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Jennifer2918
11-29-2017, 02:56 AM
Hello to all,

New to this site, but lerking for a long time just reading and getting more support than you realize.

To give you some perspective, I am nearly 55 years old.

I know there are other threads on this subject, but most seemed older; so I wanted to start a fresh one.

Anyways, I remember when I was7-9 years old and found a pair of my mothers pantyhose drying in the shower. I tried them on, ruining them of course as I did not know how to put them on correctly. I remember trying to put them on like a pair of pants, not good. I figured out how to put them on correctly rather quickly, and would do so every chance I got.

Then came high school and my pantyhose thing died down. At a high school halloween party, my girlfriend dressed me in her cheer leading outfit and I was in heaven all night. Then came college and joining the work force with little to no activity.

Then suddenly, about 20 years ago, it all came flooding back. It started by wearing the wife lingerie when home alone. Then, I became more daring and would wear it out under drab clothing, occasionally letting myself get caught by strangers.

About 10 years ago, I asked the wife if I could try on her used panties, which she agreed to. This lead to our purchasing of a few pair of panties for me. Then, one time shopping at a local thrift store, I picked up a pair of pantyhose and found they were a size that would fit. I showed them to her and her comment was, 'if you want them...' and into the cart they went.

Now, she is aware I enjoy crossdressing, but does know what I have as a wardrobe. On a day off of work where she had to work, I called her and asked if she minded if I went to a Good Will store in a neighboring community. She said go ahead.

At the store, I found a couple of skirts and dresses. The SA was very helpful and pleasant. I brought them home, but only had a small compartment to keep them in (out of sight, out of her mind).

This wardrobe has grown lightly over time (been purged once, but re-stocked later). She now has allowed me to hang my dresses (6) in the far end of my closet, allowing me more room in the compartment for additional clothing items.

We have an arrangement which allows me to go out one night a week (usually very early Sunday morning), for an hour or so, to do my 'running' around. She knows that I am dressing, but have to leave the house in drab mode and cannot change until away from home. I have asked her if she wants to come with me to see exactly what I am doing, but she has always declined. When I have asked if she has any questions, she says no and changes the subject. She has seen me dressed in womens pants, exercise shorts, and pantyhose, but nothing more than that.

I am hopeful that someday she will be more open for this and accompany me on an outing.

Kendalli
11-29-2017, 05:23 AM
For me it started when I was 12 or 13. I was curious what panties felt like, so I snuck into the parents room and tried some on. That quickly led to me trying anything and everything she owned on. Heaven. In college things slowed down as I did not want to be outted but picked up shortly after.

Now I'm out to the wife. She has some major trepidations about all of it, but she is willing to let me explore where this will go. She has seen me in a few things and has been supportive so far, but trying to take it slow for her since this has been such a shock to her.

alwayshave
11-29-2017, 05:56 AM
Jennifer, probably not an uncommon story about how you started. I'm glad your wife understands even if she does not want to see it. Started at 4 or 5 and now I have an accepting partner and go out dressed, she comes along.

Elizabeth G
11-29-2017, 06:28 AM
I was about 11 or so when I started. I was at that age where interest in the fairer sex was beginning and so I found myself checking out the lingerie section of the Sears catalog (that's about as racy as it got around my house when I was a kid). Very quickly I realized I was was becoming just as fascinated with what the models were wearing as I was with the models themselves and the exploration began from there. I've been dressing sporadically ever since, although it seems to have become more of a permanent thing now. It began all those decades ago with mostly just lingerie but now I have a pretty full wardrobe and enjoy getting out fully en femme on the all too rare chances that I get to do so.

Sabrina.K
11-29-2017, 07:46 AM
From about 14 or so, I constantly fantasised about trying on dresses. Mostly certain kinds, like maid uniforms and chinese-style dresses.

It wasn't until I got my first job at 17 when I could finally buy some stuff :D. I started with a black knee-length chinese dress. I spent many hours sat at my computer in it (With a wedge under my door in case a family member tried to burst in lol).

So I've been doing the same thing on and off since then. Other than cosplaying for fun, I've not gone out dressed, which I really hope to one day do.

BillieS
11-29-2017, 09:07 AM
I started when I was 7 or 8, lured by my mother's shapewear! But I dressed only occasionally during my childhood and never as an adult until about 20 years ago. That's when my wife urged me to put on some makeup and, well, one thing led to another. I've been a dedicated dresser since then, tho with waxing and waning periods. This is a major waxing period now.

Jean 103
11-29-2017, 10:15 AM
Thank you for sharing. I'm sure you know if you have been here very long, that the level of acceptance you enjoy is good. She must be very special.

There were signs but I really only started dressing a few years ago. My wife is not understanding at all. We've been separated for about three years.

I live openly as a transgender person. I represent as male at work. The rest of the time I'm Jean. I'm on my third roommate situation, all have been very understanding. I don't know where the road leads from here, but for now I'm in a good place.

Jaylyn
11-29-2017, 10:31 AM
I suppose I started at birth. Mom just knew she was having a girl baby so much that she sewed out of flour sacks gowns and several little dresses for me. I used to have several baby pictures all black n white and small, of me dressed in the frill dress she made. She let me play in her stuff and even dabbed red lipstick on me even painted my toes nails n finger nails once. Dad put a stop to it and cut my curly locks off around three or four years of age. I dabbled in her stuff as a teen off and on. Then quit during high school and college. It came roaring back though after I married and my wife left her things out and we had a discussion about me enjoying wearing women's clothes she said she thought I loved makeup as I always wanted to to put more on. It has grown to now I have my own panties and a chest full of things I enjoy wearing. I had to promise the wife I'd never Embarrass or wear the things out in public. She has helped dress me many time teaching me makeup skills and such. She one day recently just quit liking it so much as to put me in a DADT type situation. So that's my story pretty much.

NancySue
11-29-2017, 10:48 AM
As I recall, around 6-7, I was invited to join our next door sisters in their game of “dress up”. I didn’t see much fun in it until they suggested I try on a pair of pantyhose. I had no clue how to put them on, so they helped me. It was like a lightning bolt. I remembered it to this day. I couldn’t wait to go “exploring” in my Moms and sisters things. I’m pretty sure my sister knew what I was doing, but never said anything. Fast forward. I continued. I told my wife before the “I do’s”, thinking she’d run, but she didn’t. After many long talks, reading, patience, etc., she’s not only accepted my dressing, but also is supportive, especially with makeup. Priceless. I have my own complete wardrobe and freedom to dress whenever and whatever I want...but I never seem to have enough pantyhose or thigh highs. Lol. I usually wear underneath Monday to Friday, then dress more on weekends. We live in a smaller town, which inhibits going out, but I/we venture out of town occasionally.

