Blowing smoke

[Majella St Gerard]

I understand that this is a support forum and anyone brave enough to dress up and post a picture gets an automatic A for effort. But I don't believe people are being honest in their over-flowing praise. Telling someone that they "PASS" when they clearly don't is doing a dis-service. I'm not saying that you should be a Simon Cowell in your critique, maybe more like Randy Jackson.
Just my opinion.
I know I'll get some shit for this.

[Julie MA]

I agree on some level. But we are also come here to support our CD and Trans friends. Sometimes that requires a little hyperbole. Especially since this is the only echo chamber we can get some positive feedback

[KatrinaK]

I’m not sure I agree that it’s a disservice. The reality is that most of us will never pass. I can pass from the neck up or bootie down, but my torso and frame are undeniable tells. I actually don’t have an Adam’s apple, which I’ve always found odd and is one of many reasons why I want to take an XXY test.

Blending on the other hand is something that we can accomplish and that requires oodles of confidence. Confidence is the key to strutting your stuff. Confidence does not come from Simon Cowell, unless you are Simon Cowell and in that case you probably have too much already LOL.

Reality check: for every passable photo I post here, there are 10 that get deleted with a cringe. Just saying...

Yikes now my secret is out!

[Helen_Highwater]

Majella,

I tend to agree with you. Honesty is the best policy. It's been debated many many times here about blending Vs passing. I will always say if I feel someone is going to blend and hope that offers encouragement. What I'm not going to do is say something like, " For god's sake, don't ever set foot outside the door until you improve your looks!!!" There's no need to be mean.

I have commented on what I feel to be someone's faux pas dress wise but hey GG's make those mistakes and again I feel that's constructive criticism. However telling some the pass when they don't is setting someone up for a fall.

[AllieSF]

I get your point and have occasionally seen that too. However, I would guess most of those who receive those comments never have gone out into the outside world and probably never will. Those same people have eyes and can easily and probably do see all the pics posted by the good lookers and good blenders and well as those who definitely would have difficulty blending in while out. Therefore, I think that they understand that if some says that they pass/blend they really do know the reality of how they look. Most of us are or have gone through those insecure stages, so why pile on negativeness when some positive reinforcement can do wonders for their self esteem?

Katrina, I also like your comments.

PS: Helen, I like what you have said too.

[KatrinaK]

The only thing I would add is that honest and constructive feedback should be offered and welcomed by all. Don’t do this (please) but if you were to look at the evolution of my photos since I’ve joined here, you would see that it’s taken a lot of work, and a lot of constructive feedback for me to get where I am today. Again, please don’t look at my older photos, but if you did, you’d see what I mean.

[Lydianne]

I understand that this is a support forum and anyone brave enough to dress up and post a picture gets an automatic A for effort.

. . . Unless they are MIAD :straightface:.

- Lydianne.

[Teresa]

Majella,
The fact is we don't pass 100% , only last night when we were all meeting up for a coffee and a late night shop I parked my car and the a guy next to me said, " You didn't park it very square mate !" I replied , " What do you expect from a blond !" OK his comment was thoughtless as he didn't know if I was TG or TS but he would have made the same comment regardless . To me it's not about passing but comfortably integrating , we are read but not so much male or female but something slighlty different , as long as no one takes offence to that then all will be well .

Katrina ,
That's basically what I work on , I blend with other people the problem is I just love to chat and have some fun , whether that lets me down I can' say but it doesn't bother me .

As for showing pictures well some members don't rate that as coming out , in fact some have been quiet abusive about it , I don't take as many now as I'm out 100% so I don't need to prove anything, they can see me in reality which is great .

[Shelly Preston]

Anyone who has been here for any lenght of time knows the question of passing is a thorny issue.

Yes you can have the best looking picture but its not just about that.

It can be easier to "pass" if your blending in.

Also you need to have certain level of confidence to put yourself out there.

Remember women come in all shapes and sizes just like us.

So we may not measure up to the ideal woman but who has the right to decide if its a pass or a fail.

All that people are doing is giving an opinion.

[GracieRose]

I replied , " What do you expect from a blond !" .
Teresa,
Great comeback!!
I'll bet that made his head spin to correlate that to his "mate" comment.
-Gracie

[KatrinaK]

Shelly, Teresa, I agree with both of you 100%. The purpose of my picture tale was to illustrate that I don’t pass, unless in very controlled circumstances. And FYI, I am out and about at both community events and restaurants/bars with the muggles. I’m past my hiding at home days.

Confidence will get you far further than obsessing about passing.

