How Important Is It To You To Pass

[BELINDA IN BFLO]

I Am What Would Be Called Semi-passable. I Go Out To Local Cd-friendly Establishments And Have Good Times With Other Cd's. Lately, I Have Become Obsessed With Being Totally Passable. I Look At Some Of The Gurls That Are There And Feel Like I'm Not In Their League. I Don't Want To Go Out Anymore...i Feel Ugly. This Has Started In The Last Few Months. No One Has Ever Said Anything Negative About My Looks, Actually, I Received Compliments Whenever I Would Go Out. My Wife Says I'm Being Silly And Too Hard On Myself. She Says I'm My Own Worst Critic. I'm 52yrs Old And Been Dressing For Many Years. Has Anyone Else Experienced This? Your Help Would Be Appreciated.....thanks

[Julie Avery]

For me, realizing that I don't pass has been part of coming to terms with the world as it is.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Those "gurls" that pass? All you see is their photos yes? How do you know how many pictures they had to take to get them. Can you see how tall she is in comparison to others? Hear her voice, watch her move?

Do you know what obsessing over passing is?

<Akbar mode on>

It's a trap

<Akbar mode off>

Just focus on looking as "nice" as you can. Choose flattering clothes and makeup that you think looks good and try not to compare yourself to others too much.

Veronica

[Jodi]

My objective is to be presentable. None of us pass all the time. I try to dress and act appropriately. If that is done, and I am courteous and smile, there is never a problem. Remember--when you look in the mirror, noone else sees what you see.

Jodi

[Janice Ann]

Accept the things you cannot change-- and have the wisdom to know the differnce-- But by god if I want to dress enfemme and walk on the beach== I do try to use a little class-- just go for it-- I will never ever pass

[Kaitlyn Michele]

belinda-

i definitely have that problem..we're all different in what dressing means to us and how it makes us feel and especially in what part of dressing is most important..i'm able to dress anytime i want now, but i havent in almost a month

why?? because i'm so far from passing..i'm over 6' and i can get my body looking good but i just cant get anything close to even a remotely realistic look with the make-up..for some of us it doesnt matter but i am finding more and more for me its an important part of it..i dont know if it means i'll stop(i doubt it) ..but the whole fantasy about "passing" is a HUGE part of cding for me..

i know from others here that's the not the case for everybody so i expect you'll get all kinds of answers

[Maureen Henley]

I'm a lot less concerned about "passing" than I was before I joined this discussion board. Now, I think more along the lines of presentable.
A quick story : A few years ago, my wife suggested a shopping trip to an outlet center in NC. In one store, I whipped out a credit card to pay for a dress. The salesperson, a GG in her early 20's, asked for ID. I gave her my driver's license, which at least didn't show a picture of me with my old beard. After matching the names on the two pieces of plastic, she handed back the license, saying pleasantly, without any specific inflection, " Thank you, ma'am." Did I pass? Heck, no. But I presented an image of a courteous lady, and was treated as such. That's close enough to passing for me.:)

[Victoria_Tu]

Passing... I didnt know you had to throw a football when enfem... Girl just be yourself and present the best you that you can. Its not about them but about you. And your wife is right, we are our worst critics. Enjoy and have a sense of humor.

[Sweet Susan]

Being able to pass is very important to me. And I must admit that I have had some success, but also much failure. I accept my passing shortcomings and get on with it. To be honest, while I find it important to pass, there is also the thrill of being on the border, that place where those who aren't sure are intrigued by the oddity. Let's face it, men look different, and men who look very much like women, even if they are 100% passable, have a distinctly odd look about them. I like that odd look. I find it sexy. What I don't like is the beard shadow oozing through.

[raelene]

Hi,
I actually dont try to pass and definately cant pass, but I most definately like to dress. If no one likes the way I look dressed, I really dont care. I just enjoy the frills and thrills.
Raelene

[annekathleen]

If I could pass, I'd be dressing and getting out there in public, but since I know that I could not pass, I still enjoy doing it in the privacy of my home, and sneaking out once in a while after dark. It's still as erotic and sexual for me. Exploring my bi side, I'd love to have a relationship with a bi cross-dresser who could be so convincing, that my friends and family would never know that she was a he. And yes, there are a few of you here that are very convincing and fit that mold.

[ToyGirl]

i agree with Maureen , just being pleasant and presenting nicely is good enough.