Sarah Doepner
11-29-2017, 11:05 AM
I had plenty of feelings I didn't understand and couldn't match up with the clothes as early as 6 or 7. By middle school I was starting to understand and began wearing my mothers things and that continued for a few years until I outgrew her things. During the last of high school, college and early career I was an opportunity dresser and didn't get the opportunity very often but it picked up as I began trying a few of my wife's things on. Eventually I got more and more of my own things, was caught by her, was told after a few days she would support me and I began getting more of my own things. I started going out, usually when out of town or very late at night. Eventually I joined a local support group and although my wife was fighting cancer, she went to meetings with me and when in Las Vegas we went out together as well. After she passed away my closet continued to fill and now I'm out to my grown children, a few other family members and a friend or two. I've seen a counselor and seriously consider the possibilities of seeing if hormones would help me quiet my mind. I may never fully transition but given the distance I've traveled I'll never say never. The limiting factor may end up being the number of years I have left to walk around rather than what I expect and plan for.

DIANEF
11-29-2017, 11:05 AM
I was about 10-11 when I started with my sisters undies and swimming costumes, first dress at 15 and been doing it ever since. In terms of age I'm just a year or so behind you Jennifer, and welcome to the forum.

Leann_M
11-29-2017, 11:43 AM
When I was 15 a friend of mine brought over a movie that had a crossdressing scene in it. My parents weren't home so after the movie we went in my moms lingerie drawer and put a couple of slips on over our clothes as a joke. After my friend went home I was curious so I stripped down and THEN pit on the slip. The feel of the material was wonderful and I liked how femine it made me feel. I've been hooked ever since.

Stephanie47
11-29-2017, 11:48 AM
I don't remember exactly how old I was when the allure of women's clothing hit me. I know it was my mother's nylon slips. My family lived in an apartment. We had a washing machine, but, no dryer. My mother hanged the laundry to dry on a clothesline running down the hallway to the bedrooms and in the bathroom on a drying rack suspended from the ceiling over the bathtub. I loved the feel of the nylon slips. At first I would just fondle them in the hallway. After a while I decided to try one on in the bathroom. I loved the feel of nylon. It was unlike any of the little boy clothes I wore. I had no sexual motivations at that early age. I had no sisters or female cousins. I had no female playmates. It was purely the nylon. Later I tried on my mother's floor length nylon nightgowns. I guess those articles of clothing hooked me. I think it was entering puberty that my interests expanded into wearing my mother's girdles, stockings, bras and panties.

Why did this start? I wish I knew. I have some thoughts about it, but, it is sheer conjecture.

sometimes_miss
11-29-2017, 12:06 PM
It started when I was molested and dressed up as a girl for someone else's pleasure; it all started right after first grade. It continued because he convinced me that god had made a mistake, and that I was supposed to have been born a girl. It goes on to this day, I'm guessing, because for all that time, I really believed that I was supposed to be a girl, and was waiting throughout my adolescence for god to fix me, and perhaps due to that belief all through that stage of development, the feeling remains; I'm stuck feeling like a girl on the edge of puberty, waiting for my body to develop as a woman. As this feeling has been with me now for nearly 50 years, I guess I'm permanently stuck feeling like I'm supposed to be dressed as a girl basically all the time. Once I figured out that I wasn't gay or transsexual, I sort of wondered why I still felt the draw towards girl clothes and behaviors; our mental health professionals give us the subtle implication that if we only work through all out problems and discover why we feel the way we do, we'll somehow be 'cured'. Nope, doesn't work that way. Turns out the best we can hope for is to be able to understand it all, and be able to cope with it a little better. So anyone hoping for a cure will be pretty disappointed.
Anyway, it's not a crippling problem, as when I'm busy with work or something the desire to dress up as a girl isn't always up front and on my mind, but it's always there, lurking in my subconscious, waiting to come front and center once again. I can consciously suppress it, but after a time, I become irritable and short tempered. So, I dress up when I can, to keep the tension from building up.

So, where am I? I'm a closeted crossdresser. When I discovered just how rare it was to find a woman who would accept this in a man, I really had no choice. It was stay closeted or be alone all the time. The choice was a no brainer. Oh, I date, but I don't tell the women that I crossdress. I gradually ask them things regarding crossdressing, and see if there's any chance they might be accepting of it. So far, in 19 years, nope, not a single woman would be accepting of this. So I simply stay closeted, and enjoy what time I have with them until the 'where is this relationship going' conversation comes around, and then I wind up breaking it off. OH well. Better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved, at all.

Ceera
11-29-2017, 01:59 PM
I have early memories of trying on some of my mom's slips, panties, bra and girdle as a kid. My bedroom was in the basement after I was bout seven years old, and that was where the laundry room was too. So it wasn't hard to examine laundry that had been left to run late the night before - or to run the dryer for a few minutes to warm up the clothes in it. Nothing really fit me, but I did like the way her slips felt against my bare skin - especially when they were warm from the dryer. Never tried to keep anything, and always returned the items to the laundry after a few minutes.

About the same age, 10 or so, I recall playing with moms lipstick a few times. It was fun seeing myself with it on, but I was lousy at applying it! Always washed it off again right away, and put the borrowed lipstick back.

By my teens I knew I was bi, but also knew my dad wouldn't accept that. So I spent a large part of my life in denial of my feminine urges. Married a nice girl and tried to 'play it straight'. She knew I was bi, but also knew I had agreed to be monogamous and only mate with her. My only 'feminine expression' for many years was that when playing games where I could pick my character's gender, I would, as often as not, choose a female character. Got so good at role-playing women that my on-line gamer friends believed my female characters were being played by a real-life gamer girl. I also wrote some erotic fiction that featured bisexual or cross-dressing or transgender characters.

Fast forward to 2012. A month or so before my 56th birthday, my father died. My mom had died the year before. While I was back in my home town to attend my dad's funeral, I decided that since I no longer had to worry about my parents 'finding out' my inclinations, I would at least try buying some panties and a corset to wear in private, to see how it felt. I brought them home with me, and hid them in a gym bag. After a month or so I had added a cheap wig, some panty hose, a blouse, a skirt and a heavily padded bra to my 'secret stash'. But I only wore them at home, when alone. Still had a full beard, and wasn't about to go outside and be seen, or even to admit to my wife that I was doing this much.

