are crossdressers closet homosexuals

[Snookums]

I was once told by a Veterans Hospital therapist I was a closet homosexual because I love to crossdress,I asked her if her wearing pants made her a closet lesbian,what she wrote in my records was extremely damaging.Now the owner of the jeep shop,the best in town,is spreading rumors I'm a "queer",those are his exact words,how do you deal with that level of stupidity.I would like some serious input on this subject.

[TracyDeluxe]

Yes, they are.

[Deborah]

Speak for yourself. Most people here are hetero married men.
The only way i'd be with a man is if i did have a female body. Since i think of myself as TS and i'm with women i guess that makes me a lesbian lol. Who knows.

[TracyDeluxe]

Most people here are hetero married men.
The only way i'd be with a man is if i did have a female body.

So then your mind would change, just because you had you unit lopped off? Puhleeze!

[krista65]

First of all..a therapist should have never told anyone your desire to crossdress..and how in the world did it get to your community?..I am a veteran too..there is no way that could happen

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

There are certainly crossdressers for whom being crossdressed enables them to acknowledge (and perhaps indulge) their attraction to other men. In these cases, it's more that they're repressed bisexuals than repressed homosexual.

Think about. Gay men generally prefer masculine men, so putting on a dress generally isn't a good way to attract them.

But on the whole there's plenty of research that shows that the vast majority of crossdressers are hetrosexual-ish. The 1999 Yvonne's Place survey (http://www.yvonnesplace.net/survey/survey99/sexuality.htm) of 1,200 crossdressers found that people self-reported as:

Heterosexual 48.4%
Heterosexual but bi-curious 23.9%
Bisexual but prefer women 10.1%
Heterosexual with homosexual experiences 7.2%
Bisexual 6.6%
Bisexual but prefer men 1.6%
Homosexual 1.5%
Homosexual with heterosexual experiences 0.7%

Which probably isn't that out of line with the Kinsey distribution -- and crossdressers are probably a bit more honest about their bisexual attraction that the general population. Albeit, CD may have a higher likelihood of being "penetration curious" or being interested in being the "passive" partner in bed.

The assumption that crossdressers are gay is really a reflection of society's syllogism that: "unmanly" = "feminine" = "gay." So that a man who wants to be feminine must also be gay. Which sort of overlooks the fact that a number of gays are hyper-masculine.

As far as how to deal with the rumors, the best thing is to hold your head high and don't let it bother you. It's hard to blackmail someone who doesn't care about the "dirt" you've got on them.

[Deborah]

So then your mind would change, just because you had you unit lopped off? Puhleeze!

The only way i'd have a real female body is if i were born a female correct?
I don't plan on having SRS because i still wouldn't be a GG so in my opinion it isn't worth doing.
So what you are saying is null. Thanks

[Sherlyn]

Ok!!!! settle down here...don't start pushing buttons.... stay civil !!!

[Fallen Angel]

Crossdressers (cd's) Are largely miss understood group.Many believe the popular conception that crossdressing is a haven for gay men and that the act is perverse.Crossdressers are men mostly hetrosexual.They are more sensetive on average.Crossdressing is merley an expression of ones feminin side.It relives tentions and pressures of everyday male life.Crossdressing in its self is not an illness.And if you doctor has givin out any info on you other than to law inforcement and thats if its court ordered thats against the privicy act and the same goes for your employer.He can be in trouble just for making statements about you so are you sure that theres not more to this post than all of what you have said

[Gemma Rhodes]

Not for me no.

I love everything about women, I love their clothes, I love their perfume, I love their make up etc etc, I have only had desires to be with a woman and whether I'm dressed or not does not change the fact.

Gemma xx

[Bev06 GG]

That is such aload of bunkum. Cross dressers are a mixed bunch just like the rest of us. I can tell you this tho, there is no way my partner is homosexual, believe me he is 100% hetro.
These sort of assumptions are born out of ignorance and misunderstanding, and usually by people who should know better. One of my best friends is Gay and he wouldn't touch a crossdresser with a barge pole and neither does he like dreessing up as a woman.
Take care
BEVxxxx

[Helen MC]

This is one of the weapons used to bash CDs and TVs by red-necks and macho bigots. They are homophobes anyway and to them we do not comply with their stereotype. 30 years ago I when I was accidentally discovered in a hostile workplace wearing panties under my trousers I was branded a "poof" and a "queer" although I have always been heterosexual and have never been attracted in any way to having sexual activities with another man.

Such bigots also think that they can "cure" Cross-dressers as they also believe they can do so with Homosexuals and Lesbians, either by force, brainwashing with or without medication, electric shocks or other aversion treatments, to make us conform with their narrow minded pattern of what a "real man" ought to be.

[Joy Carter]

The sight of a undressed man really turns me off. I must be a lesbian because my sexual desires are for women but have always felt and thought of myself as a female. I'm sure if I was a GG I would be attacted to men at least I hope I would I wouldn't want to be disapionted as a female to.

[Cathy Anderson]

I was once told by a Veterans Hospital therapist I was a closet homosexual because I love to crossdress
I hope she didn't really believe that.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "a homosexual." However, there are homoerotic instincts, impulses and behaviors.

I believe everybody (CD and non-CD) has both hetero- and homoerotic instincts/impulses.
If a person can handle it psychologicaly, it might be better to allow some homoerotic instincts/impulses into consciousness--but not necessarily to act on them. But admitting them into consciousness, one has greater control over them.

Further, once the wall of repression (which has negative side effects--likes homophobia) is broken down, there is no need to continue to experience the homoerotic impulses.

I guess what prompts me to reply is the observation that many CDs seem to have a surprising reluctance to admit that they have any degree of homoerotic wishes. Probably this is especially a problem for the married CD. And my intuitive sense is that this potential "denial" may in some way contribute to CDing.

Cathy

[Alison Anderson]

I know I`m not gay because of my dreams.
I have hetro dreams and wake up happy and at attention!
I do remember a gay dream and even in the dream I was not happy and woke up feeling rather discussted. I believe my subconcious confirmed my sexuality.

In my closet bound dressing, I partly feel I am compensating for the lack of a soul mate, becoming the partner I wish I had.
In drab, I am a "guys" guy, (not that I go poof bashing or anything)
As Alison, I have fantasised about being with a guy, from dinner to dancing or a habour cruise, even some forms of sex. But fantasy is just that, and where it will stay.
Perhaps it is part of some kind of split personality. Ok, so a therapist might need stress leave after talking to me:D But I am convinced that the majority of CD`s/ TV`s are healthy hetrosexuals. There are many more of us than the world would ever admit and it`s been going on for centuries!

[kwebb]

If you have a fantasy of being with a man sexually while dressed. But in the fantasy you always "feel" yourself to be this heterosexual woman (whit all the feminine parts), and he a hetero- man (with all the male parts), what does that say?

And you never fantasize about being with a man sexually as man-on-man sex.

How would you label something like that? Is the person gay. Or is it some kind of a weird twist on there own heterosexuality, or the femme side's hetero nature?
If in your mind, you are hetero woman while dressed, and the fantasy is about being with a hetero man, does that make you gay or bi? Is it really homo erotic, beacuse in your MIND, you are the female, and the object of the fantasy is MALE. That still sounds hetero, even though the physical reality is you are anatomicallly male.