Depends were you live too though. I live in rural australia. As luke skywalker said , if theres a bright centre to the universe than this is the farthest from.

[Jennaie]

Passing can also be a state of mind. I have heard many gurls say that it is your attitude that counts the most. I will not discount that one should take every effort to achieve their female look. Women do the same thing. We all try to look our best.

In another post someone ask how many of us are mistaken for females while dressed in drab. This is happening to me all the time lately. Today I went to Wal-mart and had trouble with the self-checkout. After the young lady was not able to figure it out she called another young lady and she came over and looked at the screen then stated as she glanced at me, "what she needs to do is such and such". This is about the fith or sixth time in the past couple of weeks that I have been labeled female while dressed in drab.

I believe that this is due to my state of mind more than my appearance. I am 50 years of age and I shave my head.

[Taffy]

Zero. Passing is neither a possibility nor a goal for me. A blind man in a coal bin at midnight on a moonless night could see that I am not a 10-year old girl.

Taffy

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i dont know taffy..you look like you pass very well!!! lol

iin the end i still dress..i still go out....i agree with susan..being on the border
in "disguise", as a "woman" is just an absolute total rush that i can honestly say doesnt compare with anything else i've experienced in my life...

i can very distinctly remember many of the times i've come close to passing, or maybe was presentable enough to be treated nicely..

like i say tho, to each her own and and i think thats so important not to judge and just to share our experiences and our feelings

[BELINDA IN BFLO]

Everyone....thank You So Much For Your Helpful Comments On My "problem". Maybe I Am My Own Worst Critic After All. I Should Be Happy I Have An Understanding And Helpful Wife, And Being Able To Express Myself As I Can. Once Again, I Want To Thank All My New Friends Out There. God Bless All Of You............

[Karren H]

Well striving for the ultimate perfection, aka passability, is a never ending goal of mine too. Ad although I go out a lot dressed in public, I'm sure that I'm read by many different people but I dont really care. I look good to me and I feel great. I have the right to wear what I want, when I want and no one can tell me differently. So If you look as good as you can, to hell with everyone else. You only have to please yourself, Belinda.. Ohh and maybe your wife. LOL

Love Karren

[lisacd882000]

Hi Girls,

First I have found the most important charistic in passing is to wear a big sincere smile and have confidance in yourself. the Rest will come.

Michelle you look great, you remind me of me, I dress similar in jeans top and coat and we are the same age. I share many of hte same feelings.

Blinda you are from Buffalo NY, wow I am from Batavia, I go the Suzi Studios a lot, ever meet Suzi?

Lisa

[GypsyKaren]

Passing is for the far left lane on the expressway. I think most of us trannies who do go out get read a lot more than we think, I know I sure do. That being said, so what? I've sure never had a problem, so I really wouldn't worry about it. If you've been out once and survived, you can do it again, so relax and enjoy.

Karen

[EricaCD]

Very, very interesting topic. I'm generally in agreement with the topics here. For me, passability is really a point of reference - and that point of reference is largely a fantasy because, at 6'3" tall, I am only passable at an NBA gathering. Passability is really a more innocent, less "competitive" dimension of my experience. I like the way women look, and I want to see how I can bridge the fundamental differences between my image and theirs. (Again, other than the height dimension which cannot be altered by any ordinary means....)

[Kim E]

Even though I live full time, I don't worry about passing or being read. I live my life as I am and who I am. I try to be presentable and greet most everyone who passes by with a smile. You can go far with confidence and by being just yourself.

Kim

[AmandaM]

I could pass fairly well in my 20's. Not so now in my 40's. But it's mostly those extra pounds getting in the way. I'm trying to go back to the thinness I had in my 20s. Passing to me, is the elixir of life! And my glass needs a refill!!!!

[JodieFosterTLGWLDTL]

Not important.

[Penny]

My objective is to be presentable. None of us pass all the time. I try to dress and act appropriately. If that is done, and I am courteous and smile, there is never a problem. Remember--when you look in the mirror, noone else sees what you see.

Jodi
Jodi, how right you are! I have said the same thing in different threads. I hate the word pass because the opposit of pass is fail. Howcome we use a word that other's who have seen us, labled us a trying to " pass himself off as a woman? We all should strive for presentable (acceptable). That's what we really are doing; presenting our female side hoping to be accepted for who we are. If I don't think I can pass then I am afraid of failure and won't make an attempt but if I feel that I can present myself in a favorable light then I will. Then I am able to present only me and not worry about comparisons.

