Wilhelm Reich's theories and CDing?

[Cathy Anderson]

In another thread, Aynthem remarked:


I'm so glad I'm not the only one [who thinks about how men and women relate to sensuality and their bodies differently]
I've been toying with the idea of writing an article about this. But I can give the short version here.

The psychiatrist, Wilhelm Reich (a one-time colleague of Freud's) developed a theory he called character armoring.

The idea is that every repressed emotion or feeling finds expression as some kind of muscular tension. In short, I think men, some men anyway, carry with them, as part of their concept of maleness and what is expected of them, tensions in certain parts of the body. For example, men are, by nature territorial. So perhaps they tend to keep their arms, shoulders, etc., somewhat "prepared" for aggression or defense. "Ready for action." This might be somewhat normal, but it is still tension, and in the long run it's a problem because: (1) it is fatiguing, and (2) it stifles sensual feelings.

The second point--that muscular tensions suppress sensual feelings--was emphasized by Reich.

This view would suggest that some CDs adopt a temporary female self-image as a way to let go of these chronic male tensions. Which is not too different from saying "CDs dress to relax"--except that it adds more explanation.

This would then suggest that if men can identify the specific tensions which they release by CDing (or the blocked sensual feelings associated with them), they could find some other way to release the tensions and/or feel the feelings (stretching, yoga, dancing, massage) besides CDing.

Cathy

[Aynthem]

Interesting idea, however, men tend to take up territory by taking up as much space as possible. Lounging in chairs, crossing thier legs knee out, arms outstreached.

Women, tend to take up as little space as possible. Knees together, crosslegs with knees together, arms in.

It would seem to me Cathy, by personal observation, that men's bodies already have a compensation for any tension, that also satisfies thier subconsious need to control personal space.

[kwebb]

But again, I feel we must get to the root of it. In the beginning, when I tried on that 1st pair of cheerleader shorts at 4 yrs. old, how was I trying to relax from something?

Was I stressed out at that young age already you think?

I didn't know what stress or sex/gender was. I think. Maybe so. Maybe I was starting to develop cognisance of it.

[Joy Carter]

A lot of mumbojumbo, I went to a shrink and he didn't think that CDing was all that bad. Now we are talking a guy who palyed football in collage and is about six two. He asked me what I got out of it and I told him that I feel that I can escape from all the streeses that work and life in general gives me. He sead that by all means go a head and do it but use descretion so you don't create other problems for myself. Words I had always wished I could here from my SO.

[Teresa Amina]

I think females are just as territorial as males, but the strategy for victory is not physical agression but wit and manipulative behavior.
The idea of satisfying the urge to relax from these muscular tensions through something that would replace CDing makes me think you regard CDing as maladaptation rather than a genuine Expression of the inner self.

Love to read your inputs- you are the deepest thinker in the forum!

[Cathy Anderson]

Women, tend to take up as little space as possible. Knees together, crosslegs with knees together, arms in.
Yep. That's what I've noticed/experienced.


It would seem to me Cathy, by personal observation, that men's bodies already have a compensation for any tension, that also satisfies thier subconsious need to control personal space.
I don't know what you mean here. I find the need to "protect" a larger body space kind of stressful. It takes more energy, at least.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

But again, I feel we must get to the root of it. In the beginning, when I tried on that 1st pair of cheerleader shorts at 4 yrs. old, how was I trying to relax from something
That's a good point. When I CDed around the same age, it wasn't for stress relief.

But I think this fits with the common observation that CDing begins for one reason (excitement, sexual, etc.) but then gradually becomes more about the feelings of relaxation, etc.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

A lot of mumbojumbo, I went to a shrink and he didn't think that CDing was all that bad
This isn't at all saying CDing is bad. More the opposite. It's saying that CDing is a rational strategy to relax. It's just talking a little more about what it is we need to relax from, and why becoming "female" for a while is the preferred strategy for some. And perhaps suggesting there may be alternative ways to gain the same relaxation.

What's so odd about that?

