Gaining understanding as an individual

[Casey Morgan]

This place has been truly wonderful. Even just having a place where I'm accepted and I can share my thoughts and feelings has done wonders for me. There's just one problem. (And no, I'm not looking to leave.)

This place is more like group therapy. Now what I need to start doing is learning about me. I'm understanding what makes different groups of people tick. But I need to start that voyage of self discovery, find information that pertains to me.

The problem is I don't know where to start. Just like with gynecomastia, once I know what to Google for I can begin to map my own road to understanding.

I don't think I'm TS. I don't feel like I was born in the wrong body. I feel like I should have been born in two bodies, one male and one female. Either that, or I should have been born a species that can change sex at will.

I've taken some of those "what sex are you" tests. I've been ignoring the numerical results and just looking at what the results indicate. For instance, I really don't know if I'm 50% male and 50% female (or 37% male and 63% female), or a 60 (that one test I took that somehow goes from a large minus number to a large positive number). But what the results seemed to indicate just felt right: I can be male or female.

But there's more to that. The questions that really made an impact were the "magic" questions. The ones that said I can be happy as either a male or a female but I must give up being the other. I don't want to. It would feel like half my soul was ripped away. (An odd thing for an Atheist to say, but I can't think of anything that makes a more concrete impression that "soul".) It honestly feels like there are two people standing here, but you can only see one of them. The other is phase-shifted or something.

In the forums people have asked if others would want to experience the "downsides" of being female, like bloating, PMS, periods, etc. No, but then if medicines like Pamprin or the latest birth control pills/patches that say a woman can have fewer periods are any indication, GGs don't want them either. It's part of being female so they live with it. I would accept it as part of being female also. I don't want to grow facial hair or become noticably aroused at inopportune times, but that's part of being male and I live with it and accept it.

Cross dressing is as close as I can physically get to my ideal situation. When I need to (internally, not because someone or something else is making me ) be male all I have to do is wear men's clothing, since I already have male body. When I need to be female though, I have to create the illusion of having a woman's body and dress in women's clothing. It's not rweal, but it's the closest thing I have.

So where can I find resources aimed at people who feel just like I do? Things that deal with my situation? What keywords do I put into Google to begin my voyage of discovery?

[kittypw GG]

I would refer you to Sophia's thread "I can't shut her down". Ms. Donna has some interesting things to say that might help. Good luck Kitty

[Julie Avery]

Shari, I don't have anything to add to Kitty's reply except to note that your post is really very clear about how you are and how you want to be - I think in many ways you have the answer to your questions, you just may not realize it yet. Thanks for the fine post which describes how a lot of us feel.

[DonnaT]

Looks like you've already accomplished your 'self discovery', unless there is something else you think you need to figure out.

You are transgendered and satisfy your needs by crossdressing, or not, as you feel appropriate. Same as most of us.

It honestly feels like there are two people standing here, but you can only see one of them.
Maybe you have a problem with seeing yourself as two people instead of one (a number of TGs do this), other than that I fail to see what else you need to discover.

As for any online tests, ignore them. They really can't tell you anything proof positive. They may only serve to confuse you, when there is no need to be confused.

[EricaCD]

Yep. Gotta agree that your voyage of discovery is well underway. I'm still packing for mine. How many dresses should I bring? :)

[Julie Avery]

Yep. Gotta agree that your voyage of discovery is well underway. I'm still packing for mine. How many dresses should I bring? :)

Enough to last a lifetime ;)

[miss_sarah]

Agreed. It sounds like you're at the same rest bench along the path that I am. I agree it sounds like the self-discovery is pretty much solid, perhaps you're at the point of working on self-acceptance?

I have a loooong way to go to get to the place i think i should end up -- whether or not that really comes to fruition or not (and no, I have no intention of transitioning, our situations are similar). My next steps are to "come out" to more people. Only a few close friends, and of course my supportive, loving wife know. I found in telling those friends that their questions (some unanswerable at the time) lead to learning a LOT about myself. Logic dictates then Spock that the MORE I open up to different people, of different backgrounds, beliefs and levels of potential understanding, that I'll just continue to learn more and more.

Of the friends i've already talked to, all were supportive of who i am, and of course not all wanted to know more or ever see that side of me either... Anyway, that's my story. The friends I have online are great for a sounding board sure, but I'm finding nothing beats sitting down with a friend not in this lifestyle (or whatever you want to call it... more labels :rolleyes: ) and just talking about stuff. :)

Cheers!