[Michelle Hart]

Thoughts on passing.

How I got into special forces:

When I first started, I knew there was no way I'd pass. After the first 25 guys dropped I felt a little better but still did'nt believe it but I absolutly would not quit. Days later more were gone our numbers dwindled rapidly as the days went by. Before I relized it, it was the middle of the night and the instructor said " if you want to pass you better go NOW!

5 miles later I crossed the finish line with only seconds to spare. Did I pass?


Yes, because in the begining I was untrained an lacked the selfconfidence to pass. My desire to continually improve and not quit got me across the finishline. Not my size or my muscle MY MIND & ATTITUDE and that is what it really is about.

I share this because that same will to improve got me through then and tonight while I strolled around Walmart dressed COMPLETLY in womens clothes with no makeup. Hell I even saw a family friend when I walked out the door and just said hello and walked on by.

We all have the ability to PASS the question is do we have the will to try....

[Jenny Warren]

Passing is important to me, because I'm not one for going to 'tv' monthly meetings.

I go grocery shopping, lunch with friends, clothes shopping etc, so I have to present well. Some days I'm more passable than others. I'm sure I must get 'read' by someone everytime I'm out and about.

Some days I say to my SO, "I look like a man in a dress today", and she'll say "No you don't, you look like a woman who's had a rough life."

I'm not sure how I feel about that :sad:

In the end, I suppose it all depends on where you are going. If I get read in the street by someone walking by, they're gone in seconds. If it happens in a shop I'll be gone in a few minutes. I won't be walking down a back alley or anywhere else like that as no 'woman' would do that.

At the end of the day, be confident, have fun, but be realistic, both in your look and your attitude.

Jenny

[Falcor]

Belinda,you sometimes feel ugly?,my mirror grew legs an ran off long ago.

[Paula Jaye]

Anyone can pass - if they want to. By that I mean you just need the confidence and nerve to walk out there. In this thread people have noted that if they behave in the manner of a considerate courteous women they have been treated likewise. Someone else said everyone can pass they just need the will - so true. If you want to go out just go - no excuses. "I look like a man" so do lots of GGs (harsh but true); "I'm tall" so are lots of GGs; "I might be recognised" go somewhere you're not known.

Those that are happy dressing at home or at support group meetings (or similar venues) should not feel compeled to push things further than they want. Going out is not for everyone. It's not compulsory or even necessary. If you want to go out - do it. If not have the strength to say "I don't want to, because I don't need to".

[Teresa Amina]

you look like a woman who's had a rough life."

What a great sense of perspective there! Our mental image of ourselves is probably in the way sometimes. Can't get much more Girly than that can you? Always worried if you look good enough! I've got a nice comfy closet here but think about someday venturing out of doors. It looks like it can be fun.:)

[TGMarla]

I'm probably kinda sorta passable, if you don't look too closely. It really doesn't matter to me, because I don't go out. But I still want to present a rather decent semblance of a woman. Perhaps it's more for my own gratification, but I like being pretty, even if I'm not all that pretty.

What's with the capitalizing every word in your posting, hon? That's a little wierd, and grammatically incorrect.

[KathrynW]

whew...
There's a bunch of opinions on this subject.
My opinion, and I repeat "my" opinion (not most others) ...IS....passing is extremely important. This is why I haven't and probably will never go out in public. :straightface:
Being out in public is quite important to many cd's. In some parts of the country, you'll risk a severe beating or worse if you aren't passable. In other parts of the country, you can do whatever you want, and people could care less. So, there are lots of variables and schools of thought on this subject...

Anyone can pass - if they want to. By that I mean you just need the confidence and nerve to walk out there.
wow...I disagree...big time....

[Reana]

Passing in school could be a low "C" or even a "D". At such time as I don't feel I can be a "B" I'll quit dressing. That having been said, I feel that the term "passing/passable" is much overused. The grade relating to truly fooling the public would need to be at least an "A". I've seen CDs that described themselves as passable that looked far from it. I've also seen a few that stated that they were no where near passable that were true beauties (in my opinion anyway). No doubt what we see in our mirrors is probably different than what everyone else sees, and that may be best. I'm satisfied to just look good considering the reality that I am no more than a male in a dress that tries to project the most femme image possible. :)

[michellecd9999]

