Crossdressing vs Furries.--et al.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Several Years ago I discovered that there are people who instead of wanting to dress like members of the opposite sex, they dress like ANIMALS instead---they call themselves "Furies". I read up on them and noticed very similar psychological and social patterns in furies and Crossdressers. A fascinating study. They get "turned-on" by dressing as an animal, just as SOME cross dressers get turned by dressing. Furries have a big web and "underground" presense, but we seldom hear from them. (Apparently SEXUALITY anomalies in humans draws the most attention).-------

I asked myself why the ANIMAL thing, then it occurred to me that our brains appear to have a "hierarchy of binaries" that our personalities are based on --Exist/non exist, animate/inanimate, human/animal, male/female, heterosexual/Homosexual-----Each of these "binaries" seem to have a "switch" set at birth, normally, in accordance with the biosex of the baby ------Should one or more of these switches be set in an "abnormal position" it would be reflected in the personality and behavior of the individual.

A transsexual, for example, may have the male/female AND Hetero/homosexual switches abnormally set. a (clinical) crossdresser would have male/female set abnormally, but the hetero/Homosexual switch and the biosex would serve to keep the person a NON Transsexual, but still cause a connection to the oppose sex in some way (I. E. Crossdressing) SO, I would imagine a FURRY would have the human/animal switch in the abnormal position. -----And YES the theory holds through to lower levels too. there are people who fanaticize about being INANIMATE objects AND there are cases of people who feel they "do not exist". Indeed, it is quite fun to imaging different "switch" settings in the personality heirachy and what would the resulting personality be ----And often you can FIND it in the literature.

Hey, I am both a Psychology and Physics nerd. This deep stuff fascinates me and I thought I would share it with those who might find some interest in it. (I don't call myself "Resident Polymath" for nothing)

[Maria Blackwood]

I don’t know all that much about it, but I really don’t think it falls under the beastiality umbrella. They appear to mimic anthropomorphic characters, sapient races (often from existing fictional works) based on various animals. These characters are more like alien races than animals.

If you ever played the Elder Scrolls RPGs there’s a cat race (Khajiit) and lizard race (Argonians). They’re not beasts, they have civilizations. It seems more like that.

Since you’re interested, I googled a bit. Here’s a top hit.

Link: Discussion thread on furry subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comments/4f4qj3/how_is_a_furry_fetish_the_same_as_beastiality/)

Not a furry myself but I did recently write an erotic scene between my human POV character and a cat based anthro character, with emphasis on them discovering the other race’s sexual... protocols, I guess you could say. It’s part of a larger story. The POV character becomes a pirate queen and the cat lady her first mate. It’s very romantic. :)

But the cat lady is not a beast. She’s a being with hopes and dreams from a rich and ancient culture, even if she occasionally can be distracted by a laser pointer.

[Tracii G]

Maria what you write about or in RPG is just fantasy.
Furries are out there in their little groups just like CDers are to some degree.
Its a fantasy those people are into and thats ok I don't care what they do.I wouldn't call it beastiality.
I don't personally know anyone into that.
Its called freedom to be yourself so I don't judge them.
What I do or am isn't a fantasy so there is a big difference.

[Maria Blackwood]

Someone did, but the post I responded to is gone.

The takeaway is that Furry looks mostly like just a cosplay subgenre to me.

[Micki_Finn]

To be honest, I’m extremely uncomfortable with discussions about various groups when members of said group are not present to participate, and feel like no good can come of this thread.

[KimberlyJean]

I have seen some of the female suits that look like they would be fun to try on. But I like costumes and it seems like an elaborate costume to me.

[Beverley Sims]

There are other types of escapes, like those that want to be dressed as babies or small children is another one.

[Majella St Gerard]

Not touching this one.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Someone did, but the post I responded to is gone.

The takeaway is that Furry looks mostly like just a cosplay subgenre to me.

My readings about furrys/Furries and looking at their forums, suggest that it is VERY similar to CD and not some kind of Cosplay---that is what intrigued me about it. its like CD with the (distracting) GENDER element removed from it, and might provide vast insights into our own conditions as CDers. If not Male vs Female, then its Human vs Animal----and who knows what more---The concept of a hierarchy of such "binaries" in the personality structure became apparent.

