Beards- sex symbol, or wearisome inconvenience?

[phili]

A member pm'd me to ask what is going on with my beard. I brought the discussion here, since understanding each other is central to fulfilling our mission of safety and inclusivity.

The purpose of this post is to invite members to weigh in on how they feel about and deal with their beards- or potential beards!

I have never shaved my beard. Well, actually I did, once, the first time a few hairs appeared. I was so happy to lather up and shave like dad! Then a few days later, I couldn't believe that there they were again! I decided I wasn't going to fight with my biology every day.

The role of beards in society has shifted many times since then, and, like the weather, I just let it all pass by. But I have been curious at how occasionally people have been very intense about my beard. Once I had a small group of people insist that I was hiding behind my beard. I couldn't figure out what they thought I was hiding, but it was important to them. There were the years where beards were considered badges of being unkempt, even if trimmed, and uncooperative with social norms. There were periods where beards were style statements for men and embraced in the fashion press.

On this Forum, I have found that my beard is a lightning rod for all sorts of really strong feelings, mostly negative and very freely expressed.

I am sympathetic. Beards and noticeable breasts are the clearly visible body character that distinguishes male and female, and that distinction underlies so much distribution of privilege in our society.

You simply cannot wear a dress and have a beard- right? At least, you can't expect anyone to take you seriously. I look in the mirror when I dress and love what I see, but my eyes pause on the beard, and... hey I have to make this work or I am going to have to shave, and spend hours fooling around with makeup while the little hairs start popping through.... I found it actually easier to expand my view and realize that people with beards can wear dresses and be feminine, if I let them.

Granted, it is a minority interest. The majority understandably like the Miss America version of crossdressing, where the competition is to achieve a particular accepted look, and I know I am essentially the ugly girl who could never compete, so I want to have an 'everyone wins' club instead.

I browsed the internet for men with beards in dresses, and it didn't take long to see that I had brothers with beards who loved wearing dresses, and there were women who loved wearing dresses, too but were suffering from having beards, mustaches, and hair in places that custom dictated that ideal women didn't have hair.

There is a lot of suffering over hair, and I say let's drop the attachments to our arbitrary values on this and let people wear dresses however they look!

[Pat]

I hear you and admire you, but my personal need to see the reflection I identify with in the mirror requires me to eliminate facial hair -- even a good shave isn't sufficient because beard hairs create large pores, so I "have" to do electrolysis to feel right. I've spent about $8K on it and I figure I'm about halfway done. I frequently think about trans folks in the days before all our procedures were available -- I believe you are on the more traditional/correct track in a way, but it's not one I can follow. Total respect to you and everyone like you. You are following your truth and you are sharing it so others can discover theirs. :thumbsup:

[Teresa]

Phili,
Confession time for me !
I didn't have a great relationship with my father , he was a heavy drinker and an overbearing bully . He developed Bell's Palsy, so grew a beard to cover it, I'm afraid it made him even worse . Some people believe men grow beards to hide behind them, in my father's case I think it was true his behaviour became more aggressive. So now I do have an obvious dislike of beards , I have to say I've met many people who do hide behind them almost like a disguise and will add they were all abrasive individuals . I know now I'm going to get many members saying I have or had a beard and I'm not like that . I'm just speaking from personal experience , so I don't want to sidetrack this thread .

Now put the two together , that is CDing and beards and I conjure up an image of my father ( at 6' plus weighing over twenty stone ) wearing a dress . So for obvious reasons MIADs aren't going to work for me , no way am I going to resemble in any shape or form my father !

Sorry Phili you have some lovely clothes but I'll never , never be a convert , It's all or nothing for me ! To put the icing on the cake I was seen by a female customer trying on a swimsuit and she said , " I wish I looked like you ! " That could never happen to a MIAD !

It doesn't take me that long everyday to totally shave , the end rersult is so worth it , if I choose to dress I'm ready to go , in the last few days it's been nearly full time and felt so wonderful . I have to say going out now dressed feels very normal .