For me, When I am in public, I want to do the best job I can in passing or being presentable. While some CDers are more passable due to body size, beard, etc. it is my opinion that each of us should do the BEST we can to present an image of a female. To don a dress with out a wig or makeup and go out would create more of a negative image of who we are to the world. Just my option...
Michelle0.02

[Marla S]

Someone else said everyone can pass they just need the will - so true. If you want to go out just go - no excuses. "I look like a man" so do lots of GGs (harsh but true); "I'm tall" so are lots of GGs; "I might be recognised" go somewhere you're not known.
I don't think it is that easy.
Might be true for those who like to have the thrill or those who most likely won't be read and therefore can hide in the public (they pass).
For me, and maybe others, I don't need the thrill, couldn't hide in the public, and don't want to be a strange stranger.
(How many masculine and tall GGs have an easy life in public ?)
Therefore I have to try to come to an arrangement and to balance possible trouble/ embarrassment and the way I'd like to live. I chose not to try to pass in public but in the mirror and express my CDing in a very moderate feminine way in public (might change some day, who knows).

I have the highest respect for those girls that found their balance and don't care anymore if they pass in public or not. (Way to go for me)

[MsJanessa]

I've expressed My thoughts on this subject in previous posts but here I go again. I pass sometimes and sometimes not---I'll admit that I get a thrill when addressed as Maam or Ms---but---passing is not the end all and be all---some of the most sexually attractive TGs/TVs/TSs I know don't pass, at least not all the time, usually because of height issues. The most "passable" TV I've ever met did not make a very attractive women---nobody you would ever consider as a sexual partner but she was relativly short and due to the fact that because she was quit overweight had softer facial figures than most men----she looked like My 70 year old maiden aunt however... nice lady, definately passable but not the femme fatale--or even moderatly attractive T-Girl that we all strive to be(basically because she was way too heavy) The point is that we don't have to pass to be attractive---any T-Girl 5'10'' and over is going to attract attention---and sometimes the key to passing is not attracting attention---just looking like the average drab GG--for Me, I would rather look like a super model(say Heidi Klum??) and not pass then look like Golda Meir and pass. :dom:

[Melanie R]

Last night a group of T girls and several SO's attended GLBT night at the Hobby Center in Houston. We enjoyed seeing Beauty and the Beast as did no doubt 500+ children and teens (out for Spring break). Before the musical began former President George Bush and Barbara were introduced from their seats on the front row. Then the audience 4000+ strong including the Bushes applauded when the President of TUTS said this was GLBT night Now why out of 40 performances did George and Barbara decide to attend on GLBT night?

Walking to our seats, standing in line at intermission for the women's restroom and having our picture made by a patron in the lobby after the performance, either the group passed well even with the teens or this audience 50% who were G & L did not care. The picture below shows some of our group. Melanie is on the right and my SO, Peggy, is the blond with the red jacket.

Bottom line is we all are too concerned about passing. Just be yourself and enjoy your femininity!

Hugs,

Melanie

[windycissy]

It's important to me because I love the things I'm able to do when I'm dressed: shopping, sipping a coffee at a Starbucks, watching the world go by, museums, did I mention shopping? If I want to do these things in a city like Chicago, passing is essential because of the consequences of getting read: it's personally humiliating to be outed in public, and there is the aspect of physical safety if you aren't careful. Cissy

[Noel Chimes]

For me it is not "passing" that matters, it's being "made". For me personally I enjoy being able to go out en femme and not even catch a second look by anyone. However as I have read in past posts, there are some people who simply go out of their way to point out that "it's a guy in a dress" ( i.e. teenage girls, rude obnoxius narrow minded idoits).
We're not trying to take over the world and force our likes down anyones throat, we just want to get our hair and nails done, put on a nice outfit and live. Are we asking too much?
Every lady here that ventures out, whether it is daylight or nighttime, puts in a lot of time and money to acheive their own personal "look". (wigs ain't cheap, nor are shoes, etc.). To state it bluntly, "if you don't like it STEP OFF!! AND KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO YOURSELF!!!:rant:

[JeanneF]

Passing is extremely important to me. I went on a two year hiatus from dressing mainly because I put on about 30lbs and (felt like I) looked awful. That weight has since come off, I'm a happy size 12, and now I'm working on losing more weight to get down to an 8/10. I think it's mainly because I want to go out and experience life as a girl, not just go to local TG meetings.

