Why don't guys look you in the eye ?

[Teresa]

I was just answering a thread by Sidney in the NB section and my comment about guys not looking you in the eye came up again . I wonder if others had some thoughts on this one ?

I sometimes feel like saying , " It's not contagious !" OK perhaps they are denying any gay feelings , what will the wife next to you think if you're staring into a CDer's eyes ? On only one occasion has a guy looked me in the eye, ( no not in anger !) we were having breakfast at a hotel ( I was dressed ) after a great night eating and dancing . The couple had gatecrashed our party and really enjoyed it , the wife was an attractive blond girl and she was really into finding out what made us tick , when the husband spoke he looked straight at me . I picked on this point with his wife that very few guys will do this , she almost apologised for him by saying he was an officer in the army and it's part of his training . I must admit I've always done it with men or women because of being a professional photographer for thirty years , I need to know what makes people tick so I need to read them quickly if' I was to get the best pictures .

So does the next question follow if a guy does gaze into my eyes how do I deal with it ? Well I've had one pass made at me and dealt with it , I'm not into guys, full stop ! I have to say I was slighlty flatterred as no one has ever made a pass at me in drab or dressed before .

What thoughts do others have ?

[DaisyLawrence]

I'm assuming that you mean after being clocked as a crossdresser and in that case I think they are just trying to be polite. It's a bit like when people see someone with a severe facial disfigurement or other obvious physical or mental disability which must be hard to live with, the onlooker is always aware of not wanting the person to think they are staring and this results in them deliberately not making eye contact. People I know like this often say that they can tell that they are deliberately 'not being stared at' but they are OK with it because they realise that the person is trying to make the effort not to offend. I think women are different because they usually avoid looking other men in the eye for fear of giving off the wrong sexual signal but they probably feel it is safe to do so to a crossdresser who, rightly or wrongly, they perceive as less of a threat than the average aplha male. That what my wifes thinks anyway.

[Vikky]

Hi Teresa
I guess they could secretly want to CD themselves but never taken that first step.
Incidentally you are making great progress, and I am somewhat envious.
Vikky

[Teresa]

Daisy,
You may have hit the nail on the head because I'm not making that assumption because I always assume I don't pass 100% .

OK I have had a couple of experiences where that has been tipped on it's head. First I went back to my old town to see a film in the Art Centre where my mothers still helps out , I had to check at the reception desk and asked a lady who I have seen often if my mother was on duty , she took me totally as female until I spelled it out to her .

On the second occasion I decided to try a swimsuit on in Matalan and a lady shopper in the changing area told me she wished she looked like me with my figure and legs , I didn't know what to say to that but it knocked my thoughts on the passing question sidewards !

[Pat]

I agree with Daisy -- I think that people not looking at you (male or female) is just a sign of social discomfort. If it's a situation where you can interact, then they'll eventually get over it and start looking at you. I often break the ice with a humorous cultural reference that they'll know -- do the setup for a line in a Monty Python skit, for example, and let them provide the punchline. If you can get them to smile, you'll win them over. But if you don't have a chance to interact, just write it off. It's a problem they own that they have to deal with. In most situations, I focus on the task at hand and let people make up their minds about me based on my deeds.

[MarciaMarsha]

Indeed, most people are just trying to be polite. A guy looking you in the eye could send the wrong signal, one way or the other. Easier for him to just appreciate my shoes. Or legs. Or whatever.

[alwayshave]

I'm a naturally shy person so I'm not likely to initially look people in the eye until I know them. That being said, looking a women directly in the eye in male mode I would reserve until some sort of relationship has developed, either personal or professional. In that way the women would know my looking them in the eye was not a prelude to a sexual overture, either because we were friends or colleagues. So, I don't have an issue with someone not initially looking me in the eye.

[Stacy Darling]

I don't read to much into the eyeward glance. It to me has no real meaning as even though it is one of our senses it is usually used in a learned way rather than a natural reactive way.