Sorry , I missed SEX SYMBOL ! Not for me for the reasons stated above . I will add it must be hard for some women to be on the receiving end of kissing a guy with a beard , again some are going to say my wife loves mine but I don't find the idea sexy at all .

[JenniferMBlack]

Here is my take on beards ,it's two parts first only how I view my personal beard and two others beards.
I personally don't like haveing a beard. I don't lile how I look with it, and I hate shaving everyday. So for me personally it is a wearysome inconvenience. As a CD this is even more so.
Now for others and as a Bi male I like a guy with a beard, So in that context total sex symbol. To add to that I also like guys who crossdress And for me guy In a dress with a beard is very sexy. I know I am wei rd d in that but just how I feel.
Dint let other dictate how you live your live or what makes you happy, Be yourself.
For the record Phil I think you look very nice from your pictures.

[MarciaMarsha]

Just got done with a shave and a haircut, so I’ll weigh in.

Dealing with thick, coarse, rapidly-growing hair on ones face gets to be burdensome.

I shave my beard off about once per month, or when it starts itching, curling into my mouth, collecting food, collecting toothpaste, collecting whatever I’m drinking, and generally being a pain. I like my beard, and the ladies (GGs) love it, so I put up with until I can’t, or until I have a night out. I need to get rid of my facial hair if I’m going to be Marcia for an evening. Some people don’t have these hangups, and I salute them.

[Elizabeth G]

Hi Phili,

I understand and applaud your position on beards.

I however would prefer to be clean shaven when presenting female. Truth be told I would MUCH prefer to be clean shaven all of the time or in a perfect world be rid of my facial hair permanently. That being said, I typically have a goatee. This isn't because I want to but because it helps keep the domestic peace (I know, I know "it's your face you should do what you want with it"). I'm not going to get into that here but for my own reasons that is where I am at this time.

Elizabeth

[Ozark]

I have a full beard and mustache--- reason being is Xeralto...

[Teresa]

Elizabeth,

I'll leave it as ??? in that case but we all have those little foibles !!

[jacques]

hello,
I stopped shaving my face when I was 17. So I do not have the correct face, or body or other bits to present as female. I am a crossdresser.
Each to their own!
luv J

[Beverley Sims]

I have a light hairy face and I just shave it to look clean.

[Micki_Finn]

It’s not for me, as I feel my true self shines through at its most feminine, but I don’t have any problem with other people sporting them while dressed. I’ve seen others attacking beards and those who wear them and it saddens me, because it’s usually people trying to pidgeonhole others into their very narrow and often cheuvenistic view of womanhood.

You be you and do whatever makes you feel FABULOUS!

[Gillian Gigs]

About 4 years ago I grew a beard in frustration over the continual pimples and rash between my lip and chin. When I was younger I had a moustache, and my wife always liked it, now it is moustache and whiskers for the lip to the chin area which is trimmed short. This has no impact on my particular CD'ing habits. If we are not harming anyone, who's business is it what we choose to do.

[carhill2mn]

Personally, I do not like facial hair of any kind on anyone. As for myself, it is my intention to look as much like a woman as I can which means as little hair as possible except on my head.

[Pumped]

I have had a mustache since I was in my late teens. I have been blessed with the ability to grow thick facial hair fast! I started growing a beard 15 years ago and my wife loves it so I don't see it going away anytime so I guess I will be a MIAD.

Sometimes I envy those that do not have a hair issue. My arms , legs, and back or covered too. I "manscape" what I can easily reach, but even then my wife tells me to let it grow. I don't shave, but trim it short.

[RADER]

I have been cursed with a tone of chest hair, Back hair, and a 5 O Clock shadow that comes in at noon.
That is some of the many reasons I stay inside while dressed.
But I do under dress all the time.
Rader

[Sashauk]

I shaved off my beard a few days ago after over 30 years with one. It was mostly grey and, although I always kept it short, it was starting to make me look even older than I am. Everyone so far has said removing the beard has made me look younger.

