Tired of close minded people

[Traci H]

Today in my workplace, a conversation with a coworker somehow turned into a comment about transgendered people. This person commented on how messed up those people are. Despite my comments his mind was closed. It eventually turned into the same commentary on gays.

This person is somewhat religious and is a very black and white kind of guy. The whole conversation angered me and I accused him of being a very narrow minded person but it was all a waste of time. There would be no change in this persons mind. He is actually a good friend/coworker and of course has no idea about me. I wonder what would happen if he new I crossdressed.

Later in the day, my wife saw my canvas crossbody bag hanging inside the house. She got pissed that it was there and accused me of using it this past weekend. It is not fem looking at all.

My point? I am getting somewhat pissed at being thought of as abnormal, be it a coworker or spouse. The lack of acceptance is pissing me off, and I have none nothing but support for these people. Sometimes I just want to scream. I treat my wife like a queen and I get treated like the plague. I need to keep it all together, but sometimes I wonder if I should just give it up.

Traci

[Tracii G]

I went thru that at work too so I quit talking to those people unless it had something to do with the job.
Had one supervisor that asked why I never talked to him anymore and I said you're an a hole and I don't like being around a holes.
There are narrow minded stupid people everywhere and you just have to deal with them.
If you give up what good would that do? I say don't give them the satisfaction.

[Lisa85]

As the saying goes, until you walk in their shoes/heels. you just don't know.

Calling someone open/closed is also black and white. Point is take baby steps, like do you know someone like that, or just what some media person is saying... etc..suggest that maybe be profiling without knowing.. just another thought.

[Beverley Sims]

Keep away from people giving you negative vibes, as for your wife avoid conflict and try to keep your emotions under control.

[Cassandra Lynn]

I find that narrow minded label rather, errr, narrow? To me it's more apropos to say bigoted, phobic, hateful people are small minded.

When you get right down to the nitty gritty of it, it is really a total lack of intelligence.

Durrrr, your different, you aren't more like me, I hate you. Duhh, we all have to be alike or your not right and therefore I have to hate you....I are smart.

It's absolutely maddening, I agree, but the best thing we can do is stay away from them and pity them. Otherwise we'll let them rent our headspace for free.

Cass

[IleneD]

Ahh!, Traci.
You are hearing your true identity talking to you. Your inner self simply and naturally REACTING!
Apparently you're still somewhat in the closet or in a DADT with your family. We understand, dear. We do. Nearly everyone on this board experiences some degree of push-back and resistance; some to the extent of real hate or bigotry.
You love your wife and the relationship with her. That's apparent. Your CD Life is no secret to her. There is plenty of advice and examples of dressers/transgenders who have educated and enlightened their significant others in their existing relationship. Be at peace.
In the meanwhile, don't let the comments of others get under your skin. It's just The World. You owe the co-worker nothing personal. I'd keep it that way rather than "teach him a lesson". At some time in the future when the need to be out en femme is unavoidable, you may share your life with him.
These incidents and events are growth lessons for us too. How courageous will we be for ourselves? (I know I've taken baby steps and even avoided incidents myself).
I had one time when I had a good (Navy) friend over for lunch. It was a time when I was just beginning to know myself as a TG and not come out to the world. He went on about TG's in the military. I'm certain my blush may have given me away a little, but I bit my tongue. At the time I didn't think it worth the argument. Afterwards, I felt a bit cowardly for not at least standing up for TG's in general.
Recently I was visiting my little brother (who has always respected me greatly). We had "one of those conversations" where the subject of TGs, and gay in the military came up. Not all supportive or positive. He also noted that I had made some friendly comments to a transgender Marine who showed up on my FB page. I said noting initially, but after a couple hours of contemplation I spoke to him quite privately. I came out to him. Showed him a few photos of me in my new life as Ilene. He was naturally blown away by the news. I had t be honest with him. I'm tired of hiding it too. Slowly and surely, and to the correct people, I will be completely out as Ilene and my transgender identity.

[lingerieLiz]

I don't let it bother me. I find that if you talk to someone you will find something to disagree with them on. My work has always required debating about things. I enjoy it, which drives people crazy. I start asking questions and eventually move to why is that. Before long people become illogical over their answers as to why it should be that way.

[docrobbysherry]

Traci, I'm sorry that u and we r on the wrong side. But, the fact is few people accept T's as being just regular folks who dress differently. I think if everyone could just sit down and chat with a T for just 1/2 hour that mite change!:thumbsup:

But, if it's close minded folks that bother u remember, ignorant people naturally fear and hate those they don't understand! So, it's not just T's and u shouldn't take it personally. Except with your wife. But, that's a mind u can change, I hope?:battingeyelashes:

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Look on the bright side. At least you have Crossdressers.com to blow off steam.