By 2013, I had switched to under-dressing with panties full-time, and my wife and daughter knew and accepted that I was wearing panties under my male clothes. I used the excuse that I preferred the bikini style briefs, but that they only sold them for women... Still pretty much doubted I would ever go outside while dressed...

Then at the start of 2014 I lost my wife to a heart attack. 57 years old and a widower, I decided to come out to my 18 year old daughter, and admit that I wanted to shave off the beard and try to explore the feminine urges I had been suppressing all my life. I already knew she had several gay and lesbian friends in her high school, and even had one high school friend who was going through MtF transition, living full time as a female, and accepted by my daughter and their school friends! She was 100% supportive. Even started going out shopping with me for women's clothes! I did not yet know if I was a bi crossdresser or actually transgender, but I was determined to find out!

By the end of 2015, I had been going out publicly as Ceera for a year and a half, going out several times per week. 75% of my social time was en-femme. I could pass for female even in a bikini! I had more friends who knew me solely as a woman than I had ever had as a male. Most of my new social friends were lesbians, who accepted me as part of their circle of friends. Most of my clothes and shoes were female. I knew by then that I was transgender, bisexual but still primarily attracted to women. That made me mostly lesbian while out en-femme. We moved to Oregon, where I live now, and I decided that in our new home, our new friends and neighbors would know me as both my male and female sides - that I would live openly as a trans-woman early in her transition.

And that is where I stand now. 95% of my social time is en-femme. 90% or better of my wardrobe is female. And it is likely that next year, I'll change the gender marker on my driver's license, birth certificate and other legal papers to female!

Rayleen
11-29-2017, 05:23 PM
Where do I start ?

In the 70's after married, So worked during the day, I worked nights. So my mind was trained by previous teens habit
of trying on garter belts with nylon, very addictive. shopping for panty ,bra .

As I was alone before our daughter arrived, I had started to explore my wife's clothing such as hot pants in the 70's
I tried a pair which she had put aside and wow did give me the chills.I had quite a few dressing session but was not out yet
to my wife.

The came summer and the beach. I wanted to try sunbathing in Buff. First attempt was in a wood lot I had and went alone one afternoon
It was amazing how the air was caressing every part of my body. So we have a 6 mile sand bar not far and its classified as visitors
friendly to walk and bathe in the nude. I went alone, SO was not wanting to come because of her family and religious belief .
This was great for a part of the summer and it was something I wanted to do for a long time. never done it after .

After the kid arrived, came responsibility and things cooled off quite a bit, with less occasion to practice my favorite hobby CD.

Only after she was gone from the house, I resumed acquiring stuff and learning a few technique of the trade. I knew I could not go on without coming out to SO and I did and slowly she tolerated me and she kind of liked it,cause I went shopping and she liked my
choices of clothing for her and told her stuff I liked and was very cooperative helping me. We always have a good communication
which is the success in being accepted .

StephanieM
11-29-2017, 05:33 PM
For me it started as a dream, my grandmother had dressed me up in bra and panties, and when I woke all of a sudden I had an interest. The weird part is she had dressed my dad up as a girl when he was a small boy which caused him to become a CD. I had no idea of this until many years later.

Alice B
11-29-2017, 06:16 PM
First of all, Welcome to this site. You will make friends here. The fact that your wife knows and has not screamed at you and allows you some freedom is a good thing. If your marriage is strong then with time she wil become more accepting. Be patient and don't push it. My wife does not wanty to participate in any fashion, but allows me to dress and go out. She has seen me fully dressed and just looks away. No screaamimg etc. I did not start until my 60's and never had any of the adventures you had in your earlier years

Cassie38
11-29-2017, 11:44 PM
Like most, I remember first trying on my mother's clothing when I was young, probably around 7 or 8. That continued into my teens. I stopped in college, but was reintroduced to this world while I was in grad school by my girlfriend at the time. She suggested I crossdress because she loved my long hair. She even went out and picked up a few things at thrift stores for me. She helped me with my hair, makeup, and shaving (I have hairy legs, chest, stomach). I have to admit, she made me passable. Sadly, the photos she did take of me were on 35mm (this was early 00s when digital camera weren't mainstream too much). Sadly, those photos have been lost over the years.

Becky Blue
11-30-2017, 12:49 AM
Well for me it started at age of 4 or 5 where I started a game I called 'pretend I am a girl' I even had my girl name Karen (An older cousin - clearly limited imagination in those days lol). I asked my mother to out a ribbon in my hair. I played the game on and off for about 3 years.. just one of quite a few games I played. I often wonder what would have happened if I had a sister, I am fairly certain I would have been trying on her clothes. I stopped playing the game when we moved cities when i was 8. At no stage can I recall wanting to actually be a girl.

Then at 12 I discovered how much of a turn on putting on items of female clothing could be... That phase lasted uuuuhhhh over 25 years before Becky emerged and the fetishtic hobby went away.

sara66
11-30-2017, 07:04 AM
I was 4 or 5 putting on mom's bras. Today I am fully dressed and going out in the real world.
Sara

binni101
11-30-2017, 07:12 AM
Since I can remember it started with pantyhose. The farthest I have gone in under dressing is pantys and hoisery to the local store. The farthest in dressing is underwear, hoisery, heels, dress and lipstick. Im a "closet case" in my crossdressing so I have not gone into makeup :/

Beverley Sims
11-30-2017, 07:39 AM
Started about four until today about 90 percent of the time.

ChubbyLeahCD
11-30-2017, 05:22 PM
Funny that the OP mentioned pantyhose drying in the shower. For me it was my grandma’s panties drying in the shower.
Remember as a child, 5 or 6, Seeing a pre-school teacher standing with hands on her hips, feet spread out and t-strap sandals and a* wanted those sandals.
As middle school started I got more alone at home time and I raided my mom’s clothes every time.
When I moved out of my dorm and had my own apartment, I would go in my bedroom and dress. My roommates had no idea. My first outfits came from an amateur porn website where the lady sold her clothes worn on photo shots.
Now I have a hidden stash, wear it alone at home or when traveling for work and the wife doesn’t know :-(

Confucius
11-30-2017, 06:39 PM
I don't recall a time when I wasn't interested in crossdressing. My mother wanted a daughter so my birth was a disappointment for her. When I was only six months old she because pregnant with my sister. When she was born it was the happiest day of my mom's life. My sister grew up as my mother's pampered little princess, and I grew up thinking that my mother would love me more if I was born a girl. I thought that all parents preferred girls and that girls were better than boys. By the time I was 3 years old I was already raiding my mom's closet and pretending I was a girl.

