Perhaps we're going about this in the wrong way. Re: Finding CD friendly women.

[sometimes_miss]

Often, we get into the discussions about where we can find CD / TG friendly women, then the insistence that we all go out en femme in an effort to try to make it seem more normal. Of course, then there is the 'be honest up front' concept, telling our prospective date that we're crossdressers before we ever start dating them, which of course will fail us >99% of the time.
So.....lets attack this problem with the result in mind: Finding and starting a relationship with a woman who is able to accept, if not understand, why we do this.
Those of you who have told us that you're wives or girlfriends are really on board with your crossdressing, lets at least ask them what we should do, where we should go, what we HAVE to do to make this curse understood and bearable for more women to accept us. After all, you know that she's on board with it, herself. What does she think makes her different from all the women who find us such a turn off, or even repulsive? And then how do we inspire that quality in other women? We know that women are generally more nurturing than we are, basically a natural tendency to help others rather than take advantage of them. So perhaps those lucky few, will be willing to enlist your mates, to help us. After all, there are millions of us out here; many are gainfully employed, honest, good men. In all other ways, a 'great catch', as I always hear the girls refer to men who they've caught. So there must be some way to do this. Because I have no other ideas, after pondering this for the past 40 years. With all the single women out there, literally sitting at home eating a pint of ice cream while watching some sad romance, wouldn't at least dating a nice guy who sometimes crossdresses, be better instead of waiting around for Mr alpha male to arrive? After all, no true alpha male would ever let a current boyfriend get in the way if he really wanted a woman, so she has nothing to lose.

Posting personal ads that include being a crossdresser has elicited only half a dozen responses in 20 years now. So the up front and honest thing alone, isn't working.
What can we do to make ourselves more acceptable? (other than winning the lottery, of course, as that's not really a plan).

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Lexi :hugs:, I am going to buy a Mega Million lottery ticket and see how it goes. >orchid ..8:daydreaming:8..

[Rachael Leigh]

Great topic because now that I’m single for the first time in 35 years I don’t want to be dishonest so I know it’s going to
be mostly impossible to find anyone now. But I’m on a dating site and in my profile I’m totally hones about my gender
variance and as you say, no intrest at all. I feel this is now my fate. No hope to have a relationship.

[deebra]

Blue Orchid,

If you win the $250 mil. there will be no shortage of young ladies that all of a sudden love crossdressers, let me correct that, just one crossdresser...YOU!!!

[Kelly DeWinter]

It's all in the details, advertising a personal ad that includes "Potential multi-million dollar dollar ticket holder, Looking for someone who likes to shop for house in the Hampton's, Test drive expensive cars and expand my Donna Karen wardrobe a must"

[Rayleen]

I rather stay single like Rachael , kind of enjoying this for the last while.

[Asew]

My wife and I made Tinder accounts just to see what the big deal was (we have since deleted the app). At first I had male pics, got a few matches. Then I decided to switch my pictures to those of me dressed and lost all my matches and never got another match. The dating pool seems rough for an honest up-front CDer.

[t-girlxsophie]

I guess I'm in the minority that got lucky meeting a supportive and understanding partner.Met my wife on a chat site,It wasnt really a hook up site we just got chatting and my user name made it clear what I was.Others took great pleasure in telling us it wouldn't work yet 12 years later were still together

I honestly don't know the secret to finding an understanding partner,If I did I would be a millionaire and spreading the word

Sophie

[KatrinaK]

I definitely don't have a magic pill for you here Lexi, but I'll take you up on your offer and share the insights on the subject that I've learned from my wife, filtered through my own perspective.

My wife is about as accepting as you can get, but she definitely doesn't jump up and down in excitement about it. It has however been a turn on for her at several points, though that's the exception to the rule.

Couple of facts: my wife is a tomboy (an extremely feminine boho chic tomboy, but a tomboy,) and almost certainly bisexual. I think those two facts help tremendously. She brings the fact that she's always had strong tomboy inclinations up in with our gender therapist regularly as she explains that she tries to understand what I'm going though.

Here's the crux: my wife has talked time and time again about "owning it." For instance: my wife enjoys us getting manicures together. But when we went out in public the first time and I was afraid of people seeing my painted fingernails.... MAJOR turnoff. Now that I'm not insecure about my painted fingernails... TURN ON. What I've learned from that is that any insecurities or lack of self-acceptance you have will be amplified 10x in your SO because it's not their burden to bear. Same thing happened with shaving my legs. She only was ever turned off by my insecurities about what other people would think of me.

What I'm about to say next isn't going to be particularly popular, but it's very much the deep emotional side of OWNING IT. (those are her words not mine for how to stay married to her as a CD)

Owning it is more than being comfortable dressing around her or going out in public with nail polish on my fingers. Owning it means having a mature emotional conversation with both yourself and her. I STRONGLY believe that crossdressing isn't a habit we pick up or a choice that we make. The urge to present as the opposite sex is borne from some degree of non-conforming gender identity or gender dysphoria. AND THAT'S OKAY. For me, it's mild, and expressing as a little genderfluid most of the time and fully bi-gender twice a month is enough. I have it good on the spectrum, but I'll admit that I'm on it. And in doing so, I can have a very serious, mature, conversation with my wife about that. We don't discuss crossdressing. We discuss my gender expression needs. It takes the kink out of it. If I had told me wife that I like to dress up as a woman without telling her that there are deep seeded reasons why I HAVE to do it, she would have left me already. Without a doubt.... because it's only telling her half the story and she's smart enough to see through that.

I personally believe that most of us full-presentation crossdressers have some "owning it" to do when it comes to admitting, at least to ourselves, WHY we do it. And if we can't even admit to ourselves WHY we do it, how are we supposed to have a mature, transparent and honest discussion befitting the dignity of an intimate relationship with our SOs? Women are incredibly emotionally intelligent and empathetic creatures, and they can see through that in a heartbeat.

My point is that it's a lot easier to have a mature conversation about gender identity than it is to have one about "dressing up."

And Asew, I challenge you to put those pics back up as a non-binary or genderfluid looking for a woman. If you left yourself as a straight male, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

[Dutchess]

For one I have always liked VERY androgynous guys that wear slight make up all the time and probably pants their nails . You know , Marc Bolan , David B , Even Rick Savage of Def Lep wears a lot of pink things in fancy fabric .
Don't like Alphas at all , which probably sent me down this road in the first place .
What I would need to know up FRONT is
The truth
How deep is this/ how much is involved ( for my own knowledge)
Do you actually think you are a woman ( I am straight so that would not work . I can't deal with transition so its better to know that NOW )
Or do you like women fine and this is something you do that you just like, feel better in, find is pretty etc .

I have hoe'd very hard roads with 2 CD'ers and I would have to know these things straight up . They were not honest with THEMSELVES. I am not a mind reader . of course the one you all know best did not tell me for 3 years after we were married until I caught him , fancied himself as a 20 yr old Brazilian trans porn star = Nightmare for Dutchess.

The other I adored but he wanted to be a woman even though he SO was not . It was the fakest thing I have ever seen - he talked like a baby doll when en femme . He'd been brutally manhandled my his overbearing MAN of a mom and a neighbor man that attacked him repeatedly in his teens and his was a very confused person - without a job . He died indirectly due to a heart attack from self administered hormones with no Dr supervision and yes there are many articles about that . Everywhere .

Just be honest about everything , please, and yes you will get primarily answers from men who want to take a walk on the wild side . It drove my fetish cd'er crazy

[Maid_Marion]

Yes, women need to talk about the truth. If they know about it the both of you can deal with it. If you hide it and they find out they will wonder what else you are hiding.

In my case I like women but like women's clothes because they just happen to fit my size 2 figure perfectly!
A total 180 from the struggles to find age appropriate men's clothing that fits. If you are too small for 36S suit you are screwed!

[sweetdreams]

Katrina, I agree.

I half-heartedly (tongue in cheek) threw out a motto a while ago but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense:

Own it - meaning be willing to tell the world this is what you feel (being feminine). This is who I am and what I like to do occasionally. I like presenting as female in feminine clothes, fabrics, and colors. It's a part of me that needs expression. At times it oozes out of me. Like a moth to a flame. Irresistible.
Do it - dress up and be feminine.
Be it - go about your business as you feel the need. Have you ever watched GGs stroll through the mall. Eyes straight ahead, focused, and doing what they need to do with little concern for what others think - no apologies. Emulate that.


