A quick thought on the passing question.

[Teresa]

I was writing a reply to Tracii, and thinking about acceptance , so my reply read , " People may read me as a man but I show enough female signs to override that thought and find I'm being accepted as a woman ". I guess that desribes the passing question .

We have to accept we can never achieve 100% , and we're fooling ourselves if we can, it's learning how to tip the balance to become convincing enough and gain that acceptance .

To ask the question do I pass, poses the question , " As what ? " It's a totally subjective thing , there are too many variables to give a defining answer .

[Helen_Highwater]

Teresa,

Is it more the case that we're accepted as someone who identifies as female as opposed to being accepted as a woman. As you rightly point out there are many variables and for those transitioning and taking hormone therapy and/or surgery acceptance as a woman becomes ever closer as time progresses as facial feature become more feminine.

I've come to believe that as I don't pass when I'm face to face with an SA for instance it's far less about looking totally female and more about presenting as female. By that I mean mannerisms and how you interact. A simple example is GG's are more likely to engage in conversation with an SA. I was out (Drab) shopping with my SO the other day while she was buying some new tops. When paying she and the SA had a conversation about how my SO likes these because of the length, the fact she has trouble finding things long enough........... , the SA responding with "I know what you mean, I have the same problem".... It became a shared experience for them. These are conversations we as males just don't have in the same situation.

If we develop that skill to be able to enter into this world then we're well on the way to crossing the boundary to feeling accepted. Looks ain't everything.

[Teresa]

Helen,
I found that out a while ago now when I bought a selection of shoes and boots from Brantano ( another shop I miss along with BHS ), I was in drab but when i tried on some peep toe heels she told me I lucky I could wear them as she couldn't . I know I could repeat many stories about shopping experiences . I did enjoy my latest one in a sghopping village , I'd seen a lovely LBD the week before , so I left the other in the cafe and went to check it out , I had a size 12 and 14 , yes I was dressed and made up the SA showed me the changing rooms , I slipped the size 12 on it fitted so well and felt very comfortable . I came out to see if the others in my group had appeared but they were still in the cafe so I asked the SA her opinion , she was at the pay desk with another SA and two or three customers . She said wow that was made for you you look great , I then heard a wow from behind me and an attractive blond customer just gave me the thumbs up, being a man felt a million miles away !

By the way the dress was in a M&S outlet shop reduced from £45.00 to £22.00.

[Jodie_Lynn]

Helen,

That is a ridiculously easy skill to master: just use your words!
I used to be the typical guy in sales transactions: present items to cashier, monosyllabic responses, pay and leave.

Now, since going out more, presenting as a female, I actually engage in conversation! And I smile. A lot! It really does make a huge impact.

[Nikki A.]

The way I look at it, if you accept yourself as a woman then others will accept you also. I've seen girls who are uncomfortable or dressed wrong for whatever they are doing when out and they draw attention. I've seen other girls who act as if there is nothing special about them, doing their activities and not an eye gets batted.

[Tracii G]

All thoughts expressed here are true and that is what I have found as well.

[GretchenM]

Years ago I was acquainted with a transexual who had an interesting perspective on this question of passable and what that means. I think you are quite correct in your perspective on this. Being passable is a near impossibility, although in all honesty being a size 12 or 14 sure helps. On the other hand there are a lot of women who would love to be an 18 or 20. Anyway, my friend used the concept of passable and presentable rather than passable and acceptable. If you think about it, the difference between presentable and acceptable is a lot larger than you might think at first. Acceptable tends to be more inwardly directed whereas presentable is more outwardly directed. Maybe a shift in perspective helps define a feasible goal we men who are also, at least in part, women can strive for.

[Tracii G]

That makes perfect sense Gretchen.
A lot of my ques I learned from a local transexual woman that transitioned 20 + years ago and she looks at it in almost the same manner.

[Helen_Highwater]

Helen,

That is a ridiculously easy skill to master: just use your words!
I used to be the typical guy in sales transactions: present items to cashier, monosyllabic responses, pay and leave.

Now, since going out more, presenting as a female, I actually engage in conversation! And I smile. A lot! It really does make a huge impact.

Jodie,

You're of course correct. It is an easy skill to master once you're over the rabbit in the headlights phase. I feel the real trick is being confident enough to initial that dialogue. To walk up to the sales desk and say "Hi, how are you? How's your day going?" Anything to start a conversation and let's face it nothing is better than a question especially one that is directed at them as a person.

I think what flows through so many of the replies is learn to be yourself, forget about whether or not you "pass" and just be a nice human.

