female voice difficult for me

[Courtney_29]

i’m sure there are threads about this already but it’s probably the thing i struggle with the most actually is my femme speaking voice. i sing in a falsetto all the time easily (and i have a higher singing register anyway) but my normal speaking voice is quite deep unfortunately. any tips and tricks to practice?

[Jenny22]

My voice is deep, and my falsetto is phony as a femme voice. So, I speak in my male voice but softly .. just above a whisper. Works for me.

[hellkat13]

I have seen so many varying opinions on this. Some believe you need to use the falsetto voice and work down. Some will tell you not to use the falsetto at all as it can damage your voice. Most of the professional voice coaches teach to the pitch and reverb and tell you to ignore the youtube videos about moving the adams apple up. Me personally I did a mix of both and just practiced a ton and there are numerous apps to measure how male or female you sound. Just remember you may never achieve the "ideal voice" you have in your head so don't stress if you don't sound your version of perfect. Females all have a wide range of high and low and you will find a sound that works it may not just feel that way at first. Drink tons of water too while you practice.

[Tracii G]

I use my regular voice just softer.
Female voices range from high to low so don't worry too much about it.

[Courtney_29]

thanks for the advice, yea it makes sense there are a lot of different voice ranges out there for sure. i’ll just try and get the best compromise i can.

[Nikki A.]

I've given up looking for my female voice. I don't really think about it anymore. My friend did point out though when we were out that I did speak softer than normal and I never even realized it. But then again the male me is a loud mouth LOL.

[Ressie]

When I get together with other crossdressers hardly any of them attempt to speak with a female voice. If you do, you have to remember to keep it up. Then there are a few that naturally have more of a female voice.

My voice is really low so I try to raise the pitch of my voice approximately half an octave if I want to sound more fem. If I forget to keep it up it's not such a big deal.

Falsetto results in a Micky Mouse voice so don't do it! If your strongly desire to have a female voice, just keep working on it. Record yourself speaking and adjust your voice the best you can.

[MonicaPVD]

I have never even tried to alter my voice beyond speaking softer. What's the point? Unless you got started on hormones as a teenager, anyone who talks with you for more than 15 seconds will figure out that you aren't a GG. Embrace who you are and celebrate it.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Courtney :hugs:, We only get one set of Vocal Cords and we do the best that we can with what we have.>Orchid ..O:daydreaming:O..

[Teresa]

Courtney ,
I assume you asking because of going out , most of us in our social group don't worry too much about our voices , it's very hard to keep up a false voice and also you have to be careful it doesn't attract more attention to yourself . I'm out most days now and it really isn't a problem .

[hellkat13]

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish Courtney. If you are looking to not get "clocked" or eventually "pass" completely as a woman (even potentially transitioning) the voice matters a whole lot. Converting to a female voice has nothing to do with hormones either, as genetic males our vocal cords are expanded into a much larger area than a females. You have to narrow that space down to come in to a female sounding register. Almost all men when they talk their voice originates from their chest hence the deeper sounds. Most women their voice originates from either their throat or the area around their mouth which is why the bass doesn't register in female sounds. Some people find success moving their voice to a falsetto and then moving that sound down until they find something comfortable. You are never going to continually talk in a falsetto as it would sound ridiculous but some need to go there as a step to find their female register. There are differing opinions on trying to find it without the falsetto because if you continually push your voice into the falsetto or higher you can permanently damage it. If you feel your voice feeling strained or damaged you need to stop, rest, and try later. As I mentioned before drink lots and lots of water especially if you have never attempted to find it before. Finding a female sound is about 50% of the battle though because men and women do actually talk differently so just because you sound female doesn't mean you won't get "clocked." Personally I found all of the advice out there about moving the adams apple up or holding the adams apple up to find the female sound useless.

It isn't something that you will master in a day or even a week either. It won't be like oh yeah I practiced for 15 minutes and I sound great now. It will literally take tons and I mean tons of practice because you are training your throat muscles and your vocal cords to operate differently. You may even find "the voice" several times and not be able to hold onto it at first but eventually it can be done where you can flip back and forth between them and not have to even think about it.