[Rikkicn]

A I read your post a support group I attended in San Francisco came to mind. I've heard comments like yours before when I went to their meeting.
The name of the group is United Genders of the Universe. Most identify as being gender queer. Meaning they see gender as having more than two options and that they aren't static. You can move from one to the other or stay in an inbetween place if you prefer.
I've meet bio girls that look like boys wearing dresses. And bio boys that look like and identfy as lesbian.
It was all very confusing at first and then very liberating when I began to understand them.

From Wikipedia:
A genderqueer person is part of a group of people who do not fit into the traditional two-gender or gender-binary system. As with any other groups that may be aligned with transgender identities, the reasons for identifying as genderqueer vary.
There are different modes of being genderqueer, and it is an evolving concept. It has been proposed by many scholars that all queer-identified people have trans issues--some more than others. Historically, queer communities have provided spaces where gender expression can come in many and varied forms. Ironically, queer communities, just as susceptible to trends and fashions as anyone else, are sometimes criticized for enforcing certain gender expressions and behaviors. The queer women's controversy over the "death of femme" is an example of this, as is the long-standing controversy among queer men regarding the phrase "straight-acting".
Some believe they are a little of both of the traditional genders or think they have no gender at all. Others view gender as a continuum, with the two traditional genders at the two poles and their place as somewhere within the continuum, while others believe there are as many genders as there are people. Still others believe that gender is a social construct, and choose not to adhere to that construct. Some genderqueers do fit into the stereotypical gender roles expected of their sex, but still reject gender as a social construct. Still other people identify as genderqueer since, though they are cisgendered, they do not fit many of society's expectations for the gender in which they identify. Some genderqueers believe their gender flows from day to day. Many traditional societies, traditional religions, and political ideologies have strict gender identities, roles, and/or positions, and disapprove of such mixing or consider it unnatural.
Some people use "genderqueer" as a politicized version of the term androgyne, which describes persons who have the gender identity of both a man and a woman or neither. This understanding of the term coincides with the term "multi-gendered", which is used more frequently as a term of distinction rather than a phrase for self-identification by individuals.
The term genderqueer can (but does not necessarily) include any transgender person. These individuals challenge the social norms of gender definition, in much the same way as homosexual and bisexual individuals challenge the social norms of sexuality.
The term pansexual exists specifically in reference to the genderqueer understanding of gender, as it reflects a non-binary understanding of gender and its interplay with sexuality.
Some genderqueers identify sufficiently with one gender to use conventional pronouns, others prefer that gender-neutral pronouns should be used to refer to them, such as "ze" and "per", "sie" and "hir", "zhe" and "hir", or singular "they" instead of her/his, some alternate between different pronouns such as the Spivak pronouns, and some prefer the use only of their name and no pronouns at all. Many people of various political stripes view such attempts as political correctness.

I love to find new ideas and ways of thinking about who we are. Don't you?

Love to all
Rikki

[Casey Morgan]

I had read part of that thread but stopped before Ms. Donna's reply. Thank you all for your replies, by the way. Let me see if I understand this. I'm pretty sure I do, I had the type of cry I had in therapy when something finally came together.

So in a way, cross dressing is all about getting into how I feel at a particular moment. If I had a part of me that felt like a cowboy and for some reason it was considered unacceptable for me to be like that, I might wear cowboy clothes and become Pete. I'm not supposed to feel like I do, so Pete lets me distance myself from my own failure to accept who I am and how I feel.

But Pete is a male too. So it would simply feel natural to me. This part of me that I call Shari Ann I associate with females. I am not a female. So my expression of that part of me is and, unless I do something to physically change it, will always be incomplete. Some part of my mind is very aware of this dichotomy between how I feel and how I look. So therefore I wish I had a female body to make the expression of that part of me complete. But such a physical transformation would make other expressions of myself incomplete. I'm somehow aware of that and am unwilling to exchange one incomplete expression for another. So just like somebody who has feelings at the extreme ends of the scale, being unaware of this dichotomy ends up feeling like I wish to be two different people. But I need to be able to switch between them at will.

This switching at will is simply because like other expressions of myself I feel it at varying intensities. Sometimes, for example, I just want to wear a t-shirt and sweatpants and veg, and other times I want to dress sharply. Both of which are easily expressed since they both feel "male" to me. But I see the expression of me when I CD as being female. When the intensity of that is in a middle area, I'm at a loss as to how to feel. Thus, I feel like there's a male and a female there. I recognize happy and sad and it's middle ground of "a little off" to "pretty good". I haven't really learned what that middle part of me is that feels in between male and female. Once I recognize it as a middle ground, I will be better able to deal with it in something other than black and white terms.

