TSA Encounter

[IleneD]

I had a disturbing encounter last week.

I was flying back to Colorado after visiting the east coast, entering the air travel system via a smaller regional airport. I very much wanted to Fly Pretty, and have done so in the past with no problems or security issues. I was traveling with The Wife, but I wore a light bra-lette and a matching camisole under my Guy Sweater.

There's hardly any metal in it at all; small clasps. So it must have been the shape of it ON my body in the microwave imaging device that was the trigger. The machine operator told another TSA agent as I exited to check my back. I got a front and back pat down.

I'm standing with my hands over my head, facing the agent as he felt up and down my flanks. Then he stopped..... with his hands on my breasts, literally cupping my breasts in each hand. He looks at me without a word, and I looked him in the eye and said, "Yes, I'm wearing a bra."

I walked away without further comment or making a scene. I didn't lodge a complaint. I've certainly experienced worse treatment from TSA (in drab). Yet, I was still flabbergasted at the impolite "touching". They would never do that to a GG would they?

Have a good Christmas. If I get over my cold (acquired during travel, of course), I still have a bit of shopping to do and I wish to do it as Ilene. Peace.

[Rowan Ailbhe]

yeah....been there...every time I have flown in a kilt....every....single.....time.

I detest the TSA on a molecular level.

[Jennaristow]

Sounds like to me you where traveling in guy mode with the female attire hidden underneath.
If that's the case, TSA will treat you as a man as that is your outward presentation.
I think people are too quick to blame TSA or other organizations sometimes.
If you where fully dressed, and presenting as a female. I would agree with you.

[Robertacd]

Yep I have to agree with Jenn.

If you were presenting as female they would have made allowances for things like bra clasps, underwires, metal boning, garter hooks, and etc. just like they would for a GG.

I bet your wife was wearing a bra and she didn'd get a pat down because of it.

[Pat]

In the scanner, they have to ID you as male or female based on your appearance. That will certainly trigger an "anomaly" if you're wearing a bra. As you exit the scanner you can tell the officer you're transgender and ask for a female to do the pat-down if that would make you more comfortable. They should comply without a murmur (they've been trained on this.) If there's any back-chat, ask for a supervisor. However, they *do* have to pat you down -- they have no option when an anomaly has been detected.

If you fly often, consider joining the TSA Pre-check program. In every airport I've been to, that lets you bypass the scanner and just walk through a simple metal detector, which won't react to a bra.

[Leslie Langford]

I'm with the others here, Ilene.

I agree that this intrusion into your personal space might have been upsetting momentarily, but look at it from the TSA agent's perspective. It is not a common event for a man to be wearing a bra, and for all the TSA agent knew, you might have been wearing some variation of an explosives-carrying vest of the type often favored by terrorists. I would focus more on the fact that he let you go without any further comment once you confirmed that you were wearing a bra.

Consider yourself lucky here. If the TSA agent had really wanted to be an a**hole about the whole thing, he could just as easily have sent you for a full body cavity search as a follow up procedure. ;).

IMHO, what counts for most in this awkward encounter is what "The Wife's" reaction to this "patting" incident was. Mortification, disgust, "serves you right; I told you so", or some variation thereof?

[michelleddg]

What Leslie said. Hugs, Michelle

[DIANEF]

Sorry Ilene but having worked at an airport (and my son still does) if a TSA finds anything unusual he-she has to investigate. The fact that you are an utterly respectable member of society counts for little when the potential threat of nefarious activity, however small, cannot be overlooked. (I didn't work on security in any way, but did liaise closely with those who did)

[char GG]

Yes, GG's get the same scrutiny and yes, if something was odd with a GG, there would be "impolite touching". Old ladies in wheel chairs, small children with sippy cups, men and women with metal rods in their legs, everyone gets examined, sometimes on a personal level. At least they didn't take you in the back room. No one should feel entitled going through TSA. I am glad they are strict with their assessments and I always thank TSA for what they do. I appreciate that they try to keep thousands of people a day going their their lines safe.

