Would you ask a CD/TG the question?

[IleneD]

I was shopping the other day with my wife. I was in drab with a morning beard stubble, except for my gold ear hoops and a brightly colored silk scarf I wore.
I noticed a couple (M&F apparently) in the women's dept and then in another part of the store (a Target). "She" was slender of build; slight in the shoulders and narrow waist. She wore jeans and ordinary t-shirt and a jacket. Her long natural hair was pulled back and braided into 2 pigtails. She had large gold ear hoops. Except of the slight hint of beard growth around her nose and chin she would have passed splendidly. Her slight man-hands (not prominent) and the fact she had "shadow" on her chin too, and not just that "woman moustache" that some GGs get, were my only hints.
She was with "male" partner who possibly could have been a FtM transgender himself, but I couldn't quite detect it; though he had but a slight beard growth of soft fine facia hair.

I was intrigued, because this was in a small town and not a cosmopolitan center. I got up the nerve to approach them.
She was a bit surprised when I came forward and introduced my self in a low voice. "Hello, my name is Ilene." I wish you could have seen the surprise registered on her face. "....my name is Ilene, and may I ask you a question?" Are you a T-Girl?" She was for she instantly knew what I was talking about. Her surprised expression turned to even more surprise and a smile. Before she could answer I explained, "It's OK. I'm a transgender person myself." Again, more surprise on her face because I clearly was not presenting in a femme form. But she smiled, looked at her mate and replied in the positive. "Yes, I am", she nodded.
I told her, "It's OK dear. I'm sorry to put you on the spot. I'm also TG and I just had to let you know how beautiful you are."
She smiled again, and I didn't wish to beleaguer my encounter in the middle of a retail store. I shook her hand (with both hands), thanked her and went on my way.

I don't spot that many TG's or CDs in public. And for the life of me I don't know what possessed me to get "personal" with a stranger. But I had to know; and I had to let her know that she was "OK" and a beautiful person.
But.... would you go up and introduce yourself to someone you thought was TG, or would you admire from a distance and let them go on?

[Charlotte7]

No. This is fraught with so many potential problems, it shouldn't be done. Be happy with what you saw, but respect their privacy.

[Fiona123]

I too would respect their privacy as i hope folks would resoect mine.

[MindiB]

I would have to say no. If anything if I was walking by and made eye contact I would just said hi like I do any other stranger.

[Lana Mae]

I too would respect their privacy! I would not want someone putting me on the spot! IMHO Hugs Lana Mae Well, maybe if it was someone from this forum who I know...?

[MissPaula]

With the huge "bathroom scandal" we've had here in North Carolina where some ciswomen were accused of being transgendered, I'd have to say no I'd never approach anyone and ask. I have complimented women before on their appearance as I do some males, but beyond that, no I wouldn't.

[Jess S.]

Ilene, I understand the urge to be nice and connect with others. Once I was in a some what similar situation and asked others what they thought. But as I found out after a bit of scolding.Guess its best to give privacy.

[Ressie]

No Iilene, I spot CDs every so often and I don't approach them. I had an encounter with one at the grocery store as she was in the exact location I was in and actually I kind of caused her blind friend to fall down. We exchanged words politely, but I didn't mention anything about her being TG.

That said, it sounds like you were quite diplomatic and congenial with your encounter.

[April Rose]

Ilene, I am going to be the contrarian here and say that you did the right thing . The proof is in the result. I understand the reluctance to put another person on the spot, but obviously your instincts were correct, and you were sensitive in the way you approached her. The best friendship I have ever had with another tg spectrum person resulted from my being candid about myself as a crossdresser when we first met.

That being said, I would not recommend it to everyone. It is a sensitive situation, and it requires a delicate touch.

Still, we are a minority, and it takes us courage to live, day by day, and even more courage to connect. But connect we must, if we are to survive and thrive. Bravo to you for having the courage to try.

[Jodie_Lynn]

I am of two minds on this.