[Ceera]

I also have a rather deep masculine voice, but I have learned to do a very passible female voice. I initially studied a method posted on YouTube by one trans lady, which is unfortunately no longer available. I also studied two online courses that taught how to feminize a male voice. Those cost about $50 each, for an eight to ten lesson course. It took me about four months to get it to the point where I don’t even have to think about my voice. Now, the wig goes on, and the voice just shifts. I can chatter all day, from sleepily waking up to exhausted after a night of dancing, and once it is in effect, it takes a conscious effort on my part to sound like a male again. From quiet conversations to shouting out encouragement as a softball cheerleader, I still sound believably female. My voice even passes in phone conversations. About the only thing I can’t do yet to my satisfaction is singing like a female. I am working on that.

So, here is some advice. Falsetto is not your friend. No cisgender woman sounds like that. Not naturally, anyway. Realize that some very feminine voices do speak in the lower pitches, and work with that. While it is good to raise the pitch, you only need to go up half an octave or so to get to a believable voice. Much more important is the timbre and resonance of your voice. If you use the full volume of your male voice box to speak, the timbre and resonance created will be too low for a woman.

The courses I studied taught to change resonance and timbre by tightening the throat enough to be using the upper part of the voice box. One way to practice that is to slowly increase pitch until you approach a falsetto, but then try to go lower while keeping your throat about as tight. Another was is to use one of the electronic meters that musicians use to tune their instruments, and practice “singing” words as an “E” note. They can be had for about $30 or less, if you shop around. Speaking more softly helps, especially at first. You can speak louder after you get the basics down. I am on my tablet right now, so I don’t have access to the names of those two courses that I paid for. But a google search for “feminizing male voice” should find them. They are worth paying for, in my opinion.

And what you say and how you phase things is even more important than the actual sound of your voice. Pay attention to cisgender women’s speech patterns, and what phrases they use. A guy will say, “Give me a beer. Bud Light.” A demand, and very decisive. A woman will sound less demanding and more like she is asking for the item. For example, “Let’s see. Could I have a pale lager, please? Oh, I suppose a Bud Light will do, thanks so much!” A male voice tends to monotone, while women vary in pitch throughout the sentance, using pitch as part of their emphasis.

I get it that the majority of the CD community, and even a large chunk of the transgender community, do not try to change their voice. If you are certian you don’t pass anyway, why bother with a fake voice? But if you even come marginally close to passing, a good voice can put the lock on your presentation. If you sound believably female, that is one more point in favor of being accepted as ‘genuine’. Whereas if you open your mouth and instantly remove all doubt, you’ll never pass. Many here say it can’t be done. That no one born male will ever sound female enough to be believed. Or that it is much too hard to do. But you will never know unless you try. And I assure you that it is possible.

How much difference does it make? Well, here is one example. On at least two occasions, while out socially with women who had known me only as a woman for at least six months, but who knew I was trans, the subject of my voice being diferent as a male surfaced. When asked how I sounded when I am not presenting female, I took a deep breath, shifted my voice back down, and spoke. Jaws dropped, and I got more than a few “Oh my God!” reactions. They could hardly believe that deep male voice came out of my mouth! About an octave lower and much more resonance and timbre as a male. So yes, it can be done. And yes, it can make a huge difference in your ability to pass.

[Rayleen]

Courtney

I also use a softer voice tone when talking to girls and it comes naturally with practice while I'm alone.

Rayleen

[Courtney_29]

i guess i have noticed that females have a different way of speaking with what they say. before i worked in a warehouse i worked in a front office position as one of two guys with all ladies. now i miss them it was a nicer environment they were all super nice to me. it seems to be a polarizing opinion about falsetto but i guess ill try both ways and see what works. i’m still figuring out what i doing with this newfound expression. i never expected it to affect me this much, to love it as much as i do. maybe i will search for some classes as online as well. i would just feel better if i sounded even slightly more femme. even just to go out shopping one day would be exhilarating and nerve wracking. thanks everyone for the support. i just know dressing is a game changer for me whatever happens.

