What does "Being Outed" mean to u?

[docrobbysherry]

I've been here for ages. Until recently, I thot "being outed" meant your family, relatives, or non trans work folks or friends knew u dressed? I go out a lot to large T events in vanilla venues. I have countless T friends, their spouses, and a few men that attend those events.:drink:

But, I think of myself as a closet dresser because I don't go out dressed near where I live. No one, except my immediate family, knows I dress. So, I'm out to them, but no one else. I do not consider myself being outed to the 1000+ strangers that have seen me out dressed. Because they don't know anything about my male persona!:heehee:

Yet, I'm reading more and more posts here like, "I outed myself to the SA!". If the SA knew who u were in drab? Then, I would agree. But, many of these SA's, etc. that dressers say they r outed to r strangers!:straightface:

Do u consider it "outing yourself" when the person is a stranger!?:brolleyes:

[LydiaL]

I concur with your definition of "being outed" (or "out to") completely. I do not believe that dressed and presenting to strangers, whether "read" or not, constitutes meeting the definition of "being outed".

[helicd]

Never really thought about it, but I'd have to say that for me being 'outed' would be when someone sees me dressed and is able to connect it to my normal every day male persona.

As for strangers, who cares what they think :devil:

[Queen Bridget]

I don't really class it as "outing" when strangers see you. Since their reaction has no impact on your life.

[Elizabeth G]

I'm with you on this Doc. There are quite a few people who know I dress or have seen me dressed but I'm only "out" to two.

[Sara Jessica]

It's easy, you are out but you are not OUT.

Outing oneself to a stranger or maintaining a separation between the two sides of you doesn't make you out. I am living proof.

Being out means no subterfuge whatsoever.

[Dana44]

I have to agree. if you are out to strangers then you are not out.

[Julie MA]

If someone sees you "out" doesn't mean you are "outed". I think someone needs to know more about the greater percentage you before you are outed. And if they are strangers before and after that outing, it doesn't really matter.

[GracieRose]

Because they don't know anything about my male persona!:heehee::

I have to agree with you Doc.
Anyone that cannot connect the two personae doesn't matter.
It is the person that can connect the two that can create an issue.

[Gillian Gigs]

I will join with the consensus, to me being outed is to someone who knows me personally. Whether it is telling another, or being scene in a CD state, there has to be a personal connection to it being in the "outed" scenario.

[Teresa]

Sherry,
So lets get the basic fact of what we think " Outed " means .

To me it simply means people whether friends and family or the general public know I crossdress , in other words the secret is out in the open .

So we now come to the degrees of being outed , all my family know but none have seen me so to me I'm not out 100% to them which is a huge difference . You question whether being out to a stranger is truly being out to who you are . When our nearest and dearest finally find out what are their fears ? They first think what will the family think , then they consider the " Shame " of good friends knowing but finally they really don't want is it spread around the countryside , you may not know the SA personally but the chances are they will have a friend of a friend and along the grapevine it will gradually filter back home . So no matter who you come out to it's still exposing family , friends and the general public to your crossdressing .

To me it had to happen , I separated from my wife so I could fully come to terms with it . Gradually in small steps I'm dressing more and more , my neighbours all know and have seen me , most of the people associated with my move and property buying have seen me as both but some only as Teresa , the SAs in my regular shops have become friends . The real tester for me was standing in front of a group of NHS delegates dressed to talk about the NHS in regard to the help I've received as a TG , to me that was OUT in a big way .

Also you question if not being known in drab is really coming out , well if transition is still in the future for me , I'm sure many TSs don't want to retain any evidence of the male traits , so what does being out then mean to TSs . I can only guess that it means out totally as a woman , there is no inbetween to fall back on . This is also why I couldn't do MIAD , why do I want the inbetween state ? There is no comfort for me dressed in that state , to me it's a total confusion as I'm sure it is to other people .

Crossdressing has two states , being closely stuck in the closet where no one knows , as soon as you tell one person or the postman sees you , you are " OUT " full stop , because that is when the real ups and downs start , you don't know what the next step is , whether you can even continue and decide to purge all your stuff or decide I need more and the " Pink Fog " takes over

Others have answered strangers don't matter but it is a small World you don't know who that so called stranger does know . On more than one occasion I've overheard a conversation where I thought a shop or whatever was safe only to hear a family member or a close friend works alongside them . If we are out we are not safe until we come totally to terms with it , then who know really doesn't matter , thank goodness I'm getting to that stage .

[Rayleen]

Teresa, I like your comment and great information , thank You.