On the one hand, I can relate to IleneD's desire to recognize and engage with another CD/TG. There is a visceral comfort in knowing that we aren't alone. That there are others in our area that share our path.

On the other hand though, I cannot help but wonder how the other girl felt about the encounter. Did she feel that her presentation wasn't effective enough? Did she feel uncomfortable that her privacy was invaded? Or was she as thrilled to meet another 'sister' as the OP was? Did the companion of the woman feel the same?

What if IleneD was mistaken? What if the woman was a genetic female and resented the implication that she was less than a woman?

Please note that I am not making a judgement against Ilene, I am simply pointing out the thoughts I would have in that situation. I am not sure, but I think I would have restrained myself and honored the woman's privacy.

[DIANEF]

Personally I wouldn't approach anyone. I have worked in retail a lot and served many obviously trans or CDing customers. Much as I would have liked to say something I chose not to, as honestly when I'm out I would not like any stranger approaching me to talk about being, for want of a better phrase, a little different. Not saying it's right or wrong, just I wouldn't do it.

[ToniG]

Probably best to leave others to have their privacy, unless its a planned mtg or encounter. "Results" could have gone south in a hurry. Especially if there had been any "mockers" nearby in the store.

[Rowan Ailbhe]

I would not be overt. Been in that situation. I tend to be alot warmer and more attentive and polite though...with correct pronouns.

[natalie edwards]

Well that's kinda ballsy! (pun intended)

[melissalynn]

I would not ask the question. I would not rule out a quite smile and nod though.

[Samantha981]

I guess I would only approach if I was also en femme, and then only if I was sure and maybe start with eye contact to sense their nerves. Last year I "think" I saw a CD/TG shopping in a dept. store in the women's clothing area, but just a glance. Was in guy mode and w/ my wife, so no chance I was going to approach in that case. Anyway that is me.

[Rhonda Darling]

Ilene:

I'm reminded of the person at work who walked up to a co-worker he'd not seen in awhile and greeted her with: "You look great. When are you due?". His funeral service was the next day. Her weight gain was none of his business.

The point is, you never know whether you've correctly read the situation.

You were lucky this time.

Rhonda

[Princess Chantal]

Eventhough I wouldn’t approach someone and ask, I have been approached and questioned a few times from those in the transgender community and numerous times from other folks. When I first started going out in public (years 2002/2003) and had the primary focus on blending in, I felt offended. By the middle of 2004 I became proud of my crossdressing and with a smile on my face am (and have been) very welcoming of being approached and questioned. My intentions are not to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes, but to enjoy my crossdressing to it’s fullest.

[LaurenS]

Ilene, I am going to be the contrarian here and say that you did the right thing ...and you were sensitive in the way you approached her.

That being said, I would not recommend it to everyone. It is a sensitive situation, and it requires a delicate touch.

Agree. Don’t think I have the skills to pull this off, and I certainly would not want to make a mistake, but it shows you are a kind, caring, and empathetic human being. Not going to pan what was a beautiful experience for you both, Ilene. Kudos.

[SaraLin]

IleneD, when I read your question, I asked myself how I'd want to be approached if I were out dressed.
The answer was that for me, I would definitely NOT want to be approached and asked that question.
When I'm out, I just want to disappear into the crowd and be just-another-woman. Being spotted as T* anything would be mortifying. It would feel like I had failed to pass/blend in. My head would be screaming "Failure! Bail out before something worse happens! RUN!!!"

For that reason, I'd say that no, I wouldn't do it.

Now, if some stranger walked up to me and told me how much they liked my dress (or something such), and never let on that they thought of me as anything other than female, I'd be floating on cloud nine! I still remember something that happened in my early days, and a man held a door open for me. I don't think my feet touched the ground again for hours. Silly huh?

[alwayshave]

Ilene, I live in the city was a large TG population and I have never approached.

[Rhonda Jean]

I would not.

