On passing

[CarlaWestin]

For about a hundred years now, I've stressed, strived and fantasized about actually passing as a female. Then, as I was reading another thread, that pesky lightbulb (now LED) went off in my head. Isn't passing kinda passe' if not down right prejudice? "I'm sorry sir, Walmart is only for people that present as their biological gender." When I go out as Carla, I appear to be female to the casual observer but, I really am just me being the way I want to be at the moment. Even that rare one out of a thousand image that comes out rewardingly fabulous is still a betrayal of my actual maleness no matter how hard I try.

:straightface:

I do believe I've evolved into something very wonderful. And that's the confidence. Just comfortable just being me. And me really likes going out when me feels pretty!

[Helen_Highwater]

Carla,

I love your line, Isn't passing kinda passe' if not down right prejudice? I only hope others can be convinced, especially those teetering on the edge of crossing the threshold, that passing isn't a prerequisite for stepping out into the world. Look your best, strive by all means to look as femme as you can, but for goodness sake don't let not being 100% stop you enjoying the world around you.... as you.

When is the penny going to drop? How many times does it have to be written, "I know I don't pass but I had a great time out shopping/dining/dancing" before folks realise the fallacy of only those who truly pass can go out? I can totally emphasise with your sentence, When I go out as Carla, I appear to be female to the casual observer but, I really am just me being the way I want to be at the moment. Who wouldn't want to do that?

[docrobbysherry]

I agree, Carla. Since it's nearly impossible for most of us to pass, why not shoot for "acceptance"? :thumbsup:

If only that didn't involve "dressing to blend"!:doh:

[Tracy Irving]

Acceptance is a lofty goal. But, hey, stranger things have happened. Tolerance is much easier to achieve.

[Jacqueline1965]

I have pondered this many times recently and have come up with this perspective. I have been going out as Jackie multiple times per week to many places that I am only known as my male self. It has been nerve wracking at times but I have always followed through. What I have realized is that I present a compelling female image...maybe not 100% passable but enough to where I am respected and taken seriously. I have engaged is so many meaning deep discussions with people I have just met about crossdressing and transgender issues and franky many women pouring their hearts out to me because I'm good listener. It really been amazing. I am not really trying to "pass" as much as trying to be my authentic self when presenting as female. My experience is that people both men and women respect me for my honesty and for who I am rather that what I am wearing...I feel truly blessed

[Sarah Doepner]

I gave up striving to pass years ago but still work toward blending enough to not attract unwanted interaction. Heck, they may clock me from 50 meters away, but as long as they don't swerve to confront me directly or attempt to raise a mob of torch-bearing, pitchfork wielding peasants to corner me in a barn, I'm fine. Anything above that level, including but not limited to; compliments, discounts, honest questions or even being ignored because there are better things to look at, are all wins for me.

[Rachael Leigh]

Carla, yes I think we tend to overthink what it means to pass. Yes there are days we put the right look together but many of
us know and we just have to be ourselves as you say. Today most folks are realizing girls like us are out there but we just want to be treated like anyone else. The best way for that is just be ourselves as I said. I really don’t think much about it
anymore when I’m out, oh sure I look in the mirror and wonder will I be noticed or does it matter. I just keep going because
like you say I’m just being me

[DaisyLawrence]

Anything above that level, including but not limited to; compliments, discounts, honest questions or even being ignored because there are better things to look at, are all wins for me.

I love that! :) When I'm hopping about as a middle aged man OR women I sincerely hope that there are better things for people to look at too. Certainly younger things!

[Teresa]

Carla,
I didn't realise you were that old , my you've aged well !!

I feel we should make the point and keep making it , I can look back not too far when the word PASSING was the Holy Grail ! Finding out it isn't is the turning point and trying to achieve it can only end in tears and disappointment , why does it take so long to find this out ? Do we become older and wiser or older and just plain stupid ? I know I'm happier now I'm getting there .

[Aunt Kelly]

A-men, Carla.

For the umpteenth time, most of us do not pass (No, you really don't) and it does... not... matter. Dress like a woman your age (or at least close to it) would dress for the venue, comport yourself in a ladylike manner and you will almost always be accorded the respect due the person you are trying to be.
It is that simple.

And yes, I hear ya, Doc. :)

[DIANEF]

When I am out the best thing I can hope for is for no one to give me a second look, so far that has not happened and I am very happy with that situation.

[Jaymees22]

My new goal is to pass as a full time transgender woman.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Boy howdy! Oops, I mean, Girl Howdy!

I especially agree with the prejudice part. What's that line I've heard around here before........ 'passing privilege'? That one irks me in many ways.
Firstly, as has been said, no one passes as easily as some think they do.
Secondly, and this is one of those, can't fix society, soap box rants, but beauty shouldn't be afforded so much glory. I get it, I really do, fairly or unfairly, the better a person looks the better the treatment.

But the kicker here, and yes i'm gonna throw some of y'all here under that greyhound going 70 mph, but I've heard it said here, so if the shoe fits wear the damn thing:
the snarkyness towards the MIAD folks (usually sounds something like you make it harder on those of us who really do try....wahh wahh wahh), the same thing is done up kinda blury like for folks like me who present in mixed mode, and all the hoopla and repeated snarkyness that I see in the picture forum.