Luckily it seems to grow very slowly so even now over 12 hours since I shaved my face is still quite smooth to the touch and no sign of shadow.

[MarciaMarsha]

I shaved off my beard a few days ago after over 30 years with one. It was mostly grey and, although I always kept it short, it was starting to make me look even older than I am. Everyone so far has said removing the beard has made me look younger.

Luckily it seems to grow very slowly so even now over 12 hours since I shaved my face is still quite smooth to the touch and no sign of shadow.

After a month or so, my beard makes me look like willie Nelson, or the Unibomber or some old, haggard white guy. Others disagree, but that’s how I see myself. I look and feel younger and better after a shave.

[Alice_2014_B]

As I said in another thread, I'm not a fan of the look.
And at the same time I have zero issues with those who like it.

I like to shave for and keep a goatee; the wife really likes it and calls it the, "Tony Stark stash" on me.

I just go completely clean-shaven when I dress up, have to be in uniform, or some event that calls for it.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I personally don't go for the bearded woman look, but to each his own.

I've always had a heavy beard (as a guy). I grew a very good full beard over the summer between my junior and senior year in HS.

I've had full beards, mustaches, long sideburns, Fu-Man Chu and other styles throughout my life. I had known my GF/wife for over 30 years before she saw my face hairless. I finally got talked into shaving it off completely sometime after I turned 50. I did this reluctantly, because this was the main thing keeping me at the "Lingerie Stage" of CDing, rather than proceeding to fully dressing. As I suspected, shaving my beard allowed my CDing to flourish, and within 5 years I had met some local CD friends and went out and about with them.

[giuseppina]

I've had a beard for about 30 years now, shaving only to install some blown cellulose insulation in the house because the masks don't work with a beard.

It's mostly white now. While it ages me, shaving is expensive. ;)

There was a poster who dressed with a beard that I haven't seen any postings from them for some time now.

[Kiwi Primrose]

I have had a beard for most of my life. It is closely trimmed all the time, never shaggy. This way it appears that people see "me" not a man with a beard. Meeting someone new a few days ago her first comment was "is that a killt or skirt you are wearing?"; she did not mention my beard and did not have any adverse reaction to my skirt.
I believe the reaction you get mainly comes from your own presentation. Go out confidently and naturally and people tend not to notice your beard.
My hero - Conchita Wurst.

[suzanne]

A beard is not me. I once had a mustache for over twenty years, but never entertained the idea of growing a full crop of facial hair. I shave two or three times a week, so sometimes I find myself going out with a light stubble, but so what?

But as someone whose presentation is in many other ways similar to yours, I say "Why the heck not?" If it works for you, then do it. I support you. To those who are negative about beards, I have to ask "What gives?" Those of us who feel marginalised and unaccepted by the rest of the world should be supporting each other wherever possible. Because every time one of us steps out into the world dressed in our own style, we chip away at the prejudices of toxic masculinity, making the way just a bit clearer for those who have yet to uncloset themselves.

[phili]

Thanks, everyone! I think we have a pretty good representation from those who find a beard of some kind really doesn't feel like an obstacle. In many cases our SOs find it reassuring, and that works ok if we are kind of genderfluid. I can see it could be a form of maintaining a compromise with the world that wants some kind of reassurance about my masculinity.

There are plenty who really don't like the look, and certainly a logical point of crossdressing is to leave maleness completely behind!

I am curious whether actually shaving is as much trouble as I have believed all these years, and Teresa and Becky keep telling me that if only I shaved I would discover that crossdressing would be a lot more fun!

I have to say it is so much fun now I have trouble believing that, but I can see that it would give me a lot more looks to try out, with far less visual clash, and I admit I would like that, just for the additional visual satisfaction of seeing my face transformed. I am amazed in how beautiful everyone's smiles are when dressed in the Boy v Girl picture thread.