[Piora]

You would not believe the number of female celebrities that people are commenting about on social media, saying that actresses such as Jennifer Garner, Jennifer Aniston, Milla Jovovich and many others are actually Trans. They really believe that they are. One poster mentioned that he "knew" Milla Jovovich was, because she has "wide shoulders". Another, that Jennifer Garner had a "man's jawline", so they deduced from that she was "born a man". Never stopping to realize that this is a woman who has had 3 children! As ridiculous as that is, it just goes to prove that there are GGs out there who have some masculine features, and there will be some people who think that they are actually men, because of those reasons. We come in all shapes and sizes, and it proves nothing about our gender. I knew a girl from childhood who grew up to be rather plain and masculine-looking. There were people who thought she was male. But I had played with her as a child, and knew that she was female. And the other side of the coin are Trans women who people in their wildest dreams wouldn't think were were really genetic males. So, maybe we shouldn't fear "Passing" if actual women are being thought of as being men.

[sometimes_miss]

Unless they are MIAD
about 99% of us here are just men in dresses to the rest of the world. And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. I'm fine with telling folks that they look good when dressed as women. I'm not fine with telling people that they look like women, when they don't.

The fact is we don't pass 100%
Passing isn't a %. Passing is either you appear to be a woman, or you don't. If you pass 99%, then you're clocked, because there's something that gives you away as a guy. Rupaul passes 99%. But in person in his heels he's about 7 feet tall, has big hands, moves with an exaggerated wiggle, and as soon as he speaks, he's clocked, too. Yes he looks great. But he's still a man in a dress. And there's nothing wrong with that.
The danger is in presenting ourselves as something that we're not, and then having to deal with the anger that may result when it comes down to the Crying Game reveal....OR dealing with some dumbasses that just hate effeminate men enough to want to kill us for that reason alone.

You would not believe the number of female celebrities that people are commenting about on social media, saying that actresses such as Jennifer Garner, Jennifer Aniston, Milla Jovovich and many others are actually Trans. They really believe that they are. One poster mentioned that he "knew" Milla Jovovich was, because she has "wide shoulders". Another, that Jennifer Garner had a "man's jawline", so they deduced from that she was "born a man". Never stopping to realize that this is a woman who has had 3 children! As ridiculous as that is, it just goes to prove that there are GGs out there who have some masculine features, and there will be some people who think that they are actually men
The difference is, these are opinions from people who have never met those celebrities in person. In real life, no one would ever dream that any of those women were ever men.

[KatrinaK]

Lexi, your definition of a MIAD is depressing. I’m gonna go bury my head in the sand... or maybe a drawer full of lingerie.

[Stephanie47]

One of the problems with this site when trying to gauge whether one is "passable" or not is the fact it is known the person is male. Right then your mind knows this is not a GG. I try to see if I had not known whether or not she could pull it off as being a GG. Sometimes I view the Youtube postings asking to guess whether the image is that of a cross dresser or a natural woman. If someone is blessed with a thin frame, slender face, nice legs, good makeup and hair it is really difficult to guess.

I see some on this site who are blessed with a figure that would not catch a man's eye. If you're overweight and short you tend to not be under scrutiny. Maybe, that is great if you're just trying to be out among the masses. The first time I was in San Francisco my eye wandered trying to spot a cross dresser. Back in 1977 I did not know too much about transgender women. Anyway, I notice two very lovely female forms having lunch. Perfect! Until they started to stand up. It wasn't their height, although taller than the average woman. It was their movements.

Pictures do not move. Pictures do not talk. I do not view the picture postings as a beauty contest. I try to view them as if I did not know they were men dressed as a woman.

I've completed seven full decades on this planet. I've looked on Youtune for pictures of cross dresser my age. I look under "mature crossdressers." Usually what pops up is a person in the thirties and maybe the forties. I definitely would pass were it not for my height. I'd look like my old grandmother. Then I would not have to worry about my upper lip. She needed a shave too!

[Lydianne]

Lexi, your definition of a MIAD is depressing. I’m gonna go bury my head in the sand... or maybe a drawer full of lingerie.


Hopefully, from an adherence-to-the-rules standpoint, the following does not derail the thread ( although a derail would be more worthwhile :straightface: ) :


( I think ) I understand what Lexi is saying. It's a view ( I think ) I also have, but her and I might differ; so I'll explain my own view just in case.

Firstly, two crucial parts of what she said:

1. "to the rest of the world."
2. "There shouldn't be anything wrong with that."

I use makeup in an attempt to try and transform my face. I am supportive of both approaches. I respect the difficulty of the transformation process on our side, and I have a little bit more reverence for MIADs when it comes to going out . . although one who identifies themselves as MIAD has told me that they don't think it requires any more courage --and who am I to disagree? But otherwise, we are similar in our appreciation of the clothing. Plus, I am capable of isolating the notion of beauty from the female. So to me, both approaches can be beautiful. Both approaches also bear load when trying to change social attitudes.


Some of us here make the makeup distinction and do not show support for those who do not use makeup. So they may well view themselves above MIADs, however, Joe Cool on the street with his backwards hat would be equally disapproving of us in makeup just as much as he would be of those who do not make the attempt. So to him, we are all men in dresses.