When ever I've gone out in public like a mall, if I felt out of place like I shouldn't be there doing what I'm doing I've had a few odd looks. If I go out with confidence with no apologies, I rarely get a second look.

[Anne E]

Hi Katrina,

Thank you. I'll have to read that several more times, but I believe it's key.

Best,
Anne

[AngelaYVR]

It’s not like there are identifiable pockets of them in certain geographical areas.
I’ve found several who have views ranging anywhere from tolerant to drag you home and come to momma.

I found them by dressing up stylishly (women adore well put together outfits) and being out there. Eventually you catch their eye or they are bold and make the first move. It’s all for nought to me, in a relationship with a woman who accepts me as I am.

But there are available women out there who want confident, glamourous dressers. As one female friend told me “it’s kind of erotic”.

[Charlotte7]

The first thing for me to say is that you've got to be very, very lucky to find a partner, who not just accepts but embraces and enjoys us as we are. I have such a partner and consider myself to be incredibly fortunate. I grew up in the 70s before the internet and before social media. I'm sure that many here grew up at the same time. It was a time when the only exposure you got to cross dressing were the likes of Danny La Rue, Dick Emery and the like. It was a lonely world for someone who found that they were unstoppably compelled to wear their mother's clothes. But, I never felt that I was the only one doing this. I reasoned that there must be others out there doing it. I didn't know any, but I had to believe that there were. Then, as I got older the hormones kicked in and I started to have an interest in the opposite sex. I knew that at some point I wanted to meet someone, settle down and have a family life. It was important to me. And yet, I had this terrible secret. I knew that I wanted to dress and that I would always want to dress. The two things seemed incompatible, and to a large extent they may be, but, I had this massive belief inside of me, that, just as there are more people than me who dress, then there must be women out there who like it. OK, I accept that such a thought could be born out of the ignorance of youth, but I had never had a setback to counter this belief and so I held on to it, deeply and with conviction.

I suppose what I am saying here in a different way, was, as has been said above, I owned my situation. I made myself understand who I was, what I did, and just as importantly, why I did it. When I was away at college I used the college library and read every single book and paper I could find on the subject. I also made it my responsibility to find an accepting partner. For me, it wasn't a case of meeting a partner and moving on from there, I had to try to stack the odds in my favour. Again the ignorance of youth, how was I to know that the odds were stacked up against me so monumentally? I was however, prepared to fail even though I knew this would mean a lifetime of loneliness, as I knew that my dressing was that important to me.

And so I started dating. I knew the endpoint that I wanted and so had to construct my dating around that. I didn't form any relationships with people who I didn't think would be able to accept my dressing and only looked at those who I thought might be favourable. On the page this is coming out a bit harder and a bit colder than it was, but maybe that is how it was. I had one relationship that was heading along quite nicely but when I asked myself, the can I tell this person question, the answer came back, no, and so I ended it, gently and gracefully, but it didn't go further.

And then I met my soulmate. And I mean my soulmate, now of over 30 years. And it became very evident from very early on that she would be accepting. This was helped by her saying things like "One of the problems I had with my former partner was that I wanted him to wear a dress and he wouldn't" or "I had a dream last night and you were wearing a skirt",
"How did I look?"
"Lovely"

So, to be fair I felt that I was on fairly safe ground when I told her that I liked to cross dress. But the night I told her, I told her everything, there and then, I 'owned' it. I told her the full how and more importantly the why. I left no stone unturned, I left her no room for questions, but I had mentally prepared for this moment for many years, I had a plan and I stuck to it. And after we'd spoken for a couple of hours in the gathering September gloom, we went back and she gave me a skirt and a bra.

As Katrina has said above, that really is the most important thing in all of this, you have to know yourself the what, and most importantly, the why and where you want it to go. And you have to be open, incredibly open, mostly to yourself, and that can be very hard, because the easiest person to lie to, is yourself, and if you can lie to yourself, then lying to a partner, well, that's easy. So, if the opportunity to form a new relationship is still open to you, you may have to be prepared to both move on and to accept failure and loneliness, but it can happen, just work it all out in your own mind first. Nobody said that any of this is easy.

I know that the pool of accepting women is incredibly small and I thank my lucky stars every single day that when I jumped from 50,000 feet with no parachute strapped to my back, I was lucky enough, by some fluke to land right in the middle of it.

And I suppose the sad thing is that there is nothing that we can do to change someone's mind about cross dressing. In the same way that we can't stop doing it, we can't make someone like it. I think that change can happen only in the longer term, in that there is a generation growing up now that has more knowledge and exposure to TG issues than when I was growing up. Society as a whole is shifting, GG are growing up knowing that we exist and that we're not monsters and so over time things (I hope) will change. It's just sad that many have to pay the price for the dark times in which we were raised.

[alwayshave]

I have told this story before, before moving in with my now wife, I wrote her a letter and revealed that I had been a lifetime crossdresser and that was not going to change or stop. I laid out when I started, its evolution and where I was then. I answered the are you gay/bi-sexual questions. Did I want to transition. She went away for a couple of days, did research on crossdressing and came back and said OK I can do this. She has a background in psychology, so I think she was more willing to believe the statistics that most crossdresser aren't gay, etc. In that way I have been lucky. So I owned it early and haven't backed off.

[LaurenS]

That’s funny!!! Can I use it?!?!

- - - Updated - - -

SUPERB idea!

- - - Updated - - -

Those points, especially the self-honesty, are important. It was a LONG time before I was not guilty/ashamed, so I couldn’t understand the issues myself. Certainly a risk for any partner interested in having a drama-free, foundationally strong relationship. I suspect that to be the norm, rather than the exception, unfortunately.

I mean can one imagine how hard it would be to find a hetero crossdresser that understands precisely where they are on the tg spectrum, is comfortable and honest about that, AND has no other mental or emotional issues?!? Oh, and is otherwise an upstanding citizen?

Say it with me now: Unicorn

I don’t think that cders are any more likely to have mental issues, so don’t make that assumption to my hypothesis. I’m just saying that it is probably hard for a woman to find a non-cder without some sort of issue - manageable or not - then adding cding to it just seems like a checklist for a very rare individual.

Speaking for myself, it all seems so clear now. Decided that a relationship is not worth the risk for me (on the “revealing part) and am happy having girl friends, not girlfriends, if you know what I mean.

Great points, Dutches.

- - - Updated - - -

GREAT points, Katrina.

This post has hit the nail on the head. (Or at least it did for me, as I don’t comment much much, but especially this much on a single post.)

The OP points about finding out precisely the feelings of ggs is spot on. CDing is by its very nature a selfish (for lack of a better word - or thesaurus) activity.

Dutchess nails it to.

- - - Updated - - -

Aarrgghh.

the forum somehow assumed that my 3 separate response should be combined together.

anyways, this is a great topic and hope other ggs chime in.

[Karen's Secret]

I think the simple reality is that virtually all women would not choose a partner who crossdresses. I think even most women who are in an accepting relationship with a crossdresser would, if being honest, still prefer their partner not be a crossdresser.

[Beverley Sims]

First of all find a partner that you love, all the better if she loves you too, I really think that is a must.