[Meghan4now]

Hmm, did he seem to "enjoy" copping a feel?

If not then it's not so much of a #metoo moment.

[CynthiaD]

I've been patted down several times wearing a bra under male clothing. Never a comment in either direction.

[Gillian Gigs]

Oh the joy of getting groped for the sake of national security. Other than complaining to a superior, there is not much that can be done. I guess you now know what it feels like to be a woman and get groped by some pervert! Maintain your dignity and move on, I know someone who was strip searched and detained for 3 hours, there only reason for stopping them was they were young,and a frequent flyer between Canada and Los Angeles.

[Anne K]

I go through the handicap line and get the complete pat down. They are just doing their job. In your case, his technique is interesting. Next time, ask him what size he thinks you are. Don't forget to smile!

[Teresa]

Ilene,
I can understand the body search, what would you have done in his shoes, he didn't have a choice, the bra on a guy could have been something more sinister, we all know it doesn't take much to knock a hole in a plane . I suppose the choice is travel in drab or travel dressed but don't mix it , to many underdressing makes very little sense , if you're a man dress as one , if you're a woman or a TS dress as one .

[Donna St. Marten]

Don't understand why you are so upset. From what you said, it sounds like the TSA agent behaved in a professional manner.

[Kayliedaskope]

You may have just very quietly mentioned BEFORE he started his patdown that you were wearing a bra, too. As uncomfortable as it may have been for you, these people ARE doing their jobs to make sure that you, your wife, and everyone else on the plane is safe. (Just for the record, my SO is one of those people with metal in her hips - this happens on a fairly regular basis despite her medical card.)

Good job on owning it, though.

[Stephanie47]

Really, what do you expect from a person charged with airport security when he encounters a person presenting as a male and detects metal where he would not expect it or perhaps in the shape expected. No, he probably would not have given a woman a more thorough inspection because he would have called for a female TSA agent to do the inspection. And, it would have been a routine metal image for a woman. Personally, I would not have expected less from the TSA agent.

[Rowan Ailbhe]

Dara Hoffman Fox has a video on youtube about her TSA encounter....it is worth a listen

[Genifer Teal]

I remember when I was getting a pat down by this women she was a little bit concerned about two areas, you think? Anyway she turns to her Superior and says should we get someone else and raise this to a higher level? so he looks at her and says, we could do that but what do you reasonably think is going on here? and with that she waved me on I thought that was a great answer.

[IleneD]

Oh I understand the consensus of the forum; that TSA was just doing their job. It never occurred to me that a soft bra would show up on imaging, but ..... what the heck.

The strangest part of the experience was standing with my hands over my head in a surrender position; the TSA cupping my "boobs" with both hands, and us staring eye to eye. In public.
I don't often find myself there.

[Jodie_Lynn]

And when the TSA agent detected an anomaly with his hands and looked in your eyes, his first thought wasn't "Oh, he's a crossdresser".

It was probably more along the lines of "Ohh shyte......." thinking he had a situation on hand. Absolutely NO pun intended. And I can tell you from personal experience, when you are doing a pat down and find something irregular, your heartrate tends to climb very quickly, and you wonder if you remembered to tell your wife you loved her before you went to work.

[Aunt Kelly]

I detest the Theatrical Security Administration, because it truly is little more than theater (given their track record of detecting threats), but this does sound like a win for them. In general, anomalies are what the agents are trained to look for and their technology is tuned to detect. A male wearing a bra is certainly anomalous. Their system caught it, the agent followed procedure and stopped to observe your reaction at the point his pat down confirmed that something was off. It seems to me that your response, Ilene, was about the best one you could have made at that point.