[Ressie]

Ceera, your post was very informative and helpful. I just wanted to add one thing.


Another was is to use one of the electronic meters that musicians use to tune their instruments, and practice “singing” words as an “E” note. They can be had for about $30 or less

Guitar tuners (free) can also be downloaded as an app for your phone or tablet. I also have a free tuner on all of my computers. Make sure you get one that will also sound each guitar string so you can hear different pitches.

[Barbara Jo]

One trick is to sort of tighten you throat a bit... like as if you were to gargle..... and speak.
I will raise you voice without giving you an awful falsetto.

Do this a few times and it will become second nature...... seeming quite natural. :)

BTW, not all woman have a high pitched voice like " Bernadette Rostenkowski - Wolowitz" on TBBT. :)

[GracieRose]

i was going to maker the same suggestion as Ressie. There are many apps available that can be used like pitch pipes or guitar tuners.
Also consider a voice recorder app to playback your voice. Your voice sounds different to you than it does to others since it travels to your ear drums through your bone structure in addition to the sound waves in the air. Others only hear the sound waves through the air.
I tighten up my throat and try to resonate in my nasal cavity rather than my throat. When listening to announcers on the radio, I listen to the differences between men and women. If I pay attention to the women's voices, I can distinguish the nasal quality in their voices. It seems to be more so in younger women. I also speak softer. Not 'perfect' but more convincing than my male voice.
I need more work on the enthusiastic intonation and sing-song delivery that women speak with rather than the dull unenthusiastic monotone I perfected over the years to sound like the other guys.
I also need more work on using hand gestures and facial expressions for a more convincing female delivery.

[Courtney_29]

being a guitar player i’ve got a few tuners lying around too and used the app guitartuna for ipad. definitely good advice thank you. as well as the gargle tightening of the throat is worth a try too whatever works lol

[Beverley Sims]

I practice mu voice by trying to sing like Helen Shapiro.

My husky voice does seem lighter with practice.

[mscaseyjane]

Very interesting read. I was out and about Saturday while dressed and only while driving did I realize I had put the time into clothes, shoes hair and makeup, but had not done anything with my voice. I stopped at a crossdresser focused store and struggled mightily with what I should sound like during my interaction with the sales associates. I'm still not sure what steps I may take, if any. However, I do feel a little less self conscious about it after reading this thread.

[Sarah Doepner]

My efforts have been limited to speaking more softly and keeping my voice coming from the back of my throat rather than down lower which seems to deepen the sound. Other tips I usually forget until I'm getting ready for bed include watching the words I use, changing pitch from time to time within a sentence to provide the kinds of emphasis a guy would make with volume and using my hands to move attention away from my voice. Finally the best advise is to not drink much alcohol, because you automatically begin talking louder and lose the control over everything else you've been working on. Or drink, have fun and don't worry about how you sound.

[Julie Martin]

i’m sure there are threads about this already but it’s probably the thing i struggle with the most actually is my femme speaking voice.

Courtney, Ceera gave an excellent and info packed reply, and also good perspective imho. A believable female voice takes a lot of work..and time..but I agree with Ceera that when you finally get one (I have), the truly female sounding voice makes up for many shortcomings in appearance, and can often tip the scales toward "pass" or "blend" in casual encounters. While it's true that full-on passing is almost impossible for most of us, a brief interaction at a coffee shop, asking directions on the street, etc..you might pull off the illusion of being female if you nail the voice. I see no harm in trying if you are motivated to do it..I personally enjoy the challenge! It either works or it doesn't.

