Interesting - Autism Spectrum

[Kaitlyn Michele]

https://www.aane.org/gendervague-intersection-autistic-trans-experiences/


There are a couple of articles on this at AANE.org

Recently I have seen a therapist specializing in autism spectrum issues.... His evaluation is that I am on this spectrum, and it sure explains alot of my habits, routines and communication style...

my grammar and spelling issues(ie cant be bothered)... my math and music lizard brain...my non interest in relationships .....how pragmatic thinking rules my life...how im obsessed with I care about and completely unable to generate any interest or patience for what im not... my interest in flight paths and schedules... etc etc....groups distress me, even though I was forced to learn to be in groups my whole life...

how I sit and stand in strange positions and twirl my fingers..itch and touch myself in front of others... go on and on about obscure things I remember to the point of being told to shut up, then continue to go on and on..
how I feel like im not a person, that I just learned to copy people (exceptionally well if I do say so myself)...that copying does not include any comfort with intimacy...I thought post transition that would clear up but it didnt at all...
it just doesnt occur to me that I or anyone else would be interested in a relationship..I guess that's kind of sad, but I'm not actually sad....I just wonder about it and leave it at that...

maybe TMI but I wonder if there are some out there that may resonate with some of this..

anyway...the articles include some thoughts on the idea that autistic kids are being told they are not trans...even tho there is seemingly a link between the two... and the idea of gendervague is a very interesting...

as someone that transitioned , I have always felt my deep shame and anxiety around my nature is why I have been pretty reclusive and why I've had trouble calling myself a woman even though im delighted and totally happy I transitioned...even though I feel totally like ive always been "this way", I cant spit out the words "I am a woman" and truly internally believe it.... I wonder if its just my brain works in this different way that's characterized by what we call autism spectrum....that its not only a trans issue, that my trans nature is real but I go through this other thing, that is that the way I experience being a person is just a little bit different than most people..ironically if this is true, it does explain why I found transition so easy, I just pressed the button , followed the path and came out the other end...I didnt worry about it...pragmatism ruled...just do it baby....the surgeries were just necessary procedures that I did with very little planning and thought once I decided...all my thoughts were about deciding...but once I decided...game over... and once I decided I can say to this day I never thought about it again other than to share with others and acknowledge that it happened....

anyway....done rambling...lately been interested in this topic so I throw it out there...

[Jeri Ann]

Hey Kaitlyn,

Interesting but this is the first time I have heard of a possible link. I know quite a few TS girls and a few guys. None of them is, seemingly, autistic. I do have a trans-man friend who is a full time translator for the deaf. His hands never stop so you couldn't tell if it covered up any stemming. I need to ask him.

It might be interesting to know if there was a higher incidence of autism in the trans community than the general population. Of course, you would first have to know who the trans population is. Just sayin'.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

yes there is ..

that's whats on that website..

I beleive that stat is that autism spectrum folks are almost 8x more likely to be trans than general population

One issue with this stat is that its a small sample size but that's a problem with all trans research

[LeaP]

I am totally with you on this, Kaitlyn. In fact, 90% of what you describe applies to me as well. As you know, Tourette Syndrome also runs in my family. Somehow, somewhere all of this seems to run together.

The 10% differential is spelling and grammar! I’m something of a perfectionist when it comes to these, reviewing again and again and again … Then re-reading and editing after I post. Then days later, re-reading and editing yet again for clarity. Then ...

[AllieSF]

I have recently, last couple of years, been thinking that for whatever reason I have met many trans people who also have other issues, like dyslexia, deaf mute, being bi-polar, addictions, excellent detailed memories, sometimes a much higher intelligence, and other emotional to mental disorders, or somewhere on the spectrum, as people like to say now a days. Any articles you have on any of these would be a welcome read for me. Thanks for posting this.

[Laura912]

You five women are some of the ones for whom I have a lot of respect. But...remember the old adage, when all one has is a hammer, the rest of the world looks like a nail. Some of these findings are non-specific or will cross match to other things or syndromes. Yes, I'm a curmudgeon. Even have the tee shirt.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

what is that supposed to mean?? it makes no sense

[Nikki.]

It means the “symptoms” are rather non specific in that they can fit a wide variety of “maladies”.

I don’t really have any of the traits Kaitlyn listed and I’m very verbal.

:shrug:

[Starling]

Perhaps a time will come when the more benign cognitive syndromes, that we now label as diseases, will be seen simply as ways of thinking; and that like all ways of thinking, feature both benefits and drawbacks. I would like to stop whistling constantly, though.