Am I making any sense?

[Nikki Dee]

That is such aload of bunkum. Cross dressers are a mixed bunch just like the rest of us. I can tell you this tho, there is no way my partner is homosexual, believe me he is 100% hetro.
These sort of assumptions are born out of ignorance and misunderstanding, and usually by people who should know better. One of my best friends is Gay and he wouldn't touch a crossdresser with a barge pole and neither does he like dreessing up as a woman.
Take care
BEVxxxx
Right on Bev.!!...we have the same mix as the "civilian" population surely.?
Love Nikki. xx

[Alison Anderson]

Making perfect sense, but the answers are still illusive.

If two CD`s are attracted to each other, kiss and embrace, are they phsycological lesbians? Or physiological homosexuals?:D

[Teresa Amina]

Just another lesbian in a mans body here! Seriously Snookums, while you can't undo it talking to the veterans hospital therapist a little too frankly was a mistake. Those types are trained to think we're "sick" and can be "cured"- not exactly a sympathetic ear! But we reach out sometimes in desperation to whoever's there. As far as people now spreading rumors about your orientation I'm afraid there is little to do except tough it out. People are idiots. Can you manage it? When I was a teen Teresa would shine a little too brightly sometimes and I had too learn to hide her better- now I'm learning to let her out. Life is strange, but the pain of the present will fade and things get better!:)

[Cathy Anderson]

talking to the veterans hospital therapist a little too frankly was a mistake. Those types are trained to think we're "sick" and can be "cured"...
Hi Teresa,

I'd like to comment on this. Please don't take this as a personal comment because:

1. I'm not so much replying to you, as to several people who have made similar remarks recently, and

2. This (stereotyping) is an issue for me just like it is for everyone.

That said, I have ask whether when we stereotype all psychologists or all people like this, are we not doing the same thing that we accuse of others doing towards CDs?

Sadly, there are a lot of mediocre and poor psychologists. It might even be the rule and not the exception. As with CDs, the bad apples are most obvious. But there are some good ones out there.

Also, the psychologist might have not expressed herself accurately, or Snookums might have even misunderstood what she said.

To phrase this positively, the best way we can promote the non-stereotyping of CDs is not to stereotype others ourselves ;)

Believe me, I'm not trying to criticise anyone here. But I mention it because I believe the more we are aware of how we do this ourselves, the happier we will be.

Cheers,

Cathy

[Ms. Donna]

I don't believe there is such a thing as "a homosexual." However, there are homoerotic instincts, impulses and behaviors.

-----8<----------8<----------8<----------8<-----

I guess what prompts me to reply is the observation that many CDs seem to have a surprising reluctance to admit that they have any degree of homoerotic wishes. Probably this is especially a problem for the married CD. And my intuitive sense is that this potential "denial" may in some way contribute to CDing.

An interesting POV!

I have come view orientation as being split much as sex & gender are. There is Sexual orientation (attraction) and there is Gender orientation (attraction).

For me, I'm attracted to women - i.e. individuals who make a stereotypically feminine gender presentation. Upon seeing seeing someone, I do not think about the underlying sex of the person. I suspect that most of what people refer to as sexual orientation is in fact gender orientation. Unless you can see the person naked, you have no way to be sure what their sex is, regardless of how they are presenting.

Were I to find myself 'involved' with a T-girl, my feeling now is that plumbing is negotiable. :)

Does that make me a closet homosexual?

I have a better question: why should make a difference?

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[carol ann]

I have always believed that most men who crossdress do so because they are attracted to everything feminine and in some way want reject the masculine phsycy. I am certainly only drawn in sexual terms towards women

[Jodie_Lynn]

Making perfect sense, but the answers are still illusive.

If two CD`s are attracted to each other, kiss and embrace, are they phsycological lesbians? Or physiological homosexuals?:D


How about we just call them people who kissed?

I really, really, really, really hate the labels that we slap on people. That one is black. this one is white. That one is christian. This one is atheist. This one is gay. That one is bent. The other one is straight.

Bah, stupid friggin labels.

When I was in HS, I thought I was gay for a while because I didn't fit the mold for a guy. Then I thought maybe I was Bi, since i could get enjoyment from either or. Then, according to society, I was a crossdresser/transvestite/transgender/pervert/homo, whatever.

But, when I got older and was able to start to think for myself, I realized that I am just a person, a human being, homo sapiens sapiens that enjoys wearing frillies sometimes, who is married to a beautiful woman. And as such, if I give or recieve pleasure to a man or a woman, it is because it was a pleasurable experience for both. And I would still be just h. sapiens.


Labels belong on boxes, not on people.

[Teresa Amina]

[QUOTE= Please don't take this as a personal comment [/QUOTE]

Don't worry Cathy- as I've written elsewhere I love to see your inputs!
Probably right about my stereotyping the Psychology types, but I think I was mostly trying to give Snookums a bit more sympathy than she apparently received from her therapist. Keep bringing your insights to us here, your mind is topnotch and very insightful.:)

[Tina Dixon]

Just replying here to the header: NO!

[Julie Avery]

I believe everybody (CD and non-CD) has both hetero- and homoerotic instincts/impulses.

A very thoughtful and thought-provoking post, as usual Cathy. I'd back off from it about two steps by saying that everyone's born with the potential for both. And I can't resist noting that this has made me think of a great CD screen name: "Polly Morphus" :)

[TGMarla]

Yes, they are.
Speak for yourself. That's a bunch of BS.

I'm not.

End of argument.

[livy_m_b]

I hope she didn't really believe that.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "a homosexual." However, there are homoerotic instincts, impulses and behaviors.

I believe everybody (CD and non-CD) has both hetero- and homoerotic instincts/impulses.

Cathy

I think I agree in principle if we can restate it to be that everyone has the potential to develop both hetero- and homo-erotic responses. In a society that permits a wide range of sexual expression, I imagine that everyone would at some time or another experienced most of the types available to their physical embodiment.

If you consider other cultures in which men only or women only groups have occurred, you often also see that homosexuality can be widespread as in some Greek city militaries, or as in ottoman harems, etc. I really think we're initially capable of all forms of sexual response even if we are shaped in part by genetics and in part by environment and in part by personal experience to choose some limited subset of the possibilities as most congenial to our own personality. We are more like bonobos than chimps.

[Sarahgurl371]

I was once told by a Veterans Hospital therapist I was a closet homosexual because I love to crossdress,I asked her if her wearing pants made her a closet lesbian,what she wrote in my records was extremely damaging.Now the owner of the jeep shop,the best in town,is spreading rumors I'm a "queer",those are his exact words,how do you deal with that level of stupidity.I would like some serious input on this subject.

Snookums,
Do you feel that you are a closet homosexual? If you do or don't, so what. Its your sexuality. I understand the military culture, and the whole idiotic don't ask - don't tell thing. So I can understand how this could effect your military career. The issue I think isn't wether or not you are, its why this therapist would divilge confidential information to anyone other than required by law. Knowing that GI means "government issue", does the government have the right to be informed about your most basic emotional/psychological make up?