[Julie Slowinski]

I agree
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?254141-Going-Out-and-Passing&p=4173835&highlight=#post4173835

- - - Updated - - -


learn to be yourself, forget about whether or not you "pass" and just be a nice human.

This is exactly it!!!!

[Shelly Preston]

Teresa

You can fool some of the people all the time

You can fool All the people some of the time

You cant fool all of the people all the time

All we can do is our best to put doubt in the mind of those who see us.

[Allisa]

I believe first one must first shed the male attitude and mind set, lose the fear of being softer and a bit more emotional, not an easy thing to do. Sure there are the numerous mannerisms and "tricks" to use but if you don't come across as an authentic person all you will receive is a polite tolerance. And once again there's nothing more feminine than a smile, from a smirk to a full on toothy even if no one else is around.

[NicoleScott]

Teresa, it's probably not the one you're looking for, as my answer to "as what?" is: a crossdresser.
I dressed up home alone a lot, but finally felt the tug to get out. One evening I was finally able to jump over that high hurdle called a threshold. Since I survived it OK and found it to be exciting, it got easier, somewhat less fearful, and more fun. I wanted to be seen but not approached, so I moved in and out of the shadows and always had an escape plan if needed.
On vacation alone out of town, I found a tg-friendly club, checked it out one afternoon in guy mode, and went back that evening dressed up in my preferred everything-over-the-top style. No problems, much fun. It occurred to me that I wasn't trying to pass as a woman, but to be seen as a crossdresser. After all, that's what I am. I want to be seen as a good one.
Funny thing happened while there. The club had different shows, drag queen and drag king, etc., depending on the day of week. A man asked me "are you here for the show?", and I said yes. I wondered later that while my answer was yes, to watch the show, he might have been asking if I was there to be in the show. I hope he was disappointed that I wasn't. haha
So, my answer to "as what?" A crossdresser.

[Teresa]

Helen,
My first stop dressed when I did the rounds so to speak was at B&Q, I had to go directly to the checkout counter to make a return on a faulty item so the conversation was a little more involved , maybe I threw myself in at the deep end from the start , in those circumstances you often get a backup of customers waiting while the retun is processed . Once I dealt with that issue Sainsbury's was easy even though it was very busy as were the fuel pumps, I thought Halfords would pose more of a problem but even getting the wrong item the SA was very pleasant and helpful .

Nicole,
I understand your perspective , we are all on different points on the TG specrum , if you're happy with passing as a nice looking CDer that's fine I know I'm more down the TG road than that . The point I've made before is the general public don't know and possibly don't care , I guess they tar us all with same brush, if we don't offend them too much they are happy .

[Julie Slowinski]

I’m with Nicole on this one - not trying to fool anyone, just trying to be me being me. Anyone has a problem with that, then that’s exactly what it is, their problem.

[Sallee]

I think the worst case for most of us is that we confuse someof the people. They are not sure of our gender that is if we are noticed at all I usually don't think for the most part we are noticed at all.
I know there are some times when I can pass where ever I go and other times I am read by a blind person at 100'. Confidence is the key hold your head high and walk on
Oh and have FUN

[Helen_Highwater]

Helen,
My first stop dressed when I did the rounds so to speak was at B&Q

It's funny that we talk about shared experiences. The first time I'd been out shopping enfemme the tenth or so place I visited was that bastion of maleness, a B&Q DIY superstore. I needed some superglue for my false nails and when paying at the till I was served by a guy probably in his late 60's, early 70's. It was obvious from his body language he really didn't know how to deal with me, it really phased him. The correct use of pronouns just wasn't on this guys radar. The funny part was on the till behind him was a woman cashier probably in her 50's. I could see her smiling, not at my expense but at the discomfort of her colleague. I think she really felt for his awkward embarrassment.

I suppose I should also add that I was still learning how to present myself so we both gained a little something hopefully.

[docrobbysherry]

Many of u r missing something here. You're confusing acceptance with passing. As someone who has experienced both there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE!

I've been out zillions of times dressed. Altho, rarely to vanilla venues like Walmart or Dennys. When folks sense or can easily tell you're not a GG, they will treat u according to their personal bias/attitude toward trans. Or, as their employers instruct them to do. Many will accept u as u present. But, they KNOW!:straightface:

On the other hand, when I've been treated as a woman with no 2nd thots? Acceptance wasn't an issue any more! I was treated according to their bias for or against women who looked and acted as I did! :eek:

Passing and acceptance r really quite different to the people u encounter. However, those of u that pass all the time and those of u that r made, but routinely accepted, may not be aware of this!:straightface:

[girlyman1977]

At 6-4 I have zero prayers of passing. But I do want to eventually be able to go out in a sort of tongue in cheek kind of way. Honestly if I can go out and have women out there be like "damn Tina sort of looks ridiculous but I would still hit it" I would call it mission accomplished.