That's how I view it. Lexi may differ.

- Lydianne.

[KatrinaK]

Lydianne, I was trying to be lighthearted and funny, but since you’ve called me out I’ll bite on that hook. I have Gender Identity Disorder. I don’t consider myself a man, I just play one in real life 6 days a week. Im on the non binary spectrum in a way I’m working through with my therapist. We’ll get back to everyone when we figure it out. But the takeaway is that by calling everyone a man in a dress, one is fundamentally missing the point that we’re here specifically because we don’t conform to gender norms and we’re looking for community and support. Respect for preferred pronouns is a major part of that.

XO,
Kat

[Lydianne]

I missed your joke.


But to your serious point, I respect that. I said I can separate the notion of beauty from the gender. But the point was how the rest of the world views it . . . :straightface:.

And MIADs get this from both sides: From the rest of the world and from us..

- Lydianne.

[Maid_Marion]

Little girl asked her mother why I was wearing pink gloves. I go through a ton of garden gloves. They were on sale and fit me perfectly. Why can't a guy wear Barbie pink garden gloves for kids?

[KatrinaK]

Lydianne, you’re lovely, and thank you for the kind words.

Marion, what are you growing going through that many gloves? I love to garden too!

Everyone else, this thread was actually worth discussion on and it was about passing and specifically whether we should be more honest with each other.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Probably the quote "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is a more apt application. Appreciation of anything is a very subjective matter. There are some people who at one point thought a AMC Pacer was a fishbowl on roller skates that tried to pass as a car or Keanu Revves mono toned mumbling pass's for acting, or a certain occupant of a large white house in Washington DC passes for the ......... well you get my point LOL.

People probably start off with grand ideas, then later reality sets in and they work on their skill sets.

Some of the first outfits I put together made me believe I had style, Years later I realize I was fooling myself and that I had to work a bit ... welll a lot harder to achieve a respectable look.

[Maid_Marion]

Roses are my favorites, but I also grow hydrangeas, peonies, camellias, wisteria, azaleas, lilacs, and daffodils. Something is bloom six months out of the year! It helps that I prune aggressively, so I get second blooms out of mature plants like my wisteria.

[Diane Taylor]

Many in this community confuse "passing" with "blending in". In order to pass, you would have to NEVER be read as a male and that is virtually impossible unless you lived in a cave all your life. With the right clothing, makeup, wig, or whatever, we can to some extent go pretty much undetected in public....some more so than others, but there's always going to be someone who will pick up on the fact that we're males. Some of us just don't do a good job of presenting ourselves as "females" for various reasons and are easily read by the general public. Does it do any good to tell these "girls" that they pass, only to have them go out and be spotted immediately and possibly be made fun of and having their confidence shaken? We need to be told what we NEED to hear rather than what we WANT to hear. TRUTH is support too !

[alwayshave]

Majella, I'm not sure that I have told someone that have passed, I have told them that they are beautiful, lovely or sexy, because I believe they are. A few ladies I believed pass, but that does not make my prior statements untrue.

[Kimberly Adams]

I think *almost* anyone could pass as a woman if they are appropriately dressed, made up and have confidence to carry themselves properly. I've been out dressed in public many times and can easily blend but under any scrutiny I know I will not pass. I tend to agree with the OP that heaps of praise tend to get thrown around here where maybe it isn't justified but that applies to most of the pics I see. Maybe because I already know it's not a GG and tend to look for the tells right away. Maybe around 5% of the pics I see are like wow I can't believe that isn't a girl. If someone posts pics and wants to know if they will pass as presented I think honestly is the best policy.

[Lygophilia]

I don't think it's a necessity for them to pass as women, but rather they pass as looking attractive.

[Crissy 107]

Majella, I'm not sure that I have told someone that have passed, I have told them that they are beautiful, lovely or sexy, because I believe they are. A few ladies I believed pass, but that does not make my prior statements untrue.
I agree with this! Crissy

[Aunt Kelly]

Doctored pictures here are fine. Telling the subject that she looks nice (wonderful, marvelous, etc.) is a nice thing to do. That's why they took the shots and worked them over so hard. Yes, I do know that not everyone does this, but a lot of us do. Saying, however, that they're going to pass, based on that image is a fool's errand. As has been pointed out, most of us don't pass. Some of us can sometimes "blend", i.e. escape notice well enough avoid the second look which will kill inevitably kill the illusion. So stop building it up when it's just so much BS.

[nvlady]

I tend to agree with Majella, but on the other hand I've seen some GG's that I thought didn't pass.

[Tracii G]

Diane makes some good points.
Hearing the truth IS support IMO.

[Ozark]

I'm not comfortable posting photos. I don't dress to pass, I dress for comfort. The first time I posted photos on here the very first comment was 'how is this cross dressing?' I guess because I was in shorts and a summer top?