Given my marriage, shaving and going whole hog is out of reach, so I valiantly promote my story in defense of my compromise!

I appreciate everyone chiming in, and I hope others learned something or got a good feeling as well from the sharing.

[Becky Blue]

Firstly let me say each to their own, we on here should be the first to NOT judge anyone.
For me with light skin and dark hair, shaving was my most hated ritual, I constantly got neck rashes and small cuts...and needed to shave daily as its a source of GD for me. Clearly letting it grow was not an option for me, so the solution was Laser which alas a did a bit too old (grey hairs sighhh), but the results have been amazing, after 6 or so sessions 95% of my dark hairs were gone. a very light very quick shave every 2nd day and I am as smooth as any woman..

I might add that very lucky for me my wife hates facial hair on men so thats how I got sign off for laser...

Whilst I do feel for woman who have to put on makeup every day... for me putting it on occasionally is great fun, I love the smells the feel the look of makeup.

[Charlotte7]

It really is a case of each to their own. I think that the dress and beard look, though not for me personally, can look stunning. Further, it can also really question other's perception of what gender is and how it works in society. It has to be remembered that, with same sex marriage now successfully achieved in many places, open cross dressing, and here I'm referring to people like myself who are not TS, is a taboo that is still firmly in place. I, for one, have to think that anything which questions that can only be a good thing.

[Sashauk]

Phili,
I crossdressed for years with a beard and was perfectly happy with my look but I don't go out dressed so it was only my opinion. Personally I think that it is entirely up to the individual as to whether or not they have a beard and crossdress - I congratulate you for having the courage to go out like that.

Also I don't agree that crossdressing is all about leaving your maleness behind. For me it is just that I love to wear pretty soft colourful things - the tugging of suspenders, the hug of the bra and the swish of the skirt are what do it for me. I know that a lot love to be seen as, and feel like, a complete woman - and there are some stunning examples of that here - but I'm not that, I'm just a man in lingerie and a dress.

As for shaving being a chore - I always felt it was but since shaving my beard off the other day I really do like my look so much better. I suppose being retired helps as I don't have any pressure on me to get out the door in the morning - I can take my time. I'm a little tender, which is only to be expected after 30 years of not shaving, but I'm sure that will go in a few days, and I'm using L'Oreal Hydra Genius Liquid Moisturiser mornings and nights to look after the skin.

[GeorgeA]

As a dedicated miad, I proudly sport my moustache and goatee. I am a man, I do not impersonate a woman. I dress for comfort and utility. I live my life as a man in skirts and lingerie. That is my normal attire, that's how I spend most of my time. When required to present as a man I underdress. I simply exchange my skirt for trousers. I have no feminine traits, no pink fog, I am a man who likes to dress differently than most other men (CDs excepted).

I can appreciate that for those of you who emulate women facial hair is a burden, but not for me. Of course, I don't go out, as our society is not yet ready to accept a bearded man in a skirt.

P.S. I find it reassuring that so many of posters here, share my miad philosophy to various degrees.

[Shayna]

In the past I had varying degrees of facial hair (beard, goatee, patch, mustache). I think I kept them at times because the appearance helped keep me from dressing. Eventually I shaved it off and kept it off because the feeling came back too strong, plus it was graying and at the time I had a goatee and was starting to look like Col. Sanders.

[Ceera]

I spent most of my life as a male wearing a full beard. Grew one right after high school, and always kept it neatly trimmed. I would have had a beard in high school, but my employers at the time either didn't allow full beards, or discouraged them. My wife hated it the few times I shaved my beard off, mostly because I was already six years younger then she was, and my face looked so much younger without the beard that she thought people would think she was 'robbing the cradle'! And one time when I shaved it off, our young (grade school aged) daughter hardly recognized me, and said she didn't like seeing her daddy without his beard.