[DIANEF]

I have had both extremes of peoples opinions about Gays and CDs. I worked with an all female staff in a previous job, but one of the morning cleaners was an openly gay guy and he did a drag performance at weekends. All the women loved him and I really liked him too (he looked great dressed by the way). Then I spent a summer season working at my local airport, out on the ramp handling baggage and cargo. What a contrast, there everyone was trying to 'out macho' each other. Anyone who wasn't 'normal' ie, gays. lesbians, trans people, were the lowest form of life, one guy even opined that they should be' disposed of'. Boy was I glad to get out of there.

[vicky_cd99_2]

I won't even say that they are closed minded. They do have prejudices. Just as we all have prejudices. Are the closed minded, no. Are they prejudice against my life style, yes. I have my prejudices, I just try to keep them contained. I will debate almost any subject.

As for your wife. That is something you have to work on with her. While everyone of us on here can tell you this and that, it is an issue only the two of you can work out. My wife sends me confusing signals all the time. One day she won't like me dressing and the next she is buying me lingerie or a dress. Go figure.

[Judy-Somthing]

Sometimes when I see someone I think is a little weird/crazy I think to myself "dressing up is pretty crazy"!
It helps me accept other people.

I worked with a guy a few years ago who said "CDs and gays were messed up".
And one day he told me he use to have sex with his sister for years.

[kimdl93]

None of us have the power to change another person’s mind. Every individual is capable of changing her or his own mind. Deeply ingrained, emotionally loaded beliefs are hardest for a person to change, precisely because such beliefs are rooted in fears, instead of fact or logic.

You can state your mind in disagreement, of course. At best it might plant a seed of doubt.

[Ressie]

I don't think any of us are open minded to everything.

[CONSUELO]

Judy Somthing's comment illustrates the mind set of the bigot very well. There is little we can do with such a closed mind. How can one not only indulge in incest but tell others about it?

[Stephanie47]

I don't think it is always an issue of being open-minded. I can readily understand why a person is perplexed. He or she does not understand. Many things fly in the face of societal norms and customs and religious beliefs. There are many things I do not understand when it comes to human sexuality or sexual identity. Heck, I don't understand myself. It becomes how someone espouses his or her beliefs. Is it in a civil manner? Or does the person denigrate the someone? I've heard it from Congresspersons. Some have spoken in very bigoted terms. It can come from the person sitting across from you at work. Or at a family gathering. I've basically told others to know it off! If they do not want to continue our relationship, then the heck with them.

I am not a marriage counselor. However, it really bothers me sometimes to read posts of total outright hostility displayed by a wife towards her husband. Some of the threads border on spousal mental abuse. It's one thing for a spouse to not understand her husband's desire to wear women's clothing and not want to see or participate in it, and, it's another for her to constantly throw insults and negativity at him. Sometimes people need to keep their mouths shut.

[Tracii G]

Bagging your sister ???? Oh Ewwww thats is just nasty but to admit it like its OK ?? That is kinda messed up you have to admit.

[char GG]

Closed mindedness does not only effect the CDer but the spouses as well. Since my dressed husband walks to the car in full view of the neighbors, they ALL know. Some will talk to me about it, others now just turn and walk away. Some are nice, others not so much. Apparently we are the neighborhood laughing stock. No one lives in a bubble.

[kimdl93]

Char, I'm sorry you feel that your household is the laughingstock of the neighborhood. Humans have the unpleasant propensity to elevate themselves (in their own minds) by denigrating others. And at the same time, I"m reminded of what a colleague told me long ago: everyone has got something.... Those who take satisfaction from demeaning others often carry a burden of shame for what they know about themselves. This isn't a truism....its a demonstrable fact. Just look at the number of intolerant, self righteous and vindictive politicians whose personal behavior has revealed them not just as bigots, but as extreme hypocrites.

And then ponder, for a moment, what might be going on in the lives of those least tolerant of neighbors.

[Dana44]

There are truly close minded people on this earth. Make peace with your wife and take care of yourself. be like a goose and let everything roll off your back.

[docrobbysherry]

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I am not a marriage counselor. However, it really bothers me sometimes to read posts of total outright hostility displayed by a wife towards her husband. Some of the threads border on spousal mental abuse. It's one thing for a spouse to not understand her husband's desire to wear women's clothing and not want to see or participate in it, and, it's another for her to constantly throw insults and negativity at him. Sometimes people need to keep their mouths shut.