Beverly---Yes "Young vs old" could be another binary, I know I could not remember them all--but there are only a few of them.

Miki----No progress can be made if we do not speculate---other groups are free to input here too. Indeed, I encourage it. I know I cannot be entirely right, myself. You do not have to participate if you are "uncomfortable". (no offence intended) I DO like to dig deep into the subject matter.

What I am doing (on the side) is a form of "Functional analysis Psychology" sort of "flowcharting" and studying the Processes of the brain.----as I AM a physical Scientist, my approach to the subject is more structured than "fuzzy". Something hard to do with Psychology. I simply am Curious and want answers for myself and others --Mysteries, even of day to day life intrigue me. This is sort of a "Hey look what I observed or may have discovered, what's your opinion?" kind of thing. Its not like I use others for "guinea pigs" for experiments.

[docrobbysherry]

Ok, I know something of which u speak. The most important word involved is, "fetish". Many, if not most, of all these weirdly dressed up folks get turned on by it!:o

I am intimately familiar with rubber, fetish dressers. And, suspect most my kig, cosply, and furry friends do it for kinky, fetish, thrills, too.

Now, here's where crossdressing comes into all this. I know many "male" rubber and fetish dressers that only present as exaggerated females. And, "male" maskers who only wear female masks. I guess I'm one. I and they r excited presenting as females. Where as presenting in ANY sort of male form does nothing for us! Most of them r trans by definition.

The same is likely true for kigs, cosplayers, and furries. I know many "males" who prefer to, or only wear female costumes.
While at WonderCon last weekend, I saw 1000's of folks dressed in costumes. Yet, I could count the number of males in female costumes on the fingers of one hand. That would include me and my T companion, too!

This is very much like the costume dressers here. They rarely if ever boast or post pics in male costumes. It's practically always about their female costumes. Because they get a thrill portraying mythical females nearly as much as I do!:daydreaming:

[SometimesJen]

Marina, I understand your concept of the binary switches and think it could lead to some interesting mental explorations. I also see parallels between the range of cd'ers (sexual/non, personal identity/merely presentation, etc.) and furries, but I have to agree with Tracii that this may not be the best place for in depth discussion of the similarities. It seems many people here simply lack the requisite experience with furries. You may have better luck on a cosplay board. Most of my friends who are into cosplay and/or experienced with furries are also experienced with non-binary gender identity and presentation and would have no problem with such a discussion.

Btw, in discussing this with my SO she suggested that you may not want to call cd'ing a "condition." In her words, "it's not a disease." No offense intended or taken.

[kayegirl]

Each to their own, provided that they don't try to force their thing onto me.

[pamela7]

I did have a good discussion a couple of years ago with a member who is both CD and "furry". Animal archetypes are one of the fundamental forms the human tribes fit into, together with the less-easily observable plant and mineral forms of archetypes (ents and trolls in tolkien world). While one of the fetishist things might be in common, the cartoon furries are imprinted by early childhood tv experiences by and large, whereas the real deal are the therianthropes (see Grimm TV series for a better idea of the concept). I used to do the whole werewolf thing myself, and it was for me completely unrelated and independent of the sexuality aspects.

The ancient egyptians, among others, knew all this, and far more than the retarded humans of today.

xx Pam

[Maria Blackwood]

I ran across the term “exophilia” years ago when researching my own fetishistic leanings.

Wikipedia link (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exophilia)

I confess I have it in spades. It’s the most frustrating fetish possible due to a rather extreme lack of potential supernatural or extraterrestrial partners. :(

Seems furries could possibly fit under this term.

[NicoleScott]

This thread is making me think my fetishes are pretty normal. I think they are a result of imprinting at a very young age.

[LilSissyStevie]

Furries are just the tip of the iceberg. There are also Therians: animals trapped in a human body (dogs, birds, whales, etc.) and Otherkin: mythical creatures trapped in a human body (unicorns, vampires, elves, etc.) Since I'm a fairy trapped in a man's body, does that make me an Otherkin or are we talking about different kinds of fairies?:heehee:

[Ceera]

Okay, here is a resident "Furry" to join the conversation. I've consciously been a member of that particular fandom for over 30 years, and for practical purposes, since childhood, though I didn't know the name for it, or that it was an organized fandom, until I was in my late 20's. In fact, when I was a child, the term 'Furry" didn't yet exist, though people who fit the term certainly did. My daughter, who is now 22, has been a member of the furry fandom since she was maybe eight years old, when she attended her first furry convention with me.