Lana Mae
11-30-2017, 08:45 PM
Some where between 4-6 when a playmate flipped her dress over her head and I thought it was so cool that I wanted a dress so I could do that! Through teen years, wear various of mom's clothes when the parents were away! To wearing panties every so often (3-5 times) during my marriage! To 2015, wife passed away and had to find out what all this was about! Now at 66, I am enjoying the journey and just letting it flow! In panties when not at work! Finger and toe nails are colored always! Ears are pierced and have pearl studs in! Wear women's jeans and shoes(loafers) or sneakers! Dress when I feel like it(fully). Sleep in panties and women's night shirt every night! Just enjoying it all! Hugs Lana Mae

Christina89
12-01-2017, 01:58 AM
I started when I was 12. I had come home from school one day and I was watching tv, Totally Spies to be exact. Loved that show. But I was watching it and wondering to myself what it would be like to wear women's clothing. I got a sudden urge in my body. I went up stairs heart racing a million miles a min, I grab one of my mother's old bikini and I loved the feel of it on my body. I'm sorta kinda 50/50 in the closet. A few people know and a few don't. I wanted to so badly to tell my ex step mother before my father and her got a divorce that I crossdressed cause she was always caring and understanding and I think she would have loved it.

Charlotte7
12-01-2017, 07:42 AM
I would have been four years old. I just knew that I wanted to wear one of my sister's dressers, she's two years older. It was during the summer and I remember playing out in the garden wearing the dress. From then I was hooked. I knew that if I couldn't be a girl then I wanted to be like a girl, to wear their clothes, and to have the same feelings of the loose material on me. The feeling was so strong and even at four years old I knew it wouldn't go away, and I didn't want it taken away from me, so I never asked again and I kept it secret. I then wrapped things around me, like towels and pretended that they were dresses and skirts. On one occasion I wrapped a duvet around me and felt like I was a princess wearing a fine gown. Then, I found out where my mother kept her underwear and we started to share it :) After a short while I started wanting to dress fully and so whenever I was alone in the house, (not very often) I would fully dress in either my mother's or sister's things. That was my teenage years. I started to get a few things of my own. from jumble sale bags that sometimes were left in the house. Like many girls, I remember my first bra. It was one of my mother's. A strap had snapped and so she threw it away. When it appeared in the outside bin, I took it in and repaired it. Then to college, where I started to buy my own things, then, 18 months after leaving college I met my partner, and 30+ years we're still together. I told her I like to dress more or less straightaway, certainly before we moved in together. She was very accepting and since then, I've had the keys to the kingdom and dress as often as I want.

moniquemn
12-01-2017, 12:56 PM
it all started in my early teens with my mom's clothes. it continue thru high school. it just seemed to feel right. loved dressing so much I stated buying my own things and dressing almost every day. When I got married my wife was mildly approving of me dressing but only when she wasn't home. to this day I wish I had been born female.

Aunt Kelly
12-01-2017, 02:55 PM
I wonder how all of our mothers would feel, knowing that "...it all started..." with the hosiery or lingerie hung to dry in the bathroom. It didn't, of course. Those things were just the trigger, but I get a bit of a twisted giggle out of picturing a half-million mortified mothers learning that they accidentally "turned their little boys into cross dressers". I'd like to see Dr. Phil help them work through that one for them.

ColleenCD
12-02-2017, 05:39 PM
Using my parent's bathroom at age 8, I was intrigued by the sight of a pair of suntan pantyhose drying on the towel rack. My heart and mind wondered what it would be like to wear this staple of femininity. I carefully tried them on learning the sensation that I would need to continually experience. Today I still enjoy hose along with many other pretty clothes and some make up. My wife offers gentle allowance bordering on mild support but I am careful not to push her too far.

Robyn2006
12-02-2017, 06:56 PM
I knew from early on that I was not one of the boys, though it wasn't until I was 14 that I found out there were other possibilities for me. During those magical years I was simply drawn towards all my mother's and two gorgeous older sister's things, and all that they were able to do in front of their bathroom mirrors. Why couldn't I do that too? Then on one fateful day when all alone, I did... I did that too. Forever remembering that first time, putting on my mother's one-piece bathing suit with its (my) breast cups filled wildly with toilet paper and standing there in front of the mirror, putting on lipstick. Fast forward a thousand years and you now find me a very happy would-be woman, doing all I can on each and every weekend to become as glamours and beautiful and I know to be. Was a rocky ride, but I would only change the crazy guilt I felt back then when I was so cluelessly thinking I was the only boy on the planet to do such things.

Diedre
12-03-2017, 10:49 AM
I was about 12 and it was my mother who got me started. She did sewing and alterations for added income and decided to use me as the dress dummy when it was appropriate to my size.

At first I hated it, but then after a few sessions found it rather fun. There were times I would wear a bra, girdle, stockings slip and heels to make everything hang properly. But unfortunately it got noticed that I started to enjoy things a little too much and would stayed dressed in the lingerie long after the fitting.

I would use the excuse that I would change right after the TV show I was watching was over. Sadly my mother got a dress form from a second had shop and I was out of a job, but still dressed in secret.

Sometime later a female cousin confronted me about my dressing. Apparently she overheard mother telling my aunt about her concerns with me dressing. Anyway, my cousin thought it would be fun and would help me dress and it would be our secret.

My cousin had amazing makeup skills and being a young teen I could easily pass. It was such a blast wearing Marcia Brady style dresses and mini skirts, pantyhose, heels and fooling the world.

Sadly once full puberty hit I could not pass in a dark room full of people wearing sunglasses. So, while I still enjoy hose, nightgowns and lingerie, I have not worn a stuffed bra nor makeup in over 40 years.

Teresa
12-03-2017, 11:26 AM
Jennifer,
Every time this question comes up I still wait to see if anyone does relate to my story of how my CDing started , again there are over thirty replies and again not one relates to me .

I eventually told my story in the TS section expecting a match but still no one did.