I am still fuming from some genuine TSA harassment which I experienced a few weeks ago. They went through my checked luggage. Nothing wrong with that. We all get it once in a while. The contents of my bag made it obvious that they belonged to a TG person (boy and girl clothes, forms, wig, etc.). When they went through my cosmetics bag, they opened several things and then threw them back in without closing them. Given that one of those items was a container of Bare Minerals, the bag, brushes, and several other items were ruined. This is exactly the type of behavior one can expect from low wage workers given a position of responsibility that exceeds their often meager grasp of common social mores. You know, thugs.

[alwayshave]

While I don't fly pretty, I always fly pre-check so that I just go through the magnetometer and don't get scanned or have to take my shoes off.

[Robertacd]

What airports let pre-checks go through without scanning?

We flew to Las Vegas last year and were pre-checked both ways.

All that got us was a much shorter security line to wait in, but we still had take off our shoes and go through the scanner just like everyone else at both airports.

[Krisi]

.......... This is exactly the type of behavior one can expect from low wage workers given a position of responsibility that exceeds their often meager grasp of common social mores. You know, thugs.

That's a bit harsh, don't you think?

These people have a job to do and they have been trained to do it. It's unfortunate, but there are people in this world willing to die in order to kill others who don't believe as they do. Or just to make a point.

Would you want to be the TSA agent who was lax and let the person through who blew up a plane and killed 200 people?

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What airports let pre-checks go through without scanning?

We flew to Las Vegas last year and were pre-checked both ways.

All that got us was a much shorter security line to wait in, but we still had take off our shoes to go through the scanner just like everyone else at both airports.

I don't fly often but for some reason, the last time my wife and I flew we were "pre screened" and didn't have to take off our shoes. We did go through a scanner and so did our carry on luggage.

[Kayliedaskope]

This is exactly the type of behavior one can expect from low wage workers given a position of responsibility that exceeds their often meager grasp of common social mores. You know, thugs.

Whoa, girl, back up there. I have no real love for the TSA either, but they are doing THEIR jobs, which is making absolutely sure that everyone on the plane is safe. Are you sure it was done out of malice, or could it have been a mistake? These people get more harassment than trans or CD or anyone does (well, maybe excepting the IRS) by having to deal with the public on a daily basis and putting up with all sorts of crap from travelers. Before you judge them, walk a mile in their heels and see what it's like from their side.

If we wanted to talk about thugs in positions of power, this could very easily turn into a political discussion/argument/cat fight, so we won't go there ....

[tifftg]

I fly a lot, sadly not yet pretty--on my bucket list. I have TSA Precheck. What that means is I don't have to take my shoes and belt off and almost always go thru a magnetometer. The key word is "almost" as every once in a while I get randomly selected to go thru the scan. If I were underdressed with a bra it might show up as not right for male profile and be patted down. I have often worn panties and tights while flying this has never been an issue.

[docrobbysherry]

While most TSA agents r made aware of trans and how to treat us, they may have no clue why we mite underdress. (They aren't the only ones!):straightface:

He simply concluded u may be hiding something. And, he was rite!:heehee:

If u had been dressed, they would have most likely had a woman check u out.:battingeyelashes:

[Jennaristow]

That is what's wrong with many. They think that all trades and professions are customer service.
They ARE NOT customer service. They are their for security purposes only. Do not think they work for you. They have a job to do and usually do it well.

[Heidi Stevens]

It’s interesting that you got singled out like that, especially since you had no forms on. Other than a possible sharp weapon in the form of an underwire, where’s the danger? This guy must be a newbie or a real Barney Fife trying out his new found powers. Hope this episode educated both of you.
As for flying pretty, I will be going for the first time in 45 days. My plan is to dress simple and be who I am. Already a TSA registered flier, so I’m planning for no hick ups and call for a matron if they decide to get touchy-feely.

[Ineke Vashon]

You never know. Perhaps the TSA man secretly was a crossdresser and was just trying to "communicate":battingeyelashes:

Ineke

[Krisi]

I wonder how many people a TSA agent has to deal with in a single day, day after day and how many are nasty and how many thank them for their service. It doesn't seem like a dream job to me.