[Rachael Leigh]

Teresa much like you say passing is something most here won’t achieve 100 percent. I’ve come to accept that and as you say if we can learn as many mannerisms that help others at least question than I think that’s success.
Makeup also is something that can work too as long as you don’t overdo it.
For me I’m trans that’s how I expect others to see me and I’m good with that

[Beverley Sims]

Passing is all about confidence and fine tuning the fiddly bits.

[Linda Stockings]

To one extent or another, I agree with at least SOME (MOST) of the things emphasized in this thread. I've been out shopping in lady mode enough to have lost count long ago. A couple trips stick in my memory in great detail, others not so much. I think I should not have been surprized when the trip I feared the most is on my record as the best one Iv'e had, and the one I felt most confident with as I set out was the worst experience I've ever had while wearing any item of women's clothing. I really will try not to be too long winded here. My best trip was my first one, ironically. Especially since my makeup was so bad I looked like a monster, most parts of my outfit were comprised of cheap garments and didn't fit, and my attempt at style was terrible as well as an awful match to the occasion. I suffered no harassment of any kind in the mall or in any store I entered. In a higher class boutique, the senior SA waited on me patiently, getting me the best possible fit in the skirtsuit I was looking for (still wish I'd bought it). I could see clearly that she knew exactly what I am, but smiled kindly and said nothing about my obviously poor attempt to present as a woman with any kind of success. Yet she politely waited on me with grace, dignity, and perfect manners. She gave me a very nice complement on my blouse (the only stylish thing I wore), gave me truly helpful comments on the suit she helped me try on, and showed me where I would need the waist taken in to get a truly good fit for my figure. She explained how having it tailored is ALWAYS worth it, and that almost all off-the-rack fits are only a compromise. She gently pulled the sides in along the back near my waist and showed how much better it would all look on me. She said, "now THAT'S a great feminine Iook and fit for you". She followed it with, "you'll be amazed how wonderful you feel with clothes that actually fit you, especially clothes that highlight your best feminine appearance". I was a bit startled....she was really helping me to look and feel better, and present with more "blendability". I had never expected such, kind, professional help; and I did remember that it would be me paying HER in any sales.

The worst time was in a mall when a plain clothed security guard confronted me with his face inches from mine, as he loudly, so everyone around us heard, as he kept saying to me "ya look great, did ya find whatever it is you decided to come out for? I know I should NEVER have let such an ass, or his comment bother me then or now. But it really did back then. I had been out shopping while dressed many times at that point, all without incident. I'd only had friendly, courteous, helpful smiles, comments, and treatment until that point. It made me feel as though I had just barely survived being through an enemy's ambush kill zone. It rattled me and shook my confidence. I think of that wonderful first time far more often than that single bad one.

[sometimes_miss]

Passing is all about confidence and fine tuning the fiddly bits.
Nope, it's all about having the right bone structure to be able to have something decent to work with. Five foot two, 100 pounds and slender is a GREAT starting point, and at least there's hope. Six foot four, lineman physique, very definitive brow bone, big hands, size 16 feet, nope, no matter how confident I am, passing ain't gonna happen, no matter how much I fiddle. Then again, if I could fiddle like this, probably no one would care either way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGCsyshUU-A

[Kandi Robbins]

There is a big difference between "passing" (almost impossible) and "presenting well" (easily achieved). I never pass, been out hundreds of times. I present well, and as a result, have never had a negative experience and done so many different things. We are often our own worst enemies, worrying about things that never happen and not living our lives.

[Sara Jessica]

The worst time was in a mall when a plain clothed security guard confronted me with his face inches from mine, as he loudly, so everyone around us heard, as he kept saying to me "ya look great, did ya find whatever it is you decided to come out for? I know I should NEVER have let such an ass, or his comment bother me then or now. But it really did back then. I had been out shopping while dressed many times at that point, all without incident. I'd only had friendly, courteous, helpful smiles, comments, and treatment until that point. It made me feel as though I had just barely survived being through an enemy's ambush kill zone. It rattled me and shook my confidence. I think of that wonderful first time far more often than that single bad one.

You should have replied "Is that you, Paul Blart, mall cop?!?!"

Seriously, the passing thing is overrated as I have pointed out a number of times. No one knows what happens in their wake unless you have a wingman/woman who is able to assist (something a dear friend of mine and I have discussed doing but never have devoted the time or energy to do so). Whether you get by one glance or two or three before being read as who or what you are, what is more important is that you do it with class and others will treat you as such.

