Maybe why many men dress as women

[Jenny22]

In 2014, this was put in in the 'helpful links' sticky for TS people. For those of you who have wives or SOs that have a hard time accepting your dressing, you may suggest that she read it. It could change her whole outlook.

http://avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

[Alisonforme]

With the abstract using terms like “disorder” and “treatment” I feel offended and don’t care to read any more. I’m
not disordered and in need of treatment. I feel personally affronted that a PhD professional, who has influence over how minoriies are treated and referenced in the english lexicon, can demean us in such a way.

[NancySue]

Well said, Allison. Couldn’t agree more.

[Lana Mae]

This was written in 2001/2003 and is reflective of the time! If you would read the whole thing in that context and not be so thin skinned you might be able to sift out some truths in the article! No, I did not agree with everything he wrote! Hugs Lana Mae

[Lizzie Skirts]

I thought it was a good read. Allison & Nancy - I understand your frustration, but I thought it shed a lot of light on my particular situation regardless of terminology.

[Alisonforme]

Lana Mae and Lizzie, because you found positives in the article and I may have rushed to judgement, I tucked my thin skin, put on my big girl panties gave it a read.

There were many comments of interest because the author had accurate insights on the behavior in our community. And if anyone found this article helpful in finding more peace and self-acceptance then I am truly glad for all it helped. I see how it may offer hope, better understanding, and guidance for anyone trapped in the wrong body.

I tried to get past the language used, Lizzie. But language is SO important in how it paints images, especially of minorities and how society en masse should treat minorities. It may be a 15 year old report, but I don’t excuse an alleged expert for marginalizing the subjects of their study as having this new “disorder that I named” instead of the disorder they named it. My history of reading psychological dissertations leads me to believe that most authors seek primarily to advance their own name. This article doesn't change my perception.

The author points out that HRT has a great track record for “treating” gender dysphoria (or at least treating the anxiety caused by the “disorder”). By the definitions of the article, I have mild to moderate dysphoria. I am glad that those with a stronger sense have a path that hopefully helps them.

My opinions are those of someone who crossdresses and does not feel the need to live as a woman. At least, I have never had that feeling and I don’t expect to, however much I do love and accept my feminine attributes and desires.

I’m sorry if my initial reaction may have steered anyone who may have been helped away from the article. That said, read it with the knowledge that you are not lesser than anyone and you deserve the right to walk your own path. And you also deserve all the help you need to walk it. Just my opinion.

[Becky Blue]

Although its quite old I did find the article very interesting, I particularly found the stages of life very helpful. Thanks for linking the article Jenny.

[Allisa]

Interesting read. I could relate to some aspects in the "stages" as listed but reinforces my knowledge that I am not TS or that I have any "disorder". I have accepted my lot in life and how or why I'm who I am is no longer a need to play the blame game. Hopefully the understanding of the human condition grows as we become more main stream in society.

[Rachelakld]

my girlfriend has "gender dysphoria", very upsetting what she goes through.
As for me , I'm just crazy and loving it :)

[ChristinaK]

My skin is not too thin and I felt like this research was my biography. Wow, this gave me much needed insight into how I have conducted my entire life.

I sent the link to my very hostile wife in the most likely vain hope that she will understand me better and why at this late stage of life I feel compelled to address the feminine side of me I have denied for so long. It makes me want to have a good cry, but I'm so conditioned to be the man I never really wanted to be that I'm emotionally not able to.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you so much Jenny, I cannot wait to show this to my therapists.

[Beverley Sims]

Jenny,

Yet another theory on why we are like we are.

It made a good read and if you had not brought it up for discussion here I may never have read it.

For me all it does is add to the confusion, Ido not have any specific views, I just get on and enjoy life as it is put in front of me.

The paper looks like a thesis for a higher grade of learning at a university.

I give it a B+. :-)

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Pretty much any human activity beyond eating, seeking shelter and reproducing could be labelled a disorder- it all depends on your perspective. I think people who spend hours on social media and get all upset if they don't get many Likes have a disorder- but that's just me. I think people who spend their lives worrying what their neighbours might think of them have a disorder- again, that's just me. Society is run along conservative lines because we have overwhelming common needs, therefore anyone who sticks out from the herd is considered to have a 'disorder' and is viewed with suspicion. We are governed by a culture of fear. It explains everything.

[Isabella Ross]

Fascinating read. Definitely provides some insights, and some confirmation that others experienced some of the same things I have throughout the various life stages. The paper falls down a little because it makes several sweeping generalizations. For example, it's true that I was really into sports in adolescence. But I wasn't forcing myself to be that way in order to suppress my GID; I truly enjoyed playing hard core sports and still do. And although the author acknowledges that gender is on a spectrum, she fails to honor that fact as the paper progresses. For example, she seems to imply that transitioning is the only resolution to ease anxiety, when in fact for many of us, there is no desire to transition, and simply being able to acknowledge and accept ourselves, and having greater freedom to express our femininity, serves to release anxiety and give us newfound happiness as we age.