Rayleen

[kimdl93]

I suppose in some respects, being out in recognizably myself, even among strangers, as a way of being “out“. But I would agree, that one isn’t really out, Until it’s among the people who have some meaningful relationship with you. That may be a family relationship, work colleagues, or people you’re farmiliar with some lower lesser level.

That being said, being open with the sales clerk, or a cashier still involves a level of self exposure. And being able to be honest with strangers make curiously be a step towards learning to be honest with those closer to you.

[Stacy Darling]

I use the term "Here" only, and what I do in person to person situations translates more as "more clearly explaining who I am"

If I think of it in that way, Outing myself to anyone is outing myself, and if I'm talking to them long enough to out myself to them then they are no longer a stranger! estranged possibly?

Stacy!

[Ally 2112]

I think if it is close family and friends then i consider that outing yourself .If it someone in passing then not so much

[Ressie]

Saying that you outed yourself to the SA is just for a lack of a better way to say it. I guess one could say that they told the SA that they crossdress (which I have done a few times). What other ways are their to tell the story of admitting to a stranger that you crossdress? I don't see anything wrong with using the word "outed" in this situation but it might be considered "click bait" when used in a title.

Truly being outed would be - to someone that knows you as a male that somehow found out that you crossdress. That one person will probably tell 10 more people and so on!

[Micki_Finn]

“Being outed” is an involuntary act and is often done through ignorance and malice. I know what you’re talking about with these posts because they drive me crazy! You didn’t out youself, you came out. If was an accident and you didn’t mean to tell the SA then that would be a proper use. But if you just decide to tell someone, it’s just coming out, not “outing youself”.

It’s an important distinction because in LGBT history, “outing” someone was a borderline act of violence toward someone. There is very important historical context behind “outing” that I don’t think a lot of the people here understand.

[Teresa]

Sherry,
I couldn't stop thinking about this thread and now I've read other replies I've had chance to think it from another angle .

You and others have suggested that coming out to strangers doesn't count but in fact I feel it's as important perhaps even more so . When close family and friends find out they know more or less where you are on the TG road , they would almost certainly know if you were in transition and had SRS . The SA and the person in the street don't know this, to them you could be a TS and had gone through full transition , it's immaterial if they think you pass as a woman, the fact is you are one so they may well treat you as such unless you tell them otherwise .

To give you an example, we go to a shopping village for late night shopping , there are three CDers on various steps along the TG road and one TS who has had SRS . All the people we meet in the shopping village treat us the same way , they don't ask and we don't drop it into our conversations , we are all out to the same degree as far as they are concerned but what as ? Just Cders or a group of TS women .

To be out to people who initially we don't know to me has as much value as being out to family and friends , the great thing is some of the SAs become friends . The other important point is the more we out ourselves the easier it is for the ones following us .

Just one final thought , I've found when I've told people they occasionally come out to me , it's happened a couple of times now , people don't remain total strangers for long !

[Stacy Darling]

“Being outed” is an involuntary act and is often done through ignorance and malice. I know what you’re talking about with these posts because they drive me crazy! You didn’t out youself, you came out. If was an accident and you didn’t mean to tell the SA then that would be a proper use. But if you just decide to tell someone, it’s just coming out, not “outing youself”.

It’s an important distinction because in LGBT history, “outing” someone was a borderline act of violence toward someone. There is very important historical context behind “outing” that I don’t think a lot of the people here understand.

This is so true, and such Malice destroyed people! And I used the term knowing full well the history!:facepalm:

[docrobbysherry]

Thank u, Micki! U said it best.
"Coming out", to people is voluntary. It means u r either seen dressed or tell someone u do it.

"Being outed" is involuntary. It means someone who knows your male persona somehow finds out u dress. If they see u dressed or u tell them, that's coming out, not being outed!:Angry3:

[carhill2mn]

To me "being outed" means when someone learns about or recognizes your femme self without it being your intention for them to know. This is not the same as you deciding to tell others about yourself.

[Sidney]

Back in the day before the internet if you wanted to know the defination of a word you went to Websters Dictionary. It would tell you how to pronounce the word and give you all the meanings of that word if there was more than one meaning. So some words have multiple meanings. I agree with the definitions given for coming out and being outed. I also feel people can have their own definition.

In another thread I wrote I was standing at a urinal in a men's room alone. Under my skinny jeans I was wearing light blue panties and sheer panty hose. When I finished my business thinking I was alone I turn around with my jeans unbuttoned to tuck in my shirt when a young man walks around the corner. He deffinatelly saw my blue panties and panty hose that I was pulling into place. His eyes kind of got big, he did a 180 and almost ran out the men's room. To me that's being outed.