Cathy

[melissacd]

This would then suggest that if men can identify the specific tensions which they release by CDing (or the blocked sensual feelings associated with them), they could find some other way to release the tensions and/or feel the feelings (stretching, yoga, dancing, massage) besides CDing.

Cathy,

I love to read your thoughts because they are new insights for those times when we want to seek answers as to the why. As I grow in my acceptance of cross dressing within myself I stop asking that question. In fact I start to ask myself "why not!". I have spent way too much of my life feeling guilty, repressing and trying to find the answers. I am starting to go with the flow and head down the path of accepting who I really am.

I find that rather than being something that helps me relax muscle tension or something that is part of a guilt ridden loneliness cycle or any other theory we as a community can postulate that in fact I have started to come in touch with a part of myself that was always there and which enjoys expression through feminine things such as clothes. I enjoy my masculine, but the difference now is that I also enjoy my feminine side.

There seems to be a common theme to what you write and I am curious as to whether this is true and I hope that I do not say anything to offend. Much of what you write about relates to the why's of CDing. As part of that you seem to, as shown in the quote above, look for reasons to challenge the notion that we need to cross dress at all. I look at your pictures on your website and I can see that you are a very accomplished cross dresser, I aspire to be as good as you. What I am curious to understand is whether you go down these paths of contemplation because you want to better understand for your own self why you do it so that you can be at peace with yourself or so that you can find a way to stop cross dressing. I only ask this because it seems that you try to find reasons to challenge the notion that someone should need to cross dress at all.

Again, I do not want to say anything to offend, I certainly mean no dis-respect, I am just making an observation. I am glad that you question and contemplate and I have great respect for all of the effort that you have taken to write your many articles, it is important work and I greatly appreciate it as it helps me to grow as well.

Huggs
Melissa

[Cathy Anderson]

The idea of satisfying the urge to relax from these muscular tensions through something that would replace CDing makes me think you regard CDing as maladaptation rather than a genuine Expression of the inner self.
Excellent point, and it reallly makes me think how to resolve what seems like a contradiction.

I guess the resolution would be this:

1. CDing is an expression of genuine attributes of the real self (e.g., to feel sensual, relaxed, graceful, etc.).

2. But it is the attributes that are genuine, not necessarily the dressing itself--at least not when it's carried too far. In other words, a man may be genuinely a sweet person. And he may not know how to express that sweetness as male (maybe he's never seen a role model). But that doesn't mean he really needs to crossdress to express that part of him.

3. I'm suggesting that the aim is relaxation, sensuality, etc., more than the dressing per se.

4. Maladaptation is a relative term. Different strategies have varying degress of adaptivenss, and the degrees vary by person and situation. I woud be reluctant to call one strategy maladaptive and another adaptive. I'd rather think of one as being more adaptive than another.

In any case, we can certainly admit to a possible combination of causal factors for CDing. In fact, unless we do, I don't think we'll get too far.

I don't know if this clarifies things or not.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

Melissa,

I definitely welcome disagreement, and I think you expressed yours with admiriable tact.

First, when I raise a speculative question like this one, that's all it is--specualitive. Basically, I'm just trying to understand what's going on with me. I leave to everyone else to figure out themelves! I have my hands full just trying to understand myself!

But I think the virtue of a forum is that you can air your ideas, expecting that there is always at least one other who feels as you do or who has similar concerns.

I can easily see how one might think I'm "anti-CD" from the content of many of my posts, but that's not so. But in any case I see no way to avoid the need to continue the effort to "know thyself." It's hard, but it's only way.

Also, lately my posts have been more pschological. But in other forums at least I've also posted a lot of replies helping new CDs overcome their fears concerning, say, joining a support group.

The motto on my website is "Moderation in all things". I think that basically expresses my view on things.

Cathy

[melissacd]

Melissa,

I can easily see how one might think I'm "anti-CD" from the content of many of my posts, but that's not so.
Cathy

Cathy,

I am relieved to hear that, you are way too good at cross dressing that is would be sad if you were trying to find a way to stop. :happy:

I absolutely agree with self reflection. While I have gotten to a place where I am not questionning the why's of my cross dressing I am still very reflective in general. That is why I appreciate so much what you say.