If she agrees with your dressing you have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[Jaylyn]

I see only one problem with being up front before they get to know you. When you tell them you are a CD they can conjure up all sorts of deviate things that are wrong. We are not wrong we are no different than a normal guy that like soft things against his skin.
I say this because while growing up I was the alpha male on the football team, ( had the oppurtunity to play college ball but blew it when I didn't want to follow the coaches rules)!the dare devil, even rode bulls and broncs in rodeos for a while.
I had many girl friends because they like a beer drinking sweet talking cowboy who can also play a guitar and sing love ballads. I thought I had the world by the tail. I worked after losing my scholarship in the police field and put horse shoes on horses as a side job, and I was having fun doing what I wanted to do.
Growing up I also had that hidden ( except from mom because she was ok with it ) desire to wear soft clothes that made me feel tender and pretty in. Loved the silks, hose, and loved trying to walk around in moms high heels. I always wanted lipstick and red fingernails, but the farm boys that were my gang would have beat me to a pulp if they all knew, thus the secret stayed inside me.
I finally found the love of my life, got married, a steady job, and started raising a family. I still had that desire to dress and did in my wife's things then while she was at work. She caught me one day and said she knew I had been in her makeup. She wasn't mad but supported me but I had to promise the kids were to never know.
They are all married now and live a distance away from us and so I told her I wanted to start dressing again. She started helping me and even thought it was fun buying Jaylyn gifts of hose makeup and even Christmas gowns that matched hers. When she got into her sixties she suddenly stop thinking it was ok. I quit doing it in front of her. I felt I was back to square one and that's were we still are I'm dressing when the urge hits when she is away. She is working because she grew tired of sitting at the house. I get to dress and I think ( I'm pretty sure ) she knows. So I'm in a DADT thing again. The opposite sex are just hard to figure out. One thing we should all know by now. You might be sitting all prettied up one day and the next day day they just say I've had enough.
What I'm trying to say in a long way is even Alpha males get lost when a GG is involved. My wife proved she was very accepting even helping me with makeup and playing dress up with me to a complete cold turkey stop.
With all this even if you find a GG that is accepting it can all blow up in a heart beat.

[docrobbysherry]

If u think dressing is a choice, THEN u can be confounded by women not being attracted to trans!:thumbsup:

Maybe u can try quitting to be with a woman? But, u either can't for long or u think about dressing constantly when u stop!:doh:
Why would u think women r any different? They r attracted to who they r attracted to, period! It's NOT a choice. :straightface:

Straight women r attracted to men. Not men in dresses!:brolleyes:

Maybe u can find a gay woman who is attracted to u dressed? But then what? U don't have the rite parts!:o

Don't over think it. Lots of women r cool with trans. But, NOT to date! If u find a woman who is attracted to u dressed? You've found a unicorn!:D

[Happygirl!]

KatrinaK,
Great post. We must have that conversation with ourselves first. I'm still trying to understand my need to dress and where my gender/sexuality fits into all this. And I hate the binary view that most of society subscribes to. My wife has accepted my CD side and we have talked about how we are forced to fit in certain pre-defined gender/sexuality roles. But I think we need to further explore where all this is going for us.
Happygirl

[Aunt Kelly]

The advice to come out to a woman "even before you start dating" is bad advice (and something I have never actually seen here). Here's why...
Relationships don't just happen. They are built, over time. Were you to reveal such a personal thing at that point, you're setting conditions on the progress of the relationship before it's even started; "This is something you're going to have to accept about me...", is the the implicit message. While it is admirably frank, there's no way that this message can be interpreted as not self centered, and it's likely to torpedo the relationship before it starts. If one waits, on the other hand, for the relationship to mature to the point where it is clear to both parties that they are on the path to something deeper, "The Talk" can be honestly presented as something done because you value the relationship and don't want it tainted by deception.

[t-girlxsophie]

My wife and I have a loving relationship,we always talk through any problems either of us may have,she was aware right away that I was a Crossdresser,but it was at least 4 month into our going out that she saw Sophie for the first time.If it was to have went badly at that point I'm pretty sure we would have solved any problems.But her acceptance and support has meant so very much to me we have been married 10 years and together 12

I always take her feelings into consideration,And would never dream of taking advantage.I know by reading some posts here theres scepticism But Please believe it can work

Sophie

[KatrinaK]

One point I want to add is that I didn't advocate coming out to your SO before you get to know them. It has to be the right time and place, and you need to feel out the situation to make sure that there's even a remote chance that it will go well. There are certain things in life that not appropriate or required to advertise on the first date. This is one of them. It's a deeply private and personal trait that should be shared at the right moment. When that is is up to you to determine based on the nuances of your own relationship. The only thing that I know for certain is that the right moment is BEFORE marriage. Once my wife and I got engaged I felt that it was the time to tell her. So I did. I probably should have earlier, and she'll agree with that. She feels that the process would have been much easier on her if I had, and she assures me that she would have stayed in the relationship.

My point about being upfront on dating sites stands though. If you list yourself as a Hetero Male and then put pics of you in a dress with full makeup, it's not going to fly... primarily because you're not going to end up in the right women's searches. There's 31 flavors of gender on those sites (for a reason) and if you're serious about reaching the right women, you need to be candid.

Thanks for all the support on the concept of "owning it," my wife will be pleased to hear that has resonated with the community.

[DaisyLawrence]

I always take her feelings into consideration,And would never dream of taking advantage.I know by reading some posts here theres scepticism But Please believe it can work

Absolutely, it most definately can :)

[LilSissyStevie]

The way this issue is framed is all wrong, I think. The question shouldn't be "what can GGs do for me?" Instead, ask yourself what is it that you bring to the table? What does she get out of you being a crossdresser? The most likely answer is - nothing. In fact, you being a CD is probably going to be a liability. My wife's attitude toward my fetish runs from enthusiastic participation to mild irritation. But I know that she would have never sought someone like me out unless I had other qualities she favored. Overall, I've been a big disappointment to her sexually. I indulge her weirdnesses and she, mine but its often a chore for both of us. At least I don't suffer from gender dysphoria other than sexually or she would have been gone long ago.

Sometimes, I think that if I had it all to do over, I would have GG friends to hang out with and do stuff with but I'd leave the sex out of it. I wouldn't get married or even cohabitate and I would have gotten a vasectomy as soon as I was able. I love my children but being a father in this world has just been one long heartbreak. I think for the young CD that has to be something they seriously consider. Don't waste your life looking for unicorns. Do something productive. If a unicorn happens to find you, great. But don't expect it.

[Jean. Ann]

I guess I am different , but I really absolutely. have
no interest or desire be become romantically involved with
an Unaccepting woman on a romantic level .
I personally don't want a relationship built on lies
or half truth . To
me CD is about more than cloths is is about
thoughts , feelings , desires , a state of being .
I do not want her to lie to me, so will not
lie to her.
I guess if it comes to that , I had rather
be alone and unhappy than in a relationship
with one or both miserable .
So I look around for accepting Ladies
The dress shop the mall the grocery store .
Become friends first. You may find better
Educated Ladies far more accepting .
And realize that what we do is not bad
If you are pride of yourself you will attract others
There is someone out there for you if
You look hard enough

Jean. Ann

[KristinaK]

When I was dating before my wife and I met, I had mostly drab clothing photos but one of me from halloween dressed up. It wasn’t until years later that I had the urge to dress up outside of the holiday. It also helps that most of my matches on that site were bisexual women.

[Shayla]

Great advice here! I will work toward "owning it". Confidence is attractive, no matter what the packaging.

When it comes to new relationships, everyone has 'issues', and I think by working to improve myself to the point that CD-ing is just one 'issue' with the relationship, and there are very few others, then a GG would be more likely to accept it, assuming that went with honesty and consideration, and a clear understanding of what CD-ing means to both parties.

For those who do not have an understanding spouse, meeting with a good gender counselor helped both my wife and I gain a lot of understanding. It did not improve her overall feelings about it, but at least she understood it more, which made things easier for a while. I could see a situation where if I hit a point where I had a good relationship and told my new girlfriend about my gender dysphoria, I would also suggest we see a counselor together if she has trepidations about continuing the relationship.

[char GG]

I've seen many CDers in my husband's Crossdressing social group (this was not a TS group). Many were open about secretly hiding things from their SO's, (clothes, of course), places they went, some were having affairs with women and/or men. One even had an apartment in another town so he could "do his thing". Many didn't not want to do things such as vacations, unless they could do it dressed. One had to have a new dress for every outing (and the outings included Friday and Saturday every weekend).

I came away with the opinion that it's not "the clothes", it's the behavior that causes previously accepting SO's to become disenchanted and tired of CDing. Dutchess touched on that issue also.

GG's just don't get excited about underwear, going through drive-thru's wearing a dress, getting their pictures taken, sitting dressed up including heels around the house, or taking the garbage out in a skirt. Most make sure their dresses are not showing too much leg when a truck goes by. The things that many CDers seem to enjoy are just boring and commonplace to many GG's.

