Its really not fair

[Becky Blue]

My office is in a small building with a number of companies in various industries mostly professionals. I would estimate there are maybe 50 men and 30 women in the building. There is a vast range of ages from early 20s to 70s...

Last week one of the women was wearing what I would describe as a Pirate shirt (Any Seinfeld fans will know exactly what I mean) her shirt was white and had big puffy sleeves with white pearls sewn in rows along her upper arms. I know it sounds dreadful but it was actually quite nice.

A different day and a different woman was wearing a knee length tightish black skirt that had what I could only describe as bands of silver glitter sown into the material.

A third woman was in a very conservative work suit black jacket, white shirt and black below the knee skirt but she had the most amazing leopard skin ankle boots.

All 3 women were middle aged..

This really got me thinking just how unfair it is... how women can be creative in their clothes and accessories but we men have to choose between blue black and white shirts, pants and zzzzzzzzzz

[Teresa]

Becky,
The only statement most guys can make is a change of tie if you still wear one . That was one reason why I didn't mind wearing one some ties can be a talking point , I admit still not the same as being able to make a complete fashion statement . The real unfairness is you can't dress for work and join them , we all know what it's like to sit at a desk and in nice fitting clothes just doing you're normal jobs . At some point in the day someone will say you look great and then a conversation will continue about clothes and where they were bought and what accessories they could have worn instead .

I know you can get speciality ties made with messages worked into them , my father in law had a couple with explicit ones which weren't obvious until turned on their side , maybe you could get one done saying , " I'm really Becky underneath !"

[Becky Blue]

Teresa, I have worn a tie to work maybe 6 times in the past 4 years.. so I cant even find a splash of colour there

[Kiwi Primrose]

That variation of clothing plus the variety of fabrics ìs what drew me to feminine attire many years ago.I always resented having to conform to the male stereo-type.

[DIANEF]

I had to wear a shirt and tie every day for years at a previous job, I didn't even get much choice with the ties (various shades of blue, that was it) yet all the women had no restrictions at all (within reason) of what they wore. So unfair.

[char GG]

If you can’t find color and variety in men’s clothing, that is because you aren’t looking. This past summer, men’s dress shirts came in a rainbow of colors and were displayed in a chain department store. There is a guy where I worked that wore gorgeous embroidered shirts. He said he bought them online. Some men are very creative with their clothes and it shows that they care about what they wear.

I realize that those on this forum gravitate toward clothing from the women’s department but before you jump on the bandwagon bashing men’s choice in clothing, take a look at what is available for men currently.

[Beverley Sims]

That's why I choose to dress like any other woman. :-)

Okay, it is hard to do it at work.

[alwayshave]

Becky, it is unfair. However, I have pink and lavender dress shirts that I wear to the Office several times a week. Though the are all the same button down dress shirts. Pants are very boring.

[Angela Marie]

There are some variations in menus clothes and, as one poster pointed out, you can be creative. However women's clothing offers far more options. Since I retired I can count on one hand the number of times I have worn a suit/dress shirt/tie. I always envied the women who could dress in a multitude of styles. I would have loved to wear leggings of various colors to work; as well as other types of dress. But gender dressing rules are still very much ingrained in our workplace environment.

[michelleddg]

Yeah, but it makes getting dolled up all the sweeter for you :-) Hugs, Michelle

[AKADonna]

Becky, please be patient and have confidence that things will change for you, if not in one way, then perhaps another. As society adjusts to change, most companies are so fearful of gender discrimination lawsuits that they totally relax their dress codes. Also, as society changes, so will the acceptance of CD's and transgender people in the workplace. And, lastly, if all of this doesn't happen fast enough, there are always other jobs to mov to or perhaps retirement might be looming on the horizon.

Hang in there and be patient.

That said, adding to the frustration, I'm sure, is the realization of the myriad of feminine dressing possibilities, once you go shopping. Don't let that get you down!

