Insults, Complements, and Passing

[Paula DAngelo]

There is another thread open about "What's the worst that can happen" and while this relates to that I didn't want to take that thread off course.

First let me state that I'm not a cross dresser, I'm in the process of transitioning and I'm out in the real world every day, all day. I'm going to relate something that happened to me at work a couple of days ago that I think relates to all of us and it's something that I don't think we often think about.

I work with the public every day and it's not always the most respectable members of society. I've found when people get upset and angry the filters come off their brains, they say what they feel/think, not necessarily what is socially correct/proper. I was dealing with one of these individuals and he starts mouthing off trying to insult me, calling me all the derogatory things his little brain could think of. The two that I actually remember are "b*tch" and "d*ke". Granted both of these terms are negative and nasty, but even with the insults being made they also were compliments in a fashion since it implied that he thought he was dealing with a female, so I guess that's a plus one for me and my ability to pass.

Unfortunately it didn't stop there, he also started implying the threat of physical violence. The threat of violence seemed real enough that I called for backup. Luckily things deescalated and he left before my backup even had showed up. Needless to say my pulse was racing and I was keyed up for a while after this encounter.

Morals of the story.
Insults can be compliments, some times.
Passing does not mean that bad things can not happen (remember we lose that protection that being male can give us)
Bad things can happen very quickly and you can't always avoid them.
Most importantly, I survived without injury and will continue to be out there every day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't go out, just be aware of what's going on and do your best to stay safe.

We all need to remember that drab or dressed, passing or not, things could happen and we need to aware.

Stay safe all!

[Pat]

First, I'm glad you're OK. And I agree that all people, trans or not need to keep situational awareness at all times.

As for insults not being insults -- it's a tricky point. You didn't accept them as insults and I think that's the key. In your situation, even if he hurled trans insults I'm hoping you wouldn't accept them either. It sounds like you've reached the point of confidence in who you are that you'd still let them roll off you. Insults have their effect because they demonstrate the person's disrespect of you -- if you didn't want their respect in the first place, they're pretty harmless. ;)

[Beverley Sims]

Paula,
Be aware of your surroundings, you are a woman, not a man.

When I dress, which is most of the time I have to remember I am not projecting the image of a man.

[Rogina B]

There is another thread open about "What's the worst that can happen" and while this relates to that I didn't want to take that thread off course.

First let me state that I'm not a cross dresser, I'm in the process of transitioning and I'm out in the real world every day, all day. I'm going to relate something that happened to me at work a couple of days ago that I think relates to all of us and it's something that I don't think we often think about.

I work with the public every day and it's not always the most respectable members of society.

We all need to remember that drab or dressed, passing or not, things could happen and we need to aware.

Stay safe all!

We are not everyone's cup of tea...For sure !

[Tracii G]

Not sure about the statement that "we lose the protection that being males gives us".
You still have that ability you just need to remember that.
Seems to feed in to the victim mentality which is not good.

[docrobbysherry]

I understand what I think u meant, Paula. On the rare occasion I was mistaken for a female it wasn't all roses! After looking me up and down in vanilla venues, interested men were obviously dismissive of me. For whatever reasons I didn't meet their standards!:straightface:

I agree with Pat. No matter how I'm dressed, if an SA or service person is trying to be helpful and friendly? I'm never offended if they call me, "Mr, Sir, Ma'am", or another polite gender reference.

As opposed to service males that call me, "Bud, Dude, or Boss", in drab! That irritates me!:Angry3:

[DaisyLawrence]

Not sure about the statement that "we lose the protection that being males gives us".

Tracii has a good point. Whilst I know women that have been harassed, I have never met one that was actually physically or sexually abused when out alone. I have, however, met countless men that have had a beating when out at night, even when not alone, and all for no other reason than the muppets that beat them up could think of nothing more entertaining to do. The answer is to avoid city centres late at night regardless of who you are and how you present.

[Paula DAngelo]

You still have that ability you just need to remember that.
Seems to feed in to the victim mentality which is not good.

Traci,

I agree, I do still have the same abilities that I had, however the people that I might be dealing with already are in a losing position. If they decide that they don't want to face the outcome that they're looking at they can, will, and do get physical. I've seen it from experience, and from talking with my female co-workers, that people are less inhibited to get physical when they see that they are being confronted by one of us females, than when confronted by my male co-workers. I'm not playing the victim card, I'm talking about real life, my life. Granted my job requires me to put myself in situations that would be best avoided, so I'm in positions that the "general public" does not often find themselves in.

Remember, the supposed "protection from being male" doesn't have to be based on facts, but on what the other person perceives/thinks. Believe it or not there are times that just being male does offer some protection.

[Rayleen]

Interesting reading Paula, I now how it feels to be attack by a bunch of males looking for entertainment.

even if your with someone, it can be a lasting experience and now being scared to go out in some places.

Stay safe !

[Pat]

Not sure about the statement that "we lose the protection that being males gives us".
You still have that ability you just need to remember that.

What ability are you talking about? The ability to fight? She didn't really bring that up.

There's a default amount of protection one gets just for appearing male. It's not based on a man's actual ability to fight, but on the perception that they might have an ability to fight. Most men think they could prevail in a fight against a woman and so that perception goes away for women -- it lowers the threshold for an attack. Paula might actually be able to leave them bleeding in the gutter, but they're going to look at her, think "woman" and give themselves elevated odds of winning a physical match. Which makes an attack more probable. Which I think is what she was talking about.

[Teresa]

Paula,
How much do you feel you appearance made to his abusive behaviour ? If you presenting fully as a male he probably would had sounded off still and even become more physically agressive if if felt he could take you on man to man .