Huggs
Melissa

[Aynthem]

[QUOTE=Cathy Anderson]

I don't know what you mean here. I find the need to "protect" a larger body space kind of stressful. It takes more energy, at least.
/QUOTE]

Well, I've noticed in myself that the times I'm taking the most space, say, on a subway are the times when my body is most relaxed. Few people on the car, ability to see is stargangers are coming on board.

It is when I am forced to give up that personal space, due to the croweded car take up as much space as a woman would, that one tenses. There are threats. Personal space has been invaded. Oddly the time when men physically imitateing a woman's natural responses is when they are most tense.

[Cathy Anderson]

It is when I am forced to give up that personal space, due to the croweded car take up as much space as a woman would, that one tenses. There are threats. Personal space has been invaded.
Right. But a woman in the same situation might not be as tense. So if a man is in such situations a lot, such that he eventually incorporates the tense posture into his character, i.e., even when he's alone, he might have a motive to fantasize he's a woman, to let go of the tension.


Oddly the time when men physically imitateing a woman's natural responses is when they are most tense.
Interesting. This is not so for me.

[Megan_Renee]

I think females are just as territorial as males, but the strategy for victory is not physical agression but wit and manipulative behavior.
The idea of satisfying the urge to relax from these muscular tensions through something that would replace CDing makes me think you regard CDing as maladaptation rather than a genuine Expression of the inner self.

Love to read your inputs- you are the deepest thinker in the forum!


If you want to test this theory, just have a GG hit on me while my wife is around... ;-)

Megan

[Marla S]

Hi Cathy, very interesting thoughts.

I'm not familiar with Reich's theory and therefore I don't know in which cases it holds true, and I don't know if I got you right.

If it is sumed up in the following quote:

3. I'm suggesting that the aim is relaxation, sensuality, etc., more than the dressing per se.
I think that underestimates the role of clothes.

Clothes and accesoires are, and ever have been, the outer flag of a community (men, women, police, soldiers, this tribe, that tribe, western, islamic, asian, there are even differences between Americans, Britans and Germans, though we get most every trend from there.;) )

Though a community is not only defined by its flag you can not (easily) substitute or compensate it.

In this view the aim of CDing is to make vissible that you belong to a community and not to relax and or to be sensual.
IMO relaxation and sensuality etc. are the consequences of the reassurement you get by the tactuality of the clothes, your image in the mirror, or a picture.

Nobody can tell me that 5" heels, a tight skirt, taping, tucking, gluing on breast forms, waering corsets, garter belts, bras, wigs in summer etc. is in any way comfortable. But it is in any way the reassurement to belong, somehow, to the community of girls.
If you messed up your makeup up still look to masculine or you are just not in the mood to, the same clothes can cause discomfort, guilt and even tension.

Therfore I don't thing it is possible to substitute this flag by a physical relaxation method or by beeing sweet person.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I'm a bit dubious about Reich's specific theory about releasing muscular tension, but clearly CDing as a way to "indulge" in sensualness is a pretty common behavior. Therapist Lin Fraser described it nicely in a talk (http://www.susans.org/reference/obstg.html) about 15 years ago:


Here we have the Aphrodite archetype, a lot of bliss; it's a highly aroused state. The world is now in colors rather than black and white. Here's where the feeling is, and sensation. In the moment - there is no future and no past, what is called Kairos time. It feels good; it's highly pleasurable. He can focus on the details of the moment.....For some crossdressers, the female archetype is more Persephone, who is childlike and spontaneous and fun, and also in the moment.

Fraser goes on to mention how many of her patients looked like slobs as men -- putting the "drab" in being drab.

FYI, I thought Fraser's talk was quite perspective, but there are two caveats. First, Fraser was/(is?) a strong Jungian and she's upfront that her POV reflects this. Also it should be noted that the talk was from 15 years ago, so it references theories at the time that I'm not sure that Fraser holds today.