[Dorit]

Lets face it, unlike birds, in Western culture it is the female that get to decorate herself and not the male. Maybe you should consider transitioning! LOL:heehee:

[Alice Torn]

Char, I agree. Men may have to just be more creative and resourceful, but we still have far fewer choices. Colors yes, though. We can do better with color. But, still, shirt and pants and coat. However, i like wearing loud plaid sportcoats! Guys used to wear spats and black and white shoes way back when! I do not mind dressing up nice in nice guy clothes, and am not ashamed to say so. I can look good as a guy, or a gal.

[Stephanie47]

Before I retired I worked in an office setting. I wore a dress shirt and slacks and tie. True, the color of the pants did not change very much; black, grey and brown. It was a rarity for me to wear a white dress shirt. My closet was full of solid color dress shirts. I had a lot of colorful ties that expressed my feelings when I awoke. In some respects I am drawn to women's dresses because of artistic qualities; floral prints, etc. Men's wear does not have to be boring. As a retiree my male garb is rather expressive. Nothing dull about my choice of graphic tee shirts which is my normal attire.

[Micki_Finn]

Try Klein Epstein and Parker. Decidedly less boring men’s suits.

[deebra]

Becky so true, why is it women can wear anything including men's clothes and men are restricted to dark suits and neckties? Take me for example, I think some women's clothes look really nice on me, much better than men's. Why can't society accept this?????

[Jaylyn]

This is why I love dressing I get to wear pretty things. Not out to the public but still can enjoy the colorful, soft, nylons and dresses in the comfort of my own home. I sometimes just hate men's clothing colors. The only time I can see why men's clothes are good is when I go to the farm. Boots, wranglers and long sleeves with a straw hat to cover the balding spots.

[biancabellelover]

Back in the day when I was an office worker I was happy that I could dress simply. It saved me money (I’m a typical Australian tight-arse with money). I felt sorry for my female coworkers who had to wear a different outfit every day.

Having said that, I had five suits, thirty work shirts, sixty ties, and over twenty sets of cuff-links and tie pins, so I’m not sure whether I was ahead or not there, LOL!

Change careers to become a pilot: uniform is supplied, but is a short sleeve shirt with a tie (something I wouldn’t be seen dead in when I worked in IT.)

Change careers again, and now it’s casual shirt and pants.

In male mode I’m not jealous, and still prefer the simplicity of dressing male. In female mode I get envious.

Michelle

[Asew]

There are definitely options for the male wardrobe, but if you look at a standard department clothing store you can easily see how the women clothes have so much more variety. Even my wife who basically wears t-shirts and leggings most of the time, there is so much variety in that simple look (t-shirts have different types of cuts and colors, leggings have variety in patterns and colors) whereas my male wardrobe is cargo shorts or jeans and t-shirts (all the t-shirts are cut the same, all the pants are solid color). Now that I wear skirts a lot, it adds so much variety even to those basic t-shirts since skirts have so much variety.

[AllieSF]

Oh, I hear you. But to change all that someone needs to be out in front taking those first steps showing the real world that we are just like them but like to dress as the opposite sex. One, a few or many, but staying home and whining seems so weak to me. Now the whining once in a great while to someone else is OK, but here on this site, that feeling comes up so often that it becomes whining to some of us here that have read it all. I know it is hard, and I did it for 10 years, not staying home, but going out into the city 2-3 times a week. However, that was far enough away from my safe zone that when out I just didn't really care. Closer to home was another story. I would sneak in and out of the house completely or partially dressed depending whether me son was home or not.

So, when in the closet, no matter the size and mine had a secret door into the city and freedom, we just have to make do, sneak around or not and enjoy what we have, even if it is only our good health and family. I did it until I couldn't do it more and came out to family, then friends and then everyday acquaintances and neighbors. I am now almost free like a bird, except for my daughter and grandson, people who matter in my life and have problems with the new me.