Ok, rant over.

I've become as comfortable in my skin and mind as I've ever been by accepting the NB/TG existence, passing is a dead subject for this cat.

Cass

[Beverley Sims]

Years ago, I walked around free as a blonde bombshell.

I looked better as a woman because as a man I was often misgendered anyway.

Dressed as a man I was a target for gay men but as a women I attracted the women like magnet.

These days I just have to accept it and own it. :-)

[alwayshave]

Carla, I know that I'll never pass, too tall, etc... But I love to wear women's clothes. I'm not going to let something like passing stop me.

[DaisyLawrence]

Boy howdy! Oops, I mean, Girl Howdy!

I especially agree with the prejudice part. What's that line I've heard around here before........ 'passing privilege'? That one irks me in many ways.
Firstly, as has been said, no one passes as easily as some think they do.
Secondly, and this is one of those, can't fix society, soap box rants, but beauty shouldn't be afforded so much glory. I get it, I really do, fairly or unfairly, the better a person looks the better the treatment.

But the kicker here, and yes i'm gonna throw some of y'all here under that greyhound going 70 mph, but I've heard it said here, so if the shoe fits wear the damn thing:
the snarkyness towards the MIAD folks (usually sounds something like you make it harder on those of us who really do try....wahh wahh wahh), the same thing is done up kinda blury like for folks like me who present in mixed mode, and all the hoopla and repeated snarkyness that I see in the picture forum.

Ok, rant over.

I've become as comfortable in my skin and mind as I've ever been by accepting the NB/TG existence, passing is a dead subject for this cat.

Cass

Cass. I'm like you as you know, NB and presenting as such in an andro style 95% of the time. On the occasion I do the 'full Daisy' I doubt that I pass close scrutiny but I leave them unsure. So I know where you are coming from but please please, calm down, it's not worth getting that worked up about it. Even I don't do the MIAD thing, I respect those that do but for me it wouldn't make my life any more comfortable or enjoyable to be the focus of shocked stares and finger pointing. Furthermore my wife would be uncomfortable so that is a step too far. It's not beyond your capacity to understand why some members here have a problem with presenting as such. It takes real confidence (heck my own day to day approach is too much for many and I find it totally natural and normal). Many just don't have that confidence, rightly or wrongly. What they do have is an awareness that the more they can blend into the background as just another real woman the more comfortable they are likely to feel to the point that a 100% pass would leave them nothing to worry about. I get that, I understand the thinking. Not all members here are as confident as you or I. Not all are NB. Heck for some crossdressing is simply a hobby they enjoy and if they get a kick out of being the perfect visual representation of a genetic woman then what is wrong with that? I know for sure that those people are much more tolerant of my NB identity than your average muggle. So really there is no need to throw them under the Greyhound doing 70mph, if they really want to pass, let them, in the meantime you and I can save a lot of time and just go about our lives as the people we are, albeit in very feminine appearance. In the meantime, I think we both should avoid the picture forum :) :) :)

[Aunt Kelly]

...sounds something like you make it harder on those of us who really do try....wahh wahh wahh),

Excuse me?

I've said that, many times, because it is true. The MIAD is often perceived as deliberately and overtly non-existent conforming. Right or wrong, that _is_ the perception, and it invites derision far more frequently than even the most not-possible CD. I have also said that they have every right to do so. Get that part right, at least.

And no, those of us trying to pass or blend are not non-conformist. We are simply trying, very hard to confirm to a different lender's standard. So I resent the implication that an observation of plain fact is out of place

[Shely]

I have been out several times in the last few weeks and love the experience, a lot!. I did post a couple of pictures in the mall. Like DIANEF says hopping for no second look. For the most part others seemed to busy to give much notice to others and that's great. But, did i say "I loved the experience". You will be IDed by a few people, but who cares. The one problem for me is dressing to blend in. I love sexy short dresses and have to go the other way to go out. Oh well, whatever it takes. But dressing to sit at home has boring very boring and going out is actually the real goal isn't it?

[Georgina]

Passing could mean passing the buck. Going out while aiming to pass is denying that you are a male in a dress. Looking like a woman is hiding among the female population and doing little to further the cause.

[Stacy Darling]

Just comfortable just being me. And me really likes going out when me feels pretty!

ME TOO! :battingeyelashes:

[Teresa]

Georgina,
I don't understand your answer isn't that what most of us aspire to , we dress to achieve a comfortable integration into sociaety , well at least I do , it's not a case of denying I'm male but more accepting more of me is female and and want to be accepted as such. We can't fully hide if that's our intention because we don't pass 100% .

Just to take Diane's point if you don't look for a reaction you tend not to get them , yesterday I walked the whole length of my local High Street people just didn't appear to be aware of me , I was just a lady shopper .

[sara.rafaela]

I was watching a youtube from Yoya Fabulosa. She is quite beautiful and has a great style. She answered a question whether she was trying to pass. She said that basically it wasn't the point. She was trying to look her best and if she was acknowledged for looking fabulous, then that was the point.

