am i doing rite or wrong

[rebecca]

Hi everyone. Last weekend I went shopping with my wife. I was dressed as usual. We tried on dresses, jeans, blouses, and different jewelry. We had a good time and the stopped at apple bees to get something to eat. We had a nice talk. When we returned home around midnight she asked me a question I was not sure how to answer. She asked me do I think I am honoring God when I dress up and go out as a woman. She said God made us male and female and He does not make mistakes. She said she loves me either way but is concerned if we are in or out of God’s will when I dress. I have been dressing for a long time and she even helps me with my hair and cosmetics. Therefore, I was wondering if anyone has thought about this question am I sinning.

[TracyDeluxe]

I am pretty much a heathen, I guess, but I was raised Christian and still have the hangover for that. When I seriously ask myself that question, I have to answer that God did make me the way I am, i.e., all of me, including my mind. If He didn't want me to crossdress, live as a woman, whatever, why did he make the urge so strong??

[Kimberley]

My answer to this is: If god doesnt make mistakes then how are you wrong. We are born this way even if some of us discover it later.

Is this a choice for us? If it is no choice then how can we be wrong? Did God make a mistake? Or did man declare this as wrong because of his interpretation of scripture?

God doesnt ask that we dress or not dress. Man does. God does ask that we love him and one another.

Our love of God is not dependant on gender, sexuality, race, or any other of a dozen or more conditions we as man have placed as conditional to loving God.

I believe that if we live the 10 Commandments and The Beatitudes we have lived our lives as God asks. Is that wrong?

My opinions for what they are worth.

Kimberley.

[size7satin]

I dont believe in a "God" as in a King James Bible god..... but if we are made in "Gods" image then God would look damn good in a teddy, stockings & some heels! don't cha think!

If jesus can accept being betrayed and killed, then I think god can handle us crossdessers, if not well I will see the rest of you hethens in hell!!!! ROFLMAO!

[trannie T]

Does God care more about how you treat others or what kind of underwear you have on? Jesus said to love God and to love others as we love ourselves.

[Holly]

Hi Rebecca (a fine Biblical name, by the way). There is exactly ONE reference to crossdressing in the Bible (Deut. 22:5) And it is important to understand the context and the history of this passage of scripture. We have discussed this at length in the Religion Discussion Group. I am the moderator of that group and would be happy to have join us. If you would like to do, just click my name on the discription of the group on the homepage of the forum. Hope to see you there.

[sparks]

Hey I've often struggled with those thoughts as well! I've pondered whether or not my dressing temptations were the work of Satan! Who can say for sure and will not know until we make that last final transition of our souls!
I just hope that if I go to hell the Devil will have a decent pantie selection.
And hope he doesn't get to offended when I ask if he tucks!

[Jan W]

Well according to those who believe he made us so we cannot be mistakes

[Cathy Anderson]

She asked me do I think I am honoring God when I dress up and go out as a woman.
There are different ways to understand this question. Perhaps the correct way is not "is the mere act of crossdressing contrary to God's will?" but, rather "is the *way* I am approaching this honoring Godl?" There is a major difference between these two questions.

> She said God made us male and female

As Jan Clare mentioned, Genesis says:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

One interpretation is that God created the primal man with both male and female traits. And that part of the way "back to the Garden" is to reintegrate them. For some related discussion, you might see this article:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/alchemy.htm

> He does not make mistakes.

One possibility is that God "makes" us CDers, the purpose being for us to use this conflict to rise above it and become better in the process.

The most important thing is an attitude of humility. You have to pray and make an effort to subordinate your will to God--not prejudging what the outcome is. Perhaps something like this:

1. God, I don't know what you want.
2. If You want me to stop, let me stop!
3. If You want me to continue, let me continue!
4. If You want me to find a creative new solution to the whole thing, may that happen!

Note that it is almost as willful to simply assume God wants you to stop, as it is to dress and not even consider the question.

But, as with anything else, God often helps those who help themselves. So common sense tells you that you need to make some kind of effort. Years ago I went to confession to talk about CDing. The priest made a casual remark about counseling. Then I realized that simply going to a counselor--even if just a few times--was a concrete way I could assure that I wasn't just lost in wishful thinking.

Cathy

[Teresa Amina]

God is a funny fellow/gal- being misrepresented by organized religion is even a way of pointing out to us what he/she is not!
Cathy's link is a great one to go to, a far different perspective from what you get from Churchianity.
"Rite or wrong"? That's one we have to work out ourselves. Working it out is just part of this strange thing we call life.
Do as ye will, but harm none.