[Trione]

No it isn't fair. But since I retired many years ago I have only worn a tie twice, once when I married my second wife (DADT) and once at my grandsons wedding. Glad I can now wear whatever I want.

[candice.aihara]

This really got me thinking just how unfair it is... how women can be creative in their clothes and accessories but we men have to choose between blue black and white shirts, pants and zzzzzzzzzz
You can play with patterns, textures and colours. There are plenty of men's apparel stores that offer this variety. Banana Republic, H&M, Uniqlo, and Zara are some good example. That said, women's fashion is much more varied.

[Tracii G]

How many here would actually wear different styles and fabrics, bright or pastel colors in mens clothes?
I would venture to say not many because you don't want to be perceived as gay at the office.
To complain that its unfair seems a bit of a stretch because not many here would wear it anyway.
Disclaimer: I was not referring to any certain members of the forum so please don't get mad.

[Bobbi46]

Its true mens fashion is down right boring I had to wear a tie at work and i was known for my flamboyant ties one was called ( by my collegues) my breakfast tie, it looked like a full English breakfast had been spilt down it! but that is far as one could go in my job but for sure the bounderies need to be pushed further as regards colours in mens clothing, not that I am greatly interested too much now, I am only too pleased with huge variety of styles and colours that we have in womens fashions, for example you only have to look at the bra websites and sometimes one is blinded by the huge number of different styles and colours.

[Becky Blue]

The interesting thing is that about 9 comments above mention that men can have different colours or fabrics... I say meh, its a mens shirt cut in basically the exact style, it will have a collar and around 6 buttons it could be slim line or not... that does not compare to the myriad of shapes and designs of tops that a woman can wear it work. Never mind pants, shoes, accessories..

[Charlotte7]

Me, I love the opportunity to wear different thigs everyday, longer, knee length, shorter (not very often very short, but every now and then ;) ). But one thing about it, compared with when I used to go in to the office everyday, (when I wore the same 'offfice uniform' day in, day out, smart shoes, dark trousers, shirt and tie (if I was meeting clients)) is that it is much harder work deciding what to wear. Yesterday it was a pink skirt and top, but I can't wear that today because I wore it yesterday, and anyway, today is a bit warmer and more humid, so I need to go for something a bit looser, but do I wan't smarter looser or slightly more dressed down looser? In boy mode I would have been dressed ages ago, I would have just thrown on my shorts and a T-shirt. Ok, as I've typed that I've settled on my loose navy flowing skirt, a top to show it off and a silver necklace. This outfit happens to fall directly in the middle of smarter and dressed down, but is definitely appropriate for office wear (that is 'home office' wear). So, yes, women have most of the advantages when it comes to clothes, but not all, but I know which way around in the debate I happen to fall, loose and flowing every time ;) And I'm more than happy to take full advantage of women's good fortune when it comes to dressing.

[AngelaYVR]

I detest these types of threads. If you want things to change, then put yourself out there. If you're not then you are basically saying you want others to do the hard work for you. Do you think women got the vote by simply complaining to each other? Or that any other great societal shift happened by chance? So start drawing up your battle plans.

[Teresa]

Angela ,
It's not as easy as that , I was a self employed professional photographer for thirty years in a small town , everyone knew me , my clothes were like a uniform . I always wore a suit with collar and tie to cover my weddings ans always had a shirt and tie on in my studio for portrait sittings and meeting customers . I knew on commercial industrial jobs I may have to meet the MD/CEO first , first impressions mattered , I knew it would affecrt my income .

I'm so glad it's all changed and I can put myself out there , it's easier for me but others do have problems and not all of their own making .

Tracii,
Of couse it's true , male flambouyant clothes give a totally different message to most people than colourful female clothes . It's funny how men can be called more effeminate by wearing way out clothes in male mode and yet it's not a problem when wearing female ones . Which way are you more likely to be picked up ?

[fly2188]

I complain about this to my wife. About the only option we have as men is do you what size checkers do you want and what color. I think guys would be more into shopping like women if they had more variety available.