I can only remember once when someone asked me similarly. I was having lunch at a mall restaurant and a female patron sitting close to me asked, "Do you prefer being addressed as male or female?" I don't remember how I was dressed at the time. If I'd been trying to pass, I probably would have been less than pleased at the question, but I've got a pretty thick skin, so maybe I was. She told me she was a hairdresser at a mall salon and would love to do my hair. I went to her many times after that, following her to a couple of different salons, then lost track of her. She was genuinely nice and genuinely interested, and really liked doing my hair in feminine, sometimes elaborate styles, regardless of how I was presenting. She was one of the very few people who I allowed to see me and know me in male and female modes, I guess because that bridge had already been crossed on our first meeting. Since my answer to her first question was "female", that's the way she always addressed me, even in male mode. She worked at a Regis salon and a Penny's, then a large privately owned salon. They were big salons and always busy, and even if I was in male(ish) mode, she'd always call attention to me by saying to her coworkers something like "Doesn't she look great?" or "Isn't her hair just gorgeous!" In this case, because she asked it led to a positive and better understanding between us. She had a reason for asking, though. I think for a random meeting like you had I think it would be appropriate for you to compliment her, but any mention of the "T" is probably not appropriate.

[deebra]

Ilene, I was in WalMart early one morning dressed feminine in drab and noticed a CD in a skirt looking at women's clothes. Couldn't let this opportunity pass so I walked over to the clothing rack beside her and said something like I'm looking for a blue blouse but just haven't found it in my size, then we made eye contact and the ice was broken. We had a nice conversation but didn't exchange phone numbers. This way they have the choice to be at ease knowing you are both CD's or just ignore. If you ease into it with "class" you just might end up having a new CD friend.

[faltenrock]

I would never ask anyone that question if I spot a CD or TG person. I've seen quite a few other CD and TS during the last few years, but I think it's not the right thing to ask that question - just my opinion.

[Ressie]

Deebra's post reminded me of an experience I had earlier this year. I posted this somewhere before, but it's about a TG/CD I talked to at Goodwill.

At first sighting we were both near the dressing rooms and I was intrigued with her clothes and look. I gotta say I wasn't absolutely sure that she wasn't a GG. One of the SAs let her into a dressing room as they lock them now. Meanwhile I went to the other side of the store and found a couple of tops I wanted to try on. All of the SAs were busy and it turned out that the CD was exiting a booth so I asked if I could slip into the dressing room before the door locked. She said, "I won't tell if you don't".

When I got in the cashier line I just happened to be in line behind her. I talked to her a little more about clothes and sizes, and she had to realize that I was also a CD in male mode. I never asked her any questions about her gender identity, in fact I didn't ask her any questions - just kind of related that I also wear women's cloths. Of course she saw what I tried on and what I was buying too!

[Steph_CD_62]

I would not have approached them and said anything, at most I might have made eye contact.

I worked in a convince store for awhile and there was a person that would come in sometimes as a man and sometimes as a woman. At first I thought that they were a crossdresser like myself, but I didn't want to make him/her feel uncomfortable. I treated this person the same no matter how they came in dressed. I found out later that he was a MtF from a co-worker that knew him and his ex-wife.

[IleneD]

This is one of the reasons I so love being a member of this forum.
The consensus group has a great way of gently and nicely setting me straight. You've verified my own suspicions that I exceeded normal limits. It's why I asked the question

So, the answer next time is "curb my enthusiasm". In my eagerness to reach out and connect with another soul who shares my life situation [ or at least one with whom I am sympathetic], I over-stepped. I thought by approaching her and telling her she was beautiful, I could affirm her sense of being. Wrong.

One member commented that by approaching her, I "blew her cover". Rather than affirming her, I probably horrified her that she didn't PASS and somehow stood out as a TG. For that, Lord, forgive me.

In the old movie, "The Sting" (R. Redford, P. Newman), the cast of people who were in on the sting, the plan, had a method to silently inform each other that they were part of the game. I believe they used a finger swipe alongside their nose to give the signal to others "I am one of you." I wish the CD/TG world had such an unofficial silent signal by which we could (silently) show others that we are with them; we are one of them, or we are sympathetic and understand.