[Julia1984]

An interesting read. Somewhat anachronistic and rather odd that the author only had one example from the "middle aged" cohort, given the preponderance of late bloomers (myself included) who find their way to this self selecting forum.
I quite like the idea of the proposed taxonomy, though I agree that "treatment" presupposes some underlying disorder, with which i don't agree at all.
Thanks for finding this.
J

[Nikki.]

Anne Vitale transitioned 40 years ago, earned her ph’d around the same time in psychology and has been a gender therapist for 35+ years. She does not pitch transition as the cure all for everyone with gender identity issues. While some of the language has evolved since she wrote that paper, I found it to be incredibly insightful to my issues.

[Ressie]

So I feel that I'm deprived of expressing my gender? I can relate. But, I'm a male too, in fact mostly male. This is kind of like the attributes of horoscope sun signs. Yeah, that Taurus attribute sounds like me!

I see things in both group 1 and group 3 that I relate to, but mostly I would be in group 3. Maybe I'm not in either group!

Comments form Isabella and Nikkilovesdresses and others above are interesting. The study does generalize, which it almost has to I guess.

[Krisi]

Remember, this is the Internet and anybody can be whoever or whatever they want to be on the Internet. This includes psychiatrists and such. And "news reporters".

[Happygirl!]

Pretty much any human activity beyond eating, seeking shelter and reproducing could be labelled a disorder- it all depends on your perspective. I think people who spend hours on social media and get all upset if they don't get many Likes have a disorder- but that's just me. I think people who spend their lives worrying what their neighbours might think of them have a disorder- again, that's just me. Society is run along conservative lines because we have overwhelming common needs, therefore anyone who sticks out from the herd is considered to have a 'disorder' and is viewed with suspicion. We are governed by a culture of fear. It explains everything.

Agree. And to go one step further, I extrapolate from sociobiologist EO Wilson's work on ants. In that society there are extremely well defined roles. We see this in our society as well. It's how we evolved.

[Sidney]

Terminalogy is out dated but the terms we use today will be outdated tomorrow. I enjoyed the article as I found some of me in all the life stages. I will be talking to my counselor about the article Friday as others said they would. Overall thought is was interesting.

[Stephanie47]

Jenny, thanks for the read. There's a lot in there that relates to me. And, a lot that doesn't. I don't get my panties in a bind because someone chose a word that is now out of favor. It's just terminology. Being different and deviating from societal norms and expectations is a challenge for anyone. A counselor I know is of the opinion that every man and woman has some DNA of the opposite sex. The pull is stronger in some than others. I'm comfortable with that hypothesis. The issues that arise is the conflict it may create with those around us. I have to remember the burdens imposed on me to perform in societal roles of a male are in conflict with my inner self. I also have to remember my actions are in conflict with my wife's inner self. Throw in societal norms and expectations for the husband and the wife and it becomes potentially one big mess.

Thanks for the read. Nice to read something once in awhile that is thought provoking.

[Jenny22]

I'm so glad that my post has been of significant interest to many. But wait .... there's more! Go back to the link, click on the author's name, and when that link comes up, click on 'about.' you'll see 6 other links (one not working) of value to those of us who wish to inform SOs with meaningful, possibly helpful information for the cause of (better) acceptance of why we are what we are.

Note .. I wrote to the author asking if she had any updating to the initial article based on advances in medical science since she wrote it. I'll share her response with you.

[Diane Taylor]

The title of the original post is :Maybe why many men dress as women. My thoughts are that we "dress as women" only because gender has been applied to various types of clothing. Same goes for hairstyles, accessories, leg shaving and other things.

[Asew]

At first I totally agreed with Alison but I gave it a chance and was able to relate to some of the points. But I liked reading it since I am still figuring this all out.

[GracieRose]

Thanks for sharing. It does generalize, and since we are all unique individuals, any generalization will have aspects that are off the mark for any one person. That said, it has some interesting observations and I can see a lot of myself in group 3. I also see a lot of general comments that I don't think apply to me. Perhaps I am in denial on some things, or maybe not. I found a lot of food for thought.
Thanks again for sharing Jenny.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I can tell you why I dress---I have a fetish for makeup and I dress to "escape" or take a "vacation" from my normal self and become "Not Me"-----All my concerns worries and responsibilities "melt away" and no longer concern me. I can totally relax and be free from any stress---with a little "fun buzz" to go with it.-------A bit different from most people here, but I think that MANY guys do this too.

[Gillian Gigs]

I read this article with a bit of cynicism at the start. The more I read the more I saw my life from childhood to today. I used to do those internet surveys that ask, do you have a male or female brain, and would dismiss most of it because I would come up with anywhere between 50-50 to 60-40 male and justify that everyone has a mix of both. Now after reading this article and seeing so much of me in it, maybe my inner anger isn't about this thing I called a fetish, but a deep seated desire to just be me! I have dressed more and more in the last 15 years, is it just me expressing a part of me that was repressed continually through my life?