[Cathy Anderson]

Hi Marla,

Thank you for your comments. I never previously considered the possibility that a CD might dress because the clothes signify or strengthen a kind of belonging. But I can see how this would be so for some people.

Of course, these various views are not mutually exclusive. Different CDs might have different motives, or each person may have a mixture of motives with varying degrees of strength.


IMO relaxation and sensuality etc. are the consequences of the reassurement you get by the tactuality of the clothes, your image in the mirror, or a picture.
This is an interesting idea. In my case, just imagining myself to be a woman can be relaxing--even while drab.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

Hi Marlena,

I've corresponded with Lin and even have a link to her paper in the Jung section of my website.


Here we have the Aphrodite archetype, a lot of bliss; it's a highly aroused state. The world is now in colors rather than black and white. Here's where the feeling is, and sensation. In the moment - there is no future and no past, what is called Kairos time. It feels good; it's highly pleasurable.
I think she might be glossing over a distinction between anima and the Venus archetype (though perhaps for a man these are not completely distinct in the first place.)

Again, I think it's important not to view, say, Jung's and Reich's theories as mutually exclusive. Since Lin's quote above gets into Jung's psycho-astrology (and I don't mean that term in a pejorative sense), let me suggest this isn't too far from a Tantric yoga view. In that framework, one might suggest men often have a "closed" Venus chakra which needs to be opened to permit optimal circulation of "life energy." That's very similar to Reich's theories.


it should be noted that the talk was from 15 years ago, so it references theories at the time that I'm not sure that Fraser holds today.
Well, given that Jung's theories apparently held for the 50-odd years between when he wrote them and when Lin gave her talk, I'd imagine they've held up for at least another 15 years :)

Or, said another way, men like Schwarzeneggar, Stallone, Willis, Eastwood are still strong male "cultural archetypes." And we have Bush and Cheney in the White House (and I'm just referring to personalities here, not policies). Yep, I'd say men are still pretty out of touch with their animas and Venus archetypes.

Cathy

[Teresa Amina]

So that's what it's called! Have wondered if this was a common occurance as it's something I've sought and found in my life now and then, not just CDing. I've always referred to it as the Eternal Moment, in which time compresses and expands at the same time. Not a particularly good description but is an astounding experience.

[Delila]

i read an article once that stated that a higher percentage of crossdressers are men working in higher stress jobs or in general have more stress in there lives and tend to decompress when dress. It is almost as though the second persona gives a safe place to deal with your stress from a different point of view.

[Cathy Anderson]

I've always referred to it as the Eternal Moment, in which time compresses and expands at the same time. Not a particularly good description...
Actually, a very good description

People describe similar experiences in connection with:

1. some mind-altering drugs
2. Nature experiences
3. Profound experiences of Beauty in art, music
4. Religious practices
5. Meditation

This is also like a quality of experience sometimes described as "numinous."

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

i read an article once that stated that a higher percentage of crossdressers are men working in higher stress jobs or in general have more stress in there lives and tend to decompress when dress. It is almost as though the second persona gives a safe place to deal with your stress from a different point of view.
Right. And not just stress, but specific kinds of stress. For example, I've read (maybe even in the same article) that CDing is more common among men with jobs like military, police etc.

Cathy

[Teresa Amina]

This is also like a quality of experience sometimes described as "numinous."

Will have to look that up. Thanks again for your insight.:thumbsup:

[Marla S]

Of course, these various views are not mutually exclusive. Different CDs might have different motives, or each person may have a mixture of motives with varying degrees of strength.
I totally agree.


In my case, just imagining myself to be a woman can be relaxing--even while drab.
I think that is not neccessarily a contradiction.
I have the same experience, but for me it always includes somehow the imagination of a female body or feminine clothes. So, dressing alone is only a part, though a special one, and might be seen as catalyst.


i read an article once that stated that a higher percentage of crossdressers are men working in higher stress jobs or in general have more stress in there lives and tend to decompress when dress. It is almost as though the second persona gives a safe place to deal with your stress from a different point of view.

