Rate, out of 10

[Helen_Highwater]

We've all done surveys that ask us to rate out of 10, 1 being least liked.... or given 5 choices, Really like, like, neither like or dislike....etc.

I was wondering if the general public were to be asked their opinion on Trans/CD'ers given most peoples apathy the results would come out rated 5 out of 10 or neither like or dislike.

We've discussed the merits of using terms such as accepted and tolerated in regard to how the public treats us but isn't a better term "Indifferent". I know it can sound a derogatory term but does it not best describe in all likelihood how we're viewed.

Doesn't it explain how even when we don't come close to passing we're able to move amongst the crowds freely? People are indifferent to us.

No malice, take us or leave us, neither liked or disliked, not bothered one way or the other. If this is the case then I feel it's a good thing. I'll take that.

[DIANEF]

Having been out several times I would say the majority of people are indifferent. As almost none of us truly pass it is obvious some people will notice that there is a CDer in their midst, but it is rare for anyone to say anything as either they don't care or are too wrapped up in their own little world. . Of course there is always someone who has to make a point about something but nowadays being under the 'LGBT' umbrella is more acceptable than it was in the past. I think it also partly depends on when and where you go. Personally I have had no negative reactions of any kind (so far) while I have been out.

[Lana Mae]

Generally speaking, indifferent! I have had one look of shock, one look of disgust, one second look with indifferent expression, and one look back and giggle from two teenage girls(but may not have been me!)! Nothing verbal as of yet! Hugs Lana Mae

[Taylor186]

I think it is a mistake to equate no comment or no reaction with indifference. I see a lot of people while out who, IMO, are dressed atrociously or are acting atrociously but I never say anything to them. Mostly I ignore them, and that is quite different than being indifferent.



I have had one look of shock, one look of disgust, one second look with indifferent expression, and one look back and giggle from two teenage girls(but may not have been me!)!

This small "poll" signifies anything but indifference to me. Four out of five gave a negative reaction.

[DaisyLawrence]

The world is certainly becoming more accepting of different types of people, however their views of strangers and what people who know you may differ somewhat, I certainly couldn't go out dressed in my small town.

I think you meant "parts of the world" Leanne. Pretty sure things aren't too accepting in Tehran for example. Certainly up here in the north east of England I see no problem for gender variant presentations at all. I've never seen a reaction or 'double take' myself but then my wife assures me I can be as womanly as the next girl so I guess that's a pass. I know a couple of local trans women who do not blend so well despite living 24/7 (a bald head draws scrutiny for one) and I see them regularly going out and about their lives in the local area. I have yet to see any negative reaction from locals or the very many tourists that frequent our beautiful area from all over the world. I can only speak for where I live but round here I believe people are more than tolerant, welcoming even, and certainly not indifferent. There is nothing we like more round here than people to be interesting at least and non-compliant gender expression is nothing but interesting. What a life, don't you just love it :)

[NicoleScott]

I often describe my wife's attitude towards my crossdressing as indifferent, and that's not intended to be negative, just accurate. She's neither disgusted nor excited by it, somewhere between tolerating and accepting, and non-participating.
I agree with Taylor that no comment/reaction isn't the same as indifferent, but it may be a distinction without a difference, in practical terms anyway. So you go out and get no comment or reaction, you don't know if people are indifferent, minding their own business, or are restraining themselves from confronting you. For whatever reason, you're left alone.

[Beverley Sims]

I think we are sailing on a boat between four and six.

Yes sometimes as low as three that is disregarding the rednecks and teenage girls.

[Tracy Irving]

Planted firmly in the middle, "Indifferent" is a fine word to use.

Often enough on this site I have used the word "tolerance". I would like for crossdressing to be tolerated by the masses. I understand it is a lofty goal but way more achievable than "acceptance". I have no interest in telling others how to think.

[Taylor186]

It is situational. You may be treated indifferently walking around the streets or mall or mass retailer but if you are found in the women's restroom it can be an entirely different story. You may think a recruiter is indifferent but go to the job interview crossdressed and you are likely to find that they are not really indifferent. Some of the most LGBT tolerant people I know don't want to be married to to a member of that group.