I think the folks who are angry with TSA agents and security procedures at airports would do well to redirect their anger towards the people who make it necessary to have security agents and procedures at airports in the first place.

50 years ago you just walked up to the gate, showed them your ticket and walked onto the plane. Think about it.

[Vale]

Sometimes you just have to laugh at the absurdity. I travel drab but have 2 metal hip joints. The metal detectors scream at me. The scanner shows anomalies at the crotch. When the agents see the scanner screen showing where they have to check most grimace but a few smile. They ask if I want a private screening and I say no thanks, just get it done.

[Robertacd]

Heidi, Irene was singled out for a pat down because she was presenting as male but wearing a bra and her bra claps show up in the scanner.

The same thing has happened to me (https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?248045-Traveling-by-air-Yes-the-Backscatter-X-ray-can-see-your-bra&highlight=airport), (TSA agent said "There was an alarm on your back") but my wife ahead of me who of course was also wearing a bra did not get an alarm.

If she was presenting as female they would have probably made the same allowances. So if you are going to "fly pretty", then go all the way and you should have no problems.

[LindaAnne]

I actually had a relatively good encounter with the TSA while underdressing. I was going to be on a long flight flying from the east to west coast for work and (although planning to dress en femme once I got to my hotel) wanted to enjoy my new matching panties and bralette while on the plane. I was presenting as a man and thus when I went through the "scanner" (the new things) I was motioned to step out of line to answer some questions. I looked at the "x-ray" (muted image of my body) and could see it had picked up the minuscule metal clasp on my bralette strap. As I was presenting as a man, a male agent was assigned to me. Since I already had an idea why I had been asked to step out of line I decided to get ahead of this and I leaned over and whispered to the agent "I'm wearing a bra." I was pleasantly surprised by his answer. In a quiet voice he said "cool, I now understand, but please excuse me I will need to pat down your back." I nodded and all he did was pat my back where the bra straps were and he said "enjoy your day" and was allowed to proceed. While I appreciate there are lots of not-so-great stories out there, I did want to share this one.

[IleneD]

Linda Anne,
Great story and a learning experience for us all. Thanks.

[Vickie_CDTV]

He was doing his job, he could have lost his job if he hasn't investigated. As the old saying goes, don't hate the players, hate the game. Hate the people who make this necessary.

[Aunt Kelly]

That's a bit harsh, don't you think?

I do not, for reasons I have already stated; that by any credible metrics, the TSA is ineffective. The reasons for this are several and various, and beyond the scope of discussion on this forum. More to the point though, I have on several occasions seen agents display an over-inflated sense of self importance and quickly turn into authoritarian assholes with no provocation. To be sure, those are the exceptions, but they are the predictable sequelae when someone ill-equipped to handle such authority is given it. We can blame many things, like poor training, the frustration of a difficult job that pays barely above minimum wage, etc., but it is as inexcusable as it is predictable.

[Karen's Secret]

I see nothing wrong with what the TSA agent did. Their job is to find hidden items and you showed on the scanner that you had something strapped around your chest.

[Krisi]

Sometimes you just have to laugh at the absurdity. I travel drab but have 2 metal hip joints. The metal detectors scream at me. The scanner shows anomalies at the crotch. When the agents see the scanner screen showing where they have to check most grimace but a few smile. They ask if I want a private screening and I say no thanks, just get it done.

It's not at all absurd. You could be carrying weapons or explosives.

You should be able to get a card from your doctor or surgeon stating that you have metal hip implants. Show it to the agent. That's what my wife does.

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I do not, for reasons I have already stated; that by any credible metrics, the TSA is ineffective. The reasons for this are several and various, and beyond the scope of discussion on this forum. More to the point though, I have on several occasions seen agents display an over-inflated sense of self importance and quickly turn into authoritarian assholes with no provocation. To be sure, those are the exceptions, but they are the predictable sequelae when someone ill-equipped to handle such authority is given it. We can blame many things, like poor training, the frustration of a difficult job that pays barely above minimum wage, etc., but it is as inexcusable as it is predictable.