But, I do think that confidence and presentation is a major part of passing. I'm lucky, being only 5'9", that my height isn't really an issue. But, I have a close GG friend who is 6'2" and gorgeous...she's about a size 10, but could never be mistaken for anything but a very tall girl. Besides, like another GG friend of mine pointed out, there's a lot of really ugly women out there, and they all pass as female. Granted, if you're built like a linebacker, it's going to be hard to pass, but really the most important part is being comfortable in your clothes, and realizing that mannerisms are way more important that just looks. Plus, it's amazing the power of good makeup. If I put a wig on without makeup, I look like a roadie for a mid-80s metal band. $200 spent at the MAC counter will work wonders.

The other big thing I've found in passing is to dress for your age/body type. There's plenty of larger women out there who look fantastic, because they know what will work and won't work for them. If you're a size 22, don't dress like you're a size 4. My mom is not a small woman, but she realizes this and dresses accordingly, and always looks great. If you're 50, wearing clothes meant for a 21 year old isn't going to fly either. I dress like any girl in her late 20s/early 30s would dress...I do a lot of shopping at Banana Republic and the Gap. In ten years, I'll probably be shopping at Talbot's or Ann Taylor. I love the college/sorority girl look, but I'm too old for it, so I don't try.

[Denise01]

Passing for me is important, and I do the best I can.
Living in a small rural village, where every one knows every one, i do have to be very careful, and therefore only go femme, when I am away from home.
Normally I do go about an hour away, to lessen the chance of bumping into some one I know.
I have been told, I passed very well by the wife ( gg ) of a TS friend I know.
Yesterday, i had an appointment in a city about hour and half away from home, so took the opportunity to spend the day femme. I wore femme slacks and top to the appointment then after i was finished, put on my wig, make up and jewelry in the car.
Must have passed well. In a restaurant for lunch, after I sat down, one of the waitresses, gave me a menu, and then i heard her tell my waitress I gave the lady a menu for you. That same afternoon In wal-mart, went to get a coke , and the young lad in McDonalds, said, What can i get for you Ma'am.
The night before i was in a ladies wear store, that was having an introdction of the new spring line, and had a draw for a $25.00 gift certificate.
Normally i could not win anything, but guess what, i won it.
Went to the store last night to pick it up as i knew it would not be busy, and as they had a sale on thought I would use it.
I must have passed well, as the sales people in the store treated me none other than a lady, and referred to me as one when chatting to the other sales clerks. They were not busy, For some reason, got chatting about make up and colours, and they asked me if i used a certain brand.
If they did realize I was TG sure did not show it, as they chatted to me like they would any other lady, even to the point when i was trying on some tops, the sales girl i had mentioned that one was better than the other in the fit, as we both had basically the same size on top.
It feel real good, when you get treated like a lady, and makes you want to return to the store.

Denise:)

[KathrynW]

I love being "gender gifted"!
ARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH..... ;)

[Melanie R]

As I write this my wife is in the next room with two suitcases and a bed full of clothes trying to decide what we both will wear on our upcoming crossdressing cruise. SInce Melanie will be enfemme for 7 nights deciding what to wear and what we can share during the week to cut down on space in those small cabin closets is no small task. I have this morning, as was done on 25 past cruises, instructed the cruise line on our group and how we want to be treated such as if one of us is enfemme we are adressed as Mam. By the time we board in Galveston on April 2 the ship's personnel will know we are coming aboard and we want to make certain there is no discrimination by ship's personnel or other passengers. When we did our first cruise in 1992 we got the cruise line's legal department to prepare a TG anti-discrimination statement which is now in effect for all cruise lines. There were very few TG anti-discrimination legal policies in effect in 1992.

Will anyone in our group pass on this cruise. No, not even the significant others with us on the cruise. But we will have the opportunity as always to educate 3000 other passengers during the 7 days about our fantastic TG community.

Hugs,

Melanie

[JoAnnDallas]

Melanie...How do you handle excursions when in port. Don't you need somekinda of ID to get off/on ship.

[KathrynW]

By the time we board in Galveston on April 2 the ship's personnel will know we are coming aboard and we want to make certain there is no discrimination by ship's personnel or other passengers.
I'm sure ship personnel could be required to maintain a certain conduct with your group, but it would be virtually impossible to 100% guarantee there would be zero discrimination among all other passengers.

I'm also not so sure I agree with the idea of asking for special treatment of a group of people.