[ronda]

god gives us all lessons to learn and also gives us lessons for one or all people around us to learn. we all have to learn to be happy with oue self and to love our self as we are. i think god gave me a gift that helps me understand what is to be a male and some understanding of being a female. i don't think that god is perfect look around at what we have hear in nature. we have to understand that no person is perfect. you are not sinning you are being you an that is what god want us to be.0.02

[BeckyCath]

Who did Jesus spend most of his time with? And who was he against?

Old Testament Theology is all well and good, but harking back to the Old Testament makes a complete mockery of the love and forgiveness Jesus showed the world in his crucifiction and his resurection.

I have Gender Identity Dysphoria, it's a medical condition, not a spiritual issue.

Rebecca

[Missy]

Ok I stuggle with this too. God made me a man I made me into a crossdresser. It was by choise that I made me what I am today.
I feel that when I crossdress I do it for me not God. Thank you for bringing this up. as for the sin part for most we sin every day. I know I do.

Missy:)

[DonnaT]

Nice to know your wife is so supportive :clap:

It's also good to see she realizes God doesn't make mistakes. God made you the way you are, so how can CDing be wrong. God didn't make clothes, man did. Adam and Eve were naked, then they wore the same thing, fig leaves :D

See

http://members.aol.com/gnlnews/mistakes.html

source:

http://members.aol.com/gnlnews/index1.html
_________________

[Maureen Henley]

I agree with Tracey somewhat. i am also a heathen or pagan these days, or maybe animist, but with a Catholic upbringing.

I think the key issue is self -respect. If you can still respect yourself when you dress, then you are respecting God's creation, in any religion. And showing respect for His work is no sin.

[Sophia Rearen]

I've been told by my local bible source that sinning means, to miss the mark of perfection. Therefor, the only perfection is the creator. Pretty simple stuff. So, we are all sinners. I know as crossdressers, none of us hit the mark of perfection. Sherlyn, comes close though. My source, also knows of my cding and I love to hear his biblical interpretations of my cding. It's so funny.

A dear girl friend of mine told me this, God is the creator, when we transform ourselves to our feminine side we are creating an image of how we see ourselves. Being creative brings us closer to God.
Nuff said. Go in peace.

[Julie Avery]

I don't mean to be frivolous by saying this, but is it all that much different, in principle, than changing your hair color if God made you brunette and you like to be a redhead?

[RachelB.]

This subject has been the source of more than one fierce argument. Sin is indivigual and something that may be right for you may be wrong for me. Where you are in your walk with God may lead you to change things in your life. Don't let people who use snippets from the Bible to justify their prejudices. When I rededicated my life after several years of running from God I let people influence the way I think. It was later revealed to me that I was to witness to people in the crossdressing community. To be an effective witness I needed to be able to relate to the challenges and issues of crossdressing.

God loves us and wants us to be happy. My answer is to pray about it and let God reveal his will in his time.

Your sister in Christ

Rachel

[Sharon]

I just want you folk to know that this thread may well be moved to the Religion Forum if we get too involved with beliefs and such (and, particularly, if we get dissenting opinions). If you have not yet joined that forum, and wish to continue reading and partaking in this thread, then I suggest you put in a request to join it soon.

[sharifemme]

I'm not sure this is a good place for an out and out religious discussion but I will give you my take on the matter as a Christian and a trans person.

1. God did make us male and female both inside and out. Not neccessarily the same in the same body.

2. You are right, God doesn't make mistakes. He made us as we are for a reason. Just have to figure out what that reason is. For me, I figure that reason is to help the pharisees among us to try to understand that God's love is for everybody and that we should truly look for what the Bible is really saying.

3. Jesus said "come to me all who are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you peace." Christ was not just for the religiously fervent, He wanted each of us.

If you would be interested in more insight as a Christian, I urge you to read the Grace and Lace Love Letters, originally written by Lee Francis Heller.

http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/tgfgnl.html

[Annaliese]

Hi everyone. Last weekend I went shopping with my wife. I was dressed as usual. We tried on dresses, jeans, blouses, and different jewelry. We had a good time and the stopped at apple bees to get something to eat. We had a nice talk. When we returned home around midnight she asked me a question I was not sure how to answer. She asked me do I think I am honoring God when I dress up and go out as a woman. She said God made us male and female and He does not make mistakes. She said she loves me either way but is concerned if we are in or out of God’s will when I dress. I have been dressing for a long time and she even helps me with my hair and cosmetics. Therefore, I was wondering if anyone has thought about this question am I sinning.
Rebecca I have heard the same thing out of my wife, I tell her, she is right, God dose not make mistakes, God made me this way.
When I hide my fem side I am depressed and sad and not someone she wants to be around.
When I am not trying to hide my fem side I am a kinder and gentler person, the person God wants me to be and the person she love and wants to be with. This is who I am and God would not want me to be what I am not, and it will be those who judge that will have a problem with God.