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

actually Lallie that is the direction it is going with autism... many OT's have stopped trying to force autistic kids to learn the "right" way, and instead trying to help them learn as best they can...
a key point of the blog and articles that I guess were unread by the peanut gallery is that kids diagnosed on the spectrum are less likely to be taken seriously as trans..
very sad for them if this is the case...

the kids worst off are easier to diagnose, but difficult to help....the amazing thing is my daughter is working on stuff that is really helping...one is horse therapy...ive seen a parent fall to the ground in tears when his child got up on a horse and said "go horsey go".. after not talking for 4 years.... and he kept talking....at first he could only talk while on the horse... pretty amazing...



and actually it made no sense relative to what I posted..

the point was simply that its interesting that there is a statistical correlation between the two things..and I had some personal correlation...
the "hammer" was the trans community..explaining all these things as "trans" things... and me the "nail" being hit by it for many many years...
if I feel distress...it must be because im trans!! if I feel uncomfortable and Ashamed it must be because im trans...I went to the best trans therapist around..and she told me so...
it was the exact opposite of what my post was taken to mean..

btw my need to clear it up and for it to make sense is symptomatic ...heh..

I do agree btw that the autism spectrum is not uncontroversial...I wouldn't be surprised if its over diagnosed... and im actually not saying im on the spectrum....just saying it explains alot...and its possible...this one doctor I talked to seem to think so...as I said my daughter is embedded in that world as an OT... and Ive learned alot about it...its a real thing.... and it causes alot of distress for people...it is difficult to diagnose, symptoms are non specific so it causes alot of issues...I wouldn't be surprised if medical opinion somewhat shifts over time...its about neurology...it cant be cured, therapy cant "fix" it...its just a different way some brains experience life...sound like any other difficult to diagnose spectrum condition you've heard of??

and the best research we have so far is if your brain works this way...you are way way more likely to be trans than the average person...hints at a neurological basis for trans...
.pooh pooh it all you want but you are on the wrong side of history on this one...

[LeaP]

Unfortunately - and despite the somewhat wishful thinking comments on the changing views of autism - it’s pretty hard to avoid concluding that being trans boils down to a congenital defect, as all signs are pointing toward it being a type of neurological disorder of sexual development. It may be “normal” (i.e., expected) in a population sense in that it occurs at predictable occurrence rates, but a deviation from normal development nonetheless.

[Starling]

Well, Lea, a deviation from normative development, anyway. And KM, I haven't actually had a chance to read any of the material yet, and was just expatiating. Any discussion of model railroading in there?

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

maybe some wishful thinking...i have seen first hand changes, and i have also seen the resistance to it and the ignorance of it...

[LeaP]

By wishful thinking I meant that most autistic kids still aren’t getting an enlightened education.

[pamela7]

given that the latest research shows trans brains are neither female nor male, and given that autistic brains are also very different from normal, containing less imprinting in both cases, i'm not at all surprised if the % of autism is far higher among trans and vice versa. I'm slightly on that spectrum, so why not?

[Nikki.]

I have some training in working with people with autism. After the training I decided that being trans is similar in that I believe both have populations with a spectrum of symptoms and degrees of severity, and I believe one day being trans will commonly be considered as such.

I thought the latest scientific research was concluding being trans was a genetic disorder influenced by epigentic factors? Or is that the same thing as “all signs are pointing toward it being a type of neurological disorder of sexual development.”?

This is an honest question.

[Aprilrain]

Hi Kaitlyn, I’m glad you raised this. I remember Anderson Cooper had a special where he featured several transgender children, boys and girls. One of the girls he featured had Autism and she was the one I could most Identify with. She was definitely a tom boy, I know I would have been…well, at least until puberty hit anyway!
I would have been pregnant by 13 if I’d been born with the right bits.:heehee::heehee:
I Identify with so much of what you describe except with regard to relationships and your “relationship” with your transition.
Here I wonder if this is not more a function of the limitations of language over any significant difference in our subjective experiences.
I don’t think I’m “normal” in regards to relationships, just different.
In fact I have largely dispensed with the word since starting transition.
My eyes have been opened to so much that I was blind to before which makes me wonder what it is I’m blind to just now! Whats normal?
Anyway, I like intense interpersonal relationships both intimate and plutonic, most people seem not to. I guess in this way, I’m high maintenance. I want your undivided attention and I’ll try to give you mine but if I’m not interested in what your saying or touching you than It will take a great deal of effort for me to continue paying attention. I’m like a five year old in this way.
The other big difference in what you describe is your relationship to transition itself. I continue to struggle with bouts of shame, confusion, grief and anger over having to transition being a woman and all my own internal misogyny and learned self hatred BS. I do not regret transition, just regret having to.
April

[Starling]

Here's a link that may be interesting. It's not a primary source, but the author has a trans child, who was adopted. She has done quite a bit of research into how to maximize the child's prospects in life.

http://danglingpossibilities.blogspot.com/2009/12/hormone-wash-in-brain.html

[LeaP]

Nikki - essentially the same thing.