For the rumor mill, I have often said it is the hardest working thing at any place of employment. People love to talk, love to divert unwanted attention from thier own percieved shortcommings and differences. While I feel your pain, and can empathise with your situation, there is no advice I can give here. There may be some legal options, but there again, how do you feel about standing up in court and divulging all?

Mean people suck!:mad:

[Sarahgurl371]

Why are we picking at each other here?????

We are sit here and complain about being labled by society as anything less than something that is acceptable to "them".

Then a thread about sexuality comes along and everybody wants to start making generalizations. Everyone here has thier own sexuality, gender identity.

A previous therapist said to me that CDs are in love with thier own heterosexuality. Meaning they love both the male and female aspects of themselves. Seems to make some sense to me. But I conceed that not everybody is like me.

So if I like women so much that I want to be one. And I want to experience life as one. But I am physically a man. Am I homosexual for wanting to experience physical intimacy as a woman?

Is sexuality a physical or mental characteristic? How many times do we redefine the question?

I say who gives a Flying F#$%!

[KathrynW]

Speak for yourself. That's a bunch of BS.

I'm not. End of argument.
Marla - I agree 110%. Speak for yourself. Step away from the blanket statements.
I don't care if you are...but I'm soooooo NOT homo, myself. ;)

[Kimberley]

Good lord!!! What an invasion of your privacy by this so-called therapist. I hope you reported him/her.

This statement by the therapist only adds to prove the general ignorance of gender issues at large, even among professionals. This is why gender therapists who are specialists exist. Proof of this ignorance is first in the claim of homosexuality and second in trying to equate gender and sexual preference in the same sentence.

Had it been me, the "therapist" would have been told to go **** himself, that he has no idea what he is talking about and finally to go get educated before making such claims. In other words, "Make sure your brain is loaded before shooting your mouth off."

Now that I have vented...... chocolate.

Kimberley.

[TracyDeluxe]

Yes, they are.

THAT statement, my friends, was made just for the purpose of eliciting some of the responses I've seen here, and exposing some of the apparent homophobia that exists in the crossdressing community! "Oh yes, I just adore wearing women's clothing and makeup, I want to emulate women in every way, but I have nothing in common with one of them, you know, those queers!"

I know that CD'ers come in all sexual persuasions, and that, as has been said, in the approximate proportions of the general population. But it truly saddens me that there isn't more real "sisterhood", if you want to call it that. Tri-Ess is a good example, if I read them right. You are welcome to join us, if you are a man that likes to wear women's clothing, but only if you are heterosexual. No queers, thank you very much! Of course the gay community is no better, "queens" are definately on the low end of the totem pole.

In the eyes of the general, normal (sic) population, we are all queers, and we will either stand together, or fall together.

[simonestrt]

Hi all i do not have a thing for men but if a cd,tv,ts came on to me i would have to think twice. but a male in male cloths is a turn off

[Julie Avery]

<snip> homophobia...exists in the crossdressing community!....In the eyes of the general, normal (sic) population, we are all queers, and we will either stand together, or fall together.

Tracy, I strongly agree.

[Jillian_Faith]

I was once told by a Veterans Hospital therapist I was a closet homosexual because I love to crossdress

The word because implicates a singular relationship and is the key fallacy in this perception. This is a gross simplification of an obviously much more complicated equation. To say someone is blind because the have no eyes could probably be easily defended but to say someone is disposed to a obviously complex action because of one factor is preposterous. We are complex and dynamic beings. Depending on who you are and your total psychic makeup this may be an inclusive factor, or may not, but not a singular determinant factor.

It’s kinda like getting on a plane. Even though you have many different people heading toward many different destinations everybody on any one plane is heading toward the same destination but there probably are a wide variety of reasons why they are heading there. We are as unique and diverse.

I like Jodie’s comment:


Labels belong on boxes, not on people.

However even with what we think are the appropriate labels the boxes don’t always end up at the place the we or others expected them. Don't get hung up on the labels. Learn to enjoy the journey.

[Ipexx2]

I have to say 98% no. If I went from cd to 100% all female. I think I still would like a another female in bed with me.

[SexxxyBrianna]

The assumption that crossdressers are gay is really a reflection of society's syllogism that: "unmanly" = "feminine" = "gay." So that a man who wants to be feminine must also be gay. Which sort of overlooks the fact that a number of gays are hyper-masculine.

You hit the nail right on the head. I completely agree.

[KathrynW]

THAT statement, my friends, was made just for the purpose of eliciting some of the responses I've seen here, and exposing some of the apparent homophobia that exists in the crossdressing community! "Oh yes, I just adore wearing women's clothing and makeup, I want to emulate women in every way, but I have nothing in common with one of them, you know, those queers!"
IMHO, this proves nothing...
The vast majority of crossdressers are heterosexual. period.
It's simple.... Don't tell people they're something they're not.

[TracyDeluxe]

IMHO, this proves nothing...
The vast majority of crossdressers are heterosexual. period.
It's simple.... Don't tell people they're something they're not.

Why didn't you also quote this?
I know that CD'ers come in all sexual persuasions, and that, as has been said, in the approximate proportions of the general population.

[PAULINE61]

Considering that most of us are on this site because we feel different to the geneder we were born into should also mean that sticking 'labels' onto people is the last thing we should be doing - this place is a refuge for me (society in general would label me a freak/nancy boy /poof or sissy). I contribute succesfully to my society - but I'm in the wrong body. Just get on with it!

[CHRISSY in LI NY]

I Agree With Deb In Fact I Dont Even Think Of Being With Men I Just Like The Pretty Feeling Cding Gives Me My Fem Side Is A Lesbian All The Way

[CHRISSY in LI NY]

Drab Guys Ewww Ptuee I Totally Agree My Preference Is Gg Then Ts Tg Tv Cd W/out Option Of Reg/drabby Guy

[Snookums]

Tammycd,no I'm not ,I have never had any desire to be with a man,I guess that makes me a lesbian,it's disturbing when someone with a PHD in psychology makes a comment in front of 40 other brother veterans.I filed a lawsuit against the therapist,the veterans administration fire her to get out of the law suit,40 brother veterans signed depositions in regards to her comment.

[Snookums]

Kimberly,please have a piece of this Austrian semi sweet chocolate :)

[FROCKYHORROR]

God, i wish people would get this one right,its logical to me,you dress up like a girl cos you want to feel like a girl and experience being a girl for that time, its only logical that at some point you're going to fantazize about all the other things that girls do ie sleep with men (or women or both), that doesn't say you're a latent homesexual or in denial so you crossdress to find self acceptance,come on,every crossdresser that says they haven't "wondered" is lying or kidding themselves. I suspect this is more of an issue to the married cd's and all the "reassuring/appeasing the wife" stuff that has to be done, thats not to cause alarm to the any GG's reading.Lets be clear, when assigning labels like homosexuality or bisexuality to a cross dresser 'specificaly' you have to have a more broader view, and think of it as a more double barrelled term stating firstly what he/she is in reality and second what he/she is in fantasy, so i'd say i'm a heterosexual man in reality but i'm a bi-sexual woman in fantasy, so i could say i'm a heteosexual male/bisexual fantasist. Theres probably a better way of putting this, but the point i'm trying to get at is that as cross dressers we're a different breed from everyone else, we live in a kind of parrallel universe, one in which we're male and the other where we're female, so we need different semantics for describing our sexuality.