There are obviously couples who enjoy each other's attributes. My guess is that they have full and interesting lives beyond CDing.

I agree that order for a partner to understand you, you must understand yourself.

[Jean. Ann]

Some great posts here :
I think in a way the same rules apply
as any relationship .
I think sometimes we are not giving women credit for
Their ability to understand and accept .
It is all to easy to blame lack of success on CDing
The women are out there , if you want a relationship
You have to get out there . Go to that bar Social Group etc
Dressed . Meet the GG there become friends with couples
Many GG love to fix their girlfriends
up with nice men
When people know you are a nice guy
who likes and somewhat understands
women it will become much easier

Jean. Ann

[Cassandra Lynn]

Yep, what Katrina, Dutchess and Aunt Kelly said.

I went the route of dating sites and the odds are just not good, which makes sense when you think about Kelly's point.
In other words, unless their looking for one of us (and it's just not possible to fully explain what that is in a dating site profile), then they'll see the profile, say no thanx and move on.
Same for potential relationships not began from dating sites; my opinion on the right time to spill the beans is before any type of commitment that includes engagement, marriage or even living together.

I made that promise to myself long ago and told my last LTR partner after we had established that we we're a couple, she accepted it and for the most part handled it well enough, but after 2 years of living together my other issues destroyed the union.

Since I migrated into this state of being known as non-binary and present as a mix of genders, advertising and searching online became redundant and unnecessary. I get the occasional fully accepting interest from random women, but it's just that, they aren't looking to date.
What's also relevant and nice about my home on the gender spectrum, is that I do indeed own who I am, and that confidence is, as has been thoroughly noted already, most important. You can be sure i'd not get that open interest from ladies, I don't know already, if I wasn't comfortable in my presentation.

Which brings me to the present and one last point. I have recently gotten to know a 30 yr old, lovely (inside and out) young woman, and even though we haven't had a talk about me and why I look as I do, she is one of those truly open-minded types. We were in a group of peeps just hanging out and chatting and she got my attention and covertly made a little hand gesture to me indicating I had something on my face.
I excused myself, took a peek in a mirror and some of my mascara had flaked off and was smudged on my cheek under my eye; I think she obviously would just have reached up and took care of it or said something outright if I had been any female.

I am sensing she might have some feelings for me, but given the rather large age gap (I have 25 yrs on her) and other circumstances i'm just treating her as any other friend...…...for now.

The main point to that, and one that relates to the whole topic overall, but also something that will prolly not affect any of us on this forum (unless your 18 to 25) is that times are changing and there will come a time, someday (could be 50 yrs) that we will see more acceptance.
With that acceptance there will be more open dating between cis-genders and transgenders.

Cass

[Di]

For one I
Don't like Alphas at all , which probably sent me down this road in the first place .
What I would need to know up FRONT is
The truth
How deep is this/ how much is involved ( for my own knowledge)
Do you actually think you are a woman ( I am straight so that would not work . I can't deal with transition so its better to know that NOW )
Or do you like women fine and this is something you do that you just like, feel better in, find is pretty etc .

Just be honest about everything , please, and yes you will get primarily answers from men who want to take a walk on the wild side . It drove my fetish cd'er crazy


I've seen many CDers

I came away with the opinion that it's not "the clothes", it's the behavior that causes previously accepting SO's to become disenchanted and tired of CDing. Dutchess touched on that issue also.

GG's just don't get excited about underwear, going through drive-thru's wearing a dress, getting their pictures taken, sitting dressed up including heels around the house, or taking the garbage out in a skirt. Most make sure their dresses are not showing too much leg when a truck goes by. The things that many CDers seem to enjoy are just boring and commonplace to many GG's.

There are obviously couples who enjoy each other's attributes. My guess is that they have full and interesting lives beyond CDing.

I agree that order for a partner to understand you, you must understand yourself.

I agree with Dutchess and Char understand yourself and be honest .
So many are told this and that and then more comes out then more where if a GG wants to support and be in a relationship they start to think / what is the truth? What else are they hiding?
I was very lucky - knew from the beginning, met here, met Sherlyn first and grew together. I made it clear we had to be on the same page as we were.:)

[Judy-Somthing]

Well my wife is so unaccepting and today she went on for over an hour of yelling and anger about how I've ruined her life by not telling her 35 years ago when we got married.
Said she would have never married me.
Seems like she totally forgets all the good years. Now she says when she looks at me she only sees an old man in a dress.

I don't dare say all the things I don't like about her. That would just make matters worse. (Yes Dear)

It's sad but I think I'm on the road to devoice!

Wow now she just hugged me, I guess I have no clue about women.

[Charlotte7]

Katrina, you're absolutely correct and it worked for me.

[sharpestcookie]

Well, I'm single, but hopefully I can add some insight here as a straight GG who is actively seeking a CD partner.
(I am not attracted to transwomen, and I do in fact know the difference, docrobbysherry)

----------

What does she think makes her different from all the women who find us such a turn off, or even repulsive?

When it came to relationships, I gradually decided to go after what I wanted instead of what society was telling me I should want, and here I am. I am more comfortable with openly unconventional people, and I allowed myself to consider an unconventional relationship as a possibility. Then came research, research, and more research!

----------

And then how do we inspire that quality in other women?

Although it sucks, I don't think you can. It's up to us GGs to talk to each other and open each other's minds to different options. It's similar to how guys tend to change other guys' minds when it comes to treating women better, or how white people tend to change each other's minds when it comes to treating minorities better. It's stupid, but true. People listen to those who are most like themselves. We are bombarded with images of what makes a "real man" on a constant basis, and crossdressing is a subject that practically never comes up except as a joke. It's an uphill climb, and there aren't many of us ready or willing to make the hike and educate each other.

Since I'm a dominant (potential nopenopenope #1 for a partner), I run into a similar problem on the kink side of things. Female dominants don't take well to crossdressers at all, but I try to convey how most crossdressers aren't automatically into humiliation/degradation/sissification or as "deserving" of punishment as social conditioning has taught us and them that they are. It's not always a fetish; crossdressing can also be a part of their identity, and can come from a positive place. The downside is that there are a LOT of subs who DO want to be humiliated, so it feeds into the misconceptions.

My career is a web series where I review gay romances (potential nopenopenope #2); I regularly include books about gay CDs that are positive portrayals, roast the bad books, and talk about crossdressing. I also repeatedly explain how contrary to these books and popular belief, most of you are straight, so we should assume you are and just like to look pretty ;)

-----------

With all the single women out there, literally sitting at home eating a pint of ice cream while watching some sad romance, wouldn't at least dating a nice guy who sometimes crossdresses, be better instead of waiting around for Mr alpha male to arrive?

You'd think so, but no. Those sad romances only feature ultra-fit, hot, rich, alpha males and every time they watch one it further reinforces the "someday my ultra-fit, hot, rich, alpha male prince will come" mentality. A vicious cycle, to be sure, but these women have to be exposed to different relationship possibilities, and at a time in their lives when they're still open to change - so young and/or clearly open-minded women.
(and I will have you know that when I watch sad romances, I eat protein bars - so there :p)

----------

What can we do to make ourselves more acceptable?

For some, the only thing you can do to make yourself more acceptable is to not be a crossdresser. Those are the women you don't want, by the way. They'll either always be on their way out or trying to change you at a character-deep level, which is impossible and won't lead anywhere good.

You will have better chances with someone who knows about you guys and is not only okay with it, but enthusiastically supports you. That level of interest rarely wanes over time, but we're really hard to find. I actually don't know of anyone else.

In the meantime:
Focus on being an honest, confident person - guys who focus on physical, emotional, and intellectual self-improvement are always hot
Have diverse interests - it shows that crossdressing doesn't consume you, which can be seen as a negative if that's all you have to talk about
Be as outwardly proud of who you are as you are on the inside - I agree with KatrinaK and sweetdreams on this one
Show you can commit time to a relationship - if you're always busy, what's the point?