God, I thought feeling like I should be a woman sometimes was scary. This idea of exploring my middle ground is even scarier, but I'm excited about it too. It's that kind of scary you feel when you're starting something new. I guess this part is the great adventure in being transgendered.

So, is this the part where the therapist comes in? Because now I feel like I could use some help.

Thanks again, everybody. :happy:

[DonnaT]

But I see the expression of me when I CD as being female. When the intensity of that is in a middle area, I'm at a loss as to how to feel.

It sounds like you think you are supposed to feel something but don't know what it is you are supposed to feel. Sort of like "Is that all there is? I thought I'd feel . . . ."

What is it you think you are supposed to feel?

Me, I feel happy, satisfied, relaxed, content, etc. I don't feel like a woman (whatever that really means), nor do I expect to feel that way. Dressed or not, this is me and I accept it.

[Casey Morgan]

This reminds me a lot of when I had anger management issues. Nice people weren't supposed to get angry. So I ignored any feeling I had that wasn't happy. Nice people weren't supposed to feel that. So I didn't really know how I felt.

Just like this. I don't know what I feel like when I'm not actively trying to suppress what I perceive to be the "wrong" thing to feel. I had to learn then, and I have to learn now.

I'm probably not making much sense right now. I'm not sure I even understand. But I do know that I have to let myself be OK with whatever it is I do feel.

[Marla S]

Just like this. I don't know what I feel like when I'm not actively trying to suppress what I perceive to be the "wrong" thing to feel. I had to learn then, and I have to learn now.
Just a thought, cause I'm unsure about this myself.

We tend to think in extremes.
We tend to think black or white.
We express bipolar: male clothes vs. female clothes.
We tend to rember "loud" feelings like excitement or guilt, happiness or frustration.

But perhaps we should look for the "quiet" feelings, those which are usually covered by the extremes or that seem to be to unspectacular to be mentioned.
Maybe there is something to learn about balance, calmness, and self-acceptance during these moments when nothing special seems to happen.

[kittypw GG]

Just a thought, cause I'm unsure about this myself.

We tend to think in extremes.
We tend to think black or white.
We express bipolar: male clothes vs. female clothes.
We tend to rember "loud" feelings like excitement or guilt, happiness or frustration.

But perhaps we should look for the "quiet" feelings, those which are usually covered by the extremes or that seem to be to unspectacular to be mentioned.
Maybe there is something to learn about balance, calmness, and self-acceptance during these moments when nothing special seems to happen.

OMG, this is just plain beautiful!!!!! Kitty

[Casey Morgan]

Marla, you're dead on. I should probably expand my bit on anger management. I knew how to be happy and I knew how to be enraged. I didn't understand how you could be someplace in the middle. All I knew was black and white. I had to learn and accept that life on that scale was lived someplace between those two. Once I did that I began to discover more of the subtle nuances of who I am.

This is the same thing. I can be a mountain man and I can be girly. But I don't live either place most times. My thoughts, my emotions, my instincts normally aren't so well defined. Case in point: I was watching a show about UFOs and they showed a picture of the Kremlin lit up at night. I thought the architecture was great, but I stopped myself from saying it looked pretty. But darn it, it did look pretty. I'm somebody who thinks that some nicely decorated buildings look pretty. There, I said it and nobody came to take away my membership card from the "I'm a man" club. Feels kind of nice.

Rikki, thanks for that. I don't like the "queer" part of genderqueer (probably because it was used so derrogitorily against gays and lesbians) but the Wikipedia info feels like me. I Googled United Genders of the Universe and got their URL. There's not much there but it's providing some good Google search ideas. Thanks again. (BTW: After reading their definition list, I'm going to stick with "bigendered" for now until I can find a good prefix that means constantly in flux.)

[CaptLex]

The problem is I don't know where to start. Just like with gynecomastia, once I know what to Google for I can begin to map my own road to understanding.

Have you tried looking up "androgyne", "androgyny" or "androgynous"? I've found this site to be helpful: http://androgyne.0catch.com/

You're not alone, Shari Ann, my own journey is only beginning too. Good luck with that map . . . I hope it leads to a treasure! ;)

[Casey Morgan]

Thanks for the link Lex. I had looked into androgynous before but what I found sounded like androgyne was either the same as or the physical opposite of intersexed. I was only able to read part of the page and skim the rest, but so far it sounds spot on. I'm really looking forward to reading the rest of the homepage and digging a little deeper into that site. Thanks again.