I had a friend in school from grade 1 through 9 that described her perfectly. She was the quintessential Tom-boy. I have known more than one female that fit into the category and they ended up in the lesbian community.

[Judy-Somthing]

Calling it a disorder makes no sense to me. It's only called a disorder because most people don't like it!
I love to dress, I find it enjoyable to dress up as some women do.

I curious what a person is like if they don't have some type of disorder.

I know people who are so called control freaks and think they know what's best for everybody!
People who gamble all their money away, druggies, cheating spouses, hoarders, people obsessed with making money, people who don't like to work, etc. etc. etc.

I can't think of anybody I know who doesn't have some type of disorder!

I know some women who don't like dresses or makeup or dressing fem, do they have a disorder?

[Dana44]

I read it and calling it a disorder. It seems to me that was older psycho thoughts and not why we do it.

[ellbee]

Sorry, but I fail to see an issue with the term "disorder."

A quick check from a dictionary...? A disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction


Why do so many see a therapist -- including members here? Because something is bothering them in their life.


The author is a therapist. This is how they speak in clinical terms... You know, behind your back & in your file notes. ;)

Particularly 15-20 years ago.


And yes, we are all special, unique snowflakes... But after seeing a few "blizzards" worth, I could imagine one begins to see some patterns to it all. This is why psychology can be considered as a science.


Not sure why the "hate". She's just trying to figure it all out -- and do her job by treating the patient. And that treatment includes evaluations for hormones & surgeries for TS's.

Wait... Are we even still "allowed" to use the term "transsexual" anymore? :strugglin :)

[Leelou]

Very interesting read, thanks. I agree that some of the language used is dated, but there's nothing new about crossdressers--we've always been there. I identified with a lot of the paper, but especially this:

"Some individuals with mild gender dysphoria come to terms with their cross-dressing/cross-gender behavioral needs and may even celebrate them with public presentations."

I came to terms with my crossdressing at an early age and have "celebrated" it with public presentations. As have many here. It's who I am. I guess I have a new term, "mild gender dysphoria".

[Ginni]

I found it interesting and can relate to some of it. Experiencing crossdressing first hand I do not believe he understands. Most of his theories, this is a unprofessional opinion based on experience, are incorrect. This is just my opinion.

[Ressie]

The word hypothesize being used suggests that there is a lack of scientific studies to prove the hypothesis. The hypothesis is interesting and may be true or partly true. What I see is three groups being put under one umbrella, Gender Expression Deprivation Anxiety Disorder (GEDAD) which is a bit different than the old Transvestite/Transexual categories..
We probably all have (or have had) some anxiety regarding expressing our fem selves don't we? Being a closet CD has caused anxiety for me throughout my life. I can relate to GEDAD more than GID.

[JeanTG]

I've been hesitating to respond to this thread, but I almost feel as if she used me as an example of G3 in her paper. Fits me to a "T". At this stage and for most of my life I've felt like transition would be wrong for me and leave me equally unhappy. However dressing is immensely satisfying, and greatly helps my sense of dysphoria. With dressing, I can cope with being male.

[Jodie_Lynn]

I see a lot of folks getting triggered by the article's use of the word 'disorder', and another member posted a definition of the term.

Since not everyone has the urge to dress, or has feelings of dissatisfaction with their gender, would it be fair to say that those of us in this community are 'out of step' with the majority of the population? Dare I say abnormal, from what society expects or condones regarding specific gender behavior.

And if that is so, then how should we refer to the CD/TG elements of our personalities? If you don't like 'disorder', how about 'syndrome'? Or, 'condition'? Or, 'malady'? Do the words 'situation', 'lifestyle choice', 'deviation', or 'fetish' strike your fancy better?

[giuseppina]

An interesting read. The language of calling our condition disorders etc. doesn't bother me as that is the language of the time the piece was written.

The type 3 fits me to a degree. It isn't a huge deal that causes me difficulty in functioning if I don't get to dress.

Thanks for posting this, Jenny.

[pamela7]

i think we had a thread on this article a couple of years ago. The author does their best given their level of insight.
The embryonic T-level rationale was previously in a book called "Brain Sex" that I remember reading in the mid 90's.

My own experience as a therapist has led me to see that the full spectrum of human variation exists inside every demographic. There are no "types" of TG males for us to see, just people whose expression has manifold different forms and degrees of dysphoria, sexual needs, friendship needs. There are so many possible life-conditioning causes leading a person into feminine lifestyles, including foetal hormone levels, chilhood traumas and defining moments.

If the article helps someone make sense of their own situation, then great, but if it adds confusion to someone else?

Having discovered my own transness, I can't answer why men crossdress from personal experience, not since knowing i'm a woman in a male body. Now, as to my observations from trans meetings I've attended, there are some reasons I can glean:

1. it's an excuse to meet up with other males, also cross-dressed, for sex outside of otherwise hetero marriages
2. it meets an emotional need that could be sexual or other
3. because they love to bring out their otherwise suppressed feminine side.
4. they're trans but don't know it yet
5. plenty more ...
xx