Anna

[TGMarla]

Without getting into a deep philosophical discussion on the nature of God and the ways that modern Christianity *******izes true belief (no offense meant to anyone, by the way), I sincerely doubt that God really cares that you crossdress. In fact, your crossdressing likely brings you closer to God than you know.

[Toni]

In my heart I know that I am not sinning when I wear ladies clothes, but why is it that I can't go to church to worship and just say "Hi God this is me - this is the way I am, I'm one of your children and I wear a dress.

[Marla S]

She asked me do I think I am honoring God when I dress up and go out as a woman. She said God made us male and female and He does not make mistakes.
I'm not very religious, but have a religious background and thought quite a lot about religion without taken the bible literally.
My conclusion is: If there is God, then the only way to honor him is to search and find your inner peace, which includes respecting and honoring yourself as well as your fellow men and nature.
This is a motive found in almost all religions and holds true for the non- religious.
I don't know if God doesn't make mistakes, but the whole creation is not only bipolar. You can take whatever you want, you will always find something that is inbetween and bears boths aspects.

In the bible you read only : God created day and night.
But If he wouldn't allow something between the poles, he wouldn't have created dawn too, but a light switch.

[ChristineRenee]

I don't mean to be frivolous by saying this, but is it all that much different, in principle, than changing your hair color if God made you brunette and you like to be a redhead?Well...provided the collar and cuffs match...:heehee:

(a wink and a nod to Sean Connery as James Bond in "Diamonds Are Forever" for that little profundity!;))

[KathrynW]

In my heart I know that I am not sinning when I wear ladies clothes, but why is it that I can't go to church to worship and just say "Hi God this is me - this is the way I am, I'm one of your children and I wear a dress.
This is where it gets sticky...
Personally, I don't think a Church service is the place to be cd-ing. I'm not sure God has a huge problem with what you wear, but others in the service surely might, and I see no point in disrupting things. That's just my opinion.
If a person can't go without cd-ing for an hour, or however long the Church service lasts...then, there are other issues involved.

[Rikkicn]

the sufi's say that according to God there is no such thing as sin or that sin is the only thing that stands between us and our being our authentic selves.
Rikki

[EricaCD]

If there is a God who does not approve of cross-dressing, then our universe is governed by an omnipotent, benevolent deity that nevertheless is petty and prejudiced to a degree that we routinely consider intolerable in our fellow humans. Until God personally communicates to me that yes, in fact, that's the rule, I choose to think more highly of our Creator.

[Sarahgurl371]

Interesting and apparently a very common question. I have struggled with it for some time as well. My questioning lead to some profound thinking. Here is a thought.

I read last week the the Earth's population was 6.5 billion people. Each one of us is convinced that we are right. My religion. My political opinion. My Moraltiy. There are 6.5 billion people on the earth and I do not think that any of us are exactly alike in genetic make up, beliefs, political opinion, morality, etc/. So who is right? Whose particular religious beliefs should I adhere to? One thing I know about religion - Man is supposed to judge no body. God will make the judgement. And when man uses God's words to judge me, I think that is a sin.

I believe that I am not hiding anything from Him. He knows what is in my heart. I also believe that He made me this way for a reason. A reason I may never know. Neither will any other of the 6.5 billion humans here on earth. My life is between me and Him. Yet don't ask me why I struggle with the judgments that people place upon us.

So here are some of MY beliefs. Am I the one who is right out of 6.5 billion?

[KathrynW]

the sufi's say that according to God there is no such thing as sin or that sin is the only thing that stands between us and our being our authentic selves.
Rikki
What's a sufi?

[Sage GG]

Rebecca

Let me see if I have this right, You love God, you love your wife, she loves God , she loves you? Sounds like you are honoring each other and God. I'm pretty sure that what God has in mind for you.