[Maria D]

People are what they are. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Are crossdressers closet homosexuals? As a 'group'? You can't ask that. It's too diverse a group. You might as well ask if people who go to bingo are 'closet something'. It's ONE thing in common, done for a number of reasons. I'm sure some bingo people are gay, and I'm sure some aren't.

Does it matter?

Tracy, I'm not sure what the percentage of gay CDs is, but I wouldn't be suprised if it matched the general population percentage. I don't see how that's any different from 'vast majority' though. The vast majority of people are not gay.
I'm not sure that saying 'yes they are' to incite a riot was clever though. I could stand in a Liverpool pub and shout 'all Scousers are poofs' to prove that there are many bigots in the world, but it wouldn't really help the world much. And then I'd be stabbed.


Take care :)

[Julie Avery]

Just replying here to the header: NO!

::::chuckle::::::

Hiya Tina.

I think everyone's had their say and that this thread has outlived its usefulness :)

[Snookums]

Amen to that Julie Avery

[busty]

I was once told by a Veterans Hospital therapist I was a closet homosexual because I love to crossdress,I asked her if her wearing pants made her a closet lesbian,what she wrote in my records was extremely damaging.Now the owner of the jeep shop,the best in town,is spreading rumors I'm a "queer",those are his exact words,how do you deal with that level of stupidity.I would like some serious input on this subject.
i there i am a Vet and like to dress some time dont let it get you down,tell that guy **** you i am not queer, and tell him to **** off,i told my therapist she just said would you like breast,i jokeing said i dont think i like wearing a bra,she just laugh and said you get used of it,the thing is i went and got one i went from a 40DD to A 40 H Busty

[kwebb]

Its certainly the most interesting conversation, and its fascinating to see most of society's reaction to an anatomical (politically correct version) male- in-a-dress as being gay.

Although WE know that is not the truth in SOME cases.

And it fascinates me that there is so many more variations in CDing than the general public will ever believe or know.

But at the end of the day I am with you Maria D. There is just no way to make a generalized statement defining any of us who do it.

Its all over the place and represents every corner of the spectrum. There is just no way to define it like that.

[JMO2]

You know I don't mean to get off topic in any way but you know when I started studying who I was and why I did what I did. Research was so far back that back then they were talking about crossdressing being a "perversion" and that it could be cured by electroshock therapy. A Dr. Stoller or some such name like that as I remember......My point is who cares if you are straight or gay or anything inbetween, if you are happy with who you are, what really makes the difference to anyone, including yourself....be happy.....live and let live.....
(Sorry if I have offended anyone)

[cd_lisaplaything]

Getting back to the original post here:


I was once told by a Veterans Hospital therapist I was a closet homosexual because I love to crossdress,I asked her if her wearing pants made her a closet lesbian,what she wrote in my records was extremely damaging.Now the owner of the jeep shop,the best in town,is spreading rumors I'm a "queer",those are his exact words,how do you deal with that level of stupidity.I would like some serious input on this subject.

That therapist should be stricken off for breach of patient confidentiality. The Jeep dealer should NEVER have found out the therapist's thoughts at all. That so-called therapist is a low-life piece of scum. You should follow it through & ruin her career, seeing as how she's essentially the one who's "outed" you. There are laws in place to prevent this kind of thing. Some people just need to have the book thrown at them full-force.

[Butterfly Bill]

There are becoming more and more times when I have people think I am gay, and those people aren't really against gay people. and it put me into a box that they can deal with, so I just don't try to challenge it. That's the case with my own next door neighbors.

[paulaN]

snookems the law suit is the only thing you could do. I hope she can never pratice again. Is it any wonder I hate shrinks so bad.

[Cathy Anderson]

I have come view orientation as being split much as sex & gender are. There is Sexual orientation (attraction) and there is Gender orientation (attraction).
Donna, a very insightful observation, as usual!

[kwebb]If you have a fantasy of being with a man sexually while dressed. But in the fantasy you always "feel" yourself to be this heterosexual woman (whit all the feminine parts), and he a hetero- man (with all the male parts), what does that say?

And you never fantasize about being with a man sexually as man-on-man sex.

How would you label something like that? Is the person gay.[/quote]
Sounds like my experience. No, I don't think this is gay at all. That's the difference. A gay man is sexually attracted to males. But he's also attracted at the nonsexual level. Most CDs I know (aside from those who explicitly identify with being a gay CD) are not attracted to males at the nonsexual level. This emphasizes the importance of Donna's distinction.

As I see it, fantasizing about or even having sex with a masculine man, while thinking of oneself as a female, is like an expression of ones female tendencies. It's as though the purpose has more to do with being female than an actual attraction to the man. In a sense, I guess, this makes the other man merely a "sex object", but that's a different issue.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

THAT statement, my friends, was made just for the purpose of eliciting some of the responses I've seen here, and exposing some of the apparent homophobia that exists in the crossdressing community!"

Hi Tracy,

It takes time and effort each time a person replies to a post. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't appreciate taking the time to do so, only to find out that the other person was just kidding.

So if your intention is to make us think, I commend that. But I wish you'd do so by sharing your genuine insights directly instead of this more backhanded method! Also, you have to consider whether this approach really gives people insight, or whether it further polarizes. ;)

With affection,

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

I filed a lawsuit against the therapist,the veterans administration fire her to get out of the law suit,
Well if the VA hospital fired here, then I would take that as a rather stong, definitive vindication and that you should let it go.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

That therapist should be stricken off for breach of patient confidentiality. The Jeep dealer should NEVER have found out the therapist's thoughts at all. That so-called therapist is a low-life...
Lisa, I don't think snookums meant that the therapist told the Jeep dealer. I could be wrong, but I got the impression these were two different incidents.

Cathy

[Ms. Donna]

People are what they are. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Are crossdressers closet homosexuals? As a 'group'? You can't ask that. It's too diverse a group. You might as well ask if people who go to bingo are 'closet something'. It's ONE thing in common, done for a number of reasons. I'm sure some bingo people are gay, and I'm sure some aren't.

Nietzsche observed:

Thus there is sought not only some kind of explanation as cause, but a selected and preferred kind of explanation, the kind by means of which the feeling of the strange, new, unexperienced is most speedily and most frequently abolished – the most common explanations

By declaring crossdressers - or any other TG people - as 'gay' the problem that is our very existance is cleaned all nice and neatly like. We need not be given a second thought - or consideration.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[MsJanessa]

Yes, they are.
I have a friend who is a post op transexual and has been for over 30 years. She once told me that what we do is about gender, not sexuality---I know many x-dressers, TGs and Transexuals, mtof who prefer women sexually and don't want to have anything to do with men--I also know many of the same types who prefer men and don't want to have anything to do with women---Me? I like both---I'm a true bi-sexual.