When I told my wife and both my daughters about my crossdressing that is coming out.

Many people use these terms here for many different situations. I haven't found aNY where there is a rule on these terms. Sooooooo let each of use the word or term to explain a situation they are trying to present here. There is enough we as crossdressers have to deal with to worry about you can only use this word for that or this word for that. There is so much anger and misunderstanding out in the world we don't need to bring it into our safe place.

Enough of my two cents worth. Love to all my sisters.

Sidney

[Teresa]

Sherry,
You have confused the term from your own question , using the word "outed" to mean a voluntary decision and being outed as an involunatary one . So which do you mean ? from your answer to Micki I assume and involuntary action which means I wasted my time trying to give an answer to the voluntary meaning !

Read the last line of your own thread , that is the question I replied to .

[kimdl93]

Let me observe this. I've been outed involuntarily and I've come out voluntarily. The involuntary outings were either by accident or (someone else's) intent. Oddly enough, the involuntary outings caused a bit of a stir, but in the end, little changed. My intentional and deliberate coming out had very significant adverse ramifications for my life. So, who is to say.

[Jenny22]

Sephora's has an eaddress of mine and my phone number, but the MUs have never seen me as a guy. Have I outed myself or just come out to them?

[Stephanie47]

For me, being 'outed' means my secret or privacy as a man who wears women's clothing has been unintentionally or intentionally revealed to others. If I was seen by a neighbor from whom I have been keeping this secret and the neighbor recognizes me, I'd say I've been 'outed,' unintentionally by myself. If a person who knows of my cross dressing, intentionally or unintentionally blabs to someone who does not know of my secret, I'd say I've been 'outed.'

If I were to make my cross dressing known to others I'd say I am 'out' to them. To me 'out to' and 'outed' differ in whether I intend to keep a secret.

[Rogina B]

I've been here for ages.

Do u consider it "outing yourself" when the person is a stranger!?:brolleyes:
A while back,I created a thread in the TG section.."It is all fun and games until your last name is involved" about exactly this ! And no,being a secret agent is not the same..

[Jaymees22]

I don't consider it "outing yourself" when it's a stranger. I would hope they would just treat me as a woman they don't know.

[mbmeen12]

“Being outed” is an involuntary act and is often done through ignorance and malice.

My two cents on this topic is; whom/ what holds true value to the person whom is outed. Outed to a stranger really does NOT hold value. Outed to a SO, ouch$ unless SO loves the persona. Outed at work, ouch$ or unless their LGTG friendly.

[Beverley Sims]

Outed is being visible to someone you know personally.

The worst type is a casual friend who may talk to others and skew the details.

The reveal to the general public or casual acquaintances such as shop assistants is not really an outing.

That's just going out. :-)

[kinky_caitlin]

Totally agree, being out to strangers isnt being out as they have no impact on me and i will most likely never see them again.

[BrendaB]

There is very little doubt regarding the degree of discrimination experienced in the “T” community. Yes, it has gotten much better over the last twenty years, but there’s such a long way to go. I’ve gotten used to the giggles of sales girls when I buy makeup or clothing. I usually ask what they find to be so funny. There is never a response.

[sometimes_miss]

if you are out to strangers then you are not out.
Not necessarily true. If you've been seen as a crossdresser and those you saw are likely to again see you in public as a non crossdresser, say, at work, that could potentially cause a problem if they recognize you the second time as well. Especially if there were children present, as they have no tact, and might just yell, 'Mommy, look, there's that funny man we saw wearing a dress yesterday!'.

[Jenny22]

To me, being outed means that someone who knows you finds out you CD. For others who do NOT know you, whether they've seen you dressed and in drab, you are not outed. Now, if you have voluntarily given personal information to another (phone number and eaddress, as I did to Sephora's staff) when you were pretty, that's mighty close to having outed yourself.

[Heather Anne]

To me it means that I have been exposed / found out that I am a crosdresser to either family, friends, co-workers, etc. that did not know. When I am out in the public dressed en femme strangers may realize that I am a guy dressed as a woman and that is okay with me. Why? Chances are I will in all likelyhood not see them again nor will they see me again unless I frequent places regularly such as Jason's Deli in Dunwoody, Ga. I get out twice a week, Wednesday and Saturday. Saturday I have lunch at Jason's Deli, all you can eat salad bar. I have on occassion met individuals that have seen me in the restaurant before. That is not a problem with me. I am far enough away from home that it is highly unlikely that I will come across someone that would recognize me. Besides, I am not all that concerned if someone does. I am retired. The only scenario that I would be concerned is if I were to run into my daughter's inlaws. Hopefully they would not recognize me and I could leave the area quickly.

