Fem. Outward

[deebra]

For those of us that don't/can't pass but need to be feminine in addition to wearing women's underwear are you also wearing women's outerwear and dress to blend. For example I wear women's footwear with bootcut girl jeans and girl top. Maybe a little makeup. Doing this makes for a lot of pluses.
1/ I am wearing girl clothes because I like being feminine.
2/ I really feel good wearing all girl clothes and going about in public.
3/ I am helping acceptance of the CD movement.
4/ Nothing wrong with a male wearing girl clothes, women Cd, public get use to it (really nobody cares).
Hope this shows other CD's that you should also do this. You will be surprised and amazed that nobody notices

[Stacy Darling]

Is Gender blending where we are going D?

Been doing it for years; 1/ 2/.

3/ 4/; take me out of my comfort zone, But! for those of us in the position to flamboyantly and non-precariously do so, will!

What would you do if you were me Deebra?

[Beverley Sims]

Sounds like gender blending, I have been going a few steps further and this way I am in my comfort zone, if I was half and half I would not feel comfortable.

I also feel I would not be doing justice to my fellow sisters either.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
I wear the whole package because I just want to be Teresa . I've just been out this morning to check out some new items in Matalan and take advantage of a discout card . The dress is part of a Denise Van Outen collection , I slipped it on in the changing cubicle and stepped out to check how it looked in the full length mirrors and got into a conversation with a couple of lady's trying on, they agreed I had the right figure so I then slipped into nice winter skirt , they told I'd be mad not to buy it with my legs , I thought it was too short but one lady had already gone to find her size in the racks to check it out for herself .

All I can say is there's no harm in just being me , forget the labels !!

[Fran in skirts]

Labels are for soup cans, not for people.
be true to yourself and own the look, you will then be happy.

Fran

[gerri ray]

I don't own a wig nor have a fem haircut any longer. I mainly dress fem from top to bottom. There really is no mistaking what I wear lol. I do wear makeup most days as that is how I am most comfortable.

[deebra]

So glad to hear that all five members above dress feminine and go out. The post was to encourage those that would love to but are afraid to to Just Do It. If you dress to blend and not call attention you will be amazed how you aren't noticed. I gotta put this in, bad English and all. When I dress with a tight tuck and feel the softness of lingerie, how the jeans hug my body, what a bra does under a soft, pretty girl top and walking in heels it is such a wonderful feeling to feel feminine just like a girl and I'm out there.


Stacey, Bev and Teressa, it's finding what works for you but most of all go out and enjoy. If you can pass fully dressed who wouldn't prefer this, I can't so I do what I can. Bev it's not doing injustice to our fellow sisters; isn't getting out better than the closet. If someone sees I am wearing girl clothes then they see me wearing girl clothes, SO what's the problem????????? The more society sees gender blending the sooner we/it will be accepted then you can wear a dress and look better than a lot of women!!!

[Stacy Darling]

Apologies for my response.

[Nikki A.]

Not saying it is wrong and I'm not judging. If I am going to wear all female clothing I go all out, make up and fem hair or wig. That is my comfort zone. Whatever make you comfortable is what you should do.

[deebra]

I'm tall, medium build, flat stomach. When I go out dressed as described in thread #7 above I feel the clothes fit my body close and nice, color matched, neat and look nice on me and I look nice in them. Better than loose baggy course men's jeans that are to baggy in the seat. Just makes good sense to wear clothes that fit you body better and you look nicer in them, even if they are the other gender. What smart mind could argue against that??????????????

[Sara Jessica]

The male is strong in this one...



4/ Nothing wrong with a male wearing girl clothes, women Cd, public get use to it (really nobody cares).


The more society sees gender blending the sooner we/it will be accepted then you can wear a dress and look better than a lot of women!!!

When is this place going to stop saying...

1) Women CD. Women don't CD. They wear clothing styles that are 100% acceptable for women to wear that is generally tailored for a woman's body.

2) Why is it so often a competition to look better than women? Oh that's right, women no longer dress like women and we can now do it better. :eek:

[Brenn]

I think the gender bending/blending look is great. My go-to shoes are ballet flats. I often wear women's jeans or shorts as well. Wear what makes you feel most comfortable.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Deebra :hugs:, I will wear ladies jeans and shoes with trouser socks and ladies underwear and sometimes
ladies top while presenting totally male + triple earrings both sides. >Orchid ..+:daydreaming:+..

[ToniG]

Do this quite often. Will be making a food-run in the am. wearing Ladies Jeans, Tank, girly socks,Panties of course, but with wide-brim man-hat & Shades. Will be walking on some gravel--so will wear man-sneakers so my Ladies Sneakers stay nice . No Bra this trip. maybe later. Do save the "Full Package Dressing" for when going certain places. Still too Hot here for the Wigs. Ladies wallet will be in my cart, clear gloss on my nails. No makeup, as do have to show my ID there. Toni G..