[Robbin_Sinclair]

I have a large assortment of kilt tops from a couple of kilt companies. People accept that look as unusual but me. They keep the sun off my arms (skin cancer concerns) and they look good. Strong masculine colors to make people happy I look male but still great, especially with the minishirt under my baggy, scrubs type of bottom male apparel.

It is not fair. Exactly right. Even more so in tropical climates. Cheers, :kiss:

[Maid_Marion]

Luckily, nobody has complained about me wearing colorful women't shirts at work.
Why should they? They fit me perfectly. It would really suck if I had a job where
I had to wear 32S suits. I think there is exactly one online clothier that sells them for guys.

Interestingly enough, the older male customers don't seem to mind either. They are just happy
to talk to someone with my experience and expertise.

It is an accurate stereotype that small guys dress poorly. They can't find clothes that fit!
Wearing clothes that fit extremely well shatters that stereotype and promotes a good image.

[Rayleen]

I remember in the 70's, men's clothing came in colors. Got married in a nice green shirt and matching tie along a colored suit.
I also bought pink shirts then, and women complimented me.
I guess the style changes, but less variation for men, deplorable. We could have nice colors variety in clothing
Hopefully the colors will come back .

Rayleen

[deebra]

Becky I'm going to agree with you again in your thread # 25.

[BrendaPDX]

I agree! Skirts and dresses of all lengths, materials, weight, and color, so much to choose from. Yes, guys have choices too but I think there isn't as much leeway to express moods, or environments.

[AngelaYVR]

Angela ,
It's not as easy as that , I was a self employed professional photographer for thirty years in a small town , everyone knew me , my clothes were like a uniform . I always wore a suit with collar and tie to cover my weddings ans always had a shirt and tie on in my studio for portrait sittings and meeting customers . I knew on commercial industrial jobs I may have to meet the MD/CEO first , first impressions mattered , I knew it would affecrt my income .

And there's the rub. It wouldn't be easy and I never said it would. It's the complaining that irritates me. Most of the freedoms we enjoy today were won on the backs of others and nobody has seriously tackled this issue yet...so someone has to lead the charge.

[Tracii G]

Thats my point too complaining never fixes anything.
If you want change do something about it yourself.
You want to wear more stylish /more colorful clothes then do so.

[candice.aihara]

The interesting thing is that about 9 comments above mention that men can have different colours or fabrics...
Fabrics play a huge role in how clothes fit and drape. So, yes, it does matter. Women's fashion figured this out many decades ago. Men's fashion, thankfully, is recognising there's much more than just a 'collar and around 6 buttons'.

[Judy-Somthing]

It's kind of funny.

I'm going to a wedding and as you know the women will all have different outfits, and mostly be dressed to kill in a beautiful dress!

So when I went with my wife to look a suits I saw row after row of about 1000 suits that basically all look the same and I let out a laugh.

At least you can dress it up with a tie.

[Sami Brown]

I was amazed to find a men's shirt that is black with little white polka dots. I had never seen one before, and I had to have it. The location didn't have one my size, but I found one about ten miles away. The fabric looks like the female version. Of course it still has the men's cut, but at least it was a chance to move my male wardrobe a little toward the feminine direction.

I also only buy men's shirts that have some feminine characteristics. I like Hawaiian shirts because they often are floral. I also buy more feminine colors such as purple or lavender.

I know it isn't the same as strictly female styles, but I feel that the feminine influence makes these worthwhile purchases for when I am drab. That's my way of moving the fashion needle a little bit.

Sami

[char GG]

In the movie The Great Gatsby, (Robert Redford and Mia Farrow - 1974 version), Robert Redford wore a pink suit! It was awesome. I remember the women loving that look, especially on him.

[Becky Blue]

I detest these types of threads. If you want things to change, then put yourself out there. If you're not then you are basically saying you want others to do the hard work for you. Do you think women got the vote by simply complaining to each other? Or that any other great societal shift happened by chance? So start drawing up your battle plans.