[Teresa]

Sara,
She is talking from a celebrity status, she can go OTT and expects people to say she looks fabulous . We have to tone it down , everyday for most of us means we don't go OTT that's if you want to blend, OK dress like a hooker if you wish but you're in a totally differnt ball game then .

[Julie Martin]

Passing could mean passing the buck. Going out while aiming to pass is denying that you are a male in a dress. Looking like a woman is hiding among the female population and doing little to further the cause.

Georgina,

I don't quite understand what you mean here..it sounds as if you are saying it's not OK to attempt to create the illusion of being female? Maybe I'm misunderstanding? In my view, we each have to walk the pink road in our own way..and express ourselves in the way that works for each of us, whether it's a dress, work boots and a full beard, or whether it's as a virtually convincing woman. Just one "gal's" opinion..

[Cassandra Lynn]

I've said that, many times, because it is true. The MIAD is often perceived as deliberately and overtly non-existent conforming. Right or wrong, that _is_ the perception, and it invites derision far more frequently than even the most not-possible CD. I have also said that they have every right to do so. Get that part right, at least.


Thanx for the polite cool down Aunt Kelly, I do need put back in place once in awhile, i'm one of those sensitive types that wants world peace and all that....which often leads me to go over the top. I have a hard time checking my motives and can tend to bring the unfairness I see in my personal world with me here.

I know tho, that none here have ever said no one has the right to present as MIAD, so if I by implication said that then my apologies.

Cass

[sara.rafaela]

I can pass enough, across the street, in the middle of the busy city, that I do not attract a lot of attention. But I know that I cannot really pass. If someone checks me out in a second glance, engages in a conversation. I go out quite a bit and I think I have adopted the same attitude. Personally, I dress to impress, but not like a hooker. I do not dress to blend (jeans and a simple top.) Think of a company holiday party. I meet a lot of people, it does not really matter if I can pass, or fool them. That I am out there and have created a nice look for myself is good enough for me. If people appreciate it, it is an added bonus.

[Stephanie47]

I started reading this thread this morning, but, I had some errands to run. Decades ago my wife shook her head and generically asked, "Why would a man wear a bra when he has nothing to pack into it?" I thought that was a valid question. I think my attempts to look as much like a woman as possible does raise some questions. However, after seven decades I still do not know the answer to the "Why do I dress as a woman?" If I am a total man, 100%, then all this does not make sense. Does it? There must be something going on inside my brain which does include my DNA. If I wanted to just wear a dress and not present an illusion, what would I be? Why? I can fully understand a transgender man or woman trying to appear physically as their innate gender. But, I am not such a person. As best as I can figure it out I like to wear women's clothing. I do not want to be a woman, although, if I was that would be fine. So, why the clothes? The simulated breasts? The wig since I am bald? I suspect I want to pass because there is some percentage of womanly DNA in my genes which compels me to do it. But, there is also an inquiring eye which scans the mirror and says, "Hey, that's not good enough." Wanting to "pass" is to avoid the negativity that exists in society towards non-conforming individuals. I think I may have a handle on what causes me to try to emulate a woman in dress and mannerisms on occasion. I do not want to destroy my self illusion by confrontation encounters. I think that is a given with anyone with anything.

I'm sure I see transgender men and women around me, but, I rarely notice them. Why? Because they fit in nicely with my perception of how such a person looks and acts. I know I do not pass. I do not want to give up the serenity Stephanie brings me. Would I have passed years ago? Perhaps. When I was in mid teens and really slender my six foot two height would have qualified me to be seen as a member of one of the local college women's basketball teams. All I would have needed is the proper jersey and shorts and nice athletic shoes. I had the really light blond hair then, and, fair skin which rarely needed a shave. But, alas, now I am an elder and look the part.

Yet, Stephanie is still an significant part of who I am, whether I "pass" or not.

[Nikki A.]

Personally I just try to be me. I try to have enough female cues, (dress appropriately, act like I belong look as feminine as an older overweight guy can look). So far I have been able to interact, be treated respectfully and gone about my way. Passable? probably not, but Georgina I am furthering our cause. I am showing people that I can be me, a nice normal person with a fem side that is just trying to live my life on my own terms. I don't want to be seen as a man in a dress, but rather showing that I was born a man, but have a female side that needs to shine also.

[Rogina B]

My new goal is to pass as a full time transgender woman.

You got it !

[SaraLin]

Georgina said, in part:


Going out while aiming to pass is denying that you are a male in a dress. Looking like a woman is hiding among the female population and doing little to further the cause.



I'm not a crusader trying to further anyone's cause. I'll leave that to others who are braver and stonger than I am.

I'm probably more TG than CD, but when I'm out, I just want to be 'another woman in the crowd' - and nothing more. I don't want to make waves (or even a ripple). Blending into the background and not being noticed is my goal. I know that it's an unrealistic expectation for me - but that has always been my desire. Anything less is just not enough.

DISCLAIMER - I probably should have put most of that in the past tense, since I haven't actually been out in a while. The sentiment is still true, though.