[DaisyLawrence]

If someone sees I am wearing girl clothes then they see me wearing girl clothes, SO what's the problem?????????

News flash - there isn't one. It is only a problem in your head and boy oh boy is it a BIG problem in your head judging form your repeated posts.

[colleen ps]

Yep, i do it all the time, jeans, shoes, hose, tops, nail polish etc and never really had a problem. A few stares maybe but no comments or confrontation.

[Stacy Darling]

News flash - there isn't one. It is only a problem in your head and boy oh boy is it a BIG problem in your head judging form your repeated posts.

I could be as critical and as you are!


Guess I'm more beautiful on the inside as well!

[DaisyLawrence]

Guess I'm more beautiful on the inside as well!

You're too kind. :)

Seriously though, there is no critcism of Deebra at all here, only an attempt to help her get over this problem. The thing is she repeatedly keeps making the same posts along the lines of wearing tight fitting jeans and it not fair that women can crossdress and everyone has a problem if she does. The simply plain fact is that no-one has a problem with men wearing 'close fitting tight jeans' and a womans top. They sell super-skinny jeans in mens clothes shops these days which are designed to be worn like leggings. Deebra offers not one example of anyone seemingly having a problem with this sort of presentation and yet perpetuates the belief that everyone is dead against it. Well they aren't, there is no problem with wearing tight womens jeans under a womans top, countless members here do it all the time (I do when it's too cold for my favourate leggings). Maybe if Deebra can get it out of her head that the world hates this kind of presentation she can just start to relax and enjoy life. Deebra, has anyone ever said anything to you when dressed as you describe? Have you ever experienced a problem at all from dressing this way. If so, please elaborate, if not, then see that as proof that it is not the problem you think it is and just enjoy wearing what you want. :)

[deebra]

WOW, THANKYOU all for standing up for me, if I repeat a post and it bothers you just don't read Deebra any more, problem solved. And not every member reads this forum every day so if I "repeat" that person might read it on the second go round and it might be the answer they were looking for.
Sara Jessica, listen up girl,
1/ Wrong, women do CD all the time and it's accepted. They wear men's shirts, male football jerseys, men's jeans because of their deep pockets, men's uniforms including work boots, pants, shirts, tie and caps, jackets even T shirts that are men's underwear. Sad thing is if a man looks better wearing women's clothes as described above he is criticized; why are women given this free pass and men not treated the same??? and that is the reason for this post, equality.

2/ Be the best you can be, if you can dress as a woman does and look better than her that's just all the more reason to CD. Ever see the male to female transformations, the men always go from average looking to a beautiful, feminine woman. As CD's we emulate women, we want to pass and be accepted as a woman, personally I would love to look like a Playmate or Calendar girl.

DaisyLawrence.
You are right it's not a problem if you are confident in wearing women's clothes, unless:

1/ You run into a family member, co worker and are outed and embarrassed.
2/ An insecure bully wants to bully you.
3/ Anyone else including teenage girls wants to make fun.

2

[DaisyLawrence]

1) I wear skinny jeans in front of everyone, what is there to be embarrased about? They sell them for men now. My 87 year old father recently bought skinny jeans that fit him like leggings. He loves them.
2) Has anyone ever bullied you about this kind of presentation?
3) Has a teenage girl actually made fun of you in public when presenting like that?

[Shelly Preston]

WOW, THANKYOU all for standing up for me, if I repeat a post and it bothers you just don't read Deebra any more, problem solved. And not every member reads this forum every day so if I "repeat" that person might read it on the second go round and it might be the answer they were looking for.
Sara Jessica, listen up girl,
1/ Wrong, women do CD all the time and it's accepted. They wear men's shirts, male football jerseys, men's jeans because of their deep pockets, men's uniforms including work boots, pants, shirts, tie and caps, jackets even T shirts that are men's underwear. Sad thing is if a man looks better wearing women's clothes as described above he is criticized; why are women given this free pass and men not treated the same??? and that is the reason for this post, equality.



Women had to fight for the right to wear Pant/Trousers. Many places it was actually banned.

A lot of it came from industrial jobs in wartime but that did not mean it was automatic.

Women were not allowed to wear trousers on the U.S. Senate floor until 1993. is just one example.

So I am afraid its not equal as we have not fought for that right often enough to make is seem normal.

Strangely some of the fight as least here in the UK is in schools trying to stop boy wearing shorts in hot weather.
So as a result some took to wearing their sisters skirts as it was still part of a standard school uniform.