Angela, a few points - Firstly its easy to say but life gets in the way, some of us have family and/or work responsibilities. Secondly my OP was a comment on society and how its evolved, I don't believe it is going to change nor am I advocating that it does change necessarily, it is what it is. Just because a person does not like soemthing or think its fair, does not mean they have to go out there and change the world, nor expect others to do it.

Seeing the vast range of woman's clothing options makes me envious, but I am not advocating changes to the way of the world. I get my opportunity to explore Woman's fashions and greatly enjoy that when I can.

@Char I remember that pink suit it was awesome.

[sometimes_miss]

Becky, I'm not sure why you keep bringing this 'unfair' stuff up. Life is unfair. Sure women get to wear more varied things than men do in our culture. Men get to walk around without being sexually accosted at 2 in the morning. You're preaching to the choir here. Perhaps go to a women's fashion forum and discuss how unfair that is with the women there?

[jacques]

hello Becky,
you are correct - it is not fair.
I wonder though if that is why we dress - for the colours and the fabrics?
Many of us started dressing out of curiosity before we were teenagers - perhaps because boys and mens clothes are so boring?
luv J

[Becky Blue]

Lexi, this forum is designed to discuss things, if your not interested in the topic why read the thread?

[susan54]

As has been said, life isn't fair. Lack of clothing freedom is one of the very few unfairnesses on men. Women get sexually approached if they step outside, often get paid less, their ideas are taken less seriously, childless women get questioned about why, the list goes on. Some of the bad behaviour against women is FROM women.

It doesn't even end there. There are certain male clothes you can't really wear in most western countries without getting similar reactions to those you would get with a skirt. Try wearing a Stetson for instance. Or a ribbon tie. Or an Elvis catsuit. Or even (outside Scotland) a kilt. Actually I speak from experience that you get reactions in a kilt even in Scotland. Extend that to male clothes from Africa or the middle or far east and it becomes even more difficult.

It isn't true that you have to put yourself out there in a skirt or dress to change things. I have done this but not in a way that affects my life so I can't claim to have done much leading by example where people know who I am. Far from home I often go out in a skirt and occasionally (OK once) in a dress as a man. What I have done is make these points to journalists and one has actually quoted from my letter in The Times. Another Times journalist made similar points in a recent article. We need attitudes to change and the press is a good way to achieve this. Even David Beckham didn't get men or boys into sarongs so it is an uphill struggle. But I detect definite movement in attitudes. As an example in my local branch of Debenhams when I shop for dresses as a man I have always been directed to the Personal Shopper suite (which is great if it is not already in use) but the last two times I have just been shown to a female changing room as though it was nothing out of the ordinary. You can also talk about it. I work in a very open-minded environment and I can openly criticise the unfairness without being suspected of secretly wanting to wear dresses to work. Yes, it is also so open-minded I COULD wear dresses to work, but I know that this is how I would be remembered and I prefer to be remembered for the calibre of my work (where I have been very successful). To put it bluntly, there are more important issues in many of our lives than getting the freedom to wear a skirt to work. And there are more serious injustices in society than restrictions on male fashion. And all in all we have it better than women.

[deebra]

Becky you're being hit with the same negativity I have. I totally understand your post but am disappointed why some members do this. We are two of a kind, trying to be positive and bring up interesting subjects.

[Becky Blue]

Thanks Deebra, I feel very lucky to be someone who can feel jealous of the wide range of colours, styles, shapes, materials and general diversity that women have.. and that I get to be like that sometimes....

[Stephanie Julianna]

I agree on all points. I have felt this way all my life. I remember my First Holy Communion when I had to wear a dark blue suit, which I wore every Sunday, and all the girls got to wear beautiful white dresses with chiffon, tafetta, or satin full skirts with pretty flowers and stuff in their hair. I pretty much feel that way every time I go to a wedding as well.