Sage

[EllenCD]

Every artist depiction I ever saw of God showed Him/Her wearing a long flowing gown with a mid shoulder cut hairstyle. I don't know about you but if God likes to dress that way I'm not going against His/Hers will.

[Karen Edmonton]

Hi everyone. Last weekend I went shopping with my wife. I was dressed as usual. We tried on dresses, jeans, blouses, and different jewelry. We had a good time and the stopped at apple bees to get something to eat. We had a nice talk. When we returned home around midnight she asked me a question I was not sure how to answer. She asked me do I think I am honoring God when I dress up and go out as a woman. She said God made us male and female and He does not make mistakes. She said she loves me either way but is concerned if we are in or out of God’s will when I dress. I have been dressing for a long time and she even helps me with my hair and cosmetics. Therefore, I was wondering if anyone has thought about this question am I sinning.

It's like you say , God doesn't make mistakes ! His reasons may not be clear , but he/she has his/her reasons ! How can something as enlightening as seeing his work from both sides , be wrong !

[Bev06 GG]

This subject has been the source of more than one fierce argument. Sin is indivigual and something that may be right for you may be wrong for me. Where you are in your walk with God may lead you to change things in your life. Don't let people who use snippets from the Bible to justify their prejudices. When I rededicated my life after several years of running from God I let people influence the way I think. It was later revealed to me that I was to witness to people in the crossdressing community. To be an effective witness I needed to be able to relate to the challenges and issues of crossdressing.

God loves us and wants us to be happy. My answer is to pray about it and let God reveal his will in his time.

Your sister in Christ

Rachel

ABSOLUTELY I go to a very evangelical baptist church. I love the people there and they are like my extended family. However, there are many who in their humaness regularly break Commandments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 10. We all fall short of the Glory of God so let he who has no sin cast the first stone.
Take care
BEVxxxx

[Ellie]

I was raised catholic and I have suffered with such judgments on me and my activities and I admit that it was only recently that I have completely freed myself from the terror of the King James Bible.

My personal belief is that all so called organized religions are creations of Man to control, subjugate, and kill others in the name of God and as such are themselves the greatest abomination.

As for your question I would have to agree that if God doesn't make mistakes then you were born to be a cross dresser.

One more thing, trying to live your life by another's definition of rite and wrong will bring you nothing but sadness.

www.whatthebleep.com

[Cathy Anderson]

I just want you folk to know that this thread may well be moved to the Religion Forum if we get too involved with beliefs and such (and, particularly, if we get dissenting opinions). If you have not yet joined that forum, and wish to continue reading and partaking in this thread, then I suggest you put in a request to join it soon.
Hi Sharon,

Thank you for keeping us apprised. If it comes to that, rather than move the thread to the Religion Forum, where it would not be seen by the average member, may I request that you simply lock it instead? So far, at least, the replies have been fairly non-sectarian.

Cathy

[carol ann]

I think the answer is yes - we are not following God's wishes when we try to change our natures.

I think that is why so many of us go through periods of guilt when we purge our 'alter egos'

As we get more and more into the femele way of life our consciences become dulled and we start to believe that what we are doing is acceptable but I suspect that is when our relationship with God becomes more distant.

We read on this site how often relationships are broken as a consequence of partners not being able to accept our dressing. They see it as un-natural.

For many, though certainly not all, it is a sexual fetish and then it is certainly against the highest ideals of following God's laws

Does crossdressing become an addiction? - like drugs, alcohol or tobacco? - I suspect it does. We just like it too much too stop

I am not trying to preach - just trying to be honest with myself. i just comfort myself with the understnding that God loves me just as I am and he understands my feelings even though I am a sinner.

[Billie1]

I guess my take would be based on the basis of individual priorities.
To keep it in proper perspective.
As long as you "Do not put any other God before me" -type rule breaking, I would say you're not sinning.

God created this big, wide, beautiful world, the majesty of the universe, and all of it's wonders. The rags and trinkets that we devise pale in comparison.

Peace.

[Sarahgurl371]

0.02
It seems that even among us here, people who are admittedly different, we still tend to identify others who are different than us. The TS are "better" than the TG folk, the TG folk are "better" than the CD folk, the CD folk are "better" than the fetishtic folk. Those who recieve no sexual satisfaction from this all are better that those who do. It would seem that we even are not capable of making judgements upon others.

The very evangelical pastor who married my wife and I said to us in our premarragie counseling, " Anything sexual between you two is OK in God's eyes as long as it is OK with you". So if "anything sexual" is OK, how about "anything non sexual"?