Well, perhaps you should take the bus.

In life, we are usually treated the way we treat others. If you display a bad attitude towards someone in authority, it's likely that they will have a bad attitude towards you. These people have a job to do and they are required to screen hundreds of people each day, day after day. Big people, small people, nice people and people with bad attitudes who have the need to feel superior to other people.

I seriously doubt that any "thugs" would even take the job, much less last more than a day or two.

[vicky_cd99_2]

The TSA like cops for the most part are very cool. Every once in a while you get an authoritarian ass. Someone who doesn't get to hold the remote at home so they take it out on others... That is the nature of humans in a position of power. And they have a power over your traveling.

[Pat]

More to the point though, I have on several occasions seen agents display an over-inflated sense of self importance and quickly turn into authoritarian assholes with no provocation.

Honestly, I've seen the same behavior in travelers confronting a TSA agent. The world is a varied place. It seems to me that Krisi's dictum to treat others the way you would like to be treated is the best approach. I've never had a problem with a TSA agent nor have I ever created a problem for a TSA agent. ;)

[abby054]

I seriously doubt that any "thugs" would even take the job, much less last more than a day or two.

I strongly disagree. There are lazy thugs in the TSA. They may not be in the majority, but they are there. I met three of them at DCA last April. Their motivation was clearly laziness and they used thuggery to get the point across. The first one was female. When I opted out, she pushed me off to the side and waited until I would finally get tired of the game and go through the naked passenger scanner rather than miss my flight. A half hour later, I got tired of her waiting game and started to stand in traffic. She scolded and scolded but I had a flight to catch. When she realized that I was going to fight back passively, she then summoned the second thug, a man who dragged me into a filthy broom closet and sexually assaulted me. When I filed a complaint formally, I met the third thug two weeks later. She was an investigator who told me, "That us how we do things here. Get used to it!"

In June, I met a TSA thug at GEG who did a smackdown instead of a pat down. He punched me in the groin intentionally because I asked to opt out of the scanner. He did it right in front of a supervisor who approved of it. (I have on old army injury that makes the naked passenger scanner impractical.).

I have had cops on the TSA line tell me, "Thanks for keeping your cool. They (the TSA) are a problem for us." One cop added, "We had someone else who they did some petty stuff to. She threw her shoes in the inspector's face. We had to break it up and take her downtown."

It is well documented that the FBI broke up a ring of TSA inspectors who were sexually preying on male passengers at DEN awhile ago.

The TSA gets paid a lot more than minimum wage. Before they successfully lobbied Congress in 2003 to get civil service status, they were airline or airport employees hired at will and rather low paid. They now have public employees' union membership and federal union pay scale. With public employees' job security protections, it is not easy to get rid of the bad apples. I have fired bad federal employees in my day jobs, but it takes time and some serious hard work to do so.

So, no, I strongly disagree. There are thugs and lazy jerks on a power trip in the TSA. They do last more than a day or two.

[Aunt Kelly]

That's very true, Pat. LEO's refer to it as failing the attitude test. At that point, the subject gets just about zero slack. Most of the time that's perfectly appropriate, IMO. But what I am talking about are times like the one (for example) where I was pulled out of line for some reason that escapes me now and asked to do something (also escaping me now). I did not understand the request, and responded that I did not understand. Agent Thug immediately puffed himself up, stepped into my space and asked in an overly aggressive tone, "Are you refusing to comply?" It was a completely inappropriate response to a simple and honest question. Maybe he's already spent 7.5 of his 8 hour day doing the same mindless routine and was a little frustrated by the stupid passenger. I get that, but in no way does that excuse his behavior. My point is that a certain amount of such behavior (and like that of the agent who vandalized my luggage) is predictable, given the pool they're hired from and the clearly inadequate training they receive.