After my gender counselling I now accept that I'm not unique , someone out there will relate but the important point is I no longer have a problem with it. OK I know this may stir some up again but away from the forum I did some research and asked doctors conversant with this subject and received the answer that I was a classic case of AGP. I know I was born with a female trait but it all became intertwined sexually at the age of 8-9 years , at the time it was traumatic, the outcome being those deep feelings have never left me .

So where does that leave me now, well I've finally decided after 43 years of marriage that this side of me isn't going away so I'm now about to separate from my wife to possibly go full time in my new home as Teresa . Going out socially has been an eye opener , I know I can do this , I just have to get my head round a more female lifestyle, contemplating full time takes some thinking through .

Marianne S
12-04-2017, 06:22 PM
It's interesting to see how many of us started dressing by being attracted to underwear of some kind--and how many started early in childhood! I was slightly different. There were a couple of instances early on where I dressed in female clothing, but I don't see these as significant. I didn't really start crossdressing until puberty hit.

I was an only child. When I was maybe four or five and didn't have to go to school, some mornings after my father had left for work I'd crawl into bed with my mother and we'd talk or play together. One of those mornings she got up and dressed for her usual daily activities, leaving me in the bed with her nightie lying on it. Out of curiosity, I put her nightie on. I can't recall what feelings, if any, were associated with this, though I suppose it felt nice. After a little while she came back into the bedroom, looked a bit surprised when she saw me, and said "Oh, I didn't know you were wearing my nightie!" That's all I remember.

Then when I was seven years old my mother dressed me as a female character for a competition held at my school--and I won a prize! They put my picture in the local town newspaper. My appearance was clearly convincing. I had a curly wig on, and after the newspaper guy snapped my photo he commented "I got her very nicely." My father, who was standing nearby, was a bit put out by this remark, and told him firmly: "That's my son!" I thought it was all funny, and so did my mother. I've never forgotten this story because she repeated it so often, and she was always amused by men dressing as women for some stage comedy. Monty Python for instance was an absolute hoot for her on those grounds alone.

However, I mention these two early incidents because I do not consider them "formative" in any way. Some people seeking an explanation for their compulsion to crossdress may look for it in early childhood, especially if anyone at the time "encouraged" or worse, forced them to crossdress. I think anyone should use caution in accepting such an "explanation," which may have no truth in it whatsoever.

To take the examples in my own childhood, I believe the nightie incident was no more than an experiment on my part, done on a whim as so many experiments are: "Just for the heck of it," if you like. As a child I don't recall any "compulsion" to try on my mother's nightie, or any "need" to do so "in secret" or in spite of any embarrassment. There wasn't any embarrassment. I wasn't afraid of my mother seeing me. What I did by trying her nightie on seemed as natural to me as picking up any toy and seeing what I could do with it! I'm pretty sure I was surprised because my mother looked surprised when she came back into the bedroom! What's to be "surprised" about when I was just playing?

More to the point, I never felt any compulsion to repeat the experiment, not at the time. I can't help wondering how many little boys at some time in their lives have tried on female clothes as the same kind of natural experiment--or been encouraged to do so--yet they never grew up to be crossdressers! So we should be careful of "seeing" cause and effect where it doesn't exist.

The same goes for that costume contest when I was seven. Although it was fun to win a prize, I had no special feelings about being dressed as a female, and it didn't lead to any compulsion to continue doing so at the time.

To me this is all very different from the posters here who have told us they were not only attracted to certain female clothing from an early age, but continued to indulge that attraction all through childhood. I'd say that was satisfying some need inside themselves: a need that I wasn't aware of (at least) until after puberty.

There was a third incident when I was fourteen, staying with my parents at a vacation resort, when I and a couple of other boys of the same age were dressed as girls for a contest. And so was my father, in a far more comic vein, wearing my mother's swimsuit! That time it was my father who won the prize in the "adult" category! As a teenager, I lost out to a kid named John, who also made an attractive girl. It was a memorable event anyway, when not only my mother but a deliciously attractive blonde girl of eighteen named Linda helped to dress me. I wore a skirt, blouse, bra and panties, the lot; all borrowed, of course. That was a beautifully erotic memory. But again, it was not the "cause" of my crossdressing, because I'm sure that by that time I was already doing it in secret! Having a good-looking girl to help me with dressing only made it all the more arousing!

The real start of my crossdressing happened earlier, when I was maybe thirteen or perhaps as early as twelve. I wish I could remember it better now. But I do know I was home alone one evening while my parents were out together collecting for a charity, and my mother had left her skirt somewhere in the living room, probably waiting for her to iron it. As I remember, it was a loose cotton skirt, mostly blue, with a floral pattern, and I felt an urge to put it on. I took my pants off to do that. Although the memory is vague after all these years, I'm sure I got excited and... er... "pleasured myself," shall we say? (groping for an expression discreet enough not to get my post edited on this forum), worrying all the time about whether I could finish and get dressed again before my parents showed up and caught me in flagrante delicto, as it were. (Gee, looking at the forum rules, I hope I won't get edited for "not speaking English" in that last sentence!)

Luckily that disaster never happened, and I don't believe my mother (and certainly not my father) ever caught on to my crossdressing. I can't remember exactly how it proceeded from there, and in what sequence; I wish I could. But I do know that starting with that skirt, it wasn't long before I was dressing up completely in my mother's clothes. She had a day job by this time, so I looked forward to school vacations particularly when I was home alone for hours and often dressed in her clothes.

There had to have been a "first time" I put on her bra, her blouse, her slip, her girdle and nylons; I just don't remember it. Certainly there was a "first time" I slid into her silky panties, which must have been an early attraction, and which I loved to do last, as the crowning thrill once I was in skirt and blouse and everything else. Although it felt very much a fetish, it wasn't a fetish about one particular garment. I did want to dress completely as a girl or woman, and "look like" the girls I saw around me and found attractive.

I continued dressing all through my teens and adulthood, on and off, circumstances permitting. Long story short, "where am I at now?"

Sadly, I lost my wife three years ago after a very happy marriage. She was accepting of Marianne, though as our daughter grew older I stopped dressing openly at home, especially since her friends were often here. It's strange. She must remember me as Marianne when she was very small, but we've never talked about it. I'm not "out" to anybody now. I've been out in public a few times, experimentally, and that's fun, but I don't really expect to pass today, or not very well. So that goal, as nice as it could be, is not very important to me. Since my daughter has her own home now, closer to where she works professionally, I'm living on my own and that leaves me free to dress as I like much of the time, which I do often. I've always been comfortable in "guy mode," and while being Marianne was strictly a sexual thing in my teens, these days I'm just as comfortable with being female any time. So I guess that's "where I'm at now!"