Again, thank you all the for comments. This forum is great for my Learning Curve, and I value every input.

[Tracii G]

Most likely no for me but I have been approached and asked questions by GGs and was not bothered by their questions.
If another TG approached me I would not be upset at all.
I was at WalMart yesterday browsing the ladies dept in 50/50 mode and saw an employee that I am sure was TG because he was wearing his hair in a pony tail on top of his head and had light make up on.
He looked at me and smiled so I smiled back and moved on down the rack for something in my size.
Neither of us made personal contact just a smile and I am sure he knew we were both TG.

[Stephanie47]

As a general rule which is applied to all people if I make eye contact I will nod or just say "good morning." I would have said the same to the transgender person you saw. There has to more of a connection before I invade someone else's privacy.

[Kayliedaskope]

In the old movie, "The Sting" (R. Redford, P. Newman), the cast of people who were in on the sting, the plan, had a method to silently inform each other that they were part of the game. I believe they used a finger swipe alongside their nose to give the signal to others "I am one of you." I wish the CD/TG world had such an unofficial silent signal by which we could (silently) show others that we are with them; we are one of them, or we are sympathetic and understand.

We could blow silent kisses at each other!!!

No, wait .....



Seriously, though, it all depends on how people are approached. Some will be okay, others will get defensive because you've intruded on their personal space. Personally, I wouldn't have asked "That Question," but I may have politely complimented her on her jewelry, or that particular color of her dress matched her eyes, or something nice. A compliment to someone is never a bad way to open a conversation.

I used to work retail many moons ago, and I remember this one customer had come in: pale porcelain skin, light cat-eye makeup, flaming red hair just past the shoulders, and the most drop-dead gorgeous green eyes I'd ever seen, all wrapped in a nice dress, slim leather jacket, and heels - not goth, but definitely wow. I was stocking merchandise in the area and wasn't trying to be too obvious, but she knew I was looking. Finally, she asked, "is there a problem?" Oops ... busted. Since I had nothing left to lose at that point, I screwed up my courage and replied, "yes ... the problem is that you have such beautiful eyes that I'm having a difficult time not staring at them. Please forgive me." I was rewarded with a big smile and after a few minutes of conversation, an invitation to help her find the rest of the items on her list. It was a good day ...

[Pat]

So, Ilene -- I hope you got all that. You should; you shouldn't; it's probably OK; it's probably not. Let that be your guide for next time. ;) In the end, you did what you did and the world didn't end. I think we have to trust you to read the situation and make the right choice.

[Linda P.]

"In my eagerness to reach out and connect with another soul who shares my life situation."
And that is something I think we can all relate to and sympathise with.

[Rachael Leigh]

I think to come right out and ask is not protocol for sure, I think my approach would just be enguage them in casual
conversation, maybe a nice complement on clothes or most anything but to ask outright unless it’s brought up by them then
no probably not

[Ressie]

I wish the CD/TG world had such an unofficial silent signal by which we could (silently) show others that we are with them

Always keep at least one pic of your en femme self on your phone. Just in case you wanna show someone, "that's me"!

[docrobbysherry]

In drab? Not in a million years!:thumbsdn:
And, telling anyone but a GG that she looks pretty, in a vanilla venue, when I'm in drab and could embarrass the heck out of them and me, isn't going to happen!:doh:

Dressed? Maybe. Depending on where and when. In a vanilla retail store? When dressed, I avoid places like that like the plague!:straightface:

[Emily Myers]

No! Always let someone tell you when they are comfortable with doing so.

[Sarah Doepner]

While it's wonderful to pretend I can move about in public and be accepted as a woman, I know for a fact that it's beyond my skill level, pay grade and physical make up. So if today I were approached and treated with politeness and respect, I'd probably be pleased to interact with others. In fact, I'm astonished it's not happened to me. When I first started going out that kind of contact would have had me running back to my room for a long cry, but now my skin has grown considerably thicker and resistant to damage. Over the years I've been mis-gendered by sales people and others when I've been engaged in conversations that had both TG and Cis participants. One time in a crowded and loud casino I was approached by a man who gently took my hands in his and looked at me. Neither one of us said a word, he nodded, dropped my hands and went on his way. (I should have leaned in, said "Room 2347, in an hour." and left but didn't.) Every encounter is a unique experience and needs it's own response.