When I first started to consider cross dressing, the beard seemed like a barrier for me. Being a man in a dress it didn't work for my mindset, as being seen as a 'man in a dress' didn't satisfy the feminine voices in my mind which wanted to express my female side. I found I simply didn't want to go out dressed if I couldn't at least try to 'pass', and yet I had no excuse to give my wife for wanting to shave it off. But if being a 'man in a dress' makes you happy, that is great, for you, or for anyone who likes to do that. I will not speak against you for doing so. In fact, a MIAD bothers me much less than a cisgender male who is presenting female, and doing reasonably well at it, but who is at the same time not bothering to try to feminize their voice.

After my parents and my wife died, at age 56 I came out to my daughter and tried cross-dressing in public. My beard got shaved off, both to make me 'passable', and because the shock of three major loved ones dying in less than three years turned my beard mostly white, and made me look like I was my daughter's grandfather, not her father. I looked decidedly older than I was. But without the beard, and with feminine makeup, I found that I can pass for a cisgender woman in my 30's to 40's, and some people even seriously think I am only in my late 20's! It was like jumping in the fountain of youth, for me.

I identify as Transgender now, and I'll probably get my legal gender identity changed to female in the next year or two. So to me, my beard is now strictly a nuisance. I need to shave twice a day while presenting female, and I am spending 90% or more of my social time as a woman, so I end up shaving a lot! I am hoping to start getting HRT and electrolysis soon, to eliminate the beard and other body hair as much as I can, for a more female appearance.

[Teresa]

Ceera,
That is an unusual comparison, to compare a MIAD with a full CDer who doesn't soften their voice.

None of my social group change their voice even TSs even after hormones the male tone is still apparent , I don't have a problem with my voice when out and about but I would have a problem to go out as a MIAD . I spoke to a lecture theatre full of delegates dressed a few weeks ago and was very well accepted . It's almost impossible to retain a false voice after a few minutes , it will possibly raise more eyebrows and comments than not trying to attempt it .

[Vickie_CDTV]

Maybe it is a generational or family thing. When I was growing up (1980s-early 90s) beards were considered "dirty", and it was assumed I would shave it and never let it grow. My father was obsessive about shaving and never went a day without. My skin didn't allow me to shave daily though, but I have never gone more than a few days without shaving my face. Maybe I get my unwanted hair obsession from him.

[Asew]

Most of my life I have shave most days. But since I use the same electric razor all these years and only ever replaced the shaver head once, it leaves an even amount of stuble instead of a clean shave. The last few years, in the warm months I shave daily and in the cold months I trim weekly. I can't stand to grow out my beard as it feels weird when I can see it in my peripheral vision and it tickles my nose. My wife doesn't like facial hair so she always supports me shaving more often :)

As for crossdressing it doesn't bother me, since that hair is just a part of me. Just like my leg hair peeking out under my skirts which I have no desire to shave. I have heard several comments about my leg hair and women's clothes and none about facial hair.

I definitely understand the feeling about how it can add that bit of masculinity to make it easier on the wife. When I told my wife about my dressing, I did grow my facial hair out a bit to have that masculinity still there but she preferred me to shave anyways.

[JeanTG]

I tried having a beard twice in my life. Enough to know that they are not for me. I hate facial hair. As a lesbian they do nothing for me sexually. I am also moderately transgendered and now life part of my life as a woman at the suggestion of my therapist (alas, DADT, but I'm alone at home 3x per week and I've started going out when I need to do errands, etc.).

On days I don't dress, I am lazy and use an electric razor, but on days I dress I use a razor in the shower to get a really close shave. My therapist suggested I go for laser hair removal, but I fear I may get some push-back. I got lots of it when I started shaving my body, but persisted anyway.

To each their own but a beard with a dress is very incongruous to me.

[Cheryl T]

Beards are ok on guys, but for me it's just a very inconvenient and annoying fact of biology.
I wish I had taken the time to have it removed years ago.