[DaisyLawrence]

We have to accept we can never achieve 100% , and we're fooling ourselves if we can

Speak for yourself. There are some definite 100%'ers here (along with some at less favourable percentages).

[Teresa]

Daisy ,
Sorry but the moment we talk and move we give away tell tale signs, looking for 100% can only lead to disapointment .

Linda,
That sales lady was so right , I felt comfortable because the clothes fitted , OK I'm still getting use to slim fitting ladies trousers . I know i've said this before but everyday is harder than dressing to the "nines " . If we overdo the makeup or go OTT with the clothes it's usually for a fun night out , everday jobs aren't all fun , that's where a little GG watching helps , seeing what they wear for everyday , how much makeup how well their hair is groomed .

I know I've read your story of the security guard before , we all know he was wrong but you couldn't do much about it and he knew that .

Sara,
I don't know if you recall but Marcelle ( Isha ) asked her wife to play wingman , it was an interesting outcome, she always said passing was an impossibility and she did have some interesting encounters . Sadly to the point of physical violence !

I must admit on my trip out recently I occasionally glanced behind me to see if anyone was having a jaw dropping moment or a fit of giggles , I didn't catch either I was just another shopper to them .

Sallee,
It's one of the reasons I couldn't do MIAD , my intention is not to confuse anyone , full time is what I'm aiming for so I have to get it as right as I can . I Know Kandi is right and it's also a comment Pat made that we do overthink things.

From the other side of the coin GGs must go out wearing something wondering if their rear end does look too big , or somthing make their boobs look bigger than they are comfortable with. Then there is the issue of hip and butt padding , as my dear GG friend in the bridal shop said, " What makes you think we want to carry all that extra baggage around with us . I don't need it and I don't use it , I'm a slim guy and a trim woman , I know the clothes that work for me.

[Rachelakld]

Seen GGs that 98% passed as 6ft 4 lumberjacks even when they weren't trying too.
Seen little GG's that 98% pass as skater boys, when they weren't trying too.
Seen little males that 98% pass as girls without trying
Seen big males with beer bellies and boobs, that 98% pass as big girls without trying.
IE bodies come in all shapes and sizes.

People see in me, what they want to see

[Teresa]

Rachel,
I know what you're saying , I get the impression they are a funny lot in NZ ,( only kidding !) I notice you didn't say 100% in your examples . I know I keep geeting comments from TSs especially that I pass very well or I'm very convincing , it's very kind of them to say that but I wonder if we ever lose those nagging doubts. I still wonder what goes through some TSs minds when they stand maked infront of a mirror , do they still question their decision, is there still that little male voice telling them this isn't right .

I couldn't help think that the other day, I was naked in front of the mirror looking at my male parts wondering what difference does it really make when the makeup and clothes go on . The fact is the public don't know and mostly don't care , no one has ever asked me if I still have a willy or not or are my boobs real !

[Rogina B]

Be good to people and most all will be good to you !

[Sara Jessica]

Sara,
I don't know if you recall but Marcelle ( Isha ) asked her wife to play wingman , it was an interesting outcome, she always said passing was an impossibility and she did have some interesting encounters . Sadly to the point of physical violence !

I must admit on my trip out recently I occasionally glanced behind me to see if anyone was having a jaw dropping moment or a fit of giggles , I didn't catch either I was just another shopper to them .

Yes, I recall those stories from Isha.

My friend Diana and I have been kicking this around for about as long as we have known one another. It came out of her being very defensive when she would go out with me. Thing is, we can look over our shoulder on occasion and all seems fine but it takes the wingman/woman to actually engage the Muggles in your wake in conversation in order to coax a reaction out of otherwise politeness. Or to see what people are holding in until they are certain you are out of earshot. This is where the passing thing is most objectively measured because not perceiving being read does not passing make.

And besides, most of us are exposed when we open up our mouths and actually converse with others. Several here have talked about being mute when out & about and thinking how wonderful it is. I can't imagine anything worse, being in a place we want to be and limiting ourselves by refusal to talk. Besides, as has been said, you have likely already been read by others without talking. Might as well own who you are and enjoy being among others to the fullest extent.

[DaisyLawrence]

Daisy ,
Sorry but the moment we talk and move we give away tell tale signs, looking for 100% can only lead to disapointment .

Again, speak for yourself. Maybe you should work on your walk and speech. I say again, there are 100% passers in the world but you wouldn't know it because, quite simply, they pass 100% and therefore they are essentially just another female. You've probably even fancied one over the years. How could you know if they truely pass.