Yes, I realize there aren't many rednecks on a cruise ship. But just in case a passenger gets drunk and crazy and decides he doesn't like the way the way you or someone in your group is dressed...can you swim really really well?

[Paula Jaye]

I don't think it is that easy.
Might be true for those who like to have the thrill or those who most likely won't be read and therefore can hide in the public (they pass).
For me, and maybe others, I don't need the thrill, couldn't hide in the public, and don't want to be a strange stranger.
(How many masculine and tall GGs have an easy life in public ?)
Therefore I have to try to come to an arrangement and to balance possible trouble/ embarrassment and the way I'd like to live. I chose not to try to pass in public but in the mirror and express my CDing in a very moderate feminine way in public (might change some day, who knows).

I have the highest respect for those girls that found their balance and don't care anymore if they pass in public or not. (Way to go for me)

Marla

I hope you (or anyone else) thinks I am saying everyone should go public regardless. I'm not and I'm very happy when I hear someone like you who has found a balance in their life. Enjoy it.

As for it being easy to go out in public, no one said it was easy. I can remember all too well those first outings; what did I think I was doing :redface: !!!!!! But difficult is not the same as impossible. Most GGs of all shapes and demeanours go about their daily business with hardly a second glance from the rest of the world. They don't get hassle - most people don't care about others so long as they don't hassle them. The same is true of trannies out and about. The thing is to avoid potential hassle-provoking situations whenever possible. Part of this, as said elsewhere, is dress appropriately.

[Paula Jaye]

The other big thing I've found in passing is to dress for your age/body type. There's plenty of larger women out there who look fantastic, because they know what will work and won't work for them. If you're a size 22, don't dress like you're a size 4. My mom is not a small woman, but she realizes this and dresses accordingly, and always looks great. If you're 50, wearing clothes meant for a 21 year old isn't going to fly either. I dress like any girl in her late 20s/early 30s would dress...I do a lot of shopping at Banana Republic and the Gap. In ten years, I'll probably be shopping at Talbot's or Ann Taylor. I love the college/sorority girl look, but I'm too old for it, so I don't try.

Perfectly stated. The word should be "blend" not "pass". We mostly want to go about our business like the rest of the world. On a visit to the US I met up with a local girl during the day time. I was dressed in a summer frock as I had been, with out problems, for the previous few days. She was older than me wearing a bright red patterned mini skirt, bright red shoes with 4" heels and enough bling to restock Fort Knox. We attracted attention and got read. But hey she was happy.

[Paula Jaye]

Being out in public is quite important to many cd's. In some parts of the country, you'll risk a severe beating or worse if you aren't passable. In other parts of the country, you can do whatever you want, and people could care less. So, there are lots of variables and schools of thought on this subject...[/COLOR][/FONT]

Originally Posted by Paula Jaye
Anyone can pass - if they want to. By that I mean you just need the confidence and nerve to walk out there.

wow...I disagree...big time....

Kathryn

The point I'm making is that the main thing that stops people going out is their own fear of what will happen. The truth is that, unless people make unwise choices of location or presentation, very little will happen. I have read loads of posts on forums from people who have just made their first steps in public. A major reaction is "Hey, the ground did not open up and swallow me. People didn't stop, stare, point and jeer. I just walked around the shops and was treated well." Some will of course meet a little hassle. But major hassle comes from going to the wrong places or looking like mutton dressed as lamb.

It's not easy to go out at first but we should try our best to encourage those who wish to make the big step and advise on how to make it an enjoyable experience.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Kathryn

The point I'm making is that the main thing that stops people going out is their own fear of what will happen.

Right, it's easy to say, "I'll get beaten with a stick. I'll never go out in my home town" and then not go out. It lets one off the hook for their own personal growth and self acceptance.


The truth is that, unless people make unwise choices of location or presentation, very little will happen.

Right!


Veronica

[KathrynW]

Right, it's easy to say, "I'll get beaten with a stick. I'll never go out in my home town" and then not go out. It lets one off the hook for their own personal growth and self acceptance.
Veronica ~
whoa...
"it lets one off the hook" ??? What the heck does that mean?
And just who gets to dictate what one must do in order to advance personal growth and self acceptance?

[BeckyCath]

OK... Passing... this is such a can of worms...