I just don't think the experiences that many have written about here on CD'rs.com show true, widespread indifference by the general public.

[Diane Taylor]

Have you ever read the comments people leave on the Yahoo news when there's a GLBT issue in the headlines. it's totally full of hate. Maybe it's just the "haters" who respond but it shows that there are a lot of them out there.

[Jaylyn]

Beverley I can't believe you would not consider "Red Necks" because I consider myself as one. In fact I know many in here that would be considered one. I enjoy doing the outdoor activities on the farm and even called crazy but I do support our cause. I even love dressing and have since I can remember being a young kid.
I'm thinking like Helen that most people are indifferent they might look and snicker but I would bet the majority would not say a word about us. I'm thinking the young teens and the really elderly, and even a few red necks are the ones that would rate us low. My wife is more indifferent after being fully accepting at first. I do know she like to point out any CDs to me when she sees one of us.

[char GG]

Taylor and Nicole make good points. Indifference from the public does not mean others do not have an opinion, they are too polite or shy to say anything. It may be impolite to even comment positively because that means the CDer has been read.

There are people with huge gages in their ears, tattooed faces & bodies, bright pink hair, that may endure comments but this is the way they want to look. Same as MTF people. So, live and let live.

I know a lot of CDers from my SO’s group. They run the spectrum from looking really great to looking totally out of place. The point is, CDers shouldn’t dwell on what everyone else thinks.

[Amelie]

I don't care what people think of me or what they say of me. I don't look for acceptance or a need to belong. People should just obey the law and stay away from me with the violent acts.

[Alice B]

I think rating would be highly variable based upon location. ome sities and states are more knowlegable than others and more accepting

[Helen_Highwater]

I think it is a mistake to equate no comment or no reaction with indifference. I see a lot of people while out who, IMO, are dressed atrociously or are acting atrociously but I never say anything to them. Mostly I ignore them, and that is quite different than being indifferent.

This small "poll" signifies anything but indifference to me. Four out of five gave a negative reaction.

With all due respect, what you've failed to add into the equation is the hundreds if not thousands of folk who've shown no response at all. We all know those who don't like us are out there. It's just that perhaps there's far fewer of them than many would think. If you're not indifferent to the badly dressed, how would you describe your feelings towards them? Loathing, disgust, pity, hating, ambivalence ?


Have you ever read the comments people leave on the Yahoo news when there's a GLBT issue in the headlines. it's totally full of hate. Maybe it's just the "haters" who respond but it shows that there are a lot of them out there.

Again, it's undeniable that there are those who for whatever reason cannot find it int their hearts to show compassion and understanding. That's not in any way an indicator of how the majority of people react. If all we took was notice of those people then non of us would ever set foot outside the front door


We always have to be aware of the negatives, those who are unable or unwilling to accept a differing point of view or lifestyle. If however we focus only on those then we're doomed to remain closeted, ever fearful of the what if's. If the vast majority of people are ambivalent or indifferent towards me when out enfemme then that's fine by me. They can get on with living their lives, I'll get on with living mine. I don't expect them to swoon over me, rush up and hug me and say how lovely I look. Just ignore me and let me interact with others in the same way everyone else does. Equality of treatment is all I ask.

Tolerance and acceptance are both things that can be withdrawn or given proviso's. Indifference takes no effort upon the part of the viewer.

[char GG]

Diane:
LGBT issues are not the only stories that reveal the haters. Look at ANY news story, even cute animal or a "feel good" story and there are haters. I can't believe the number of people that have such negative comments. The ones that have the guts to post all the vile hate are people with WAY too much time or have other issues. Even if I dislike something, I would NEVER post such anti-human hatred toward others. I am particularly appalled at those who are from countries (other than the one the news story or post comes from) spewing their brand of hate. I firmly believe those negative responders are the minority, just the most vocal.

[Taylor186]

With all due respect, what you've failed to add into the equation is the hundreds if not thousands of folk who've shown no response at all. We all know those who don't like us are out there. It's just that perhaps there's far fewer of them than many would think. If you're not indifferent to the badly dressed, how would you describe your feelings towards them? Loathing, disgust, pity, hating, ambivalence ?

Where to start?