What difference does it make if some jerk says you're "queer"? My personal experience is that the duck that quacks the loudest, is the queerest himself. The next time he asks you if you're "queer", just tell him no, he's out of luck.

[KathrynW]

But I wish you'd do so by sharing your genuine insights directly instead of this more backhanded method!
I completely agree with this. This isn't the salem witch hunt.

[Jenniffer]

I know it took me a long time to be comfortable with the fact that I was different growing up and it was difficult in a man's society because boys ridicule what they do not understand.
When I hear disscussions about gender at work I cant help but laugh inside at the desire that men have about labeling and cataloguing other people.
So you should not put yourself or allow yourself to be put in the position to be ridiculed and put down by the schoolyard bully that now has a degree.
Be sure and confident of what you are and what you fantasize to be and do not let other people label you.
We are all unique and I would not want it any other way.

Love Jenniffer

[Snookums]

Cathy Anderson,the therapist did not tell the jeep dealer I was gay,he determined this to be fact because I went there wearing straight leg jeans and a pair of my favorite Franco Sarto loafers. When I was growing up my father used to beat me severely if he suspected I was wearing moms high heels,and he used to threaten to make me a girl with a tin snipsh,he always threatened to make me a girl if I wanted to dress like one.

[Maria D]

Ms. Donna, yes, that's a very common human mentality. It's the reason the Birmingham 4 went to prison for so many years; it's the reason for a lot of wrong-doing in the world, and when I said 'you can't ask that' what I should have said was 'you shouldn't ask that'.
Nietzsche observed well; I want what gets observed to change. :)

[mskilmer]

Sexuality is a life choice. As a life choice, I gotta say I'm hetero. Do I like to explore "the other side"? Yes! I don't consider myself to be homosexual, but I am definately curious. Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Susan Johnson]

Although I enjoy crossdressing and when I have the opportunity I try to make my self look as realistic as possible, I know I would be unlikely to 'pass' except in poor light at a distance. I consider myself as hetrosexual. This comment may upset some people, but I find seeing two males kissing as a turnoff but if one of them is dressed as a female I can accept that even though I know they are both male. The appearance makes the activity acceptable to me although as I say, if they were both in male garb I would not find it so. This is personal opinion as has already been said, we are all different.

[carend_99]

That is such aload of bunkum. Cross dressers are a mixed bunch just like the rest of us. I can tell you this tho, there is no way my partner is homosexual, believe me he is 100% hetro.
These sort of assumptions are born out of ignorance and misunderstanding, and usually by people who should know better. One of my best friends is Gay and he wouldn't touch a crossdresser with a barge pole and neither does he like dreessing up as a woman.
Take care
BEVxxxx

Well said Bev06. Although my wife thought that I was gay after I told her about Caren, she has come to realize that I am not gay and have no attraction to men. One of the reasons why I dress is because I love the sensuousness of women. If women can wear blue jeans and flannel shirts and no one bats an eye, why can't men wear skirts and silk blouses. There is a huge double standard, that I hope, one day, will evaporate.

[Wenda]

It is surprising and disappointing to hear stories like this. I love to dress, and my gf considers Wenda a somewhat trashy shopping friend, but, I have not attraction to be with another man, and my GF can testify that I am definitely hetero.
A have several friends who are gay, and honestly I just cant understand what all the fuss is about. Tell the world to grow up and get over it!

[Khriss]

...my first reaction to the thread -and some responces,was... TROLLING !! -for ..angry responces ,fight baiting,etc... sad shit realy...while a contemplative question in reguards to real world reactions...
..still the worst "ass"umption ever made by people ...ignorant to realities+?

"Contempt prior to investigation" is a phrase that comes to mind ! ,for those people bent on steriotypes eh ? "K"

[Elon]

Hi I know for sure that I'm not gay. I never thought about being with a man EVER.

[Snookums]

Khriss,I was not looking for angry responses,just honest input to the ignorance I have encountered here,the opinions of all of you are helpful

[Sharon]

Khriss,I was not looking for angry responses,just honest input to the ignorance I have encountered here,the opinions of all of you is helpful

Ignorance? Fine way to ask for helpful opinions.

A little more tolerance of others goes a long way, no matter what you feel about what is posted.

This thread is in danger of being closed, so I suggest everyone use caution in how they express themselves.

[KathrynW]

Ignorance? Fine way to ask for helpful opinions.

A little more tolerance of others goes a long way, no matter what you feel about what is posted.

This thread is in danger of being closed, so I suggest everyone use caution in how they express themselves.
I could be off here...
But I believe snookums was not referring to this forum as "here" but to Utah as being ignorant. As I said, maybe I'm wrong...

[Snookums]

Kathryn you are absolutely correct in your statement,Utah is as ignorant as it gets.I did not start this thread to anger the masses,or open a can of worms,as a man who prefers to wear womens clothes,I was curious as to why I constantly encounter uncontrolled ignorence,in a state that claims it is open to alternative life styles.The Utah legislature recently passed a hate crime bill,it does not mention crossdressers in it,just gays and lesbians.

[KathrynW]

Kathryn you are absolutely correct in your statement,Utah is as ignorant as it gets.
I didn't say that, I simply said that I thought that was what you'd said.
But, if you're referring to Mormons, yes...I can pretty much agree with that. ;)
But, there are other groups equally as ignorant... :straightface:

[allisonrn06]

I read once that only about 10% of men who wear women's clothes are gay -this was in a psychology textbook. I've had a notion for sometime that of those who are gay or bi, there would be a number who went that route simply because they thought that's the only way they'd find acceptance - I know that sometime I think that's the only way I ever will. Then again, I may be up a tree!!:cheeky:

[HaleyPink2000]

Tape your boss saying anything, and you'll own the place! There are laws about people degrading you for your sexual orentation, weather it is true or not.

[sherri]

Me? I like both---I'm a true bi-sexual.

And I luv that about you - an equal opportunity tormentor. :D

[MarinaTwelve200]

Why would one even ASK the question to begin with? Homosexuality is about being sexually attracted to people of the same bio sex--It has NOTHING to do with one's choice in clothing. You DO know what a homosexual actually IS dont you?

Yes, SOME homosexuals CD but so do hetros for various reasons or other.

The sad fact is that many sexually ignorant people do NOT know what homosexually is---This causes trouble for others as they may be wrongly accused of being "Gay" and take flack for it. Ironically, a lot of otherwise really Hetro guys may THINK they are gay out of ignorance===and become violent sad and hyper aggressive individuals in order to "compensate" for or "hide" their "gayness"-----Ive seen this LOTS of times especially in the cases of Bullys and wife beaters They think that to be 'Men" (as opposed to being gay) one must act like a nine year old boy's IDEA of a man.

[mirage2b]

I can only speak for myself, but I am comfortable with my sexuality. I am at a stage in my life that I could sleep with a man or a woman if I found them attractive. I love the empowerment of my feminine side when I am crossdressed but I also love being a man. Do we really need to further label ourselves?

[Lauren Mitchell]

In the 1950's, Crossdressers were considered homosexual and that was written into DSM-III. Even homosexuals were branded as mental cases at that time.