Here is my favorite of the zillion how-to videos out there..to each their own..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ro2R3esHA

[Pat]

Honestly I worry that some of the advice here could be harmful to your voice if you could stand doing it long enough for that to happen. You should speak with a relaxed throat, all the sound-shaping should be done in your head/mouth and you don't have to raise your pitch that much -- think of Bea Arthur who had a very low voice but would never be mistaken for a man. The techniques you have to learn are hard to get from a tape or a verbal description. You really need to see a speech pathologist to learn a voice that won't cause long term harm. I know that's probably more than folks who are only looking for an occasional one-hour outing want to get into, so all I can really advise is that if you start feeling discomfort in your vocal cords, stop. ;)

[Teresa]

In a previous thread when I was about to go out far more , I had concerns over the clothes , my wig , my makeup , that was before any thoughts about my voice . Pat suggested I was over thinking it all too much , just go out there and do it , we all make mistakes . I have to say she was right , it turned out to be far easier , most of the fears were in my head like most of us . Unless you do have a deep base voice it really isn't a problem , as I found only today by being asked to join a sewing group . Who would have thought in such a short time I would be hearing things like this . I can't answer truthfully if I pass but all I know is I'm convincing enough for people to be comfortable with me , believe me I'm not holding back with not making conversation , what you have to say and the way you say it is far more important than what you sound like . Only today I was in a shop and heard a voice behind me that sounded like a guy , it was actually a small middle aged woman who possibly smokes too much !

[DaisyLawrence]

what you have to say and the way you say it is far more important than what you sound like

Ah now then Teresa, I do most definitely agree with you there. Oh yes indeedy. :)

[sometimes_miss]

Can't help you until I can send a PM. I have some files I can send you, but I cannot post them anywhere. They are tutorials that were on youtube ten years ago, but have since been taken down. AFAIK, this is the only way to find them. I have tried numerous times over the years to locate the owner, to no avail.
In the meantime, I refer you to all the tutorials on youtube. Try them, and see what works for you.

Here's something, at least: http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/

[DIANEF]

When I worked in retail I had a regular customer who I saw maybe twice a week. She was a lovely lady but she looked, and sounded like Ernest Borgnine. Several other ladies I served had deep voices also. I could never manage a femme voice so I would just use a softer version of my normal voice.

[AllieBellema]

I've practiced a few times trying to do a good female voice, but I could never do it right. Especially when the moment comes when I'm dressed up and in a public setting. So I just try to do a softer version of my voice to be as passable as possible. I have a deep man voice when I'm in my normal mode.

[t-girlxsophie]

I basically talk a little softer,but at same time try to keep it at the same volume.I dont try anything more,fearing that I'll sound like one of Monty Python's female characture's.And with best will in the world im not going to fool anyone
And I'm not being rude,but a lot of women in my neck of the woods have deep,raspy voices

Sophie

[Jeri Ann]

Honestly I worry that some of the advice here could be harmful to your voice if you could stand doing it long enough for that to happen. You should speak with a relaxed throat, all the sound-shaping should be done in your head/mouth and you don't have to raise your pitch that much -- think of Bea Arthur who had a very low voice but would never be mistaken for a man. The techniques you have to learn are hard to get from a tape or a verbal description. You really need to see a speech pathologist to learn a voice that won't cause long term harm. I know that's probably more than folks who are only looking for an occasional one-hour outing want to get into, so all I can really advise is that if you start feeling discomfort in your vocal cords, stop. ;)

This is the best advice I have ever seen on this forum dealing with developing a female voice.

A female voice thread is one of those cyclic threads that pop up from time to time. I always read them with great interest because the voice has always been the most difficult thing for me. Face to face I present enough visual clues that my voice is diminished in importance. But, on the phone I am consistently misgendered. Also, I am being asked to speak publically more and more. I have two speaking engagements scheduled in the Fall.

So, after dealing with almost all of the other details of transition I did an internet search for a voice coach near me. In my search I discovered a link to a program at the University of Houston Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders. The have a voice training program for transgender individuals.

I made an appointment at their speech clinic for evaluation. I spent 2 1/2 hours with three graduate students and the director of the program. Next, I had to get medical clearance from an EMT to make sure that my vocal chords were healthy. I was told at the clinic that this was important because "we are going to stress your chords."