[Pat]

I feel like I pass very, very well because pretty much everyone who sees me knows I'm a transgender person -- and that's what I am. ;) I think the key to happiness lies in accepting yourself and then you'll know you look exactly how you should look and if anyone has a fit of giggles about you they're the ones who have a problem.

[CONSUELO]

Yesterday I was in a Chico's, a female clothing store that is popular especially with more mature women. I was searching the racks to see if I liked anything and also observing the clientele. The range of body shapes was large and the range of dressing, from rather shabby looking to well turned out, was also large.
Perhaps the answer for us cross dressers is to always try to look as good as possible with tasteful choices in clothing and makeup, be pleasant to those we interact with and not react to the few strangers who just cannot control their behaviour.
Teresa noted a conversation with a fellow dog walker. When she told him that he might sometimes see her in female mode he just requested that she do it well and not like the awful apparition he saw walking along the street in the local town with a terrible wig and poor choice of clothing. If people see you have taken pride in your appearance and conduct yourself with confidence then they will probably just leave you alone.

[Zoeytgtx]

The question of passing has gone through quite an evolution in my own head. I was always concerned about making sure that my hair, makeup, and clothing was spot on and situation appropriate. I spent a lot of time watching women and how they interact with each other and the public in general. My job in adult education also forced me to come out of my own shell and most times initiate the interaction with my clients. I soon learned the same lesson about Zoey. When Zoey initiated the conversation with others that was a big key to being accepted easily when I was out dressed. If I initiated contact and talked with people in public they were quite fine with continuing the conversation and pretty soon were not looking at me but interacting with me even dressed as a woman. Distraction?? Maybe....
That interaction created a lot of confidence on my part being Zoey, and that confidence and watching how other other women interact, brought a lot of poise to my presentation. To me it was a bunch of baby steps that grew together into who I am today.
I suspect to my friends who knew I dressed, I probably sounded like I lacked confidence because I would also be asking do I look OK or is my hair out of sort or most importantly are people looking at me strangely. Finally a good friend told me people look at you not as a crossdresser, but because you present as a pretty, confident, poised woman. That gets noticed when ANY woman steps into the room who has that poise and confidence. You do not have to be the prettiest or the best dressed but the poise and confidence gets noticed everywhere. Initiating conversations and contact with the general public for me was what gave my confidence such a boost. You really do completely forget about yourself. My poise in public has become a much higher priority to physical appearance.
With that poise, I really stopped being so shy and started going about life as Zoey. The resonse I get is pretty amazing.

Hugs, Zoey

[Jenny22]

I like the "wing man" analogy. If you can become personal friends with a "seasoned sister" from the forum, you'd be surprised at how at ease you'll be when you go out with her.It really worked for me.

[Teresa]

Daisy,
OK go argue the point ! Even if I worked on my speech and walk every single day it still wouldn't give me a 100% pass rating ! You only have to read some of the threads in the TS section to realise this . I dress to be me as you do, it's not an act , a false voice and a sexy wriggle still isn't going to change that , besides it's impossible to keep that illusion up .

[Helen_Highwater]

I'm willing to acknowledge that there are a few, a very few, who without the aid of surgery or hormones can pass 99.99% of the time. There will always be the exception to the rule, the tiny thing that casts doubt into an observers mind.

That said in my view is we shouldn't fall into the trap of seeking that holy grail. Some will come closer than others by virtue of having a small frame and stature. Lucky them. What those of us who have been out need to focus on is the message that you definitely don't need to pass to be able to go out and interact in the muggle world. It's a myth, a falsehood that the only way you'll be able to safely get out and present yourself is if you look like a size 0 fashion model.

Presenting well, and by that it's dressing in the everyday clothing GG's wear and being prepared to confidently interact when out is the secret to success. Sure if you're going clubbing glam it up a bit but if your aim is food or clothes shopping, traveling on public transport, grabbing a coffee, dress to be Ms Average and do so with confidence. That's what the vast majority of those here who go out do and with great success.

"I won't go out until I know I pass" is what's kept so many caged in their own homes needlessly. We need not to discuss passing but talk about how easy it is by following a few basic rules to be able to get out there and fully express ourselves. The message should be writ large, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE 100% PASSABLE TO GO OUT. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO 100%!

[Sara Jessica]

Right on, Teresa & Helen. I'll add that the 1% who can 100% pass are not likely hanging around in these pages. They are living their lives as the women they are. This is not to say there aren't some very remarkable presentations here but one has to keep in mind that pictures do not tell the entire story. The photo may be one of a hundred with the other 99 being far from convincing. And then there are the IRL factors: Voice, walk, decorum, grace, etc., all of which are much more difficult to master naturally for anyone who was raised/socialized male. These things don't translate so well to photographs aside from grace when evidenced in a perfect pose.

