking to them all of a sudden I heard "No it's a man". When I finally got up close enough to them so that I was seen in the light and was talking to them further the comment "No it is a woman" was made, and they said they were sorry for calling me a man.

To me this just shows that it's not any one thing that makes someone decide if a person is male of female, it's the whole package that's used to make the decision and no one factor decides it all.

[jennifer0918]

That's why I drive in the dark,I live among the creatures of the night.

[Teresa]

Sarah,
It's a very early instinct that babies have , knowing a female face from a male one, I don't think we lose basic instincts like this, OK as we get older we know fairly quickly where a threat may come from, a male usually means a greater threat than a female one .

I must admit I've been doing this exercise myself , a quick glance is usually enough the distinguish the gender .
When I'm driving the wig is one aspect that throws them , on more than occasion motorists have passed me when I'm driving to have a second look , then I make sure they can see my nails with varnish on when holding the steering wheel , closer examination usually by the passenger will pick up on earrings and a necklace .

I have to say it doesn't concern me , I just smile and watch the road .

[Bella.CD]

I don't know myself. I have been "clocked" before, later, I called and asked the clocking gas station attendant (she visibly laughed, and I knew why, it was because of me, lol) and asked for advice, to do better - next time. I was given some advice.

Advice was taken. It has worked, somewhat.

[Dana44]

I would say that maybe your wrong on some of those. And male and female hair are pretty close. But dressed as a male might still be wrong. I have been dressed very male and been called mam.

[RADER]

If you want true Gender Radar, Find a pre-Teen age Girl.
They can spot you from 20 miles away.
Rader

[sarah_hillcrest]

Since I've been thinking about it and testing myself it's become fascinating to me. It almost feels as if I know gender before I even look at the person. I've looked at lots of transition timelines and it just blows my mind how I can look at the same person and instantly know they are a different gender. I don't think it's one change just many tiny changes. In a few of the pictures I've taken I have occasionally fooled myself, but its usually from extreme angles. Though I'm 90% passable from the rear.

[GaleWarning]

It is because the skull structures of men and women really are significantly different. I'm not an expert, but apparently the brows are different, as well as the jaw line, just to name two.

[Charlotte7]

As people, we are set up to recognise faces, it's a basic human instinct. Have you noticed that when you see a random pattern how the first thing you see is a face? Have you also noticed that when you do this, the face that you see, if it is a human face, is always either male or female? It's something our brains do without us ever needing to think about it. I suppose the brain uses its collected knowledge built up over a lifetime and makes a 'best guess' though in this case, the best guess is quite sophisticated.

[deebra]

I was in the mall yesterday and spotted this person staring at their phone; really nice set of boobs, girl jeans, girl shoes, long hair and what appeared to be a man's face. Started to walk over and ask if she had the time just to find out. If I clocked her then what should I have said next, wouldn't want to offend. Maybe she would have recognized I had on tight girl jeans and the front of my jacket protruded, if that would have broken the ice it would have been nice to talk to a sister.

[bridget thronton]

I would say more like frame elaboration - but I guess the initial frame selection could be done using fuzzy logic

[Kayliedaskope]

Do you think there is one giveaway feature or is it just a combination of different features that your unconscious brain uses for a near instant gender identification?

Yes. It's called lipstick.


That's why I drive in the dark,I live among the creatures of the night.

And apparently a fan of Laura Branigan. :)

[docrobbysherry]

While copying some papers at a stationary store I studied a M to F "trans" working behind the counter. I was sure she was a he. But, I really had to know! So, I walked up to his counter and asked him a question. :daydreaming:

Where upon she answered in a perfect female voice! And, up close I could see she was simply a masculine, horse faced woman!:eek:

[Beverley Sims]

Rader,

You did not have to be in the Navy to know that, they all carry radar in their bras before the fill out with puberty.

I think that is what it is.

Doc,
Then there's whats her name? on Good Morning America.

A nice lady, successful but she has the same kind of bone structure.

[Linda Stockings]

I agree with everyone on this one. And I've also been wondering.... Does anyone know the "method" or "logic" or the steps that facial recognition software uses? Does it assess characteristics and then start comparing the data points to people in the "comparison" database - such as a no fly list? Or would it work by assessing things such as gender and then work only with those in that group, then assess other characteristics individually such as glasses/no glasses, height, estimated weight, etc.? I could see either one working with SOME level of accuracy. I imagine on things "easy" to measure for a computer....maybe height, glasses, that computers would still make many errors. And many of its "conclusions" might not be very acurate for the overall purpose ....makeup/no makeup, actual heel height, apparent breast projection, jewelry/no jewelry, then adding in the TYPE of jewelry...pendant, bracelet, size of wristwatch. Ultimately, I agree that ANY type of method would require the inclusion of ALL or MOST of the datapoints (the combination), even if they have a DNA sample. While a DNA sample can be extremely accurate, there are well doumented and verified exceptions.

[char GG]

Most CDers that I have seen (from my husband's social group), don't sit with their knees together, even while wearing a dress. They almost always have a distinctive walk. A few, in particular, wear way too much eye makeup (super dramatic cat eyeliner for day wear or blue eye shadow is almost always a dead giveaway).

[Micki_Finn]

Gender is a 50:50 proposition. All it takes is the smallest of cues to top that heavily in your favor, then add a sprinkle of confirmation bias and BLAMO, you’re psychic. :P