Stephanie, have u ever been married? If so, u should well understand most partners have issues with each other. Yet, even if they deal with them occasionally, they don't usually resolve them. The result being they pick on each other rather than enciting a full scale renewal of the fite re their issues every day. I say "issues" because in my experience if there's only one issue between partners, that's a unusually blessed relationship.:hugs:

I'll bet most dressers that r picked on by their SO's have many other unresolved issues. And, even if they stopped dressing tomorrow, the harping would continue about something else!:doh:

[donnalee]

I think a lot of this has to do with a perception of personal guilt and the idea of "well, I'm this, but at least I'm not that!".
A good friend of mine was going on about trans people in the military. I listened to him rant for a minute and then calmly explained why I disagreed.
I said that he was making an emotional argument instead of a logical one and that the reasons he was giving did not equate to the fact that these people wanted to serve and that we should be grateful and not refuse to cover what were pretty minor medical expenses in the interest of a public good.
This guy is intelligent, an engineer with a number of patents to his credit, but, as with many people with a technical background (Henry Ford and William Shockley spring to mind), doesn't apply logic to social situations (a difficult thing as there are so many more variables), but a logical approach did get him to think.
I have always had to compartmentalize my life and have people in it who would probably hate each other if they met, but they each have value and knowledge that is an asset to me so I try to keep them separate, discretion being the better part of valor.

[tasidevil]

It's always difficult to deal with close-minded people and it's probably best to avoid them where possible. I'm retired so that's not a work issue for me but my wife, although accepting, is not very tolerant and it occasionally comes out in caustic comments. I usually chose to ignore them for the sake of peace in the family but not always. It's just an issue we have learned to compromise on although with fewer years left now (I'm 76), I become less tolerant of intolerance and just usually do what I want.

I probably need to follow some of my own adice but to any that need to deal with spousal acceptance, recommend to read the following post of Sister House on the Wives Speak Out https://www.sisterhouse.net/library/category/transgender-resources/the-wives-speak-out/?numtoshow=3&archive=yes

There's a lot of hate out there despite all our advances in the last few years. Just read the comments to any anti-trans article. Sometimes it's worth challenging and sometimes I just shake my head

[Micki_Finn]

One persons “closed minded” is another’s “entitled to their opinion”. If you meet someone you don’t agree with, then avoid that person. Changing people’s attitudes takes a LONG time. The Civil Rights movement was a half a century ago, but I’ll bet everyone on this forum knows someone who’s at least a little racist.

I feel it’s more important to pick our battles right now. For example, instead of worrying about every closed minded person out there, how about we focus on getting gender identity recognized as a protected class Federally?

[Stephanie Kimberlie]

Thank goodness for that. Helps to relieve the pressures of life.

[tbryant2k16]

Sadly, for the most part these people are just following the gender and social norms/stereotypes that dictate our lives. These norms dictate how a man and woman must behave and dress. And we are bucking the established norms. For many to be considered a 'real man' you must conform to the the stereotypes that society has established. If you divert and do anything considered feminine, your not a man.

[Suzie Petersen]

I hate bigots ... because they are different!

[Aunt Kelly]

As the saying goes, until you walk in their shoes/heels. you just don't know.

Calling someone open/closed is also black and white.

Sorry, it's not the same thing at all. Observing intolerance in others is not intolerance. I am so effing tired of hearing that simple-minded trope that I could scream. People are entitled to believe any superstition/religion they like. When thy start defending their bigotry and hatred as if that's some kind of right, they've crossed the line. There is a world of difference between, "I believe it's wrong, according to the tenets of my religion...", and, "I don't believe <insert minority group here> should have the same rights as me because it's wrong, according to..." We've all heard the kind of speech that Traci heard today. As common as it is, it is not defensible.

[kimdl93]

I heartily concur with Kelly. When someone says, "A is wrong" because "my book says so" you are dealing with nothing more than simple bigotry. Every extreme ideology, every totalitarian regime employs the same notion. Bigotry isn't right because a book says so.

But back to an earlier point, why do fundamentalists (whether religious or ideological) insist that their point of view must apply to all? I doubt that David Duke or the Ayatollah Khomeini thought that their pronouncements would cause all those who disagreed to suddenly fall in line. NO, the purpose was to make their followers feel that they apart from the rest of humanity, even better to make them think that they were under "attack" by the outsiders.

Sound at all familiar. Its a theme that has been replayed through the millennia.

[DaisyLawrence]

Two questions:

1: Why do you refer to a bigot at work as a good friend? Seems strange to be friends with someone who pisses you off.
2: Why are you still married to someone who treats you like the plague? I mean, you do realise you only get one life and it's not a rehersal for a better one, yes?

I avoid anyone who pisses me off and hence no-one ever does (more than once at least).

[Krisi]

In life, we encounter people with views that are different from our own. Unless we decide to move to a rural mountain top with no neighbors, TV or Internet, we have to co-exist with them. That's life. Remember, other people believe they are right just as you believe you are right. Arguing with them isn't going to change their minds an more than they will change your mind. Change the subject or walk away if you have to.