A few weeks later I got a call from a clinician and we set up sessions for the summer semester. Here are the sequential steps in the training so far:

Week 1: Detailed instruction on diet, hydration, lifestyle, and habits.

Week 2: Instruction, demonstration and coaching on physical exercises to condition and tone muscles in the face, lips, neck and jaw.

Week 3: Determining the best female pitch for me. Instruction on vocal exercises to practice.

Week 4: Pronouncing sounds and words.

Week 5: Reading printed text, two pages at a time.

The clinic is closed for the remainder of the summer so my sessions will resume in September. In the future we will work toward sustainability, extemporaneous speaking, conversational speaking, body position, gestures and facial expression.

In the meantime, I have lots to practice. Changing the voice is not easy for most people and takes much practice, sort of like training for a marathon. The director of the program supervises every step of the process. She assures me that they can help me develop a true, sustainable female voice. It will take time.

The tricks and techniques and the "what I do's" that reappear from time to time on the forum never change. They also are not effective in most cases. I know of members here who think that they have it down but they only sound like a guy trying to sound like a girl. It really doesn't matter, you are probably not going to fool anyone anyway unless you have transitioned completely and corrected as many male markers as possible.

Granted, some people are very talented and can use their voice very creatively. Melanie Phillips is one of those people. She still markets her version of "How to Develop a Female Voice", I think. However, her method will probably not work well unless you have a similar skill set as hers. Incidentally, the transwomen that I know who have transitioned all tried voice coaches but gave up and use their normal voice.

Again, Pat is wise to advise that trying to change your voice for an extended without professional help could result in damage to your vocal chords.

[Ressie]

Great post Jeri Ann.


but they only sound like a guy trying to sound like a girl.

This makes me think of attempting to walk like a woman. Both are difficult to achieve convincingly. So maybe it's better to reduce manliness in the voice and walk rather than trying to mimic females?

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Ressie,

Great point. Yes walking is an issue also. Many cross dressers give it away with their posture and movements. I don't want to morf this thread into a walking thread by discussing it though.

[Rogina B]

It really doesn't matter, you are probably not going to fool anyone anyway unless you have transitioned completely and corrected as many male markers as possible.
Exactly ! And being confident in your right to exist ends any thoughts that you are wishing to fool anyone.

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Regina,

You are so right. I had a trans friend over for dinner Saturday night. Jackie is not a member of this forum but she has transitioned, even on the job. She is a 27 year veteran on the Houston Police force. She was telling me about an embarrassing response she got while out in public recently. I asked her how she knew what other people were doing. She smiled and said, " I know, I need to stop looking for responses and I won't see any. They don't matter anyway."

[Roxanne Lanyon]

I just want it to sound just a little bit feminine. I am not trying to disguise it. How can I make it sound a little more attractive, and sweet?
Roxanne

[StephanieH]

To the original post, yes, I think a lot of us have this as a major issue. Thankfully my voice isn't too deep, kinda' middle of the road. I just bring it up just a touch and talk a little softer than normal. Thanks to countless visits to Walmart, I've heard plenty of real women who sound more like a man than I do, so, makes me feel better!

[grace7777]

In my experience it takes a lot of practice. With practice most of us I think can achieve a passable female voice. I have an app that I use to test the pitch of my voice, which has helped me develop a female voice. I also ordered the Kathe Perez which helped some. Around seven years ago I received a great suggestion which was to talk from the upper part of the throat instead of from the chest area.

Over 7 years ago I would have never dreamed of achieving what I have achieved today. Now at work when I answer the phone I am consistently getting called ma'am. These are people who do not know me and have to totally really on my voice to decide how to gender me.

Grace

[Maddie_h22]

The pitch has come more naturally for me. But one thing that I just cannot seem to get is a natural breathiness with my voice. It's a process I guess.

[Pat]

A topical article on transgender people and voice training: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/07/30/helping-transgender-women-find-their-voice/?utm_term=.d839d5b3de78

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Pat,

The program described in the article is exactly like the one I am in at the University of Houston.