[Rogina B]

I am far enough away from home that it is highly unlikely that I will come across someone that would recognize me. Besides, I am not all that concerned if someone does. I am retired. The only scenario that I would be concerned is if I were to run into my daughter's inlaws. Hopefully they would not recognize me and I could leave the area quickly.

Perfect example of my term "secret agent" ! So,I ask all "secret agents" if they were to be "held in an interrogation room" could they explain themselves ? I am not being "mean"..I just feel people should be able to honestly explain themselves.

[Sara Jessica]

Yes, but with this caveat.

The more I went out into the wild between the mid-2000's and the present, the more confident I was with the prospect of splainin' myself to others if need be. Then a voluntary job change happened which gave me pause about my security and ability to provide for my family if I were to do something risky like being outed.

Then came the doozy. The place where I get my hair cut is well within my usual no-fly zone. It's like, who else would go to this out-of-the-way salon with only three chairs, one that is never used? So a couple months ago, I found myself in my typical state of mind. Despite fully intending to get the hairs cut and styled in full girl mode, when the rubber hit the pavement, I couldn't be bothered. Therefore, I went in guy mode and found my stylist to be booked. She asked me to come back in a couple hours. I did so and sat in one of the handful of chairs in the waiting area only to be greeted by "hey ______" from the chair next to me. It was a business colleague, someone who I have worked closely with for nearly 15 years. He knows one of my best friends as well.

Needless to say, that put a heavy dose of pause in my attitude about being read. I would like to think that if it ever happened, I'd be well prepared to tell my story but when all is said and done, I'd just assume it didn't happen. Too much at stake.

But imagine the story had I sat next to him in girl mode? That would have made for one heck of a story to tell.

[traciethetg]

I seen your YouTube video and could point you out of the crowd.

[Rogina B]

But imagine the story had I sat next to him in girl mode? That would have made for one heck of a story to tell.
"Guys being guys" and depending upon his mindset,perhaps he wouldn't have looked closely at all ! "Looks like a Duck..Must be a Duck.. Why a TG person tends to make so many guys "uncomfortable" is really the big question...

[Sara Jessica]

Whether he (or any other dude) would be uncomfortable is completely irrelevant to this scenario. It also has nothing to do with whether he would have looked closely at all. Without the anonymity that a wig can offer, I am instantly recognizable. It wouldn't have taken more than a half a glance of my face for him to have in fact seen me for who I was.

And speaking to your specific question Rogina, had my colleague/friend encountered me in girl mode, I can imagine I'd have suggested that we grab a coffee (or preferably a beer or three at that point) to talk. I'd have explained myself with 100% honesty, the secondary motivation being that I would want him to keep it confidential. Again, glad to not be discussing that outcome!!!

Having been a supporter of getting out there into this wonderful world of ours (and don't get me wrong, that has not changed), this thread seems like a great place to share my cautionary tale. I used to be prepared for the possibility of being outed, even bold to a certain extent (yet not reckless) but these days, not so much. The less I choose to go out & about, the snowball of apprehension keeps on growing. It is what it is.

[Nikki A.]

To me being outed means being involuntarily exposed to people that you're not ready to tell that you do what you do. When you decide to open up to a person that you know that is coming out but not being outed since you are in control of the situation.
As far as strangers or SAs, that is not outting yourself because you'll probably never see them again or there is a reason.
Again this is how I see it, agree or not?

[Teresa]

Rogina,
Your reply #36 is a very good point , I like Sara's analogy of no fly zones , I'm grdually working on them. Only today I've had two people tell me they were talking to mutual friends and didn't like to tell them about me , so I just repled , " Why not ? " Another close friend of both my wife and I said she felt caught in the middle now she knows what I look like , so I replied you simply asked to see what I looked like . That was one I certainly didn't expect from my sister in law , it doesn't concern me know if she tells my wife or not , what can she truthfully do about it ? She can't kick me out ! Youv'e often given me a hard time with my pictures but that is where they serve a useful purpose .

Nikki,
As I said in a previous reply , it is a small World , we all assume the SA is a total stranger but it's surprising who her work friends are and the senior mangement . Besides the SAs do enjoy serving us , I'm getting a list now of ones that make the effort to want to serve me again .