[Patience]

IMO, CDers who go out (or have the ambition to go out) should, for their own good, be held to a much higher standard than those who choose to only dress at home.

"Honesty is the best policy" is a good phrase, but so is "Do no harm".

[kayla_bayarea]

I agree that the word "pass" is being used too frequently. The situation (time, place, environment, etc.) needs to be heavily considered and not just how one is dressed. If you are sitting in a dimly movie theater and the person next to you thinks you are a GG does that count? If you are in a bathroom stall and the girl in the next stall over only sees your shoes and legs? I'm being somewhat facetious but I think you get my point. So, I think other compliments like feminine, pretty, or whatever are more warranted. Those are subjective too but at least they are more heavily dependent on superficial criteria.

There are some obese males and females who are quite androgynous. They "pass" better than me because the public can't tell. I assume that's not what people are striving for when they try to pass but it illustrates why the concept of passing is too complicated and fraught with tension when discussed.

A short anecdote:
I absolutely hate flying but had to do it quite a bit in my last job. On one of my return trips home I was wearing jeans, a grey sweatshirt, no makeup, and no jewelry. I just wanted to nap through the flight because I think flying sucks. An older guy sat in the middle seat between me and this other girl. Of course the guy was super chatty and I just wanted to him to shut up. He apologized to us ladies (his words) for being so talkative but said he always chats to people on flights. I didn't say a word because I was honestly trying to sleep. He continued to refer to me and the women on the other side as girls in his conversation. I was actually quite confused because I was not trying to look feminine at all and was in full airplane passenger slob mode. Ironically, I was wondering if I should be offended! :) It was several years ago and I'm still perplexed to this day why I read as female to him.

[suzanne]

Passing is not as important as being presentable, which is much more achievable. Dress yourself in clothes that fit properly and look tasteful and age appropriate, then behave in a friendly civilized manner. It turns out that's all the world expects from you in return for their respect. The same rules apply whether youre a MIAD or Andreja Pejic.

I make no effort to pass as a woman. I do everything in my power to be presentable and I act like it's not a big deal for me to be wearing a skirt. The response? Its not a big deal to them either and we get on with what we were doing.

[DaisyLawrence]

Many in this community confuse "passing" with "blending in". In order to pass, you would have to NEVER be read as a male and that is virtually impossible unless you lived in a cave all your life. With the right clothing, makeup, wig, or whatever, we can to some extent go pretty much undetected in public....some more so than others, but there's always going to be someone who will pick up on the fact that we're males. Some of us just don't do a good job of presenting ourselves as "females" for various reasons and are easily read by the general public. Does it do any good to tell these "girls" that they pass, only to have them go out and be spotted immediately and possibly be made fun of and having their confidence shaken? We need to be told what we NEED to hear rather than what we WANT to hear. TRUTH is support too !

Exactly! I've been banging this drum for ages and regulargly get criticised for it. Diane is correct, what is needed on a forum like this is honesty even if it seems cruel. Better to get the truth in your own home from a friendly sympathiser than to learn it the hard way in the city centre in front of hundreds of onlookers. Sometimes in life you have to be cruel to be kind.

[Tracy Irving]

If someone is trying to blend in and is looking for an honest opinion or even a little constructive criticism, then go for it. Beyond that, we don't know the intent of the original poster so I don't default to a "that will never work in public" point of view. I thought the gallery was more for fun, get dressed up and have a photo shoot or show off a new item.

[Teresa]

Gracie,
He had two females with him in the car and it left them all speechless , as I walked away in my heeled sandals , skirt and Tshirt with my bag sluns over my shoulder .

That shopping centre is great , I've been most of the shops and chatted to the SAs , they see me as what ! I can't say for certain but they do treat me like a normal human being and not some freak .

I find Lexi's comment a little hard on the ones in transition or thinking of going down that road .

[Helen_Highwater]

Majella,

Your post"anyone brave enough to dress up and post a picture gets an automatic A for effort. But I don't believe people are being honest in their over-flowing praise. Telling someone that they "PASS" when they clearly don't is doing a dis-service." is, without doubt, true, and having read the replies I think it's fair to say that there is a bit of a sea change taking place were blending is being used more frequently and more importantly, more honestly.

Stood in front of an SA I'm getting read. If I do post a picture while I will take any compliments I can get relating to my dress sense and over all look, if someone replies that I pass then as your title says, they're either blowing smoke or need to go to spec savers, and I know it!

I know from experience being out and about that I can blend. One time as I was leaving a shopping mall there was a car alarm going off in the distance. A GG who to was exiting said something like, "Oh they'll get back to a flat battery" and only when I made a reply did she realise I was CD. That I'll take any day, all day. She had seen a duck and only when it didn't quack like a duck, my femme voice isn't that good, did she really look. She was a little surprised but that was it. We still exchanged pleasantries and then went on our respective ways.