I'm not sure if his comments could be taken as plus points , his mind was searching for ways to hurt you and he thought they might be the right ones. We should see abuse as abuse and not excuse it .

It's good to hear you didn't suffer any lasting effects .

[Paula DAngelo]

Teresa,

This isn't the first time I've been in this type of situation. I've had it both as male and female so I've seen it from both sides. As Pat stated I truely believe him seeing me as a female made him "think" he had an advantage. Whether he did or not isn't the point, it's what he perceived to be, is what's important here. I'm speaking from my own experience and that of those I work with when I say that as females we are perceived to be less of a threat and an easier target (it's something that we recognize as part of the job). Some may not want to believe it but appearing male can offer protection at times.

As far as his comments, yes they were made to try and insult and be hurtful. I'm not saying they weren't abusive or that he should be given a pass for them. I was just commenting that while they were insults they showed that he thought he was dealing with a female, so there must be something I'm doing right.

[Tracii G]

Oh I have had my share of insults hurled at me for the way I am and I have related a few on this forum over the 10 years I have been a member.
I have been attacked physically as well just for being me and yes I had to defend myself physically.
Pat to say someone "might" have an ability to fight or there is a default amount of protection being male makes no sense. You are basing your assumption on an assumption.
Guys will fight with anyone if provoked size or "assumed" ability or "default" as you say doesn't really matter and really that sounds like a lot of double speak.
I will add some small women and women in general can fight and prevail over a man.
How can I say that? Well simply men are taught to never hit a woman so they most of the time don't so appearing female can be an advantage.
If the guy sees you as something not exactly female it changes the game entirely. He may view you as gay and reprehensible or a tranny that needs to be shocked back into being a male who knows what people will do.
All I'm saying is be ready to defend yourself no matter how you are presenting. Self awareness is important.

[Sallee]

I don't think it is the male self protection as much as the protection we get from being what the customer, in this case was expecting. He/she would have been fine with a girl or a boy but something that was different and abnormal to his/her world gave them the instinct to attack. If the associate that was trying to help say was furby it would have probably caused the same response.
we need to more accepted by society as a whole to not have the negative response. It kind of like seeing a black person at a lunch counter in Alabama in 1950.

[ellbee]

There's a default amount of protection one gets just for appearing male.

Yeah, sorry, but I'm going with Tracii on this one.

Why? Because the above quote is far from reality. So much so, that I'm not sure if I should scream or just laugh. :heehee:


At least while I've been alive, the overwhelming majority of physical fights in everyday life has been between a guy & at least one other guy.

That "default amount of protection" that men are supposedly "privileged" to have is nowhere to be seen. In fact, simply being a guy makes him *more* of a target.


And sometimes females take advantage of this, too. Have you ever seen one or more really pissed-off chicks beat up on a guy? Or even just one punch or push? It happens. And in most cases, does the guy fight back, like he would with another guy? Heck, no!

If anything, one could easily argue that when it comes to this, *females* are the ones who are privileged. ;)


But I digress... :)

[Tracii G]

ellbee you are so right I see women push issues with guys and even hit them repeatedly assuming the guy won't hit them back.
When a guy pushes the woman away from him after he has had enough of her hitting him they start screaming he hit me.
Women will push a man and egg on an argument expecting their man to come to the rescue and their man is like hey be quiet and back off this guy is going to rip me a new of if I have to fight him.
I have seen that happen too many times working as a bouncer/cooler.

[Paula DAngelo]

Traci,
I don't disagree with what you are saying or what you have observed. I have no doubt that what you have seen can and does happen in your "world". What people are forgetting is we don't all exist in he same "world". When I'm working I'm in a different world than most people exist/operate in. I can be dealing with people that are already in a position where they may feel they have nothing to lose and possibly a lot to gain by getting physical. Believe me these people don't have any problem getting physical with a female. Intimination is a factor in the world I'm working in and whether we like it or if it should be, a female is normally less intiminating than a male. Remember I'm operating in a different world.

I never meant to say that what I've seen or experienced is what everyone will see or experience, but that whether we pass or not we could and at times do have the threat of violence and we need to watch out. We can all learn from the experiences of others and I just hope that by sharing maybe someone will keep from being hurt.

[Tracii G]

Paula I have no idea what your "world" is but I live in a normal world like everyone else.
I have to ask is my world somehow not as real as yours is.
I would love to know what your world is.
I did live in the violent world of 1%er outlaw bikers where violence was a daily thing and part of the business.
So I do know the ramifications of violence are all too well and I am glad I don't live that life anymore.

[ellbee]

Paula,

I'm honestly not looking for any kind of debate, nor am I dismissing your experiences in your corner of the working world, but...


Genuinely curious: Are these threats of physical violence (implied or otherwise) & forms of intimidation? Or do literal acts of actual physical violence occur on a frequent basis? If the latter, between which sexes does it commonly occur?

Thanks! :)

[Leslie Langford]

Paula, I have read this thread with great interest, and I totally "get" where you are coming from.

But it does beg the question...why are you not considering a career change at this point given given the intimidation factor associated with current your job, which has obviously exacerbated since you have begun to transition? Is it really worth all the stress and grief that is associated with it? Isn't transitioning life-altering enough of a change without this added burden?

You've done your part to try to make the world a better place for those disadvantaged and socially challenged members of society who are still struggling to acquire basic life skills, and it sounds as if you are approaching burn-out. Maybe it's time to step away and pass the torch on to someone else and do some healing of your own...

[Dana44]

Paula, i grew up there so I know what you are talking about. It is harder there as people fight more easily. Be safe and be true to yourself.