Glenda58
12-04-2017, 07:15 PM
When I was 3 or 4 the neighbor's 6 yr old girl wanted to have tea party with all the girls I was the only boy. I couldn't come unless I was a girl. So she got her sisters cloths with panties slip and a lacy dress and put it on me to be one of the girls. All I remember was I loved it and didn't want to take it off. Been dressing ever since.

Shayla
12-04-2017, 09:25 PM
I started like so many of you- lingerie hanging on the drying line when I was 12 or 13. But always interested in women's underwear before that- upskirts on the playground, store catalogues, etc. But when I dressed for the first time, it was an incredible sensation. My whole family was upstairs and I could have been caught at any moment. But I lover the feeling of that bra and panties and how they made me feel. I knew two things: I would do it again, and I had to keep it completely secret. I added more lingerie over time, and figured I had a lingerie fetish. Until I got married and it was clear i wanted to cross dress. My wife was devastated, although we had fooled around while dating with some sexual cros dressing, she could not accept the idea of me wanting to do it more often. So I suppressed it for 15 years, sometimes dressing in secret, sometimes going without for a year or more at a time. We recently started marriage counseling (several issues) and after 15 years I brought up the cross dressing urge again. The therapist was helpful explaining it to my wife, and with the recent publicity about TGism and cross dressing, she had to admit that i should wear the lingerie when i needed to, but she would not participate. Now, feeling better about it myself, I am looking to dress completely and explore a bit more.

Doaranna
12-10-2017, 08:36 PM
I had earlier attempts ...but the real start for me was when my GG-GF came up with my costume at a Halloween many years back. Little did I realize that she was bi- with her very good friend that they spend time together when I was out of town. The surprise was that I was going as ELVIRA and the two of them took care of every detail. Still all the while I didn't have any idea that this was something that they had planned for many months.

She started by bathing and shaving me, and all the while refused to reveal any detail of my ultimate look. Of course it took several adult drinks but it was the most wonderful real introduction they could have given me. Started with stockings and pumps and a silk robe ... some walking lessons and then they did my makeup while not letting me see the progress until they finished with my look. OMG, I felt soo feminine and as the night went on all the male emotions just melted away ... she named me and took me to a friends party .... where all the T-wives were also dressed enfemme and it made me feel so natural and in my right place being enfemme. This was the beginning of dressing every weekend with her, and frequently going out ... with the three of us.

I remember every detail ... to this day.

Fiona123
12-12-2017, 01:38 PM
I'm 62. I started at age 10 by trying on my sisters one piece swimsuit. In my youth I dressed in my sisters' clothes whenever possible.

As an adult I have my own clothes. I've come to understand myself is transgender. I've been seeing a gender therapist for about a year. I'm married, we are in a dadt relationship. That part is not going very well. We have had a couple of joint counseling sessions that were just awful. Divorce is not out of the question.

CynthiaD
12-12-2017, 06:00 PM
I started when I was three years old, begging my mother to paint my nails with red nail polish. She complied, and I went around the neighborhood showing my nails off to the other kids. They mostly made fun of me, telling me that only girls wore nail polish. But I didn't care. I knew I was a boy, and accepted that, but I couldn't understand why I couldn't wear nail polish, pretty clothes, and have ribbons in my hair. By the time I was in high-school I was dressing fully en-femme whenever I could. I often wished that I had real breasts instead of rolled up socks, but I never actually thought of myself as a girl. I just couldn't understand what the big deal was about being male or female. The two seemed pretty much the same to me (and still do to some degree).

Fast forward to today. I dress in male clothing only when absolutely necessary. I spend most of my day (and night) fully en-femme. Whenever possible (which it frequently is for me) I spend the entire day fully en femme. Eventually I'll go 24/7, but not yet. I still don't see there being a lot of difference between male and female, but it seems necessary to choose a side, so I've chosen to be female. It suits me much better than being male, and I hate male clothing, which makes the choice quite natural. I find the idea of physical transition to be appealing, but not necessary. Still, you never know.

Hell on Heels
12-12-2017, 08:19 PM
Hell-o Jennifer,
I was 7 or 8 years old when I found myself home alone.
I remember sneeking into my mother's bedroom and opening
her lingerie drawer. I don't recall the actual feeling I had after
opening that drawer, I just knew I had to try some of it on.
Which I did...every chance I got!

Moving forward, my younger sisters were growing, and eventually
their clothes fit me....How AWESOME is that!

Then high school came along along where I made many new friends,
eventually a drivers license, and a car kept me quite busy.
Talk about a dramatic decline in CD desire...GEEZ!
I dressed sporadically well into my 20's, but an extremely
close call of being "caught" by my SO at the age of 28 had
me purging EVERYTHING, and I didn't dress again for years.

But of course we're all too aware that eventually, someday, I'd
dress again.
It started up again as a tiny trickle, little stolen moments now
and then trying on a pair of pantiehose, or giving a little makeup a go.
This went on for several more years, and it seemed that was all I needed.

WRONG!

I cant say exactly what caused such a huge increase in desire, or the
need to go all out with my dressing, but at the age of 48 I couldn't resist.
I found myself surfing the web for any, and all, information I could about
CDing, which lead me here.

I eventually was "caught" by my SO (that was one crazy night!) and I basically
told her this same story.
She has since been out and about with me being dressed, met many
of my friends, and together we've hosted a dinner/sleepover house party with them!

Much Love,
Kristyn

Julia96
12-13-2017, 03:33 AM
I remember putting on a thong for the first time when I was around the age of eight. I remember it feeling wrong but oh so right. I never really indulged in it except for a few other times while growing up. I actually purchased my first set of thongs from Walmart when I was 17. It was such a rush, my heart was beating a thousand miles an hour! I'm now 21 and have been wearing panties full time for almost a year with an increasing desire to get some outerwear. It's only a matter of time now before I go out and get a cute skirt and matching top to go with!