So I make it my policy to try to never use the "P" word when offing an opinion on someone's presentation. Telling someone they can successfully blend is more truthful, more realistic, kinder, more caring and in the long run far more helpful in aiding someone's journey.

[Becky Blue]

Interesting discussion ladies.. I have a few points to make.

Firstly you can't tell if someone passes by looking at a picture. Passing or blending in is being out there in the real world, that involves movement, facial expressions, different views from differing angles. A photo obviously is fixed at a moment in time. So telling someone that they pass in a picture means they look like a woman in that picture.

Secondly being nice and telling someone they look good is not saying you look like a super model, its actually saying all things considered you look really good.

There are a lot of people on here for whom taking a picture never mind posting it on the internet is a huge thing, i think its better to be encouraging and not criticise unless posters ask for constructive comments. If every time anyone posted a picture they received a whole lot of critical comments people would just stop posting pics here.

Thirdly the concept of passing 100% what does that mean? For the entire time you are out every person that sees you believes you are a woman? I believe in the concept of blending that means giving out sufficient female markers so that most people will not look closely enough at you to suspect your anything other than a woman. I believe given most women don't look 100% like a 'perfect woman' its not that hard to blend in if you dress to suit your body shape etc... Having been out quite often I am fairly confident that most of the time i blend in as thus far i have not been aware of anyone picking me.

[Julie Slowinski]

I like this subject. For me, I know I don’t pass or blend out in the world and I’m okay with that. I actually prefer people know I’m AMAB. To do so I engage in conversation (with my male voice) whenever the opportunity arises. No confusion, no pretending, no problem - I guess similar to a MIAD.

More to the spirit of the thread, I think this site should have more discussion about crossdressing technique. Makeup tips (specifically M2F contouring and YouTube videos that we have found helpful), selection of outfits and accessories that diminish our male features and give the illusion of feminine features, wig selection to help create a rounder more feminine face shape, correctly proportioned hip pads and how to make them (my favorite part of dressing). There is a science to crossdressing and if one has time it’s not that hard to learn. The wealth of knowledge contained in the collective of this community is vast, but few seem to ask about it. I suppose there is some of this in the Clothes, Shopping and Beauty section, but that section seems a lot less active than the others. It that spirit, I highly recommend this site for tips and tricks - helped me out immensely
https://feminizationsecrets.com/

[bridget thronton]

I have reached that point that I can see the beauty in almost everyone (passing is over rated - happiness is better)

[Shelly Preston]

I like this subject. For me, I know I don’t pass or blend out in the world and I’m okay with that. I actually prefer people know I’m AMAB. To do so I engage in conversation (with my male voice) whenever the opportunity arises. No confusion, no pretending, no problem - I guess similar to a MIAD.

More to the spirit of the thread, I think this site should have more discussion about crossdressing technique. Makeup tips (specifically M2F contouring and YouTube videos that we have found helpful), selection of outfits and accessories that diminish our male features and give the illusion of feminine features, wig selection to help create a rounder more feminine face shape, correctly proportioned hip pads and how to make them (my favorite part of dressing). There is a science to crossdressing and if one has time it’s not that hard to learn. The wealth of knowledge contained in the collective of this community is vast, but few seem to ask about it. I suppose there is some of this in the Clothes, Shopping and Beauty section, but that section seems a lot less active than the others. It that spirit, I highly recommend this site for tips and tricks - helped me out immensely
https://feminizationsecrets.com/

Julie

That is why we have a Clothing and Beauty Section

[Stacy Darling]

Blowing Smoke up someone's ass is scientifically irresponsible and has moral and karmatic repercussions!

I agree with you!

"Would you want a car which blew smoke"

Stacy!

[Micki_Finn]

It depends on how the photo is posted. If the poster is asking for feedback on their appearance, then it would be absolutely appropriate to give constructive criticism. If the poster is just saying “Hey this is me last weekend at an event in my favorite dress” then it would be highly inappropriate to give criticism.

[Teresa]

Julie,
What is also needed is , more people posting pictures of everyday events , it may be boring compared with dressing to the nines but what you choose to wear for a normal day , how much makeup .

Top of my list was getting the wig right ,that was the biggest boost to my confidence , makeup usually needs to be toned down so it knowing how to achieve that but still get the male tell tales hidden , I'm pretty well balanced so personally don't use any lower padding . I still feel that has to be used with some caution , living with the excess everyday may become tiresome , I prefer to be as natural as possible , just enough in my bra to achieve a balanced figure .

Again I'm going to quote Pat who told me to stop overthinking it , many of us search for perfection before we set foot outside the door , we have to be careful not to fall into the trap of going OTT searching for the Holy Grail of PASSING !

[Stacy Darling]

295351as you requested!