If you win the lottery, she'd only be around long enough to spend all of your money...then you'd be back at square one lol

----------

By the way, I've looked on dating sites under het/bi/pan males, androgynous/genderfluid males, etc. and there just aren't that many of you out there within my search parameters :(

[Teresa]

Lexi,
Maybe you're overthinking it in a negative way , I don't consider it a curse , certainly not now I'm finally enjoying what dressing can do for me . As for finding an approving lady if you find an opening ask the question .

Recently when in a shop a comment was made about now having a nice outfit what about going for a drink , so I went back and asked if the offer was genuine , she said it was so we exchanged phone numbers . I'm not pushing it , she said she will contact me again when it is convenient .

The annoying or sad part is my wife would often say if I found another partner she knew how to put them off , well I don't have that problem because I was dressed when my conversation took place .

To add to the GGs comments from Char and Di , I'm just looking to go out with a female companion , I understand their comments about going OTT, when most women treat it all as everyday and possibly boring . I've now lived alone for just over six months and know I still have a lot to offer , I've had to come to terms with everyday so I understand the excesses women will dislike in a short time .

I'm sorry to have to repeat this but the honesty talked about often appears to be one sided , we have a guilty secret which ashamedly have to admit to ! Sorry we are wired differently so there is no shame to attach to it , I also wish my wife had been more honest with me before we married . Why is it mostly the case our wives try and change us when ( with or without the dressing issue ) we just go along and accept our wives . I feel I'm just emerging from a dark storm cloud and seeing daylight for the first time .

[susan54]

I take the side of those who just find someone nice and then go for it. Going more than a couple of months without telling is unreasonable. There is a problem for all men in that women start out with unrealistic expectations of men. Mr Darcy and Heathcliff do not wear dresses. As they get older woken become more aware of the male qualities that are important. Those of us who care about others should be OK there.

I agree that some CD behaviour is stranger than the crossdressing itself. And revealing crossdressing (or being found out) after years of partnership WILL be viewed as dishonesty). I don't have the lingerie obsession or a female identity (despite the name used here - it is just a convenient term) and the only clothing I wear that a woman would not is a slip. The behaviour that would make a woman think twice about me is the number of women's clothes I have which is WAY more than most women. Other than that I want to look good in my outfits rather than pretend I am a woman and when I am pretending I never lose sight of that - I am just acting - my real self is always male. I have had partners who could not take the crossdressing and others who didn't like it but tolerated it because they liked other aspects of me. One of the things women like about me is my voice and in public that is incompatible with a female appearance and I could understand if a partner objected to me attempting to speak in a higher register. What we also have to consider is that women sometimes perceive their own status as related to the status of their partner, and if that partner is a high achiever she really will not want to be known to her social circle as that poor woman whose partner wears women's clothes. I am NOT saying that a woman's status should be related to her partner's - just that in the real world this perception exists even among women.

I may not be the best qualified to comment as I am currently single but I believe the best way to find a supportive partner is simply to find a partner and be a good, considerate and appreciative partner yourself.

[donnalee]

I must be unusual; as my partner of 43 years had no problem with it (she was Japanese, a country whose traditional clothing was pretty much unisex). After her death in 2011 and after a couple of years of mourning, I tried on-line dating without much success. In 2015 I fell in love with another woman who I met in a more conventional manner; things went very quickly and she agreed to move in with me. In the interest of honesty I also told her I crossdressed..She said that turned her on! Unfortunately, the relationship only lasted 2 months due to other issues.

[fun4metoo2004]

It doesn't matter if you are a crossdresser or not. it is difficult these days to just plain date period. My history has been, the ones I like are all married or taken. The others are so messed up from failed relationships that it is most times not worth the effort you have to put into it.

I myself have been divorced for 20 years. Sure the first 5-10 years I had to deal with raising my kid, and working at a job that was for several years 80 hours or more, so left little time or energy to want to do much more than spend time with my kid. Add to that My Mother lived with use until she passed. It just takes the energy out of all of it.

Now, I am 58, and find myself not overly concerned with dating any longer. That is not to say that I would turn a date down from a nice lady. I just and not willing to hang shingle so to speak and try. Too many disappointments.

So, I take care of me. My dogs, and cats. Spend quality time with my kid who is now almost 30.

I know it sounds sad. This is my life and I guess I have to own it!

[Ressie]

Getting the truth out right away may not be working but at least it's a way of weeding out GGs that won't go for it. Here's my idea of finding a GF that will accept CDing:

Any time you go shopping for women's clothes, (en fem or male mode) there may be opportunities to chat with women that are also shopping. Be friendly, charming and let them know that you're a CD. This is more promising than running an ad in a dating service site IMHO. These women will see the real you in real life! If they aren't interested (or unavailable as in married) you could ask them if they know any single women that would go out with a CD. Any takers?

[phili]

IMO when looking for friends and partners we are scanning the people we see, wherever we are, and putting together a sense of how it might all work from all the clues visible. We know that generally people are also not showing anything they are not proud of,but those things are there to be ferreted out in lunch, dating, etc.

Now discovering that even telling my wife to be was not enough to really help her understand what it meant to her, I'm strongly in support of just crossdressing in public or talking about it like any other hobby that is important to you, so that it is clearly part of the package. Then women who are not sure will have time to judge how big a deal it really is to them.

I believe, just like any of us would prioritize issues with mates, that a woman looking for a mate will still pick us if all our personal characteristics are sufficiently attractive to her and she is not tied to convention so much that she can picture herself saying 'my SO is the most wonderful person, and one of the interesting/quirky/unresolved things about him is that he is a cd.'

That was what happened with my girlfriends in hs and college. Just didn't work with my wife because she picked me first without knowing, and at that point I just told her and didn't show her, and was overconfident that it was going to be fine.

[Tracii G]

Back to the original posting by SM good luck wit that.
In theory all the the suggestions made could work possibly but the chances of a CDing man actually having the guts to implement the theories is slim to none because most are deep in the closet.

[Jenny22]

Consider this dating site: https://www.disabledmate.com/search.py?aff_id=google&aff_pg=3&aff_cp=g-c&aff_src=-&aff_adg=disabled+mate+-+us+-+handicapped+-+computers+-+handicapped+dating+site+-+search+_362267_aid:35029609345_cid:689558283&aff_kw=%2Bhandicapped%20%2Bdating%20%2Bsite&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlqLdBRCKARIsAPxTGaW4uF2A3mjKHf4fxddC zUjXSJyN97DkSMeHpusEdp_9T_nBuc2KL6IaAhAdEALw_wcB

There may well be the one you seek, here.

[fashionisto]

Dating sites suck and lead people to dismiss potential mates all too easily for shallow reasons. Meet people in real life instead, which would be my advice for anyone who wants to meet a potential mate.

My experience is that a lot of women are attracted to good looking crossdressers, many of them don't know they are until they meet one :-) A lot of women also appreciate good fashion style. So, I go out crossdressed to meet people, but I make damn well sure it looks good. I think it also has the advantage of weeding out people I don't like: like close-minded people, women who like masculine men, or women who expect men to fit into a stereotypical male role.

Confidence seems to be a big thing too. I've met a lot of crossdressers and transgenders who are *very* shy, as in social phobia shy. I was very shy when I started crossdressing but got bolder with a lot of exposure therapy. I went from buying clothes on the internet to showing off dresses to the store attendants (and having all the customers gawk at me), from nervously standing by the door all dressed up but never daring to go out to walking through busy streets dressed like a drag queen.

Further, people know very little about crossdressing and there may be a lot of questions and misunderstandings. Like: you must be gay or you are transitioning to female. It's complex material, and people can't even figure out themselves, let alone others. For me, it sort of clicked when I started calling myself drag queen. This is what I communicate upfront. And not just with words. I dress over the top flamboyantly. I go to venues where people expect others to dress up for fun. I add a funny detail that communicates the dressing is for fun (even if not "just" for fun). Even just putting on a big smile helps! Generally, do whatever works for you personally, but be clear about what potential mates can expect from you.

[LaurenS]

Thanks for your forthrightness! Great points.