[EllieOPKS]

I try to discreetly blend with some girl clothes. Forgive my lack of fashion styles; I have a pair of leggings that go down about a third of my calves kinda like pedal pushers back in the day. The pattern in them leans toward camo but is not camo at all. I have worn them shopping, out to lunch, at the lake, at the campground and no one has given me a second glance (I watch closely for others looking at me). I also wear a nail polish that is very close to my flesh tone and I have only gotten a second look once which was when I was counting out money to a cashier and she definitely noticed. All she did was make eye contact and smile.

[deebra]

DaisyLawrence.
I have never been bullied, you pick the places to go and not go and if you are lucky you don't run into a smart a** bully that's showing his insecure maleness. He also probably has small hands and they could be an indicator of other things if you know what I mean.
Yes teenage girls and young women have made fun,..... sick, immature and no class or manners.
1/ I bought a pair of heels in the mall and the SA suggested I wear them while finishing my shopping. As I walked past a young woman setting with her boyfriend she broke into a big laugh and got her boyfriend to take a look. I sat down some distance away waiting for her to leave so I could walk back to the shoe store and get my guy shoes I had left there; she out waited me and got her jollies again as I walked by.
2/ I wore my black swede 3" heel boots under my long black jeans and walked the mall early one morning, three people clocked me. I thought the boots and long jeans covered most of the boot and blended. One young woman just stopped, look down at the boots and then stared at me as if to say what the **** are you doing. Another setting behind a kersarge broke out into an uncontrobable laugh and called to her friend. Then I wore the same jeans and boots in a different mall and no problem. This second time I did take along my 12 foot alligator that walked beside me (joke). CD's are suppose to be soft, the weaker sex and feminine, and have a tough skin.
3/ I asked the SA in Payless about CDing, she said watch out for teenage girls. If The Donald can rant and rave surely we can wear a bra and panties.

[DaisyLawrence]

Deebra, I really don't know what to say. I'm glad you weren't bullied but find your assumptions about the size of a male organ associated with any potential bully quite disturbing. This could also be said about your conclusion that a teenage girl that laughs at you is sick and has no class despite you not knowing said girl one bit. Maybe it is just you but of the thousands and thousands of posts I've read here, I've not yet heard of anyone causing strangers to burst out in open hilarity. Maybe you just present a funny image or live in a particularly rude place? Maybe it would help if you were to post some pictures of the outfits you describe (don't worry, no need for head shots but neck down would help with gretaer understanding). Look forward to the photo. :)


If The Donald can rant and rave surely we can wear a bra and panties. Oh and about this, well yes you can and that is what I've been telling you :confused2:

[Patience]

Not saying it is wrong and I'm not judging. If I am going to wear all female clothing I go all out, make up and fem hair or wig. That is my comfort zone. Whatever make you comfortable is what you should do.
...or whatever you’re able to do.

When I started my journey, l imagined l would have to be 100% feminized before venturing out into the world. This meant outfits, wigs, makeup and all the rest of it. Fortunately, l decided to compromise and ventured out during a pride weekend, when others were also out dressed in all sorts of ways. Under the right circumstances, a pair of sunglasses and an appropriate hat can go a long way.

I’ve yet to get my first makeover and buy my own wig, still, I’ve already been out eight times and I’m glad I did it. If I was comfortable enough being out before my look was complete, it’ll just get better when all the elements are finally in place.

[Sara Jessica]

Sara Jessica, listen up girl,
1/ Wrong, women do CD all the time and it's accepted. They wear men's shirts, male football jerseys, men's jeans because of their deep pockets, men's uniforms including work boots, pants, shirts, tie and caps, jackets even T shirts that are men's underwear. Sad thing is if a man looks better wearing women's clothes as described above he is criticized; why are women given this free pass and men not treated the same??? and that is the reason for this post, equality.

2/ Be the best you can be, if you can dress as a woman does and look better than her that's just all the more reason to CD. Ever see the male to female transformations, the men always go from average looking to a beautiful, feminine woman. As CD's we emulate women, we want to pass and be accepted as a woman, personally I would love to look like a Playmate or Calendar girl.


Listen up girl? Really?!?!

Sorry to break it to you but men are the gender with more wiring issues than women. The rare woman who "CDs" is much more likely than not to be doing so based on gender identification. The man who CDs much more likely than not is doing it based on something tactile, visual and/or sexual, or at least began doing so from that perspective. Women simply don't approach clothing from that same POV.

I know not of women who wear men's clothing for any of the reasons you cite except perhaps team jerseys but regardless, it is quite a stretch. WOMEN DO NOT CD IN ANY WAY REMOTELY CLOSE TO WHAT A MAN SUCH AS YOU DOES. As has been said, they have blazed their trail already. If you want to fly that flag, by all means go for it but please don't complain about this being a form of inequality.