[sometimes_miss]

I think *almost* anyone could pass as a woman if they are appropriately dressed, made up and have confidence to carry themselves properly.
Uh, no. The vast majority of men will not pass, no matter what you do with them. Even those made up to look like older women have something that gives them away. Yes, they did terrific make up jobs in Mrs.Doubtfire and Tootsie. No, it would not fool anyone in real life. We get entranced by Tula and Andrea because they made it as women even after going through puberty. They're a tiny percentile of 1% of the MTF population.

I've been out dressed in public many times and can easily blend but under any scrutiny I know I will not pass.
'Blending' has everything to do with the people around you, not you. If no one notices that you're actually a man in a dress, you've blended. If they notice, you HAVEN'T blended; your a man in a dress. Doesn't matter if they tell you. Doesn't matter if they are tolerating your existence and not saying anything about it. You haven't blended. It's for this reason that all those who think that they 'blend', probably aren't.

I don't think it's a necessity for them to pass as women, but rather they pass as looking attractive.
What percentage of the population thinks that a man in a dress is attractive? And if it's only whether the crossdresser thinks he's attractive, then what does it matter?

I tend to agree with Majella, but on the other hand I've seen some GG's that I thought didn't pass.
Yes, but upon that instant secondary evaluation, it immediately becomes obvious that they ARE female. With us, it's the opposite. And that makes all the difference in the world.

There are some obese males and females who are quite androgynous. They "pass" better than me because the public can't tell.
Well, yeah, we can. As previously mentioned, there's almost always a secondary give away that discloses whether the person is male or female pretty quickly.

Passing is not as important as being presentable, which is much more achievable. Dress yourself in clothes that fit properly and look tasteful and age appropriate
What's presentable, tasteful and age appropriate is still defined by gender to the rest of the world. Justin Trudeau might dress in his wife's finest fashionable and age appropriate attire, but it would never be considered presentable to the general public.

I find Lexi's comment a little hard on the ones in transition or thinking of going down that road .
It would be far more damaging if they proceeded to transition based on the idea that they would pass or blend, only to find that they were still considered men in dresses by the rest of the world. MTF TS are, to pretty much everyone else, just MTF transsexuals. As much as we in the gender friendly group wish it were true, straight men and women do not consider MTF TS to be women; they are referred to as transsexuals by lay people.

Firstly you can't tell if someone passes by looking at a picture. Passing or blending in is being out there in the real world, that involves movement, facial expressions, different views from differing angles. A photo obviously is fixed at a moment in time. So telling someone that they pass in a picture means they look like a woman in that picture.
Exactly. But that's not what they're going to read into it , because that's not what's written. What's written, is, 'You pass'. So that's what they wind up thinking, mostly, because that's what they want to believe so very, very much.


Secondly being nice and telling someone they look good is not saying you look like a super model, its actually saying all things considered you look really good.
Then why not write 'all things considered, you look good', instead of writing something that can be easily misunderstood?
Because they want to hear that they appear to be a GG. So we tell them what they want to hear. Then in a later spot on the forum we see that they really believe it. And that can only lead to disappointment or worse.

Thirdly the concept of passing 100% what does that mean? For the entire time you are out every person that sees you believes you are a woman?
yes, that's what passing means; no one can tell that you're a man.

I believe in the concept of blending that means giving out sufficient female markers so that most people will not look closely enough at you to suspect your anything other than a woman.
^that's passing. If no one notices anything that gives you away, you've passed. And it's unbelievably difficult for a genetic male to achieve. Well, I guess not unbelievably, because most of us know just how many things give us away. And it only takes one.......

I believe given most women don't look 100% like a 'perfect woman'
No, but they don't have giveaways that hint that they're NOT women, either. And even those that do, are quickly recognized as GG's by everything else they present. Just like it's a rare man who's not recognized as one within a few seconds no matter what he's wearing, it's a rare woman who's not recognized as one within a few seconds no matter what she's wearing, as well.


Having been out quite often I am fairly confident that most of the time i blend in as thus far i have not been aware of anyone picking me.
As above, blending is determined by everyone else. Not the person who is trying to blend. You won't know it if it happens. Only they will. Because most people simply don't want to be bothered, and most don't like confrontations. This is why so many think that they are blending so well; no one's walking up to them and asking if they are actually men.

[Solange]

I would have as much luck passing as a woman as a Mack truck would masquerading as a Ferrari. That's totally ok because I'm not a GG, I am a CD. I own that identity. There are those who want to transition, and that's fine, but it's not me. I love being an enigma, a larger than life fantasy strutting in platform stilettos; but I also dream of sitting around with a group of gurls in pantyhose and dress shirts talking about everything from eyeliner to nightgowns.

I won't say I don't ever wish I was a beautiful GG, but I love the audacity of CD glamour. I don't care if you have a face like Sam Gamgee (hobbit companion extraordinaire), you're all gorgeous.