First, my original post suggests that someone not showing a response or ignoring you does not necessarily mean they are indifferent. Can you even agree with the validity of that statement?

Second, the many and varied possible reasons I might not be indifferent to a situation have no bearing on this discussion.

[sometimes_miss]

Most are indifferent until you get too close. Few prefer a neighbor who outwardly crossdresses, a friend, a coworker who sits next to them, a husband, son, father, uncle, etc.. NIMBY applies here. Open a convenience store across from another, and watch your customers disappear if you hire all crossdressers. Then you'll see just how far you'll have to discount your goods in order to get people to be indifferent to you. That's the cost of crossdressing.

Or hire yourself out as a babysitter, or home health aide. See how many people will hire you. That will tell you how many are really indifferent.

[Helen_Highwater]

Alternatively a store staffed by CD'ers may have such a curiosity value that people flock to it. Finding the choice good, the prices competitive and the staff helpful, polite and engaging (as we always are) might just be enough to keep them coming back.

[Teresa]

Helen,
No I don't think people are indifferent, it's more to do with not knowing how to react with us . Even though it is becoming more open were are still a small minority , some people have never seen a CDer before , what do you say to them and how do you relate to them ? This is where we have to take the upper hand and communicate with them , as you have found on your trips out. SAs have no choice but to deal with us , I'm so impressed with the way most of them do . In that respect I believe they actually enjoy the interaction , how many times have you been out shopping and ended up talking or being served by more than one SA ?

I'm beginning to get what members say about overthinking it all , if we present well enough as a woman that is how most people will treat us . I'm afraid I come back to the MIAD situation again , that just has to confuse people , there's no way I could do it , to me you have to think the whole presentation through from head to toe if you really want and acceptance from the public .

[Alice Torn]

People seldom will say what they are thinking . Most will be talking to themselves inside. They may tell others later, "guess what i saw today!!"

[Stephanie47]

If you've ever rode the New York City subway you'll notice the "subway stare." Total indifference to whatever is going on around you. It's rare to strike up an interaction with a person. It's the same with everyone everywhere. As long as a person is not viewed as a threat there is usually nothing more than eye contact. Yes, there is always some loudmouth idiot who will cast a dispersion towards a cross dressing man in the same manner the person will make some sort of unwanted comment to a woman.

There are survey results available on line which still indicate disapproval or the lifestyle of gays and lesbians and transgender men and women. Tolerance but not acceptance. Indifference or lack of interaction does not equal acceptance. Yes, when I am out en femme, if I have an encounter I opt for indifference over an unpleasant interaction.

[Helen_Highwater]

Helen,
SAs have no choice but to deal with us , I'm so impressed with the way most of them do . In that respect I believe they actually enjoy the interaction , how many times have you been out shopping and ended up talking or being served by more than one SA ?

Teresa,

I agree with what you're saying. I suppose we're a bit of a novelty. If we're the first they're had to deal with then I hope we come across as just being like any other customer. That said Jo Blogs who passes us in the street, as we've said so often, is more intent on getting on with their own busy lives to worry too much about us being there. As I said in the post, No malice, take us or leave us, neither liked or disliked, not bothered one way or the other. You are right though, we do need to be ambassadors for our team and just be nice and pleasant.


People seldom will say what they are thinking . Most will be talking to themselves inside. They may tell others later, "guess what i saw today!!"

Alice,

Yep, we add to the general humdrum of their lives. My belief is the vast majority relate the tale but without vitriol, hatred or malice. I liken it to the taxi driver who gets a fare from a celebrity, it's a case of, "Guess who I had in the back of my cab today?" A tale to be told.

[CoralReef]

great post. bare with me.... this morning on the way to work i pass a high school and see so much color in kids style these days and really dig it. because now if you dye your hair pink or green or blue, it's not really hard, or punk like in the 80s/90s. Now young adults and teens simply (like playing a video game) pick a character and become it. I work with young adults and they wear rock shirts sold at walmart and they think its a brand, didn't even know it was a band! lol. so here is my point...: freedom of expression is getting better and widely accepted, i dress and being comfortable i pick what i wear, and obviously don't snap a pic if i don't look good in it, which means not going outside in it. I also don't care always about passable, as i am masculine and my gear sometimes is both! that's right he/she in one. Like someone else said, i think it the other gender having the issue of accepting the cross over. i've seen over 5 cd/tran at home depot, totally non pass but wearing dresses make up, not a care in the world, not one person disrespects. so i think it is better. any one who laughs or has something to say, obviously has some insecurities and that is the truth!