No one is saying we shouldn't try our best either. Helen's closing comment should be required reading for anyone considering going out into this wonderful world of ours.

Finally, Zoey nicely describes getting over her own hurdles and how this helped her self confidence. I'll add that when you work through these things and put the holy grail of passing on the back burner where it belongs, life becomes much more enjoyable.

[CynthiaD]

I've passed a lot of times, even while speaking. I've also been clocked a number of times. But I don't see that as the point. The only person you need to pass with is yourself. When I go out, I'm a Lady. Period. If you see something else, you're wrong. Too bad for you.

Too often, I think, getting clocked raises feelings of shame and guilt. There's no reason for this. Yeah, I'm not the prettiest girl in town. I may have a deep voice and walk funny, but I'm still a Lady, and I expect to be treated like a Lady.

[Jane G]

I don't pass when I look in the mirror. I'm 6' 4 " I have massive hands, massive feet. My wife does not think I pass. So however feminine I might feel, I know I don't come close to passing, never will . It used to hurt, but what the heck, life goes on and I have a very good life. I very much doubt I will ever have the pleasure of dancing in a night club, as a woman, something I would love to do, I love dancing. But there is so much more to life than dressing, as important to me personally as it has always been.

My partner and my kids will always come first. There are things you can influence and there are things that you simply have to except.:shush:

[Teresa]

Helen,
I agree it's so easy to cage youself up fearing if every details isn't right you won't be able to do it . OK I do fall into the small frame group, I do consider myself very lucky and admit it makes it so much easier .

Sara,
I may have relied on pictures and may still may do at times but my avatar picture was one of about half a dozen , very often it's a one off , asking people to take some pictures usually means they are prepared to take a couple of snaps and that's it .

[Jeri Ann]

Right on, Teresa & Helen. I'll add that the 1% who can 100% pass are not likely hanging around in these pages. They are living their lives as the women they are.


I am in my tenth month of transition and it has gotten increasingly more difficult to come back to the forum. I have many trans friends who have never heard of this forum. I am on the planning committee for the Texas Transgender Anti-discrimination Summit. At a meeting a couple of months ago I met Maddie. We were in close proximity and engaged in conversation for over an hour before I wrote her off as a gg political candidate seeking support. Later in the evening I overheard her mention the word transition. It turns out that she transitioned six years ago and is a mom to the four sons that she fathered. There was not one clue that she wasn't a gg. At the same meeting I met Kayla. Same thing, different story but a vision of loveliness. You can Google "Blind Butterflies" and find Kayla's website.


This is not to say there aren't some very remarkable presentations here but one has to keep in mind that pictures do not tell the entire story. The photo may be one of a hundred with the other 99 being far from convincing.


PIctures are usually kind, even when they are not altered.


And then there are the IRL factors: Voice, walk, decorum, grace, etc., all of which are much more difficult to master naturally for anyone who was raised/socialized male. These things don't translate so well to photographs aside from grace when evidenced in a perfect pose.

There are five ways that human beings communicate, even unintentionally. They are: (1) The words we say, (2) Voice inflection, (3) Facial expressions, (4) Body position, (5) Gestures. All of these things can be worked on. For me, voice is a constraint. In person I present enough visual clues that voice is a giveaway maybe half the time, On the phone, however, I am misgendered 100% of the time. For that reason I have an evaluation scheduled at the University of Houston Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders. They have a program that helps transgenders with voice training.


Finally, Zoey nicely describes getting over her own hurdles and how this helped her self confidence. I'll add that when you work through these things and put the holy grail of passing on the back burner where it belongs, life becomes much more enjoyable.

When I first saw Zoey she was sitting in a hotel lobby. I paid her no mind as we checked in. I unconsciously pegged her as a gg just passing time. A group of us, including Zoey, had plans to meet for an afternoon and evening of activities. We connected by phone a few minutes later and shortly after met in person. Zoey's poise and confidence that she has gained is obvious. But, at the end of the day all that matters is being yourself and authentically engaging people. The best advice I can give anybody is to stop looking for reactions from people. That is not a normal behavior and will get you flagged for sure.

[Tracii G]

I agree with Zoey.
Attitude and confidence are very key things to have as far as your presentation is concerned.
When presenting as a woman you will be noticed there is no getting around that and yes there will be people assessing your appearance.
You can go all out to the 9's or be casual but always try to be tasteful and dressed properly for where you are.
In that I mean as other women are dressed.