Patrica Gil
12-13-2017, 04:51 PM
Seen a women in a skirt suit and she was pretty. Everything was perfect on her. So I just had to try it myself. Dress, nylons, panty-girdle, and heels, before you know it I had plenty of nylons and looking to purchase more pretty stuff. Started under dressing in middle school, and still enjoy dressing a lot more as well.

faltenrock
12-14-2017, 02:57 AM
I started when I was about 12 years old. I went out the first time at about 17 or 18 and progressed from there. I had a few breaks where I didn't dress. I really started going out when I was about 35 with no wig or make-up. Now, when ever I go out dressed I totally present as female.
It feels great to be out and I think I'm fine with who I am now. My wife knows and tolerates if she doesn't have to see me dressed. My wardrobe is much larger then hers. I own about 30 dresses, 30 skirts, many tops and blouses, jackets, heels and so on...

Lacey New
12-14-2017, 06:39 AM
Like many of us, I started in early puberty - probably about 13 give or take a year or so. There were plenty of upskirts in school and the girls were starting to wear bras. All very interesting. At home, I had a choice between my mother's or my sisters's bras and panties and of course, curiosity got the better of me. once I put on a pair of nylon panties, I liked the feeling, the excitement and the fact that it was so taboo. I was also excited by the pictures in the the Sears and Pennys catalogs and I dreamed of wearing all of that lovely lingerie. I fantasized about being locked in a mall store overnight and trying on every piece of lingerie that they had. I also thought that I was the biggest pervert in the world and that there was no one like me. So, I kept my fetish and my desires secret as I dated and eventually married. However, my desire to dress, never went away. I would purge but then slowly rebuild my rather small stash. It is still small by most standards and I thought I was very much alone until the advent of the internet when I started exploring crossdressing online. I was (am still) trying to figure out why I crossdress and many other males do not. Well, fast forward about 50 years and I am still very much in the closet even to my wife. Too much invested in the "true male" world to upset that apple cart, but still enjoying my infrequent dressing times.

Stephanie Julianna
12-14-2017, 11:37 PM
I started trying on my sisters' and mother's clothes around 1956. I was 7 but I had wanted to dress like a girl for as long as I can remember as early as 3-4. So basicly I have never known a day without that desire. I did not go public until I was 30. By then I had actually been schooled in cosmetology to be a better cosmetics buyer for a retail chain and had been accepted into an elite circle of friends of Lee Brewster in NYC. Being only 5'5" with a good sense of the fashion of daily female wear I eventually developed a look that allowed me the freedom to pass in "straight" society as well as the NYC drag scene. My wife was always aware of my desire to dress since before we were married. She tried to be a part of it but it just went against her Catholic upbringing. So she let me do my thing but could not be a part of it. I had many good decades going about as I loved to dress and look but with my wife's retirement there are few windows of oppurtunity like there used to be. I still work part time as a Hospice RN and underdress almost all the time. But the chances to dress are far and few between. Nothing has changed or diminished overr the years with my love of dressing and presenting as female. It's just who I am. I would not change a thing with my life.

Patti Remick
12-15-2017, 03:59 PM
Ive been a CDr as far back as I can remember - probably from age 6 or perhaps a bit younger. I am the youngest of 3 with 2 older sisters that were 6 and 7 years older than me. My father traveled a lot on business and was away from home for days and even weeks at a time. When I was about 7 my mom went back to work full time. My mom always considered me a very 'grown up' little boy and felt I could take care of myself at home after school until my older sisters, and eventually she, got home. So from the time I was about 7 (c 1965) until well into my early teens I had plenty of after school 'home alone' time (this would be anywhere from 3-6 hours depending on when I got home and when my sisters did as they were very involved in after school activities). And for a young CDr our home was a paradise. My mother was a total pack rat (probably from growing up dirt poor herself) and kept almost all of my sisters old clothes from when they were younger. So I was home alone in a house filled with tons of perfectly fitting girls clothes. My father even had built a huge walk-in closet in our basement for my mother and sisters to keep there clothes in! My sisters had so much stuff - dresses, skirts, blouses, jumpers, even their old shoes! I wore their panties, tights, vests and training bras, and pantyhose. I wore almost everything of theirs that I could and by age 9 or 10 I was one of the best dressed little CDrs you could ever meet. Complete outfits head-to-toe, inside-out! And this was the 1960s and girls clothes were GIRLY. One of my sisters even had some wigs (she obviously was experimenting with her own looks) and they were just the icing on the cake for this little CDr. There were even ballet outfits and a skating dress. I dressed almost daily from age 9 to about age 14 in perfectly fitting and age correct little girls clothes!! I am sure this is the reason for my preference for little girls and girls clothes, as opposed to womens clothes, today (I can and do dress my age but prefer the younger -much younger - look). Eventually my sisters grew older and moved out and eventually most of the clothes were gotten rid of. I was never 'caught' or anything but certain events would lead me to speculate that my sisters and mother may have suspected something - Im just not sure. I was always very careful to put things back the way they had been in closets, drawers, etc., but doing this so often I never could be absolutely sure I covered my tracks. I look back on that time in my life with both joy and sadness. Joy in what I had and sadness that I would never have it like that again.

Love and hugs to all,
Patti Remick

susan2010
12-16-2017, 01:26 PM
I think I was too young to remember the first time, but I remember being 4 or 5 and wearing my big sister's petticoat. I still have a thing for petticoats. Later, after my sister married and moved out, it was mom's slips.

Ozark
12-19-2017, 11:12 PM
I was around 9 years old.

My 15 year old cousin had moved in with us. It was a sad story, her mother had died, her father remarried, the typical wicked step mother, car wreck, her father died and the step mother went into a nursing home.

Somehow in my 9 year old mind, I thought she (the cousin) was getting favorable treatment from my parents. I wanted to get the same kind of treatment.

For some reason I thought if I wore her clothes, my parents and grandparents would shower me with affection also.

I put on a pair of her yellow big panties (this was about 1958) and a pair of her side zip jeans. Nobody even noticed. (In retrospect I don't see how they could not have known, but they didn't say anything to me at the time.)

One time when my parents went on a trip and the cousin was in charge of us. She was downstairs reading a book. I got on a pair of her panties and crawled into her bed. (In our house it was scandalous to sleep in anything but pajamas or a nightgown.)

The cousin came upstairs and turned on the light in her bedroom and saw me in her bed. I feigned being asleep. She came over and ever so gently lifted up the covers and saw me in her panties. The covers came back down, she turned out the light and went and got into my bed.

After a while, I went into my bedroom in just her panties. She was in my bed reading a book. I told her I was scared and wanted someone to hold me. She looked at me and told me to go back to bed and hold myself.