I went to the Isle of Man ( which for those who have little idea of the geography of the Uk, the IoM is a little Island half way between England and Ireland in the middle of the Irish Sea) with 2 women i have met and befriended online... Neither of them had met a TS before, but they took me at face value, Because they felt the knew "Rebecca", they didn't feel uncomfy, and when we met face to face, everyting was fine. We met ouf friend who lives on the IoM, and she said that if she didn't know i was Ts, she wouldn't have known i wasn't a born woman! I had been told that the IoM was rabidly trans unfriendly, but i found it very accepting... maybe i did pass! My friends never felt awkward, even tho i am 6'2 and not exactly svelte, they took me for the person i am, and to be honest, there are born females who don't exactly pass...

Thing is, I don't "pass"... How do i know? Because when i "came out" at my children's primary school on Tuesday, parents who know me as "him" recognised me as "me"...

I don't pass too well, because i get called sir from time to time when i'm out, and i get the fertive glances every now and then from strangers...

I don't try to pass, I don't try to "look presentable" ... I am just me, i am just a woman with a few issues, and if people want to "assume" i'm really a bloke, then, i guess that's entirely upto them, I am doing this for myself, i am doing it for no other reason than my own wellbeing I have the confidence to be out as a woman, because this is who i am...

Ask yourself, who are you doing this for?

Passing all depends on your veiwpoint and your definition

Rebecca

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Veronica ~

"it lets one off the hook" ??? What the heck does that mean?

It means you don't have to do anything that breaks you out of your comfort zone. That's like me when I used to say things like, "those big city gals are so lucky, they can go out." And I was resentful of them and it led to jealousy and perhaps some anger.



And just who gets to dictate what one must do in order to advance personal growth and self acceptance?

You do, but change is a part of growth, and saying "I can never go out, I don't pass, I'll get beaten with a bat", discourages change. Also breaking ones comfort barriers on occasion is a good thing.


Veronica

[Melanie R]

Melanie...How do you handle excursions when in port. Don't you need somekinda of ID to get off/on ship.

No, the ship issued ID card is sufficient. We never have a problem in the ports.

Melanie

[KathrynW]

You do, but change is a part of growth, and saying "I can never go out, I don't pass, I'll get beaten with a bat", discourages change. Also breaking ones comfort barriers on occasion is a good thing.
For some people, there are very valid, legitimate, reasons for not cd-ing in public.
With passability only being a part of this, among other things...
With no way of knowing a person's individual situation & circumstances...perhaps you shouldn't make this sound like such a blanket statement? Just a thought...

[Paula Jaye]

[QUOTE=KathrynW]For some people, there are very valid, legitimate, reasons for not cd-ing in public.
[FONT=Georgia][COLOR=darkred]QUOTE]

And one very good reason is "I don't want to. I am content with the way things are." But to say that also takes some courage as many feel that to go out in public is expected as a "civic duty". Other reasons usually have solutions to them. Many are reluctant to accept the solution to their block. This is not because the solution is a bad one but because to accept it would put the person closer to confronting their fears about stepping outside the comfort zone. To coin a cliche "We have nothing to fear but fear itself".

I have yet to hear anyone who has finally taken the plunge say "I wish I hadn't done that". Rather it is a case of "What was I worried about? Should have gone ages ago."

[Stormgirl]

NOt very important,I won't dress outside of the house.

[Sierra Evon]

For me I 2 am in a constant state of semi-passable, never more than a
few steps away from living f/t as a women , Ive thought about it.
I'm reasonable sure that I could pass , with some more work in certain
area's , also as it has been said before , passing is a state of mind too.
Yes to me , its important. Or it could become more so later on ......

[Danielle/Mo]

I would like to pass as best as I could. However, I think that is is possible to at least look fairly attractive without passing. Some of us-me included- have physical features ( such as height, wide shoulders, etc) that make complete passing difficult. I try to look at least half way decent even if people know what I am when they see me.

[Paula T]

at least when I am enfemme as I am not to tall. (5ft 7in) so mostly when I am out I wear flat shoes (But not always):D When it is sunny out then I can wear my sunglasses and don't get many looks at all (darn) I must not be pretty enough. I once had a black gal tell me she thought I was beautifiul when I was shopping for shoes at DSW. I could tell she read me but it made me feel good anyhow. That time I was dressed rather elegantly with a nice pants suit and heels.:D

[Wendy Seymone]

I think Vicki Rene sums it up quite nicely with this quote on her website (http://www.vickirene.net/),
"It is great to be passable but it is even greater to be accepted!"