[WendyG]

I have been crossdressing since I was a kid. I recall discussing what causes a "stiiffy" with my cousin when I was about 10. I said thinking about wearing panties would do it. It worked for me but apparently nothing for my cousin. When I went to college in the late 60's I grew a beard and long hair. I think the reason for the beard was twofold. I was a bit of a hippie but also it made me feel like no one could possibly suspect I was CD. then I got married and had kids. I have occasionally shaved it off but always let it return. Wife liked it on and the first time my 5 yr old son saw me shaved he cried and said "shave it on". Years gone by and now I am divorced and living alone for the last 20 or so years and am now retired for two years. I dress almost every day but I still am bearded and closeted although I have not cut my hair since I retired. (kind of back to hippie). When I am in male mode, I like the beard. When In female mode I wish I didn't have the beard but if I don't look in the mirror, the me that I see when dressed is female and my hair is shoulder length and make me feel feminine when it brushes my neck. So I am pretty good with that. My pic is me a year ago when my hair was shorter and I had shaved. I have been thinking about shaving again and finding some place to go out. Tired of being stuck at home when dressed.

[mdavis]

I've got a love/hate relationship with my facial hair at the moment and my desire to dress more and the deepening urge to "go out" is at the heart of it.
When I have a beard (I've had a full one but my usual look has typically been a goatee and mustache) I look in the mirror and like it. I like the look on me. I use to have no problem dressing when I had facial hair. I can't really explain it but as I've kind of "progressed" in my dressing I don't feel right dressing with my beard. I'm not at the point where I do full makeup like others (working on dipping my toes in those waters and experimenting) but, when I dress I feel the need now to be clean shaven.
It's actually presented a bit of a conundrum for me. My wife likes my facial hair. She.....well.....I THINK.....she knows I dress (or have) (short version-a few years ago she found some of my Michelle clothes-asked who's they were-suspecting I was cheating-and I told her they were mine and that I crossdressed. The conversation never went any farther and hasn't resurfaced since) Anyway, I have no idea if she suspects I shave because I'm dressing or if she's ok with my excuse that I like to change things up now and then and have a love/hate relationship with my facial hair.

[phili]

I give this a lot of thought since my beard is a permanent fixture, and I am very visually oriented as a designer.

Beauty/threat/male or masculine badge/throwback to ice age living? It is definitely in the eye of the beholder, the many layers of meaning for beards arising from people's interactions with them at a distance, up close, with media images, in conversation.


Just visually, I notice that if my hair is combed to one side in a typical masculine haircut style, the beard is more noticeable as a part of that familiar image. My eyes go across the top- ok- man, then down and evaluate the mustache and beard trim for its qualifiers- full but trimmed- symbolic of proud manhood, not sloppy, not quite assertive, controlled but not picky, etc.


When my hair is more like evenly curled [think Greek statues] my beard is subsidiary, the base of a vase shape, and not obtrusive. Creating some small space between mustache and beard, and a lilt to the upper trim line of the beard made a huge difference in overall youthfulness, despite the gray. Then, whatever I am wearing, the focus is then on my eyes.


I said elsewhere I would be quite glad not to have the beard if it were magically easy- and that is because it requires a lot of management not to interfere with conveying my femininity. But overall I don't feel it is a big problem - it feels to me that women understand that males have more facial hair and just expect me to do something nie with it, like they do with whatever they are born with. Men are busy being upset at their Pavlovian attraction to our cute dresses conflicting with the 'stay-away,it's a man' message of our beards, and as society now frowns on them beating us up to prove they aren't attracted, I don't worry.

[robbieatbest]

I have a goatee at the moment. I will shave it off when I want to be in public and want to look like a woman. My wife really likes my beard and it doesn't stop me dressing. However I do like to wear make up and look as female as possible. Shaving does play havoc with the skin though and so a rest is maybe good for it. I can't see myself going for electrolysis or laser treatment, pain and expense appear too much.
Robbie