[Rhonda Jean]

Here's the crux: my wife has talked time and time again about "owning it." For instance: my wife enjoys us getting manicures together. But when we went out in public the first time and I was afraid of people seeing my painted fingernails.... MAJOR turnoff. Now that I'm not insecure about my painted fingernails... TURN ON. What I've learned from that is that any insecurities or lack of self-acceptance you have will be amplified 10x in your SO because it's not their burden to bear. Same thing happened with shaving my legs. She only was ever turned off by my insecurities about what other people would think of me.

This is an important point! I wouldn't have been able to put it so succinctly, but I've experienced it. I STILL struggle with it, actually. I'm absolutely comfortable, solo. In public with the woman I dated for a long time... totally different. Taking your example of getting our nails done... I've done this alone for decades. I have no insecurity about it alone. I LOVED us getting our nails done together and loved the fact that she was so comfortable with me being "out there" like that. It was astonishing to me how she just didn't care. She didn't care where we went, who we ran into, what the reaction was. I was awesome! I was the one lagging behind in this, and she did not get it, and it took away from her enjoyment of it all. It was the same with the purse in male mode. She bought me the first purse I carried in male mode. It was SO thoughtful! I loved it and it meant so much to me that she'd do that for me and that she wanted/expected me to carry it. It was an adjustment. There was a couple of times I was going to leave it in the house if we were going someplace that I was not comfortable carrying it. I was already in the car, and she'd come out of the house with it saying, "You forgot your purse."

Nail polish and a purse are a couple of my "tells" in male mode and I love the telling, but it was not without effort that I could go out with her as a couple and be comfortable like that. We still often go get mani pedis, facials, brows done, etc. together, and to be totally honest it still tenses me up a little. If I'm acting weird about it, I can tell it takes all the fun out of it for her. When I can own it, she loves it!

[Crissy 107]

Rhonda Jean and Katrina K, Excellent posts, telling us how it has worked out is just so important to us all. I really enjoyed reading them! Crissy

[Rhonda Jean]

This may veer slightly off subject, but I want to add something. Everybody wants their wife/SO to go out with them. I get it. My wife did a few times when we first got married, and was always completely tolerant of whatever I did inside or outside the house without her. For the last couple of decades, though, she wouldn't be seen with me completely dressed. 50/50, reluctantly.

So I get into this dating situation where she is willing to go out with me dressed, and I'm overjoyed! Let me tell you, that first time, the second time, the tenth time... it was surreal to the point of being awkward. The very first time was the most awkward and the most memorable. We go to a mall and I'm wearing a white eyelet dress and heels. A little dressy for the mall, but WTH. When we were walking in I was so subconsciously confused by being outwardly a woman in a situation that I had only known from a male-of-the-couple perspective that I literally couldn't hardly put one foot in front of the other. I walked like a drunk! My mind was simultaneously telling me to walk like a woman and walk like a man, to that point that my date asked if I was alright. Even now, although I've gotten a lot more comfortable in a couples situation, I still get twinges of that. It's embarrassing! But seemingly totally out of my control. Sure, the predominant thought is to be a "girlfriends" type couple, sometimes I just can't quite get there, even though I want to so bad! Maybe it's just me.

[Alice Torn]

Funmetoo2004, I feel the same way. I am tired and weary from spending money on dating sites, and nothing whatsoever happens,and you are so right. It is way too much energy wasted trying to date, , even for non crossdresser, and ad CD to it, well, at 64, I am sad that i never had a mate, but love the cats in my life. They do not have the OVERLY HIGH EXPECTATIONS most GGs have, and accept me as i am, for who i am. i am just tired.

[sometimes_miss]

my wife is a tomboy (an extremely feminine boho chic tomboy, but a tomboy,) and almost certainly bisexual. I think those two facts help tremendously.
My ex was a tomboy, too; never interested in girl things, dressed jeans and a T shirt most of the time. I had supposed that someone like that, MIGHT understand a man feeling the reverse. Oh, how wrong I was. Even today, most women understand and accept the use of feminine taunts towards men as insults, essentially devaluing themselves as well, in the process. Every bisexual woman I've known wanted very feminine women, and very masculine men. Not some combination of the two.

Here's the crux: my wife has talked time and time again about "owning it."
Oh yes. CONFIDENCE. This is a well known, obvious display of alpha male behavior.

I was afraid of people seeing my painted fingernails.... MAJOR turnoff.
The OPPOSITE of alpha male confidence. We're not surprised at all that this is is a turn off. Insecurity in a male is also a turn off for most women. Just ask them.

We discuss my gender expression needs. It takes the kink out of it. If I had told me wife that I like to dress up as a woman without telling her that there are deep seeded reasons why I HAVE to do it, she would have left me already.
The deep seated reasons, are often the worst part. Some can accept kinky. Few can accept a man actually being feminine permanently.


when it comes to admitting, at least to ourselves, WHY we do it. And if we can't even admit to ourselves WHY we do it, how are we supposed to have a mature, transparent and honest discussion befitting the dignity of an intimate relationship with our SOs?
Few know why they do it. Most just chalk it up to 'I was born this way', even though they didn't crossdress for most of their early life. I think that for most, it's because of being brought up in an environment where being feminine in any way, was the worst possible thing for a boy to be, so they can't even admit it to themselves; so they don't even try to figure it out, as it might mean finding something that they absolutely, positively, cannot accept.

Women are incredibly emotionally intelligent and empathetic
It hasn't been observed to be generally helpful in accepting male crossdressing now, though, has it?

My point is that it's a lot easier to have a mature conversation about gender identity than it is to have one about "dressing up."
Oh, I don't know about that. Telling your mate that you're not 'all man' can seriously destroy the sexual attraction a woman has for you.

Maybe u can find a gay woman who is attracted to u dressed? But then what? U don't have the rite parts!
There are lots of videos on youtube, hot young crossdressers with their GG dates/mates. The emphasis is on 'HOT YOUNG'. There aren't a whole lot of women out there who find great big Shrek type guys in size XL dresses attractive in any way, and that's a substantial portion of the crossdressing population.

I guess I am different , but I really absolutely. have
no interest or desire be become romantically involved with
an Unaccepting woman on a romantic level .
You might change your mind about living with short term relationships once you've been alone for 20 years.

There is someone out there for you if You look hard enough
Odds are greater than 100:1. So you have to date 100 women in order to find the ONE that MIGHT be okay with crossdressing, then you have to find out if they're okay with YOU being crossdressed. Women's general idea of a crossdresser is the female impersonators in shows, and the drag queens, while, obviously not perfect, are generally able to pull off a decent appealing female appearance. Only about 1% of us can do that.
Then you have to deal with all the other compatibility issues.

When it comes to new relationships, everyone has 'issues', and I think by working to improve myself to the point that CD-ing is just one 'issue' with the relationship, and there are very few others, then a GG would be more likely to accept it, assuming that went with honesty and consideration, and a clear understanding of what CD-ing means to both parties.
I'm among the (probably numerous) men here who are considered 'good catches' by women; I make good money, I dress well, I'm funny (or so I've been told), I'm polite, I'm considerate, I'm always more than willing to do everything a woman wants to sexually. I've been set up with numerous dates by women I know. And I'm betting there are a lot of other men like me as well. NONE OF THAT MATTERS. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is crossdressing. If a woman finds it a turn off, nothing else will matter, perhaps other than being rich (which will simply make her tolerate it, not like it).

For those who do not have an understanding spouse, meeting with a good gender counselor helped both my wife and I gain a lot of understanding.
It MIGHT help. But I caution you all, I think most of these therapists may suggest that your wife/mate joing support groups. And many of the more vocal women in those support groups just may make your mate thing that you're definitely transsexual. Once this thought is planted in her mind, you may not be able to get it out.

It’s not like there are identifiable pockets of them in certain geographical areas.
I’ve found several who have views ranging anywhere from tolerant to drag you home and come to momma.
Few and far between.

I found them by dressing up stylishly (women adore well put together outfits) and being out there.
There aren't a whole lot of stylish giant crossdressers. I'm about the same height as Gabby Reece; but you'd never mistake me, for her, no matter what I wear.

But there are available women out there who want confident, glamourous dressers. As one female friend told me “it’s kind of erotic”.
Great! Where do we find her?