"Furry" is a fandom, like "My Little Pony" fans (Bronies), "Star Trek" fans (Trekkies), "Doctor Who" fans (Whovians), Cosplayers, anime fans, science fiction fan's, etc. "Furries" is the term for a loosely associated and very diverse group of people who share one thing in common - they like the idea of anthropomorphic animals - animals that walk and talk like people. But like any fandom, you're only a 'furry' if you consider yourself part of that fandom. Someone can like any of the things I list below and still not think of themselves as a 'Furry.

People who love Bugs Bunny cartoons are Furries - Bugs is an anthropomorphic bunny (who incidentally also cross-dresses on occasion). People who love x-rated cartoons like "Fritz The Cat" are also furries. People who love art or stories featuring anthropomorphic animals in any form, clean or x-rated or anywhere in between, are furries.

Some Furries do want to 'be' an animal. or feel a particular kinship to a specific type of animal - but that isn't true for most of them. I have met both Therians and Otherkin at Furry conventions, but only a few who identified that way.

People who work as sports mascots that are animals are often also furries.

Some do get 'turned on' by furry art, stories or costumes, and treat it as a sexualized fetish. But quite a few more enjoy it in complete innocence, as a totally non-sexual thing. A common, and quite incorrect, assumption by many outsiders who see someone in the Furry fandom is that they must be sex fetishists or into bestiality. But that simply isn't true, for most of the fandom.

Some Furries do have an interest in bestiality, but that would be a very small percentage of them. Honestly, no more than in any other segment of society. (Think about it, if bestiality was a kink you were into, would you call attention to yourself by running around dressed like an animal? I doubt it.)

Some do treat Furry activities as a 'lifestyle', and if given a chance they will wear animal costumes or act like an animal as much as they can get way with - but that is an exceedingly small percentage of the group.

Many - but by no means all - furries are gay, or bi, or are cross-dressers. Gay males seem attracted to the group, in part because, like may other fan groups, the furry fandom is, as a whole, quite accepting of people who are 'different'. I'd say well over half of the people who consider themselves to be 'Furries' are gay or bi males. A large percentage - also well over half - of the people who wear female-appearing animal costumes, are actually males, cross-dressing as a female character. Some of the male characters are also being played by females inside the costume.

Those animal costumes, which the fandom calls 'fursuits', are quite expensive. A very simple partial costume, with a full head mask, a tail to attach to your belt, and hand-paws, can run well over $500 US dollars - even if you make it yourself. A full body costume can easily run $1,500 to $2,500. And I have met at least two people who spent more than $10,000 to $15,000 on their highly-detailed 'fursuit' costume. Many have moving mouths. Many have hidden cooling systems, so you don't overheat while wearing all that fur. Some of them even incorporate animatronic features to allow facial expressions, blinking eyes, and twitching ears. It's more common for a Furry to just wear a tail and/or a set of ears to show others that they are part of the fandom. Less than a quarter of the Furries I have met own any sort of animal costume, beyond maybe a tall and ears.

I have, and wear, an animal costume (a fox) that I made myself. It's designed so I can make it appear to be either male or female, depending on the clothes and padding worn with it. I wear it to furry conventions anime conventions, cosplay conventions, science fiction conventions, and I even perform as a stage magician while wearing it. Sometimes, just for fun, I might wear it while taking a stroll through a public park, alone or in a group with others in costume, just to have fun entertaining people who happen to see me. I also write stories and create art featuring a Furry theme, with anthropomorphic animal characters.

As for the original poster's ideas about a mental 'switch' that leads to a Furry inclination, I'd say that is over-simplified. It might be true for some, certainly. But the fandom is much too diverse for such a simple explanation.

Pics are myself and my daughter in our fursuits, and some furry art that I drew.

[Maria Blackwood]

Most impressive one I’ve seen recently was a cosplay of “M’aiq The Liar”, a recurring character in the Elder Scrolls game series. He’s a Khajiit who shows up randomly and dispenses pithy, humorous comments if you talk to him.

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