The guys that are attracted to me ( makeup & 1/2 dressed ) will usually look at my eyes to see if I give the same lustful look back, the others are in denial :lol:---:lol:

Stacy!

[Allisa]

I don't know maybe I'm not the normal male(ya think), but I look everybody in the eye when talking to them. I have noticed that males talking to me (when en-femme) look a little lower than my eyes, usually a 38C even though they know my physical gender. I think we confuse them and maybe have them question themselves so they avoid eye contact, they don't want to catch "IT" because that's how it's transmitted.

[Teresa]

OK so I'm one for looking people straight in the eye , to me it's not a sign of some sexual attraction but more a sign of an open and honest person . As I said I did it as part of my profession also when explaining prices for our services I was always looking for signs of misunderstanding the deal on offer . OK so I admit I'm a flirt with the ladies , what harm does a little eye contact do ?

Pat,
I can't see it implies social discomfort , to me if someoone can't look you in the eye they may have something to hide .

Going back to the question of the thread , just being out and about , passing people in the street , shopping in the supermarket , guests in a hotel , the men may have eyed you up and down thinking you haven't noticed but they will so often divert their eyes whereas the majority of women don't . OK you will get some that just don't approve and almost turn their back on you , it's usually the old sort who are stuck with the traditional idea of a man !

Lisa,
I had to smile because I've just remembered talking to a group of policemen doing a lost person search when I was walking the dog, I was in drab but wearing an obvious Wonderbra , one of them spoke mainly to my chest !
Do you really think it's comtagious , so that's the mistake I made when I was a boy I must have touched a bra !!

Vicky,
It is getting to be quite a ride , it has been a long time coming so I'm staying on board now, no jumping ship !!

[2B Natasha]

I took a class on this once. It was about the different hierarchies in different countries. One of the things discussed was this subject. The material showed. Men don’t generally look other people in the eyes when they talk. It’s a well established trait. Why. Nobody knows for sure. Perhaps it’s a dominance trait from way back. In man mode I use it all the time. Freaks other men out. Women on the other hand DO look people in the eyes when they talk to each other. None of this has anything to do with cd,s or trans people or not trans people. It is just the natural way of people.

[Gillian Gigs]

Some cultures say that the eyes are the window to the soul. Eye to eye contact is then a soulful thing. People usually look away when they are lying. Women have little to no problem in soul to soul relationships, but men on the other hand are different. Personally, I get unnerved when someone doesn't give me eye contact. I start to think that they are hiding something, or they are embarrassed about something. Some people who believe the window thing will wear dark sunglasses to cover their windows with drapes so to speak, and so prevent others from looking into their souls.

[Teresa]

Ressie,
I was only relating it to CDing because I find men will make eye contact otherwise , as you say it can be a dominance activity , how often have we heard people say don't make eye contact with aggresive dogs and wild animals , in that case it is submissive action . In men it's more of a dominance trait than trying to make sexual contact , as I don't relate to it I haven't noticed it .

Gillian ,
I have to agree with you , eyes can so much without a word being spoken , charities using a child's picture to raise funds to animators like Disney all know their impact .

[Sashauk]

Some people just can't look you in the eye whatever you are wearing.

I have an acquaintance that will never look straight at you. We can have a fairly long conversation and all the time he is looking away with just the odd glance in my direction - and that's when I'm in complete male mode.

[Vickie_CDTV]

People who are socially shy (like myself) often don't make eye contact with strangers. (I have a strong aversion to eye contact with men who are complete strangers.) Some people have difficulty making eye contact for other reasons, such as autism. Like someone said, it may also be that the person is just unsure of how to react to someone and just wants to avoid any issue altogether. It does not always mean someone has something to hide.

[Micki_Finn]

In some cultures, looking someone in the eyes for an extended period is considered a challenge. You demure to the authority of others by not locking eyes. It’s a common dominance thing. You’ll notice it commonly in dogs. If a dog considers you an alpha, you’ll see that they won’t make extended close eye contact.