Right. And not just stress, but specific kinds of stress. For example, I've read (maybe even in the same article) that CDing is more common among men with jobs like military, police etc.
Here again I think it might be the other way round. Though women today become soldiers or cop as well, these are still prototypical masculine jobs.
In these jobs the women are crossdressers and the uniforms indicate that they belong to this "masculine" community.
Therefore, the need for a stress relieve might not be solely due to the stress of the job itself, but due to a compensation of the accentuated masculinity in these jobs by a accentuated feminity while crossdressing.

I don't know if there are studies about it but in this context i'd be interested in the following questions.
1.) Would it be a motive for CDers to go to the army or police in order to enforce their masculin self, hoping the feminin aspects will diminish ?
2.) Is the army or police a way for women to accentuated their masculin self ?
3.) Do female soldiers and cops show a similar trend to dress more feminine during their leisure time ?

[Cathy Anderson]

So, dressing alone is only a part, though a special one, and might be seen as catalyst.
Now that you mention it, I do seem to recall that Reich talked some about clothing. (How could he not? Clearly clothing is very related to body image). Interestingly, he did have some things to say about why people found thinks like bondage erotic.


1.) Would it be a motive for CDers to go to the army or police in order to enforce their masculin self, hoping the feminin aspects will diminish ?
Very good point. Certainly that must be true in at least some cases. Perhaps this is what accounts for the suggested higher prevalnce of CDs in these professions.

3.) Do female soldiers and cops show a similar trend to dress more feminine during their leisure time ?
Interesting. I have seen some such women "carry themselves" much like men--including similar tensions, say in the back and neck. So how do such women relax?

Of course, many men experience stress, but only some CD. This makes me think that we would have to add a vulnerability factor to the Reich hypothesis. Different men release the stress different ways. Only those with "vulnerabiity to CDing" would choose CDing. The vulnerability might be genetic, early life experiences, etc.

Cathy

[EricaCD]

I don't have a huge amount to add to this discussion other than a personal belief, not backed by fact or logic, that in my case CDing started as a desire to escape masculine stereotypes that I was not comfortable with as a boy. That no longer adequately explains my impulse to dress - which leads me to believe that once a person becomes comfortable (relatively speaking) with CDing as an outlet, it can serve to address other emotional or psychological needs.

Back onto topic (sort of). Personally I seriously doubt I will ever get a satisfactory answer to the "why" of crossdressing. However, that absolutely does not mean I want to stop asking the question. To my mind, the only really fun questions are the ones where the answer may be unknowable. So thanks to all of you for keeping our minds focused in such interesting ways on such a fascinating topic!

Erica

[Cathy Anderson]

which leads me to believe that once a person becomes comfortable (relatively speaking) with CDing as an outlet, it can serve to address other emotional or psychological needs.
Erica, this is a really important point. There is little doubt in my mind but that this is so.

It's exactly this kind of thing that makes it seem sometimes that there is no answer. Because if you try to explain things in terms of just one theory or factor--even for a single CDer--you can always find evidence that seems to contradict the theory.

For this reason I never try to look for a single explanation. Rather, I'm interested in "principles" which may be examined individually, but which in reality we know must interact in diverse ways to produce all the variations we see.

Cathy

[Aynthem]

OK, I'm a bit lost. A lot of the pyschobabble just went right over my head. But here's my main concern:

Some CDs use thier crossdressing for sexual gratification, some it is a fetish nessisary for the act, others it is merely a tool for relaxation. That's all well and good. If someone reconciles themselves to thier CDing for whatever they use it for, so be it.

What if you've reconciled yourself to the fact, as I have, that I am a crossdresser. This is not a phase like my parents thought it might be, I'm well past that age. It is not going to go away simply by getting married. But I'm still not comfortable with it. I'd rather NOT do it. Every website related to CD issues seems to want to create acceptance and embracment of the CD's crossdressing. What if a CD has accepted they do this but don't want to continue? Like, and this is a bad metaphor but the only one I can think of, and alcoholic is never, cured of alcoholism, they just manage it down to not drinking anymore.