I mean can one imagine how hard it would be to find a hetero crossdresser that understands precisely where they are on the tg spectrum, is comfortable and honest about that, AND has no other mental or emotional issues?!? Oh, and is otherwise an upstanding citizen?
We're out here. OUR problem, is that even when we advertise ourselves, close to zero women show interest.

The OP points about finding out precisely the feelings of ggs is spot on. CDing is by its very nature a selfish (for lack of a better word - or thesaurus) activity.
No more than wearing any other type of clothes, is. For example, you could also say that any woman dressing to the nines is also selfish, because she's doing it with the desired result to be either or both attractive to others, or to make herself feel better. We just do it for the latter most of the time.

The way this issue is framed is all wrong, I think. The question shouldn't be "what can GGs do for me?" Instead, ask yourself what is it that you bring to the table? What does she get out of you being a crossdresser? The most likely answer is - nothing. In fact, you being a CD is probably going to be a liability.
What do we get out of women wanting to talk endlessly about the same thing day after day? Nothing. The question becomes what are we willing to accept about each other. Outside of crossdressing, I bring plenty 'to the table'.

Sometimes, I think that if I had it all to do over, I would have GG friends to hang out with and do stuff with but I'd leave the sex out of it. I wouldn't get married or even cohabitate and I would have gotten a vasectomy as soon as I was able. I love my children but being a father in this world has just been one long heartbreak. I think for the young CD that has to be something they seriously consider. Don't waste your life looking for unicorns. Do something productive. If a unicorn happens to find you, great. But don't expect it.
^this is not what most of us are looking for. Once hope is gone, there isn't much left. But more and more, I think just getting a dog is the best companion I can look forward to having. Ooooooooh; maybe be a dog walker for single women. I'm not sure exactly how to limit it to the opposite sex, though.

I think sometimes we are not giving women credit for Their ability to understand and accept. It is all to easy to blame lack of success on CDing
It is the main problem that we face. Women worldwide tolerate being beaten, living with losers, drunks, drug addicts, even to the point of being killed, rather than be with a crossdresser as a mate. It's that antithitical to what they want in a man, that they'd truly want pretty much anyone else, before us.

The women are out there , if you want a relationship You have to get out there . Go to that bar Social Group etc.
There are NO crossdresser/straight girl bars, clubs, or websites. The lone 'date a crossdresser' website is virtually entirely inhabited by men, most of whom list themselves as female, so a search is pointless.

Many GG love to fix their girlfriends up with nice men
Nice men who aren't crossdressers. Check out the crossdresser threads on the plenty of fish forums.


This may veer slightly off subject, but I want to add something. Everybody wants their wife/SO to go out with them
Nope, not everyone. I have no desire to go out dressed up. I tried it, didn't find anything enjoyable about it, so, just no.

This is all not about challenging everyone's opinions. But it is about the problems we face.

[Charlotte7]

The only personal experience that i have in this is what worked for me. I knew that I was transgender, I knew that dressing was important to me, I also wanted a partner. So, I actively set out looking for an accepting partner. For me it wasn't a case of meeting a girl, falling in love and hoping they were accepting, I wanted to tilt the odds in my favour. It was a case of meeting a girl and finding out, in non obvious ways what their attitude to having a transgender partner would be. Ok, this isn't easy without outing yourslef, but it's not impossible, though it does greatly reduce the available pool, and it does increase the chances of failure. You often have to fold and move on. But, we can't change who we are or what we do, it's what makes us, well, us. So, yes, perhaps some people do go about it the wrong way. Perhaps, and I would use my success as evidence in this, there is merit in putting ourselves first, thinking about what what we need from a partner and then actively going out to try and find one. I'm not talking about dating sites and the like, I'm talking about the normal boy meets girl scenarios. Fully accepting partners may be as rare as hens' teeth, but they are out there, as, in my case, 30+ happy years demonstrates. Also, as there are only about 1% of us in the population, we only need, a maximum of 1% of women to be accepting. In doing it this way at least your partner knows from the get go what kind of partner they have, there are no secrets, no recriminations and you can never be accused of being anything other than the man (and girl) she married.

[Happygirl!]

Sometimes_miss,
Wow, you paint a pretty grim picture for most of us. You do make good points. Wish we had more GG's to comment on this. I'm lucky to have an accepting wife who has known about this side of me since we were married. What do women really want? :)
Happygirl

[Ressie]

Women are attracted to successful men or men that at least have potential to be successful. Hence, a confident crossdresser has a much better chance than one that lacks confidence. Confidence (alpha male perception) is attractive with at least 90% of women.

But it sounds like the best route to take is to be deceiving from the start. Next, there's a perfect time to let the woman know that you're a CD. It has to be early in the development of the relationship to be as fair as possible. But also far along enough that it shouldn't be a deal breaker. If it is, start over by dating others.

When you think about it no one is totally truthful during the initial dating process. And most people have secrets that they aren't gonna reveal without waterboarding!

[Rhonda Jean]

Whew! As much as I'd like it to not be true, sometimes_miss has pretty much spelled it out. I actually HAVE dated a woman who was very accepting in most every way. For that matter, my ex was pretty encouraging in the beginning. There are exceptions to every rule, but she pretty much sums it up. I do think it's a different world for those in high school or a little older now.

[stephenie3756]

Judy - my wife and I are just two people living together. There were great times early in our marriage, but I had the same thing happen to me about how I ruin her life by not telling her. We have been married for 25 years. We are civil to each other. We have a 24 year old daughter that needs help. Intimacy has been gone for the past 8 years.

Some days I wish I would have told her at the beginning of our relationship, but to come out to another individual scared the hell out of me. Should I have said something, yes.... When she did find out, she was accepting of it for a while...I was on cloud nine...but then it came crashing down.... I stopped dressing/purged for 5 years. Then I started back purchasing clothes again and dressing since i said to myself, "This is who I am, a guy that likes to dress in women's clothes."....

I envy all the members of the forum that have understanding wives.

[phili]

Finding a mate is complicated at best- and at 67 and 32 years of marriage I feel very confident to say that loving the person you are with and being yourself fully are the twin pillars of enjoying life, and we only get one go around. I am also very confident that thoughtfully arranged marriages have just as much chance of succeeding well as romantic discoveries out on the town or reasonable choices made at church.

We are not in danger of getting killed any more, most places, and in most places people understand gender variance. Therefore it is better to own your crossdressing, and focus on knowing who you are first with respect to crossdressing and everything else about you, and then being upfront about it all in the mate search.

Finding a mate is like hitchhiking- you may wait a long time but the ride is coming!

And in the meantime, even in the worse case, there are plenty of ways to love people you are with without getting married, and everyone who is out finds that people for the most part are fine with us, and we can have normal platonic love relationships. That is better than imprisonment in a marriage.You do not want to feel imprisoned by marriage. Anyone who is can attest to that.

Part of our problem is that we have romantic notions of being sexually attractive as crossdressers, and that is a very low % option, since we need others who have similarly mixed gender signal wiring.

But if we consider ourselves like any other outliers we have to simply admit we are just another variant human minority, and we will experience the same trouble [or is it really trouble?] with that as any other minority.

Not feeling sorry for ourselves is essential. Haven't we noticed that we are attracted to any beaming person, even if they are x minority?

[Charlotte7]

Part of our problem is that we have romantic notions of being sexually attractive as crossdressers, and that is a very low % option, since we need others who have similarly mixed gender signal wiring.


phili, I agree with everything that you say, but I've picked out the above quote as I think that it's the most important point that you make.

We have to accept that we are cross dressers before anyone else can accept that and we have to, as has been running through this thread, own it. But, we shouldn't automatically assume that we are 'sexy' to others even if that is how we feel inwardly and it may even be our primary driver. As you say, if that is a motivation in finding a partner then it is a very low % option. At, at the end of the day, how many of us, are, if we considered it deeply, are more importantly truthfully, sexy? I know I'm not, but I don't have to be.