[kimdl93]

One of the tricky parts of such surveys is that it is possible to skew the response by the way the question is framed. Context is key. If you precede the question with a discussion of human rights or abuses, you're likely to skew the results one way. Preface with some darkly threatening images of perverse sexual behavior, and you'll skew it another. That's one of many reasons why polling is so unreliable.

Here's an often repeated example of framing or anchoring effects: A behavioral scientist has asked various groups....including students, prisoners, and even a room full of statisticians to think of the last two digits of their cell number, their birth year, or some other known number. Then they were asked to estimate the number of countries in Africa. Invariably, the responses tended to group around the last two digits of the number provided (birth year, cell number etc). Obviously, there is no relation between the number of countries in Africa, but just thinking briefly of a number can anchor peoples minds towards that number. Weird, huh? The mind takes shortcuts, often totally irrational shortcuts.

[Tracy Irving]

Teresa, I like a lot of what you have to say and I understand you want the public to see you a certain way and that is great. I am curious about one thing though...


I'm afraid I come back to the MIAD situation again , that just has to confuse people

Joe Sixpack has two people standing before him. The first person is a man in a dress. Pretty straight forward. The second person, a man in a dress, adds makeup and a wig.

As has been stated numerous times before, the great majority of us don't pass. Joe Sixpack now needs processing time to figure it all out. How is that less confusing? No disrespect, just wondering...

Is seeing a man in a dress more confusing than seeing what might be a man in a dress?

[Helen_Highwater]

One of the tricky parts of such surveys is that it is possible to skew the response by the way the question is framed. Context is key.

Kim,

You're absolutely right, context is key, however mine is a theoretical proposition, a "What do ya think might be the outcome" question. I offer it on no scientific basis, just perhaps gut feeling. It's that which we we with while go out face. We process what we encounter based on our immediate gut response. How we read body language. For my part, and I consider myself a good reader of body language, my deduction is most people really don't show any significant reaction, hence indifferent.


Teresa, I like a lot of what you have to say and I understand you want the public to see you a certain way and that is great. I am curious about one thing though...

Joe Sixpack has two people standing before him. The first person is a man in a dress. Pretty straight forward. The second person, a man in a dress, adds makeup and a wig. As has been stated numerous times before, the great majority of us don't pass. Joe Sixpack now needs processing time to figure it all out. How is that less confusing? No disrespect, just wondering...

Is seeing a man in a dress more confusing than seeing what might be a man in a dress?

An obvious man in a dress needs little or no processing time. Someone who's taken the time to look as close to a female as possible could actually be a female with masculine traits/features. Are you going to risk insulting that person by getting the pronoun wrong? Taking it back to my point, even if people notice these things, now many really care? How many become so incensed that they feel they have to react? Evidence from members here says very, very few. No contextualised parameters, simple instinctive reaction.

It is too easy to see or fear the worst when in reality the likelihood is low. It's my reading of posts here that cultural differences effect how individuals see situations. Hence there will always be disagreements. I'm a glass half full person. I know there's the potential for me to suffer harm, I know there are people who don't like folks like us. I also know there are mass murderers out there but the chances of me being a victim of one is small, no tiny (I hope I'm not tempting fate!). I will always look for the best in people and to date that philosophy hasn't let me down. For me, most people are generally nice. That doesn't stop me being aware and careful, choosing where and when I go. The force is with me (should have posted that yesterday)

[suzanne]

I really think it SHOULD be 5 - neither like or dislike. What I choose to wear should make no difference whatsoever to anyone who doesn't know me personally. It should be No Big Deal that I'm in a dress. Of course, I don't want to receive hostility for it. But I also don't want a random person getting overly friendly because they have some creepy fascination with me. Lets limit it to "I like your shoes." and move on. Just my opinion.