[Lana Mae]

I think I agree with Pat on this one! Be confident in who you are and you will succeed! If "they" don't like it it is there problem not yours! Hugs Lana Mae

[Jaymees22]

My new goal is not to pass as a female but pass as "full time". The best we can do is be ourselves present and act normally, then hope for the best.

[Aunt Kelly]

"Passing" is, when you take the time to pin down and examine what we are really talking about, all about the management of two things, awareness in the observer and cues in the subject. As Jeri Ann points out, those cues are not just the physical characteristics we carry, they are also our mannerisms, speech, facial expression, etc. In the meeting she speaks of, Jeri Ann's awareness was set on maximum, and yet she missed whatever cues there might have been that would have enabled her to spot a peer. I'll wager that it was Maddie's comfort in her own skin, her natural feminine self that kept her above Jeri Ann's keen awareness. That, is passing, in my book. I recognize that not everyone defines it that way. I do not consider it "passing" when the cues meet the awareness of the observer and the realization is made, but the interaction continues without a shift in the gender-based rules of social decorum. Calling that acceptance isn't quite right, though maybe that's as close as we're going to get. It's certainly not "blending", mind you. That's what we do when we manage to keep cues and awareness from meeting. Whatever we call it, it is our comportment and our behaviors that will invite others to keep on with the interaction with us as female. Does it always work? Of course not, but it's effect is undeniable.

[Stephanie47]

IMHO I do not think people who recognize you as a man really accept you as a woman. It is obvious from reading the newspapers or watching news casts many people believe transgender men and women are suffering from mental illness. Talk to some politicians! I know people who are of that persuasion. I also know people who accept the premise there are men and women born into the wrong physical body. When it comes to interacting with a cross dresser I really do not know what most people believe.

What I have encountered is a wide range of reactions. Some people are inclined to assault transgender men and women, gays and lesbians, and cross dressers. Why? No particular reasoning. Just because. When it comes to interacting with transgender men and women and cross dressers I think many people do a "threat assessment." The old bathroom law arises. Do you want that big burly male presenting as a woman in the ladies' restroom? There is no opportunity to ever get to know the person or the person's intentions. If a cross dresser is well attired, of smaller physical stature, and acts cordial in a women's clothing store or an art class, I think a quick "threat assessment" is made. The conclusion is the person is not a personal threat to safety.

Don't say I'm wrong on the threat assessment. You make a "threat assessment" every time you're out in the public and stop someone who is out of place. You tend to avoid them or at least make a mental note of potential danger. Of course, the most courteous and pleasant appearing man or woman may be the most dangerous person you meet today.

I would hope a transgender man or woman would be accepted for who he or she believes himself or herself to be. If I do not profess to be a transgender woman when attired in female clothing I would never believe anyone would accept me as a woman. I would hope I would be accepted as a non-threatening person.

[Joanne108]

I really try to do my best when I dress as a woman to present as a woman. However whenever I'm shopping out in the wild, I don't try to pretend that I'm not a guy if they guess right. I usually just tell the sales person that I'm a CD they look, smile and say "Have a good day". I dress for me not for others.

[Teresa]

Jeri Ann,

Your last sentence did make me think how right you are , stop looking for reactions !

I admit that is harder than it appears , epecially when you overhear a convesation concerning you . I overheard a couple debating whether I was a woman or not , in that instance the wife wanted a paper I had been reading so I approached them to offer it .

My daytime outing a few days ago went very well because I was going out to do some jobs around the my town so I was more immersed in them rather than wondering what people thought , Ok I did notice when passing through the supermarket checkout how so few people even noticed I had walked past them , I admit it did feel good to feel part of the community and not a social oddity .

[Krisi]

Before we can say if we "pass" we have to define "passing".

Do people see you as a woman at 50 feet? How about 20 feet? Three feet? How about when you speak? How about in a situation like a restaurant where they can observe you for an extended time at close range?

How about a bar and dancing with a guy? Or being intimate?

Passing is a moving target but we are all somewhere on the scale.

[suzanne]

I make no effort to pass as a woman, but when I'm dressed, plenty of women are prepared to take me at face value and converse with me as though I was one of the girls. Its about attitude. I believe I belong where I am and I act appropriately and they seem to glide past the fact that I'm not really a woman.

If you want to be accepted by the world, then show the world that you accept yourself. Show that you're comfortable dressed in the way that makes you happy. How you feel about yourself is more important than how you look. Get rid of the fear and guilt. They have been put there by a society that has it all wrong

[Becky Blue]

Great question Teresa - I dont really think that passing is the right word, I think blending is much more appropriate. I think that everyone gives off gender markers. so its about the level of interaction and the gender markers. Let me explain myself... When I went out to the Casino recently, I had an amazing makeover done and dressed very simply in a plain black dress and low heels. I so what markers was i providing?
Female: clothes, hair, makeup, boobs, handbag
Neutral: Height 5 11 (can still be a tall girl), size - I am small across shoulders and chest for a guy and am quite slim, smallish hands and arms
Male: Voice

So as long as i kept quiet people saw me saw my mostly Female outward markers and did not process further.