Kisses,

-S

[Becky Blue]

Lexi..do you really think that by telling someone they pass on an internet forum thats going to make someone do something they were not going to do anyway? Or that because someone is complimented here they ate going to think or do anything stupid, give some people some credit for basic intelligence. It is not unbelievably difficult to blend many of us do it often.. and again you seem to think most of us are a bunch of deluded blind stupids... when I am out I am well aware of what is happening around me, I use the woman's bathrooms regularly and i know that thus far I have not been picked.. I do not have a good woman's speaking voice so for example I have engaged with SA's when shopping and I have seen the surprise in their faces when i speak, the double take that says oh your not a woman. I am not saying I always pass/blend i am sure some people have picked me, but on balance i do most of the time.

[Sara Jessica]

Lexi, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but somehow you have conflated passing and blending and even went so far as to apply the passing standard (one will never know if they truly pass) to blending.

Blending is simply a much lower bar. Presenting in the real world in such a manner that you may get by a glance (or two or three if you are really lucky) before being read as trans-whatever. At that point, one continues to interact in whatever situation just as was done prior to being read. You hold power in the form of presentation and confidence. Others hold power in terms of acceptance at best, tolerance at worse without degenerating into something confrontational or ugly.

To blend doesn't mean in any way that others do no read into who or what you are. In fact, the epitome of blending is absolute knowledge that others will in fact read into who or what you are. What matters is how you deal with that knowledge.

I've received some pretty bitchin' compliments over the years but I cannot bend over far enough to blow smoke up my own a$$ to convince myself that I have passed. What I have done is navigated the real world in so many situations, with and without amazing friends, to know that most out there are more than willing to allow others to live and let live. I'd say that is pretty blendy if you ask me.

[Beverley Sims]

I give everyone encouragement I reply to, I also give constructive criticism and suggest a solution.

Sometimes I do not reply as I may not support that persons effort at that time.

Later the same person has put more effort into their appearance and I do reply.

[DaisyLawrence]

Lexi, what a long and detailed reply, it must have taken ages. Let me be the first to praise you for giving up so much of your time to discuss crossdressing despite it being a pastime which seemingly causes you nothing but grief, torment, and dissappointment.

[Teresa]

Becky,
I'm with you all the way in your comments .

There appears to be a huge hurdle some can't see over between staying in ther closet and being out in the real World . It's funny how so many give words of wisdom on it when they haven't even set one foot outside their own back door . Some see more problems here on the forum than happens in reality , the public are very accepting , it still saddens me that I've had more abuse and putdowns here on the forum than anything in reality .

GD has no bearing on how someone looks , if they are desparate to transition , passing becomes secondary , they will work on that issue after SRS as I know many have . Their treatment is ongoing , in the UK if you are reliant on the NHS then it will happen in stages . The important point is they have aligned their gender how they look and act will take time , for many that doesn't happen before SRS .

[DIANEF]

I am under no illusions that I 'pass', or ever will (unless a highly skilled and very cheap plastic surgeon comes my way). I have been out about 20 times now, without any kind of incident, so does that mean I 'blend'?, maybe. To me blending is being able to go about your business without any kind of, or very little reaction from the muggles, and yes, getting out there does take a fair bit of effort in both your look and presentation. When I first joined this forum I was given some very good advice from some people, some of which I probably didn't want to hear, but I realised it was well meant and took it on board. From experience, I'm with the honesty is the best policy group.

[nikkiwindsor]

I prefer honesty through constructive criticism where specific areas of improvement are shared in combination with highlighting what is being done well. Often, when i see a pic or video there is always room for improvement along with things worthy of positive affirmation.

I'd really like to see a list of things we should consider doing to improve our "blending/passing." I'm thinking about feedback from those with considerable experience traversing among the muggles. Yes, I'm speaking to you... Helen, Katrina, Teresa, Becky and others. For example, I've learned from my GFs that I need to significantly tone down my makeup routine and wear clothes that are in harmony with the surrounds. At 5'11", I know I need to invest in flats rather than 3-4 inch heels that I'm fond of. But the list goes on and on and it's certainly not all about appearance but also behavior, attitude, and demeanor.