Also, we have to bear in mind that the triggers that we may have, the things that motivate us, a pretty skirt, an attractively dressed woman, the feel of the material, all of these things, whilst they may be our triggers, they almost certainly aren't triggers for our other halves. For instance, we may be out and about and I may see a woman wearing a 'must have' skirt. Now, that person may be a trigger to me, I may find her, I may find her clothes 'sexy', I may (probably will) want to dress like her. But I don't expect my other half ever looks at another women on the street and thinks that they are sexy. She's not programmed that way. So, in many ways it's a non-starter. It's all about cutting cloth and making something out of it. It's might not be the prom dress you always wanted, it may just be an itchy tweed skirt, but better the tweed skirt than hairy breeks.

For my partner, all I have to be is, me. What worked for me was being me, yes a cross dresser, but me and yes, the two things are inseparable,. I presented a WYSIWYG package. Which means that when I dress, I don't change in character or personality, well I do, but not completely, I leave enough of me there to be recognised as the person that she first met. At first it can be a difficult balance to pull off as there is the conflict with how far you want to push it and how far it's reasonable to go. I suppose that the best advice that I can give here is to say don't expect to be able to get all of your toys out from the dressing up box in the first week. It's very much like being a test pilot, push the envelope too much or too quickly and the greater likelihood is that you'll crash and burn. But, the envelope can be pushed, progress can be made, and over time, as you grow older together, as the years pass, the you are more the person that you are and less the person that she fell in love with. When it works, as in my case, you can move from the occasional bit of light dressing to having a whole wardrobe of your own and the ability to spend whole days at a time dressed, indeed, being dressed can be the norm. But, even having said all of that, to get it to fully work, you have to be very lucky and that, at the end of the day is a shame.

[Ressie]

There are NO crossdresser/straight girl bars, clubs, or websites.

I have CD friends that go out every weekend in small groups. They just go to Restaurant/bar venues that everyone else goes to. I don't think any of them are looking for dates, but they often dance with women that are attracted to them. That attraction may not be more than a novelty, but they are out meeting women in public places instead of sitting home feeling lonely.

Find other CDs to go out with. Finding crossdresser/straight girl bars would be an unreasonable expectation so find other places to hang out. You may not find your dream girl but you'll at least have a little fun.

[KatrinaK]

Lexi, darling, you asked the question of those of us who are successful with our spouses. I answered with my experience and many others in my position agreed with me. If it’s of any interest to you I discussed this post in depth with my gender psychologist, and she was very much in agreement with my position.

If you’re genuinely looking for answers I suggest you reread some of the advice you’ve been given with an open mind. If you’re just looking to argue, I’m not interested on this one. Too deeply personal.

[nikkiwindsor]

I told my wife about my feminine side when I preparing to ask for her hand in marriage. She accepted my marriage proposal with the understanding that I wouldn't dress up. I've explained in other threads how things worked for us. It hasn't always been easy but I was really wise in opening up to her before we got married. What amazes me each day is that she really does love me!

[Susan Smokes]

I don't think there is anything we can do to make ourselves more acceptable. I just think it takes a special women to see past the dressing, and to be with us for who we really are. There are some crossdressers on this site, who were lucky enough to find that special women, but I think it is like finding a needle in a hay stack.

[nikkiwindsor]

My wife is rare and special and special to me

[phili]

If I were dating I would say genderfluid on the dating site, or if it a chance meeting, do or say something to communicate that. Genderfluid is manageable, understandable, etc, and crossdressing as part of that is really not surprising or destabilizing. Coning out of nowhere and saying we have what basically sounds like a fetish for clothing is not going to win any one's confidence, as it is too oversimplified, as fetishes are. It means we are not part of a relationship any more.

Women are people, seeking relationship, and want the best all around package they can get. But having room for their mate to be genderfluid is essential, and if that is true, the details TBA will be fine.

and full communication are the basis of a good long term relationship, and concentrating on the fundamentals of the relationship is essential. Put yourself in the shoes of a woman- you want a man who appreciates you as you see yourself, and your conflicts, doubts, possible changes ahead, etc. Showing that to a woman, as opposed to simply posturing as a courting man does- seeing her best self image and wanting that- you will show that you are mature and sensitive and flexible. This is what we need from them as well!

As a type of woman I can say it doesn't bother me if a man wants to put on my clothes and ... the question is what then- does he become far away and lost in a fantasy of objectification, or does he then behave more femininely, which I understand, and having seen both sides of him, I am not threatened by that. I am genderfluid too, so I can feel the ebb and flow of gender, and be able, as many women do, say that I want my man back enough of the time.

So that leads us to love responsibiy, i.e. to know as best we can if we are genderfluid, or really TS to the point of not wanting to be a man anymore. This is hard for us to know, but when we do it seems we can admit it! But whatever we are, we need to show, not tell. Telling a woman about something she can't see isn't helpful, it is more like hiding it.

Because most of us have been in the closet so long we can only understand relief by dressing up, and this ironically makes it about clothes rather than personality, which works against us in finding relationship. So if we can't just own our look and be out, the next best advice is to push our drab femme expression as far as we can while prospecting. IT is enough of a clue to warn off women who don't want to explore. In the 60s one pierced ear was a silent signal that a man was gay. Today, we can signal who we are without narrowing down our gate to be about our clothing desires. It is important to us, yes, but it is the tip of a genderfluid iceberg, and it is the iceberg we need to expose to become interesting partners for those who are themselves genderfluid, not the tip!

Think of it this way- you meet a girl who is nice and interesting, but what she wants is to show you a pic of her 'packing' [simulating a penis to fill out her pants and show she has something down there]. Of course, you are sympathetic, but you would wonder whether this image is clouding her mind so much that is the first thing she wants to talk about. You wonder whether she has thought through how this might look to you as a suitor. Hmmm. Ok, she has issues, who doesn't. You might want to try to rescue her, or you might think, "Maybe I'll look around a bit more..."

Now suppose you had just been on a week long mountain climbing expedition, and she surprised you by being one heck of a daredevil climber and saved you in a fall by quick thinking and technical expertise. You held her up, too, and you followed her lead. You admitted being cold and she did too. You have begun to notice her strong hands and her easygoing camaraderie- her jokes and her stories about being the youngest child in a family and a bit of an outcast. She asks a lot of questions about you and asks about your feelings about things in a very sweet way.

Now how do you feel when she is showing you pics of her life, and then pauses, before the last one, and says, 'here is something that I do sometimes..., ready? ' and looks at you with trust, and the peace of sharing with someone with whom you have a common set of bonds and emotional give and take.

[traciethetg]

To be BLUNT, the more attractive CD's when dressed will have a better chance of getting an excepting mate and the pretty/more passable the easier it is and will be..

I met women at makeup shows, nail shows sephora's,Mac cosmetics and more while i was dressed.

I use to meet many women on Craigslist, back page and more using T4W,W4T and W4W.

I know pretty CD's and TS that have women all over them,chasing them.

A women once told me she like someone who is committed to the lifestyle. Meaning things like getting FFS ,breast implants and body modification.

[ReineD]

What can we do to make ourselves more acceptable? (other than winning the lottery, of course, as that's not really a plan).

Begin a relationship with someone. If the two of you develop feelings that are true - if there is mutual caring and respect, even if it hasn't yet progressed to falling in love, then the chances are greater IMO that she'll want to work with the CDing than if she doesn't know you at all. If she has gotten to the point of caring, then she will have seen positives in you that will perhaps overcome any strange feelings she may initially have about the CDing. But, if you tell a stranger who hasn't had time to develop any feelings for you, there will be nothing to countermand any negative feelings she may have about the CDing.

Here's the next step, if you do find someone willing to work with the CDing. BALANCE. Your relationship can't be all about the CDing all the time. Now if you do feel the need to dress like a woman all or most of the time, then you'll need a GG who is OK with being with someone who dresses all the time ... which is like finding a GG who is OK with transition. They are gems if you can find them but I think they are rare.


If I were dating I would say genderfluid on the dating site, or if it a chance meeting, do or say something to communicate that.

How does one communicate gender-fluid, other than say one likes to present partially or fully as the gender opposite than sex. Just curious. Because in my experience, personality traits and emotions are not gendered. Both men and women experience the full spectrum.

[Jenny22]

To traciethetg. The only thing I/we know about you is your Birthday, but your experience sounds fantastic.
Please do tell us more about yourself. It should be great reading!