Again I really hate trying to differentiate apples from oranges here. We are all different, and we all have different beliefs. Just as this pastor has his beliefs about sexuality between married individuals, some other may very well disagree with his views. So again the point - Which one of the 6.5 Billion people on earth is right?

[Rikkicn]

What's a sufi?

They are the mystical lovers of God. They want to have an on going expereince of God who they call their Beloved.
I once asked someone what is a Sufi and he answered "A Sufi is someone that feels joy at the first sign of despair"

for more read the poetry of Rumi or Hafiz...you'll be amazed

[Megan_Renee]

Hi everyone. Last weekend I went shopping with my wife. I was dressed as usual. We tried on dresses, jeans, blouses, and different jewelry. We had a good time and the stopped at apple bees to get something to eat. We had a nice talk. When we returned home around midnight she asked me a question I was not sure how to answer. She asked me do I think I am honoring God when I dress up and go out as a woman. She said God made us male and female and He does not make mistakes. She said she loves me either way but is concerned if we are in or out of God’s will when I dress. I have been dressing for a long time and she even helps me with my hair and cosmetics. Therefore, I was wondering if anyone has thought about this question am I sinning.

There has bee a good deal said about this on this thread already, but I find it interesting that I've not seen anything mentioned about one irrefutable fact: Original Sin. No one needs teach a child to sin, she simply does it out of nature. Many things on earth were created perfect and then corrupted by sin. The Lewisan view is that Satan takes things and twists them so that when we see our distortion we believe God to have made it. Thus, when we drink beer, we feel good, but our lives become a little fuzzy at first, and gain more fuzz with the increase in beer. Beer is good for you, medically speaking, but it can also kill you.

Now, onto CD'ing. God created humankind perfect, but through sin nature we have become corrupted. The longer we go the more corrupt we become. Now, since I'm sitting here completely in drag with my wig on, does that mean I am sinning? I do not think that is accurate. I think that God knew me when he formed me. He knew my parents and he kew how my heart would be. He wanted to make sure that I did indeed become a willing servant of his.

A huge problem people have with Christianity is that the church tends to condemn people for their sins. I guess I should say that the people of the church do this, for it is not said in the Bible that people are to be condemned. Paul talks of "handing over sinners to Satan for a time." but he means removing the protection of the church, allow the world to remind him how bad things can get.

I have been built, by God, to want to be (at least partially) a woman. Not only physically, but to a good degree mentally. Why did God build me this way? I believe I was built this way to be a witness to people who are like me. It is not the teatotaller who converts the alcholic. It is not the sanctified bretheren who woo the siner. It is not the justified who show the unjust the way. Alcoholic Anonymous is effective because it takes other people of the same kind to pull them from their obsession. It takes a sinner to show another sinner the way to Christ.

I, as a transgendered person, can come here and say, "God Loves you, and wants you to believe in his son. It does not matter that you have done horrible things, you lie and steal and cheat. God knows, and God forgives. Romans 3:23 tells us that "ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God." John 3:!6 tells us that "None may come to the father but through Jesus Christ, his son." I will not condemn you for being transgendered or whatever you want to call yourself. I will not tell you that you will go to Hell for a simple practice or operation that you have had. I will only tell you that unless you Believe in Christ and in him as the savior, you will indeed be cast into the pit of Flames.

That Said, God Bless.

Megan

[KathrynW]

for more read the poetry of Rumi or Hafiz...you'll be amazed
Ummmmmm....No Thanks...I'll pass...

[FROCKYHORROR]

http://www.realityresources.com/crossdressing.htm

heres a link to get you thinking.

[Lovely Rita]

Dear Jan Clare
It was very good to read your response. I too am a Pastor and have been completely reconciled with my life and my God. The journey was one very biblical along with a better understanding of our loving God.

DT 22:5 A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.

Seeing that the last part of this mandate is overlooked by society and that we are no longer under the law. God has shown me how much a child of his I trully am. Hopefully I can help others who find themselves in the same dilemma. I am careful to make sure my gift is not a stumbling block for others and that my life bring glory to God.

take care

[Breanne]

Why to we look for someone to blame: God for creating us this way; parents for the 'hormone wash' or whatever atmosphere they may have created; or our selves for choosing this life style? When the apostles asked Jesus about the man who had been born blind as to whose sin it was that caused him to be born blind, his sin or his parents, he responded with "Neither. It was to let God's work shine forth in him...." It's not what you are, it's what you do with it, I think.