I have seen TG folk in the wild and tend to resist the urge to make contact, particularly when I'm in guy mode. Looking back on my first trips out I would have been terribly upset with an unexpected contact, now I'd be fine. Since we can't tell where in a person's journey they are, even if we know what that journey might be, it's probably best to let it go with a smile, a nod and just maybe "I really like your shoes.", but probably not even that.

[IleneD]

Sarah,
You reminded me of mis-gendering.
I too am beginning to hear and see some of it. Happened twice last week when I spent the entire week, 24/7, en femme (alone at home and going out; wife out of town). The one in the liquor store really got my goat because there was a line of people close to and behind me that heard it too (and I was dressed en femme, and somewhat passable). Someone in line behind me giggled when they heard the clerk "sir" me.
Damn.

- - - Updated - - -

Ressie;
I actually like that idea. Good thinking.

- - - Updated - - -

Love ya' , Pat. Love your experience and wisdom. You can actually see through bullshit.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Regardless of whether some people think its ok, its not ok.

you outed her, and walked away.
you did it for your own purposes, not her's. and btw its her, not "her"
regardless of her man hands and "tell tale stubble".. really?

it was selfish and rude, and i hope you can see that in hindsight.
you imposed your will on this woman...she had no choice in the matter
more likely than not, her (not "her") politeness masked her true feelings about your intrusion on her day..

Sorry to be so harsh..Im no miss manners, but above all else i respect the privacy of trans people regardless of where they are on the spectrum
for all you know, you devastated her... and because you cant know you didnt, you have to respect her space...

i know some folks dont feel this way, thats a shame and its selfish... I think some trans people like to be looked at and noticed...no worries, that works too, but then it would be obvious they want to be approached...and it doesnt work the other away .....nothing about her said she wanted to be approached other than you clocking her as a trans woman..

basically you said "hi dear, i wanted you to know you are really pretty, but you dont pass"
In what world is that a thoughful and considerate thing to do??

=======

added

i just talked to my daughters close friend, a young trans girl...she was floored... she said basically if some creepy old guy came up to me and asked me if i was trans, i would smile because that's what you do when men approach and enter your private space...from fear, from feeling harrassed, from having no choice....no different than a catcall or dog whistle from a construction worker...ive been there...you need to know that's how you were likely perceived

she was in disbelief about this story and upon reading it she noted the presumption that I noticed as well... that you used the term "she" instead of she, and that you presumed that because you have a femme name that somehow its ok to "creep out on her" as she called it... she said she would have gone to her car shaking.....wondering if you were lurking around somewhere.

my dad might say to all this, dont be such a snowflake!! part of me agrees, but the main part of me wants you to know thats the risk you are taking , that's how you really could make somebody feel...not ok..its not dress up and fun for many of us out there...

[Jeri Ann]

I am afraid that I have to agree with Kaitlyn. Much of the time I pass now. If I don't I really don't give a flip but, I do not want my being trans to be addressed by a complete stranger. I do the best I can in the real world doing life as my true self. If someone came up to me and commented on my being trans it would ruin my day.

Three days ago I had a situation where I fully disclosed but it was my choice. I needed to purchase a new car and my I.D. has not been changed yet. After I set the stage then every thing was cool from then on. The rest of my time at the dealership I was correctly gendered, treated like a lady and used the women's restroom three times (don't tell governor Abbott).

Tomorrow I go to get my drivers license changed. I expect some awkwardness but I am willing to do what I need to do. After that I am getting a photo made to renew my passport that expires in six days. These situations are obstacles that I need to push through in my own way. If you see me in Target, please leave me alone or just treat me like any other woman.