I pretty much will go wherever I want when I want to, and I truly enjoy being able to be perceived as a woman while doing so. I simply will let others decide for themselves how convincing they think I am. :battingeyelashes:

[MsJanessa]

I think Vicki Rene sums it up quite nicely with this quote on her website (http://www.vickirene.net/),
"It is great to be passable but it is even greater to be accepted!"

I pretty much will go wherever I want when I want to, and I truly enjoy being able to be perceived as a woman while doing so. I simply will let others decide for themselves how convincing they think I am. :battingeyelashes:
Absolutly Wendy!! And the corollary is that in order to pass, a T-Girl first has to learn to accept herself---once she does that it really doesn't matter.:dom:

[Rikkicn]

I have had many thoughts on this subject in the last few years. It has been important for meto find a place of comfort and safety when I went out.

In the begining of going full time, I want to go out and not attract attention. I didn't want people looking at or staring and whispering about me. That happened some in the beginning and I found my self always on edge and not able to relax in to the moment.
For the first years I changed little things about how I looked and what I wore and eventually I stopped being noticed.
I tried different skirts, pants and tops, hair styles and shoes, coats and jewelry and on and on. Yes, even make up.
Now, I don't seem to get noticed much at all and if I do it is a non event.
The interesting thing to me is that I'm not sure it was the clothing changes etc or the increased comfort level with myslef or getting used to being out in the world en femme.
I've now gotten to a place where I often like to be noticed so that people will know that I'm TG. I think that's important for me know and it's one way to help and support my community.
After all that being said I do like having the ability to slip under the radar when I feel the need.

Thanks for a great thread

[Alexandria]

I usually try not to pass. Sometimes I dress up without makeup out of lazyness (despite that's where a lot of fun is at), sometimes I dress in outfits when clearly I don't have the femine figure to do so. Sometimes I don't wear a wig because I dislike getting it tangled up.

I crossdress because it's how I like to look and feel, not as how some other person percieves I should look.

[Ellie]

Passing is not all that important to me right now since I don't go out en femme however once I do go out I'm sure that no matter how well I think I pass there will be some folks that will read me.

I'd have to think that getting read as a CD is not nearly as traumatizing as a GG who gets mistaken for a CD so I don't see it as a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[jamie_44]

I get into the female mode like an actor or actress playing a part in a show. I want to feel like I am close to passing in my performance, although none of us can master all aspects of the beautiful female, so in summary yes, passing is important to me.

[Stephany]

It's getting more and more important for me now. For the longest time it was just dressing up in private and I didn't really care too much what I looked like as long as I got 'the thrill'. However, lately I've been worrying more and more about how I look, how good my makeup is, whether my walk is right etc. etc. I've only been out under cover of darkness, but really want to feel like I could go anywhere en femme. So, yes I want desperately to be passable, though I doubt I ever really will.

[BELINDA IN BFLO]

Everyone...thank You So Much For Your Comments On This Subject. I Never Thought I Would Get Such A Wonderful Response. I Have Learned A Lot From What You Have All Shared With Me. I Feel Much Better About Myself Now. If I Am Passable Is Not The The Most Important Issue, I Understand That Now. It Would Be Great To Pass All The Time, But That Will Not Happen. The Fact That I Can Express Myself As Belinda When I Want To, Is Something I Should Cherish. I Am Very Lucky To Have An Understanding And Accepting Wife By My Side. Yes, Passing Is Nice....but Not The Most Important Part. Thank You, I Not Only Received Great Advice, I Also Made Many New Friends, And That Is Something That Is Important.
Thanks Again....belinda

[Sally2]

Right on Jodi. I have no delusions of grandeur about passing. While dressed I pass a lot of people therefore does that make me passable? Sally2

[rhondasxycd]

Passing isn't that important too me.. because i don't go out much..And when i do its too a club that is very accepting and i know there will be other girls there..But i do enjoy playing with makeup and clothes always trying too improve how I look and what looks right and what dosn't....Always looking for that next cute outfit too wear out !!! I say just enjoy yourself why you can !!!

[heather_nouveau]

I find that it's very important to me personally, to try and look passable; it's a big part of the fantasy and image I want to try and project.

Heather

[Raychel]

Passing is not an issue at all for me. On the very rare occasions that I do get to dress the only person that know is myself. And it is not all that ofetn that I look in the mirror at myself. When I do no matter how I am dressed I just see myself in a dress anyway. The rest of the world will probably never see me dressed, so no big deal here.