Of course, as most of us will agree on, not all CD's are gay. Most are regular heterosexuals. And then again, is there anything wrong with being gay? I think not.

If some one does not like who you are, then the problem is not with you, but with them. Homophobia is truly a disease, a disease that needs to be eliminated through education. From there, the problem will go away.

Now I am curious, how did that info get released? Who blabbed? That person should be ashamed of themselves for being a big mouth and bigot.

[Danielle]

Some people live judging others when life 's too short,theirs probably therapist who crossdress:lol: it's something we get into our own and we should know what makes us happy inside:)

[JoannaDees]

A common theory .........

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/glb/glbtphobia.html

I see this as pervasive on this forum!!!!!!

[Adrienne Heels]

Well, I am a hetero male, but my fantasy when dressed is to be made love to by a hot guy, so what am I?

[Sharon]

I think people need to understand that fantasy is sometimes very distinct from reality. Just because you may fantasize about being with a man while you are in the throes of feminine euphoria, does not mean that you will actually act upon them, or want to, in your more sober moments.

So -- no -- crossdressers are not closet homosexuals. Not necessarily, anyway.

Me? I know what I am.:)

[GypsyKaren]

I've said this before, sometimes the fantasy is better than the reality. Words for thought. I also think that gender is gender, and sexuality is sexuality, two seperate issues entirely.

Karen

[Marci]

Hi All,

I tend to agree with Cathy Anderson. I like to use the term [coined within
the last several years] "bi-gendered". We CDs/TVs are in a mode of GENDER, not SEXUAL IDENTITY. We M-Fs know we are guys with a very femme side. We like our guyness...we love our grrrlllllness! We don't know why.

Many studies have been done and lotsa conclusions have been drawn.

I've fantacised about being with a fella [whose been approved by his SO to be with me and I'm already involved with her] while I'm enfemme. But, when I'm in drab...don't f--- with me, dude! I'll shoot ya!!! I can't have sex in the humanly accepted, reproductively accepted manner with a guy.

I consider myself a male lesbian in a transgendered sort of way...

Hugs,

Marci :happy:

[DawnRodgers]

The only thing in my closet is dresses, skirts, heels and such. This woiman very much loves and wants to be with a man sexually. Don't think that I would ever marry one but when Dawn is around she is very much a heterosexual woman and her only interest in other women at the time as seeing what they are wearing, how they carry themselves and how they respond to others.
Dawn

[Seven]

For each flower that grows, it many look the same, but it is not. Each person that grows also many look the same, but is not. two arms, two legs, one head, and bleeds. Deep down only each person themselfs trully understands his or her self. It is them upto each and everyone to understand the needs of His or Her friends. It is not for the world to put each person into boxs, the boxs may look all the same, but what is within is very often not the same.

My Love to you all

Sister 7

[GypsyKaren]

For each flower that grows, it many look the same, but it is not. Each person that grows also many look the same, but is not. two arms, two legs, one head, and bleeds. Deep down only each person themselfs trully understands his or her self. It is them upto each and everyone to understand the needs of His or Her friends. It is not for the world to put each person into boxs, the boxs may look all the same, but what is within is very often not the same.

My Love to you all

Sister 7

Truer words were never spoken...very well said.

Karen

[livy_m_b]

Back to the original question: For me at least the answer has always been no. And I've had plenty of opportunities since when I was younger I was apparently fairly attractive to gays. A good friend, and still a good friend, made a pass at me once and after the initial flush of excitement that a man had interest in me, I realized he wasn't interested in me as a woman, but as a man, and that's what I wasn't interested in. As close as I can get to the concept of being homosexual is the occasional thought that if a straight man loved my femininity (and not what's left of the rest), I might after a glass of wine and a romantic relaxed evening want to do something for him - what I'm not sure of - gay guys, don't get all excited - at my age you wouldn't be interested in me - besides, I still turn down all overtures that have any suggestion of gayness in them. (I know some folks want to say I'm still latent homosexual etc. - to them I say "stick it" I'm expressing how I might feel under circumstances perfectly tuned to indicate a response only to my femininity and that's not very likely to come from men, more likely to come from women. Maybe that's part of the reason a lot of ts's self describe as lesbians - at least there it's their femininity that's important.

[Bridget]

THAT statement, my friends, was made just for the purpose of eliciting some of the responses I've seen here, and exposing some of the apparent homophobia that exists in the crossdressing community! "Oh yes, I just adore wearing women's clothing and makeup, I want to emulate women in every way, but I have nothing in common with one of them, you know, those queers!"

I know that CD'ers come in all sexual persuasions, and that, as has been said, in the approximate proportions of the general population. But it truly saddens me that there isn't more real "sisterhood", if you want to call it that. Tri-Ess is a good example, if I read them right. You are welcome to join us, if you are a man that likes to wear women's clothing, but only if you are heterosexual. No queers, thank you very much! Of course the gay community is no better, "queens" are definately on the low end of the totem pole.

In the eyes of the general, normal (sic) population, we are all queers, and we will either stand together, or fall together.

Hmmm, same point I made in the "Which one are you" thread. Homophobia is rampant. We may not march with pitchforks and torches on the Castro, but when someone suggests we might be gay...

Yeap, and about the relations between the gay community and us, there was a thread on Gaia Online a while back saying that T should be surgically removed from GLTB. Because he says that gays are natural, whereas transgender people aren't. "No animal wants to change it's sex!" (Which is completely untrue...shrimp, fish, lizards, amphibians...)

[sharifemme]

I'm with you, Gemma! But, I don't have much use for men whether I'm in male or femme mode! Whether it is for a friend or more than that I prefer a woman. But then, my best friend is my wife and always will be regardless of whether she gets along with Shari or not.

You see, I really don't know if I am a homosexual or not and don't care! If you equate sexuality to sexual preference based on my body type, I am heterosexual. If you base it on my gender feelings, I am a lesbian. What's the dadgum difference? I am who I am regardless of what labels you use to describe me. Am I gay, Maybe. Am I heterosexual, maybe. Am I a queer, yes, a gender queer and proud of it.

If anybody asks about my gender or my sexuality, I tell them that how I am dressed and who I cuddle with are my own business. :)

Sharifemme

Not for me no.

I love everything about women, I love their clothes, I love their perfume, I love their make up etc etc, I have only had desires to be with a woman and whether I'm dressed or not does not change the fact.

Gemma xx

[Zelda Noe]

Marlena: Way to go girl! :iagree:

"The assumption that crossdressers are gay is really a reflection of society's syllogism that: "unmanly" = "feminine" = "gay." So that a man who wants to be feminine must also be gay. Which sort of overlooks the fact that a number of gays are hyper-masculine.

As far as how to deal with the rumors, the best thing is to hold your head high and don't let it bother you. It's hard to blackmail someone who doesn't care about the "dirt" you've got on them"

Couldn't have said it better myself...Dandy

[Gurly]

Despite being a CD, I've NEVER desired a man, in any way. It flat out just doesn't appeal to me. Unfortunately for those that do not understand, there is that perception that we "must be gay" if we like wearing women's clothes but it's all part of the sexual melting pot, isn't it? There are so many variations on sex and gender that it's too much to comprehend sometimes.