[Mirya]

It's interesting, and even a little bit amusing to me, to see the differences in perspectives between the CDs, TS's, and NBs on this topic. As a TS myself, I fully agree with Kaitlyn. And I'm sure if the woman in the story was also a TS, she would also have been creeped out and shaken by being approached like that. But if she was a CD, maybe she would have been more likely to be ok with it? I don't know. The thing is, you didn't know if this woman was a CD, TG, TS, or whatever other gender identity on the trans spectrum.

By the way, what you did was a very 'manly' thing to do - Kaitlyn said it perfectly when she said that you were 'imposing your will on that woman'. If you identify as a man, then I get it, it's who you are and that's how men generally behave. But if you're not a man, or want to present a more feminine image while en femme or en drab, then I urge you to be more respectful of other people and their private space. When women approach others, it's not about their own purposes, but usually about helping the other person and possibly form a helpful relationship. But what you did was just approach her, invade her space, out her as trans, and then just walk away. Ugh.

Please don't do that again. If you want to make TG friends, then please do so in an openly trans event, such as at a local support group meeting or a national trans convention.

[Jean 103]

Simply no , I wouldn't do that.

But people come up to me all the time. I don't mind.

I live in a small town, being out, people do talk about me. I get feedback from me friends, mostly good.

[IleneD]

Thank you, Mirya.
A very real and understanding perspective I should have considered and known. Like I said, this was a lesson learned.
The "man" thing to do. Don't fully know if it was imposing my will upon her. Perhaps curiosity killed my cat. But your point about my 'manliness' showing through is interesting and I shall consider it.

[BrendaPDX]

Hi Ilene, I can tell you are very observant and have your hart in the right place. If you had approached me I would have been terrified and probably not heard a word you said, only waiting for my opportunity to get the he!! out of there. But I have been complemented on my skirt and that was ok, so now I am not sure. You got an ear full so I am not going to push it. Thank you for sharing, Brenda

[Tina_gm]

I can't add much to what the others have said. Whenever I feel (not gender specific, just in general) should I or shouldn't I, I have learned to 1st think, how would I feel. That may not always be the correct answer, but it is more often then not. If there comes a day when I am out among the muggles, for me, it would be about blending in and not ever being noticed. I would want simply to be just any regular woman going about her business without anyone paying attention to me, other than to what I am doing, not who I am or how I look like. Definitely though you do sometimes see those who are out and want to be noticed for who they are. That is fine for them and generally it will become quite obvious that that is their motive. When you don't know, I think chances are likely that wherever they are on the spectrum, a cross dresser enjoying a simple excursion or someone who is now living authentically as the woman they are inside, or have become through transition or in the process of, It is more likely than not I am assuming that they just want to be that woman. It is among the main reasons why I do not go out in public because I cannot now at this time be that woman who isn't noticed for being TG. That is my own personal issue, and has nothing to do with how I feel about others going out. I have no issue at all with others going out all the while they are being noticed for being a TG person. I do want to make that as clear as possible. It is my issue and my issue alone, and has no bearing on what anyone else does.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

overall...

its not about you..
its about the other person..

thinking and prioritizing about what the other person may feel is subtly different than the golden rule, which is a very good rule but in this case doesn't work well...
men have trouble with understanding how women feel, its time eternal, and its not anybody's fault...its nature

by trying so hard to express your femme side to a woman that way, you actually expressed your male side...

I'm glad you are willing to engage in a conversation that highlights your good intentions..I know you didn't mean to hurt anybody

[Aunt Kelly]

I understand the temptation. I really do. For some reason, the supermarkets I frequent in my conservative suburban community have more TG women per capita than in Houston proper, so I am frequently tempted to go beyond a sincere smile, the kind one might give any stranger upon making eye contact. I don't, because any more than that can be misread in a number of different ways, few of them pleasant for the other person. So put me in the "do not engage" camp.
There a lots of places where one can engage TG people that are entirely appropriate. This forum is a good start, but support groups, organized girls nights out, etc. are also options. Again, the temptation, no the need is real for many of us, so find an appropriate means to fulfill it.