[rhonda]

Just wondering how hard is it for an aussie to become British if British you can at least wear a skirt , I mean kilt

[Becky Blue]

Rhonda Rhonda Rhonda with no offence at all to my lovely British friends... Aussies would never become Brits and they wouldn't have us anyway :D

[DaisyLawrence]

Rhonda Rhonda Rhonda with no offence at all to my lovely British friends... Aussies would never become Brits and they wouldn't have us anyway :D

Except that most are, essentially, Brits in any case (offspring of convicts or, more recently, the ones that legged it due to a rain allergy) :) :) These smilie faces are to indicate that this is just good humour, in case you left yours on the shores of old Blighty :)

Incidentally, the kilt actually originates from Ireland not, as is assumed, Scotland.

[kimdl93]

It occurred to me that we create the box we live in. But it also reminds me that I don’t really dress as a woman because the clothes are nicer....I dress to express that part of me that identifies as/with a woman.

[t-girlxsophie]

My friend bought a tie in the Transgender colours,and their colleagues are none the wiser.
I myself have jumpers in various colours Inc pink,

Sophie

[Becky Blue]

Daisy... so many possible answers so little time :) in the past i would have simply said Cricket - but alas....

Kim i would agree we dont dress because the clothes are nicer, but the clothes are so much nicer...

[Sandra_Dodds]

The interesting thing is that about 9 comments above mention that men can have different colours or fabrics... I say meh, its a mens shirt cut in basically the exact style, it will have a collar and around 6 buttons it could be slim line or not... that does not compare to the myriad of shapes and designs of tops that a woman can wear it work. Never mind pants, shoes, accessories..

I'm absolutely with you on this one Becky. In male mode it's do I wear the black trousers or the black trousers. But in girl mode it's do I wear a black pencil skirt, an a-line skirt, a knee length or a mini; do I wear plain, pleated or textured; perhaps a ponte, peplum or whatever skirt. And then, what tights do I pair this with - sheer, opaque (how heavy?), ribbed, lace, fishnet; and should they be black or any other colour...I could go on but it will just bring me down. [And I didn't even mention footwear!]

[nikkiwindsor]

Of course it's "fashion unfair" (fu) on so many levels, not just clothing...let's just take a cursory look at hair...
I love changing up my hairstyle and color and cis-gals do it every day! eerr!

- blonde, brunette, red, or something beyond in hair color
- hair up or hair down
- hair long or short
- different hairstyles (bald, butch, faux hawk, pixie, bob, asymmetrical bob, shag, tousled, bouffant, bouffant updo, braided bun, casual chic, cornrows, I'll post more later since I'm getting tired and depressed thinking about this post...)

[Taylor186]

Last week one of the women was wearing what I would describe as a Pirate shirt (Any Seinfeld fans will know exactly what I mean) her shirt was white and had big puffy sleeves with white pearls sewn in rows along her upper arms. I know it sounds dreadful but it was actually quite nice.

I own (still) the Seinfeld style Pirate shirt (aka Puffy shirt). Owned it before the Seinfeld show made it (in)famous. At the time I thought of it more as a Prince style shirt. It was sold by International Male, yes, FOR MEN. I wore it once in male mode then it saw heavy Halloween rotation. First time around 1990 the last time in 2006. Jerry's show made it a cliché and IM stopped selling it. Then IM went out of business. A coincidence?

[Becky Blue]

Well put Sandra, and accessories and all that is JUST for a black skirt...
Nicki, thats hair, what about eyes, what colour eye shadow, we can go on and on
Taylor, based on them selling the pirate shirt to males no wonder they went bust...it certainly looked good on your as a girls top

[Tracy Irving]

The lack of men's clothing options makes it way easier to get dressed, get out of the house and get things done.

[Taylor186]

Becky; don't forget, it was the 80s.


Adam and the Ants, Spandex Ballet, Prince and the Revolution
294935 294936 294937

[Becky Blue]

Good point Taylor, fashion was heading towards dual gender and then lost its way