[sharifemme]

Kwebb...

Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if we didn't have perceptions about life or have to find generalizations that make sense to us about things which can't be narrowly described? As humans, we tend to make up our minds about things by what we think we have learned, whether it be true or false.

There are all kinds of transgender people just as there are all kinds of golfers, tennis players, lawyers, or sewer workers. There are straight ones, gay ones, male ones, female ones, black ones, white ones, oriental ones, etc.

We can blame some of the problem of the perception of who we are on the media, some on religious bigotry, and so forth, but the biggest reason people are confused about us is that they don't get to react with us very much personally. With the Internet and several of the non-mainstream TV channels, there is more opportunity to learn about us and other cultures so it's much better than it was back in the dark ages when I was a girl. However, if we truly want to be understood as individuals or as a class of people, the only way to move ahead quickly is for as many of us as possible to make contact with others in a positive way.

We often cry out because we don't have the same human rights protection that has been earned by the Blacks, Chinese, Irish, homosexuals, etc. in this country but we often forget that these people have worked long and hard for what they have got. Can we expect any less than to work hard for OUR rights? There is no free ride!

Didn't mean to go off on a rant! Still, I try to take every opportunity I can get to urge peaceful activism for rights of ALL human beings. Think about it - dogs, cats, spotted owls, alligators, and even redwood trees have more rights and respect than transgender people!

OK, I'll shut up now. LOL!

Sharifemme




Its certainly the most interesting conversation, and its fascinating to see most of society's reaction to an anatomical (politically correct version) male- in-a-dress as being gay.

Although WE know that is not the truth in SOME cases.

And it fascinates me that there is so many more variations in CDing than the general public will ever believe or know.

But at the end of the day I am with you Maria D. There is just no way to make a generalized statement defining any of us who do it.

Its all over the place and represents every corner of the spectrum. There is just no way to define it like that.

[sherri]

In my closet bound dressing, I partly feel I am compensating for the lack of a soul mate, becoming the partner I wish I had.

I've often speculated about that very thing myself. I think you're onto something there, at least for me.

[Caitlintgsd]

Crossdresser's being gay? Ok. Then I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body I guess.

[jillinla]

Agree Tracy -
except for the comment that queens are on the low end of the gay hierarchy

at lesast not west Coast

Drag Queens rule the roost out here

[Sharon_Rose]

Perhaps the input we should be providing is: how many M2F crossdressers would rather be with a man. I have to the answer the question by saying - I would rather be with a woman. If that makes me a lesbian, I am.

Ignorance is only overcome by knowledge. Stupidity is a fact of life.

[emma_bb]

what a load of rubbish that therepist just dragged the cd issue back to the 60's my aguement to this is why the hell would i feel i need to wear a dress to have sex with a guy ? ummmmmm if u wanted to have sex with a guy u dont need to wear a frock for god sake! god! stamps feet flicks hair and turns tail screaaaaaaaaaam!

as to what u can do about it firstly how did that information leak to this salesman ? isnt what u speak about to a theripist suposed to be confidential ?
secondly if that is the case and the counsilor is affliated to some kind of organisation complain like hell ,,u might even have a case for defimation of character as for the car sales guy i dont know thats a tough one how do u shut someone up ..not sure unless u know the maffia

[Faye Emmette]

Some are and some aren't.
The " X " above means: politicians, taxidrivers,office clerks, footballers, ...........
My simple and I believe, correct answer.

[Tara Jordan Campbell]

I'm not a shrink but:
How many of you go out on a regular basis dressed?
How many of you just dress at home?

If you only dress at home then I think you are relatively safe because you have not yet acted on being with another man while dressed.

If you go out dressed and have acted on being with another man/tg then your sexual preference may be in question.

We have a huge cd, tg population here and monthly events where we draw over 50 of us girls, some are just out for sex, as evidenced in the "after hotel parties" some just go for the thrill of it and some go because of it is what we are drawn to do.
I have to say that if you are married and straight you would be a huge minority, I know because I am just that.
I have men, cd, tg's hit on me every time out, it is just not what I am interested in.....

Bottom line.......unless you have really acted on your desires I think it would be hard to "classify" your sexual preference.

Sounds like the analyst needs to be analyzed........

[connie rotten]

How does the owner of a Jeep dealership know wha is in your record at the VAMC? We Veterans gotta be screwed up to keep our health care. So damaging is good.
As for being called queer by the jeep guy ;so what. We dress in woman's clothes and act like girls to those that don't it must seem strange. Life is a tuff town girlfriend.

[peterseaking]

I would suggest that better than 50% of cder's are Hetro, nature of the beast!! Me? am Bi so what!!

[LizBeth]

your sexual prefference is your sexual prefference, if you like men ok, women ok or both , it dont matter, I loved to dress because I love to dress and makes me feel fem and nice

[MarinaTwelve200]

Of course I know the reality, I've seen it enough, there are many GAY guys that crossdress(Although most CDers are Hetro), but thinking about it, does homosexual cross dressing make much sense at all?

Why would a guy who is attracted to men and manly things even WANT to dress as a woman? Why would such a guy want to be with a person who looks like a woman ?--its GUYS who turn him on and women, for god's sake, For that matter, guys who look like women, should, by all rights, would be LESS sexually attrative than a healthy Macho stud dude.

Now there IS a theory that gay guys mau dress as women to "Attract" straight men. But it makes MORE sense that gay guys go after OTHER gay guys, and it seems to me that looking like a woman would be "using the wrong bait".

Going after a straight guy while dressed as a woman also seems to be a dead end---I cant beleive gay guys would be actually that STUPID. What (really) straight guy would want to have sex with another guy only DRESSED as a woman?---If he didnt pick up on it right away, he definately would by the time they got naked.----Sure, It MIGHT have happened, if one or both partys were drunk enough, but I cannot imagine how THIS approach would be reliably depended upon by a gay guy to get sex.

The best theory I have heard is that Gay CDers are usually the smaller "femmy' guys who feel they cant compete for lovers who prefer the more macho looking partners. Out of desparation they dress as women and go after the few "border line" "straight men" or guys who ARE turned on by "trannies", but THIS theory also has holes in it for rhe same reason as above---There are NOT that many tranny lovers out there to make the approach worth the effort.---especially when one considers the apparent numbers of gay CDers out there, this is likely not what is going on.

CDing and Gayness really makes little sense, yet we see it often enough to almost be tempted to associate it with a part of being gay.----but all and all, perhaps it is an illusion. CDing may have nothing at all to do with gayness and the same things that evoke CD in gays are the same that drive Hetro guys to CD--eg. fetish or identity conditions rather than sexuality. The gay guys just may be more PUBLIC and open about it than Hetro guys.

As far as my research goes, I have uncovered a LOT about CD TS TG etc, but still the APPARENT affinity of GAYS to CDing is still my biggest mystery, yet to be resolved.