The episode was never mentioned again.

She eventually went away to college.

Fast forward about 5 or 6 years. I had developed a bedwetting problem. Wet beds and wet sheets were a real bummer.

My father insisted I was just to d*** lazy to get out of the bed to go to the bathroom. Lots of tears, spankings and wet pajamas. My mother eventually bought me several pairs of 'stay dry' incontinent pants that I was to wear under my pajamas. I was both embarassed and excited about them at the same time.

My father had remodeled our basement and turned it into a bedroom. I was down there by myself, had a tv and radio and my school desk where I did my homework.

I had progressed to buying my own panties by this time.---this was before walmart and kmart. Went to Kresgee's or Woolworths to get them.

One night I was in bed in a just a pair of panties.

My mother came downstairs to kiss me goodnight. My pajamas were lying on my desk, along with some laundry she had told me to put away earlier in the day.

She told me to get out of bed and put away the laundry like she had told me to do. I told her no, could I do it in the morning, I was tired.

Mother insisted I do as she told me to do. Then she saw my pajamas and wanted to know why I didn't have them on and did I have on my 'protection' (That was our code word for the incontinent pants and diapers I wore to bed....we would NEVER call them by their real names, only by protection.)

Mother than told me to get out of bed right now. I refused. She reached down to pull my covers off of me and I blurted out, "Mom, I'm naked!"

She went over to my desk and picked up my pajama bottoms, gave them to me and told me put them on and put away the laundry.

I put the bottoms on over my panties while still under the covers and got out of bed and started to put away my laundry. She then insisted I wear protection to bed and I was always to wear protection and pajamas to bed. Nice people didn't sleep without pajamas.

She then swatted my butt. She must have been able to tell I had something on under my pajamas because she pulled out the waistband and asked me what I was wearing.

I started crying. I told her it wasn't fair, I hated wearing protection, I hated having to wear big white briefs (JC Penny double seats--she bought them for me) that looked like diapers, I hated wearing diapers to bed and I liked how these underpants felt. I told her I had bought them thinking they were boy's bikini underpants.

She hugged me and said she understood how I felt. But until I outgrew the bedwetting it was so much easier on her to have me wear protection. It was too much trouble to have to laundry everyday--we didn't have a dryer- and to wipe my face and put on my protection and go to bed.

And she stood there. I didn't know what I was supposed to do. I was too embarassed to pull off my pajama pants and have my mother see me in panties. I had only occasionally put on my protection in front of her, never in front of my father.

Finally I said the heck with it, sat on the bed and took of my pajama bottoms. I then walked over to my desk in my panties and turned my back, took off the panties and pulled on my protection.

I started to get back into bed and my mother asked if I was forgetting something. I started to put on the pajama bottoms. No, my mother said, finish putting away the laundry.

I put away the laundry in my chest of drawers just wearing my protection. I was so embarassed and excited at the same time and didn't know why.

When I was done, my mother came over and kissed me and said, 'don't forget your pajamas." and went out the door and turned out the light.

Oh man, I knew I was in trouble. Not only was I a bedwetter, but my Mom had found out I wear panties. And she was probably going to tell my dad. I worried about that until I fell asleep. I think I cried myself to sleep that night. I wished I had on panties instead of protection.

The next day when I got home from school, I was in my basement room lying on my bed watching TV. My mom came downstairs with a bag from Sears.

She sat on my bed and said she loved me and was so proud of me for being a nice young man. She told me she was sorry that I struggled so much. She knew I was a good kid. Things will get better she said. Then, as she leaned over and hugged me, she said, "I understand boys need their privacy," and handed me the bag. "These are for you", she said.

Somehow I knew I had the upper hand. I just laid there and didn't return her hug or take the bag. She got up, left the bag on my bed, said supper will be ready when your father gets home and went upstairs. At the top of the stairs, she turned and said to me, "I am not going to mention this to your father."

After a while, I looked in the bag. There was a package of panties from Sear's. Three pair, blue, yellow and white.

Emma S
12-19-2017, 11:58 PM
The first thing I ever remember putting on that I knew I wasn't supposed to was my little sister's diaper. I snuck down in the middle of the night and just tried it on really quickly before running back up to bed. I was 4 or MAYBE 5. I don't know why I did that and I don't have any kind of thing about diapers.

After that I remember trying on a skirt of my mom's that was on her sewing machine and eventually.......a bra! That might have been the most exciting piece I've ever tried on but I was so confused how it worked I think I put it on upside down at first!

As I went into my teens I would look for excuses to stay home when everyone was going places and I remember watching the vehicles pull away and then running to my parent's room to go through my mom's things. Just the fact that I'm telling anyone else this is liberating!

Sallee
12-20-2017, 01:17 AM
Wow Emma can I relate to your story I can remember that like yesterday. The folks would leave and I would be trying skirts and bras so quick Glad I wasn't the only kid doing that

VickiA
12-20-2017, 08:18 AM
I realized female cloths gave me a special feeling when I was about five. My friend and I put on his sisters ballet costumes. In my teens I always looked forward to being home alone and having access to my mom's cloths. After high school work, dating and finally marriage kept me from dressing. I always bought my wife sexy things to wear in the bedroom. Most of the cloths she wore once and never again. Soon I found myself buying one outfit for me when I ordered 3 for her. Then it became one for her and 3,4 or 5 for me. Although I am not remotely passable there is still a thrill of anticipation shopping and waiting for new cloths to arrive.

BrendaPDX
12-20-2017, 06:52 PM
I started dressing in my early teens like most here, mostly with my sisters clothes. I can remember trying on her pantyhose and admiring how good my legs looked. Been on and off ever since. In a DADT relationship now. Brenda

Barbara Black
12-23-2017, 12:27 PM
My 'interest' in girl's clothes was first noticed when I saw my sisters and their friends drop their play dresses on the sidewalk. I suggested that my friend and I put them on and surprise the girls, as they were across the street. We never got them on before the girls noticed us and we quickly pulled off the dresses and ran. I guess I learned to keep it to myself after that.

Monique65
12-23-2017, 02:55 PM
I must have been 8 or 9 when I first became interested my my mother's girdles and hose. I remember trying to figure out how to wear them and the rush when I finally got them right. When I was home alone I would sneak into my sister's room and try on her skirts and dresses. I went out on Halloween dressed as a girl one time, and it was an awesome experience but I never did it again.