[Teresa]

Nikki,
You can find some nice low heeled wedges , I still find flats don't give a nice leg line , as more than one GG has told me , " If you have them then flaunt them !" That doesn't mean short hem lines , I like mine just above or on the knee , I'm out most days with skirts and wedges . Makeup is possibly best dealt with by going to an ordinary cosmetic outlet and let them do a colour check to balance your skin colour with the appropriate lipstick and blusher . I still feel I make my eyes too heavy but most tell me it's about right , keeping the shading fairly muted and possibly dispense with false lashes as many GGs don't wear much mascara if any . Also you may find many don't line their lower eyeline and if they do only take it half way .
I know I've already mentioned lower padding , having an hour glass figure is great in a gorgeous gown but does it work for hours in the daytime when you are trying to do everyday jobs ? I'm vaguely aware of being tucked ( but it is a must !) and my (homemade ) forms give me all I need for my bust . I know this has been debated so many times but my forms really do work for me , they achieve everything I need from them , as you can see from my avatar picture . While I debate whether we pass 100% all I know is I walk down my local High Steet , I go in most types of shops , and even tried out a vacuum cleaner in a store and of course tried and bought a swim suit and I'm very comfortably accepted for whatever they think I am. To the public labels don't matter in the slightest , they don't know where I am on the TG road and it doesn't bother them , that is the most important point to consider , they don't know what is under the hood just be you in a more feminine form . Being read becomes less of a problem if you stop looking for a reaction , the less you expect a reaction the less it happens , I expected problems with loads of young school children on holiday epecially in the supermarket but not a single one picked up on me and we know what kids can be like !

[nikkiwindsor]

Teresa,

I received my second maxi in the mail yesterday and I love it...the other one was horrible but this one is perfect; I think the style is "empire" since it has elastic at about 2 inches below the bust and the dress flows from there. It's a tall size so it drops nicely to the ankle. Since no leg is showing, I'll purchase a pair of sandals with some style to go with it. At 5'11" I don't want to be any taller since I'm trying to blend in. I have to admit the cotton maxi is so comfortable. It flows beautifully. And I'm slowly getting use to much less makeup. I've darkened up the liner on the lower eyelash line but only applied about a 1/3 of the way from the outer corner of the eye. After the sandals arrive I'll take a full length pic and post. This style is so different than what I've been use to for years and years...but I'm really loving it; by the time I figure out everything related to what makes me truly happy I'll be dead...it's literally taking me a lifetime to bring things into harmony. Nikki

[Teresa]

Nikki,
That's cheating we don't know your age , not like your's truly .

It won't take a lifgetime it's not taken me too long , it does get easier if you can be free to shop in reality , get some input from SAs and even other customers , it's surprising how much a GG will give you an honest opinion once you're totally comfortable with being in and out of changing rooms .

[Leslie Langford]

Many in this community confuse "passing" with "blending in". In order to pass, you would have to NEVER be read as a male and that is virtually impossible unless you lived in a cave all your life. With the right clothing, makeup, wig, or whatever, we can to some extent go pretty much undetected in public....some more so than others, but there's always going to be someone who will pick up on the fact that we're males. Some of us just don't do a good job of presenting ourselves as "females" for various reasons and are easily read by the general public. Does it do any good to tell these "girls" that they pass, only to have them go out and be spotted immediately and possibly be made fun of and having their confidence shaken? We need to be told what we NEED to hear rather than what we WANT to hear. TRUTH is support too !

It actually works both ways, Diane.

I remember going to a wedding for the daughter of friends of ours some years ago where my daughter was a bridesmaid. All the young ladies in the wedding party there were in their early 20's at the time, and what struck me in particular was that while they were all extremely pretty, done up to the "nines" (professional makeup, hair, nails etc.) and wore gorgeous gowns that accentuated all of their female attributes, their comportment was terrible. It was obvious that they were struggling with their heels, and they were "galumphing" around like linebackers. Nothing delicate in their walks or movements, nor anything else otherwise "feminine" in the rest of their mannerisms. Kind of reminded me of all those "Womanless Beauty Pageants" that are all over Youtube except that in those cases, it is guys doing their lame version of drag for sh*ts and giggles.

So yes - looks can be deceiving, and as they say, you can't judge a book by its cover. I would venture to say that these young ladies had spent way too much time in jeans, leggings, jogging pants, sweats, flip-flops and ballet flats etc. in the past to even remotely feel comfortable done up that way - or even being in dresses, gowns, or heels for that matter - and it showed. All of which begs the question - who "passes" better here...a GG who has more authentic female features but lacks the stereotypical female mannerisms to complete the picture, or the accomplished crossdresser who struggles to conceal "her" inherent masculine features, but who has taken the trouble to perfect their female comportment to the point where it almost negates the former.

I call it a draw, so put me squarely into the camp that declares that attitude, confidence, and the ability to "blend in" are far more important - and ultimately successful - in any effort that we crossdressers make to be accepted and treated as a female by others when out in public, rather than by simple looks alone. I myself have experienced this first-hand, and anyone who still doubts this has only to read the posts by the numerous "passability-challenged" gender warriors here like Kandi Robbins who fearlessly go out "into the wild"...and live to tell the tale. ;)

[Jenny22]

I don't comment on every photo posted. When I do, its usually to say how pretty they are, and some truly are! I've never mentioned passing or blending, but when I see something that I feel could be improved, I will PM that girl rather then make it an issue in a post reply. Maybe this could be done more. Hmmmm.