Now lets take a hypothetical, I was sitting at a table at the bar and say someone came to sit with me, even if I kept my mouth shut i would say there would be a fairly high chance that they would pick me. Why? because those outward Female markers are not enough, if they got close they would possibly see my facial structure is more M than F (makeup helps a lot for a quick glance) they may pick up on other male markers that are impossible to hide.

So I believe as long as you don't have too many male markers one can blend and been thought of as a woman by most people, but few of us can get past a close scrutiny...

[DIANEF]

Although I know I don't pass I do seem able to blend without too much difficulty. I am not at the interacting stage yet, but in all the times I have been out I have had no reaction whatsoever (that I am aware of). Having said that as soon as I open my mouth the maleness will be obvious and every other tell tale sign will jump out (big hands, adams apple, ect). When interacting does happen I will just have to deal with it as best I can.

[Helen_Highwater]

Diane,

Yep that first interaction can be scary. Having said that if you sum up a great many of the comments in this thread I think it's fair to say the outcomes don't warrant the intrepidation.

Accept you'll be read, that's the first thing. Have in your mind the thought, "So what". From there on in you're good to go. I will add it's better to be in control for those first interactions. Sort of choosing your battles. Pick a place and time on your choosing, I would suggest you can't beat M&S, (Cheshire Oaks?)pull up yer big girls knickers and step un-manfully over the threshold.

Then pick an item to buy, join the queues and when served look the SA in the eye, smile and be nice and chatty.

Passing doesn't matter. Being a nice human does. That's the secret reiterated many times here because it's true. And having done that reward yourself with a cuppa and a bun in the cafe. Interaction No 2. Now you're on a roll. See how easy it is?

So let's say it again, passing doesn't matter. Dress to blend, I think you've nailed that, and just be natural, polite and chat. You're off and running.

[DIANEF]

Your right as usual Helen. I didn't think I could actually go out of the door until I did it, so I know what the next step is. With my limited time Cheshire Oaks is a bit far, but there are other places!

[DaisyLawrence]

Passing doesn't matter. Being a nice human does. That's the secret reiterated many times here because it's true.

It is true that it is hard to dislike someone that is nice to you so being friendly first off (call it a pre-emptive happiness strike) will always achieve positive results. But you are a pretty girl Diane so I reckon if you speak softly then you may not be read at all, you may leave just enough womanly clues to keep them guessing. They may wonder but that is different to being clocked for sure. Plenty of GG's have deeper voices, Bonnie Tyler for one. :)

[AshleyWalker]

Passing ? Acceptance ? or really just Confidence ?

My physical stature prevents me from EVER being 100% "Passable". I am 6'5" and wear a Men's 48 Long suit, people will do a double take on me if I am in drab, if I do go out a woman of that height is going to attract attention no matter what, not something that you would see every day.

My hopes of ever being able to pass are long gone, what I am working on is the Confidence in my self to be able be what I want to be when and where I want to be that.

It is tough, I am not an in your face type person, and try to always be accommodating to my fellow human beings thinking more of how uncomfortable they are or would be, being put into the position of having to react to something so foreign to them.

As I have gotten older my overall personal confidence increased significantly, I honestly don't care about the idiots that would say something mean or offensive, they have their own issues.

I need to work on the Confidence to interact with, or not react to someone that may look twice and possibly giggle and nudge their friend, stop and stare, or even ask me a question, or accept a compliment from them.

[Helen_Highwater]

Ashley,

At 6'5" it'll be either someone extremely brave or utterly foolhardy who mocks you to your face.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I don't pass. Yes I've have GG's nudge their friend to look, I've had a GG exclaim "Oh look", more in surprise than anything else. I've had the odd stare or even scowl but at the end of the day it's all in the mind. If you make the decision not to let it bother you then you're good to go.

It is tough, I am not an in your face type person, and try to always be accommodating to my fellow human beings thinking more of how uncomfortable they are or would be, being put into the position of having to react to something so foreign to them. It sounds to me like you already have the right attitude. It goes back to the principal that if you're nice, others will 99% of the time respond accordingly.

I know just what it takes to go out there. It took me years and that first time fully out certainly had my heart racing and butterflies crashing about. All I can say is I hope you find the opportunity to experience that feeling of being out in muggle land and having control of your own destiny. Good fortune.