[carhill2mn]

I am a person who does not look directly into a person's eyes unless I know them well. Even then, I often look away after a little while so as to not appear "too friendly". I have found that when I am presenting as a woman I am much more likely to look a person in the eye.

[AllieSF]

I have not had that happen to me. I look people in the eye and then for some conscious reason concentrate more on the mouth. Thus many times I can associate someone who looks like someone else, usually someone in the news like actors or more well known people. I have not noticed men looking down while talking with me or anyone else. Yes, the introverted, more shy, people will do that. I think that it may also be something cultural.

As for looking down when seeing someone with a disfigured face, I get that. I wonder if that is being disrespectful to the other person. From their point of view something like, "Hey, I am human too, a real wonderful person, please do not look down when looking at me. Get used to my different looks and treat me with respect." I try to look them in the eyes at all times, though sometimes it is hard to do when natural instincts take over.

[DaisyLawrence]

Allie. Looking those with a difigured face in the eye is great but what people are trying to do, almost at an instinctive level, is not to look like they are looking at the face. This is learned behaviour and deemed to be the polite thing to do. Kids haven't learnt it, how many times do you hear a parent chastise a young child by saying 'don't stare, it's rude'?

[Teresa]

I'm not sure how looking disfigured people in the eye crept into this thread , it wasn't my point at all. Not to worry it does raise an important side issue .

The whole issue of disfigurement and disabilities was something I had to come to terms with in my professional photography business , everyone is equal and deserves the same treatment in my eyes it was a shame some of the other professional bodies didn't think the same way !

[sometimes_miss]

What thoughts do others have ?

Many, many men are homophobic to at least a little extent. So when they see someone they think is gay, they don't want to admit even to themselves that it might happen to themselves as well. And they don't even want to talk to you or admit you exist.

Then you have the ones who do look directly at you, who simply don't care one way or another.

Then of course you have the third group, who ARE interested in you.

I Think that explains them all.

[Lana Mae]

Teresa, when I was last out and donated to the Tootsie Roll charity, there were two men there! Both looked me in the eyes! One with an "Oh, my God!" look(the younger of the two) and the other who was thanking another giver to the charity(me) with a big grin on his face!(the older man!) I am sure they had a great discussion afterwards! The JW lady looked me directly in the eyes and never skipped a beat and ended with a thank you! Just my experiences! Hugs Lana Mae Just a little addition: Most men are not secure in their own masculinity! IE: homophobic!

[kimdl93]

Interesting topic. I had to think about my own reactions for a while. And I think I'm understanding my own reactions.

Its not just that guys don't make eye contact with us. Its people in general. We often avoid eye contact in crowded situations. I think mostly so we can go about our business without feeling compelled to give a moment of acknowledgement to the swarms of people going past. Imagine how long you'd last actually making eye contact with every person you encountered, no matter how peripherally. There's no motive, other than to get on with one's business.

Of course, in other situations all of us may avoid eye contact for personal reasons....like not wanting to address an unpleasant circumstance in that particular moment.

[Teresa]

Lana,
Like I said I'm an open person and will look people in the eye .

When I wrote this, the sitautions that come to mind were in a busy hotel where other guests do tend to make an effort to be sociable , passing them in the various public rooms in drab many couples will respond but dressed the women do but the men don't . Now I come to think about it in supermarkets when a couple are shopping it's often the man that tends to be watching you when you he thinks you haven't noticed but soon diverts his eyes if you do look back .

[Beverley Sims]

I think guys don't look girls in the eye because they are self conscious about intimidating others.

I always look at women and smile in either mode.

I rarely look at men when dressed except if I notice them staring at me , then I stare back. :-)

That pisses them off and I love it!!!!!

God I'm a bitch.

[Alice Torn]

Well said Gillian.

[Asew]

I don't really look anyone in the eye, and if I do it is someone I like and have already spent a lot of time with, not a stranger. I take offense when someone tries to look me in the eye rather than not :)