Gender bias and valuation

[Mermaiden]

I was astounded to hear on Hidden Brain that a clever experiment found art is valued 40% lower if thought to have been produced by a woman. There is just a lot of implicit gender bias out there.
Makes me wonder if anyone here has found they are valued/compensated less when dressed as a woman?

[Wildaboutheels]

Maybe the experiment was "clever" but the people who participated in it obviously weren't if they valued art per whether a male or female made/produced it.

What I can tell you is that dressed 100% male, almost 0 compliments for me. Dressed "partially" female? As in just about every trip out other than going to work. Plenty of compliments.

Especially at Wally World believe it or not.

Wally World might be a place to go for ladies looking to fly the coop/confines of their house.

[Teresa]

Mermaiden,
I'm a member of an art group and during our exhibition the price of our art work we wish to sell is not priced on gender . I do feel some women are less confident about their work and devalue it more , as I intend to run my own art group as Teresa it will be interesting to see what happens but I don't intend to accept less of a sale figure and wouldn't expect gender to come into the value of others .

I guess historically there are far more famous male artists and it appears their paintings sell for more money but that relates to being more competition for their work .

[Maid_Marion]

I see a difference depending on how I'm gendered on the telephone.
And I remember a difference before I figured what was going on.
But, since it makes no difference in how I get compensated, I think I'll just continue the experiment.

[GracieRose]

I'm not much of an art expert.
However, recently in Taos, while looking through the art shops, the 2 artists whose works resonated with me the most were women.
I am looking at print by one of them on the wall across the room now.

[Kelly DeWinter]

As an Artist, I can say i'm more disappointed that art is worth more after the artist passes away.

[Teresa]

Kelly ,
I'm mostly happy to share it, if I make a little profit that's great but I'm still surprised by the work I have sold .

[Jaylyn]

We have many paintings in our house some from women and some from one wel known print maker from around these parts. My mom painted many of our favorite places when we had the ranch land. Art takes me to places I've never been but the ones mom painted takes me home. Hers is definitely valued more to me than a strangers wether male or female. If I see something in the frame that I can relate to then I could care less what gender painted it. The old farm house on the farm is falling down but it was where I grew up and started this whole thing of CD ( at the time I just knew it felt right but never suspected what the outcome would be). When I look at that painting I now think of many things in my youth. A good piece of art wether painted or sculpted by male or female is valued at what the person looking at it sees not on the gender who painted or sculpted it. Just my opinion.

[Charlotte7]

... There is just a lot of implicit gender bias out there ...

It's called the patriarchy

[Shelly Preston]

The easiest way around the bias is to use initails as in the world of books

JK Rowling

EL James

Many used to use male names to get published in the past.

[Lynn Sealy]

Some interesting findings and observations on gender bias by MTF and FTM

https://code.likeagirl.io/gender-bias-a-transgender-perspective-de27f2cd3837

https://newrepublic.com/article/119239/transgender-people-can-explain-why-women-dont-advance-work

[Tracii G]

Seems like you are following the lets be a victim scenario.
Why do people perpetuate all this anti women stuff.
Women are equal in every sense of the word going by how it is where I live.

[Charlotte7]

And that is how the patriarchy persists, because men refuse to see and accept, but turkeys don't vote for Christmas. I chose my words carefully here and note that this thread is on the Male to Female Crossdressing forum, so this applies to us here. I'll give a little example of how gender bias affects women and here I mean GG women in the TG world. The freemasons, a secretive band of brethren in the UK recently announced that women can become members. The freemasons have forever banned women from being members (sexist in itself some might think). Anyway, in a reversal to this long-standing policy women can now be freemasons. Hurrah! everyone cheers, or do they? Well no. You see, women can only be in the freemasons under two circumstances: if they were a member and have transitioned to female they can remain a remember; if they were born female and have transitioned to male. Women born as women and who remain women are still barred. So, I ask, and this is one example, are women really equal in every sense of the word? I think not.

[DaisyLawrence]

Charlotte, assuming that your description of the Freemasons' new rules is correct, I am shocked and dismayed in equal measure. I also find it hard to believe that it is legal these days, a bit like that Scottish golf club's membership publicity recently.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Is female-made art valued 40% less by men, or by women as well?

I'm intrigued that the Freemasons have accepted F-M and TS females. Good for them. The Freemasons have as much right to choose their membership as any group of women, eg the Women's Institute or any of the dozens of other female-only organisations around the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women%27s_organizations

FWIW I know several Freemasons, and my grandfather and great-grandfather were members. They are no more sinister than the Lions or the Rotary Clubs. They help each other network and they raise a lot of money for various charities. They do not hate women.

I've been sneered at by women as well as men, for expressing femininity. Small mindedness and bigotry are not unique properties of the male sex.

[Mermaiden]

Lynn, great references, thanks for sharing!

[Beverley Sims]

My stocks go up when I look through the women's section of a department store, women seem to dominate those areas.

Men don't rate highly in Victoria's Secret either.

It's just how you look at it. :-)

[docrobbysherry]

I coincidently HAVE passed at a couple of Halloween events for Vanillas! I'll never forget sitting and chatting with the other girls, (all GG'S), while we waited for guys to ask us to dance. (It was a singles costume, dance event).

I watched out of the corner of my eye as the guys paraded by or snuck around eyeing us. I soon felt like a piece of meat! And, when I guy did pick me, I didn't know when I spoke if he'd finish the dance or leave me standing alone in the middle of the floor!:eek:

Being treated as a natal woman can be VERY demeaning!:doh:

[ClosetED]

The bigger question - can society /humans live without any gender differences? We would like to dress any way we wish, but if we were treated the exact same way no matter if male or female, would we still feel dysphoria? We learn when meeting men, most cultures interact one way and when meeting a woman, it is different. Some aspects are need for reproduction, but many others could be eliminated.
Hugs, Ellen

[LilSissyStevie]

I would take these results with a grain of salt. Research studies in the social "sciences" are notoriously unreproducible. Unless the results have been verified by independent studies, preferably more than one, I would consider them no better than superstition. Unfortunately, much of "science" these days starts off with an agenda and the research is tailored to achieve a certain result. In this case, if the research found little or no difference between men and women that would be boring and no one would pay any attention to it. But a 40% difference is shocking (your first clue it's bunk) and gets reported all over the press. Researchers get media stories and interviews which leads to accolades and $$$$ for further research, etc. Be skeptical, especially about "facts."

[Genifer Teal]

Watch the movie "big eyes" about a female artist.

[Robertacd]

Makes me wonder if anyone here has found they are valued/compensated less when dressed as a woman?

Personally, no but...

One chart shows how much more men make than women in 25 major cities (https://www.businessinsider.com/wage-gap-gender-data-top-us-cities-2018-4)

Also: Why does JK Rowling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling) use JK?

Anticipating that the target audience of young boys might not want to read a book written by a woman, her publishers asked that she use two initials rather than her full name.