(Note I am not talking about TS here-- where a bio male may have a female brain. The reasons for CDing and being attracted to males in this case are obvious and is a distinctly different condition from homosexuality--where only sexual orentation is involved)

[Amelie]

Gays that CD might be doing it for the same reasons as straight guys, because they feel good when they crossdress. Maybe there is no sexual element involved when gays crossdress, just as I heard many times on this forum that most straights don’t cd for sexual reasons. Just because a gay person cross dresses, doesn’t mean he is doing it for sexual reasons.

As far as why would gays crossdress if they are attracted to men and other men would find it difficult to be with another man who cross dresses because they are only attracted to men and not to women. Well, the same could be said of straight Cds, why would a straight man CD when women are mostly attracted to men and not women. How can a straight cd attract women when they are dressed as women, this is the same thing you are saying about gay CDs Marina but put in the straight man perspective. Woman are mostly attracted to men so when men are dressed as women then this goes against why straight men CD, it makes little sense why straight men CD when women are looking for men and not women.


Also you forget that there are Bi-men out there, that do like men dressed as women. There are also guys out there that consider themselves straight as an arrow, yet find no problems having sex with a T-girl. The lines between gay and straight are not clear as one might think. There are many border line people out there, with feet in both camps.

Just look at this forum, there are many guys who claim that they are 100% straight, but would be willing to have sex with a very passable T-girl, yet these guys call themselves straight. There are also guys on this forum who call themselves lesbians, which to me boggles the mind, but they think they are lesbians. So the lines aren’t always clear when defining sexual orientation, it all depends what the person thinks of themselves, if they think they arte straight or gay or something else.

So, to answer the original question,,,yes,, well maybe,,, well kinda,, maybe not.... some.. OK there are two of us out there that are gay and CD.

[KathlyLC]

I've said this before, sometimes the fantasy is better than the reality. Words for thought. I also think that gender is gender, and sexuality is sexuality, two seperate issues entirely.

Karen
I sure have to agree with you on that statement. I used to get so worked up fantasizing about getting it on with a male while I was en femme it would drive me baddy, but I never had the nerve to persue the thoughts. Then a few years back the wife and I decided to try the swinging scene, which we still do today and enjoy it. I decided that since I stay en femme 24/7 it was not gonna change one way or the other with swinging either, so our personal ads was placed with my being a full time CD, and perhaps given a chance in the right situation would love to try at least oral with another male......My wife was fully agreeable with this as well. Anyhow we met a fine couple that did not have problems with my showing up in a dress, and after a few drinks and talk, where the couples male half said it did not matter to him who or what performed oral on him, agreed if it happened it would be fine......So we soon retired to the playroom, and had a great time. I did manage to get down there, but as hard as I tired and as worked up as I was I just could not bring myself to do. So in my way opf thinking, I maya have strong desires to have sex with a male when dressed, but when it came right down to it, I could not do it. I am a hetero.......not a homo......I still have storng desires to do it, and if I ever will, remains to be seen, only time will tell, but I sure do not think that if I did it would make me a homo either.......

The regular doctor I use at the local VA here knows I am a CD, and he has never asked why or batted an eye.........nor has anyone else in the VA center had any problems with my showing up en femme..........I am still in my mid 50's, but retired military and do utilize the VA for lots of things, and other than one or two visits initially when I reitred and showed up in male attire, its been female attire ever since and its not a problem......I would persue the VA to fire that individual as well as go after that Jeep dealer if Iw as in yur shoes.....as there is certainly no need for it, nor is there any concern of theirs what you wear or what you are.

[Sharon_Rose]

Are homosexuals closet crossdressers? My association with several friends indicates that some are, some aren't. Those that are have told me that it sort of helps them because they can understand the tenderness of two women or of a woman and a man instead of two men. Does it really matter?

[maid phylis]

i agree with krista.as a veteran all our records should be private ,that therapist should be sued.she had no right doing what she did,as our times are sometimes in great peril i quote from the news here in brooklyn ny.this weekend a man was murdered in prospect park in an area with a gay population ,the area where the murder happened was a so called meeting place for gays .now the police are looking for a person who kills gay people.so back to the problem of letting out information to friends and others is very damaging to all of us.be carefull out there girls.love phylisanne:)

[janine]

this issue is about societies perception ,even though the majority of cross
dressers are hetro ,society classes them as gay.I would ague that c/d cross
dress to get in touch with their feminine side ,but are not sexually attracted
to their own gender .Whilst gay,s tend to be more obvious and attracted to
their own gender and tend to be more extrovert than cross dressers.

[ReginaK]

The best theory I have heard is that Gay CDers are usually the smaller "femmy' guys who feel they cant compete for lovers who prefer the more macho looking partners. Out of desparation they dress as women and go after the few "border line" "straight men" or guys who ARE turned on by "trannies", but THIS theory also has holes in it for rhe same reason as above---There are NOT that many tranny lovers out there to make the approach worth the effort.---especially when one considers the apparent numbers of gay CDers out there, this is likely not what is going on.


Actually, there are more tranny chasers out there than you think. And most of them are self-proclaimed straight guys. I know, because I was one. As far as why gay men crossdress, it's probably no different than why straight men cross dress. Are straight crossdressing men trying to attract gay women? Of course not. Neither are gay crossdressing men trying to attract straight men (although it happens). Both cases are merely expressing their gender.

But if you want to go with what the medical community would say, you could say a crossdressing gay man is merely a indecisive, straight non-op transsexual.

[annekathleen]

There are crossdressers who aren't homosexual,
There are homosexuals who aren't crossdressers,

I am a "closet" crossdresser, but there are not any
homosexuals in my closet.
If I want a homosexual, I gotta go out and get me one.

Sometimes I keep both my crossdressing and bi-sexual activites separate, sometimes I mix them up a little bit.
I have had bi-sexual experiences while wearing some female clothing,
but I have never had a bi-sexual experience while dressed 100% as
a women ( including wigs, breastforms, etc )

[Scrunchie-Bunchie]

I'm not gay. I'm a male lesbian :p

I love women and I'd love to be a woman but if I was then I'd probably be a lesbian.

I love the feel and look of the clothes. I'd love desperately to be able to go out dressed but I ralise that'll never happen. I'm lucky to have a supportive wife.

I have never considered homosexual acts as men don't attract me that way.

One of the comments my wife makes is that I'm the most masculine man she's ever met and that she loves the fact that I can switch off the macho junk we have to do outside. Her ex was an all-macho soldier with a penchent for other women.

[seanmc]

I may be a closet dresser, but I'm not a closet homosexual. Sure, being dressed girly will make me fantasize, but that's because I'm feeling feminine. But fantasy stay just that, a fantasy.

[Kate Simmons]

Let me put in my 2 cents (well, maybe 10 cents with inflation) here. When folks ask me if I'm straight, gay or bi, I say:"Yes". When they ask what that means, I say I'm all of the above and none of the above. I'm Ericka, end of story. What I happen to do privately is my business, unless I choose to tell someone. Everyone is an individual and everyone is different. I accept my friends for who they are and they accept me. I don't worry about classing someone in a "group" one way or the other. I enjoy the diversity. It's so much nicer than trying to "classify" someone. Take care, Ericka