I don't believe there is a safe option coming out to a stranger , OUT is OUT end of story , there are two states in a CDers World , " IN or OUT " once out your World has changed !

[Paula DAngelo]

I want to offer a new slant on this. First let me say I am not a cross dresser, I am a transgender woman. In other words "I am a woman", so I am looking at this from a different point of view than most here. Being "mistakenly" outed and coming out to some one are both things that I worry about, but for totally different reasons. I worry about being "mistakenly" outed because that could lead to some unwanted consequences. I'm not worried about some one not liking me or thinking less of me, however regardless of what we want to believe there are still people out there that would like nothing better than to see us wiped out of existence, and I really don't care for violence of any kind (I will grant you that this isn't common but it does still happen). As far as coming out to some one, this is something that I generally won't do unless there is a valid and compelling reason for doing so now. First it's generally is none of their business what my past life was like, so why tell them (unless there is a reason that they need to know). Considering that I'm out and about every day, all day, as Paula you might wonder why this should worry me. It does, I value the people that I consider friends, and would hate to lose one of those special people because of something from my past that I would hope would have no bearing on our friendship. Let me give an example to help clarify what I mean. Recently I was talking with a friend that has only known me as Paula. I met her after I started my transition and it has turned into a valued friendship. We were talking about her up coming divorce and the new interest in her life. As the conversation continued we started talking about my lack of companionship. The more we talked the more she was getting confused, and the more she was trying to convince me to not be so negative and down on myself. I'm not down about my self and am actually proud of who I am, but I could tell that the she didn't understand my reasoning for my feelings that I would probably be alone for the rest of my life. At this point I made the decision that there was a need to come out to her. The next few words that I spoke were some of the hardest words I have had to speak in my life because they could change something I valued forever. Those words were "You do realize that I was born a male, don't you". The response I got back was both unexpected, and heart warming, it was "I had no idea that you weren't a woman". I'm happy to say that our friendship has not suffered and there is no difference in our relationship, which goes to show that true friends are a wonderful thing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while coming out, and being outed involuntarily (and it can be with strangers) are two different things, both of these are something that we might be worried about and that we shouldn't knock anyone for being worried about either, or the way in which they deal with each.

End of rant.

[Rogina B]

Whether he (or any other dude) would be uncomfortable is completely irrelevant to this scenario. It also has nothing to do with whether he would have looked closely at all. Without the anonymity that a wig can offer, I am instantly recognizable. It wouldn't have taken more than a half a glance of my face for him to have in fact seen me for who I was.

The less I choose to go out & about, the snowball of apprehension keeps on growing. It is what it is.
If a person is recognizable as a TG and if a guy isn't interested,then the big ,detailed inspection doesn't happen..From my experience. Perhaps a wig is in your future..

- - - Updated - - -


Rogina once out your World has changed !

BUT,It isn't always in a bad way ! There is a myth perpetuated here that a genuine outing always has negative results. That isn't true !

[Stephanie47]

But imagine the story had I sat next to him in girl mode? That would have made for one heck of a story to tell.

It is always possible to encounter someone you know in a totally unexpected place. My brother and one of our cousins ran into each other in the head dress of the Statue of Liberty. Each was on a class field trip. One from New Jersey, the other from New York.

My son-in-law formerly from Chicago was at a Seattle Mariners game with my family when he spotted his next door neighbor from Chicago sitting several rows in front of us and several seats to the left. She was on a summer pilgrimage to visit as many baseball stadiums as possible on the west coast.

It's always possible to have an encounter with someone you know no matter how careful you plan your adventure.

[docrobbysherry]

Steph, you're leaving out some important points.
Seeing someone from your home town when you're out of town is a one in a 1000+ ocurrance. Unless u live in a tiny town and r visiting another tiny one nearby.

Even someone that u r quite familiar with will not be expecting to see someone they know if they r out of town. So, how then will they recognize a male acquaintance in female gear, a wig, and makeup when they aren't looking for, or expecting to see him?

I have been told a number of times by dressers where they were rite next to familiar friends, some even talked with them, in their home towns and they were not recognized!:eek:

[Teresa]

Sherry,
You've dropped in the " PASSING " rabbit hole again !

I will admit I was in that situation recently and the penny finally dropped after a few moments with the voice !

Rogina,
At the moment I agree 100% , most those neagative fears are unfounded but as the above comment to Sherry, is that not dropping in the Passing rabbit hole ? I should know better by now !