As for any of us looking better than her, please drop that male bravado and competitive streak at the door. Women do enough of that amongst themselves. Most men trying to compete lack a key element, grace.

[deebra]

Sara Jessica as a MtF CD I can't believe you said males have more issues than women, have you never been around women? I agree male CD's get more out of wearing the clothes and presenting (sexual and feels good to present as a woman) BUT put a woman in guy clothes and a male dressed as a woman society will accept her and throw rocks at him. Society and wives and girlfriends do not treat each equal. And the last point, CD's that dress as you are dressed can and do learn grace and female mannerisms which lets them pass. If you look at MtF videos you will see a passable CD has perfected the entire presentation; voice, mannerisms, setting, walking and emotions. A lot of women could learn from this CD.

Daisy, I answered all your questions but lost it when I went to page 2, sorry; to long to re wright.

[Charlotte7]

I suppose this discussion comes down to whether or not women wearing male clothes, (a normal everyday occurrence for (most?) women) is cross dressing or not. As it isn't breaking down any cultural norms, as it isn't being done for any reason other than wearing clothes to keep warm, and as there is no further motivation in wearing a male garment, to my mind, it doesn't come close to being cross dressing. But, there are other opinions out there which may be valid too. Without wanting to ruffle feathers here, and I'm referring to cultural norms not what is possible etc, it seems to be a case of women wear men's clothes because they can, men wear women's clothes because they can't.

[Sara Jessica]

Sara Jessica as a MtF CD I can't believe you said males have more issues than women, have you never been around women? I agree male CD's get more out of wearing the clothes and presenting (sexual and feels good to present as a woman) BUT put a woman in guy clothes and a male dressed as a woman society will accept her and throw rocks at him. Society and wives and girlfriends do not treat each equal. And the last point, CD's that dress as you are dressed can and do learn grace and female mannerisms which lets them pass. If you look at MtF videos you will see a passable CD has perfected the entire presentation; voice, mannerisms, setting, walking and emotions. A lot of women could learn from this CD.

Whatever.

First of all, you clearly know nothing of me and my POV.

From there, you cannot let go of an erroneous premise that women run around wearing guy clothes as commonplace and that doing so is their version of CDing. LET IT GO, women generally do not engage in such behavior in numbers anywhere remotely close to guys who CD. Might this be that they have more fashion flexibility? Sure, but at the same time, they have earned this right. Like I said, blaze your trail as you have been doing and in 50 years things might be different (but I doubt it). Women didn't blaze their trail to wear guy clothing. They did so to wear styles of clothing that they made their own. You are free to do the same.

As for grace, many CDers don't want it. Some couldn't find it if they tripped over it. But to imply that women can learn from a CD, what planet are you dialing in from? It is just another less-than-veiled swipe at women in your view who do not meet your femininity-meter approval.

Do you want respect? Be who you claim to be without stepping on the women you emulate. Fly your freak-flag as you see fit and feel free to share what it looks like. Until then, you are a faceless pile of words that can be purveyed by anyone with a computer keyboard.

[Tracii G]

Women that wear what deebra calls male clothes are clothes made for women just styled more like mens clothes. The term is boyfriend jeans or boyfriend jackets.
Still they are women's clothes not men's.

[DaisyLawrence]

Daisy, I answered all your questions but lost it when I went to page 2, sorry; to long to re wright.

Well as anger is a motivator why not channel that into writing it again and this time lets see a photo of you so we know what you are describing all the time when you look 'better than real women' (don't worry, no face needed if you are shy).

[jacques]

hello Deebra,
I understand what you mean. As a bearded crossdresser I choose to wear the dresses at home. However, occasionally wearing women's versions of "men's clothes" and some light make up in public is quite daring for me - it pushes my boundaries and I enjoy it.
Each to their own!
luv J

[Teresa]

Deebra,
I've read through the replies and really feel the problem is the eternal one of being a MIAD . My recent thread about my neighbour gives a fairly clear view of what the public think . It does give a confusing message and unsettles some people .

It is obviuosly still a problem judging by the number of threads on a similar theme . So the question is what is the basic problem why you can't with some good help even possibly prefessional to totally dress with makeup and a wig and see what a difference it makes with the public response . I wouldn't and couldn't do MIAD because I want to integrate , of course I get read but not with an outspoken reaction . It's all a quick glance and then it's over , I for my part don't look for any reaction so it passes without incident .

I told many stories often very funny about shopping in drab but those days are gone , I have fun with SAs but there is no . " Jaw on the floor !" look from anyone . I shop now as any woman would and enter changing areas without thinking .

It's all very well telling a MIAD to just go out and own it but it's no good complaining when it doesn't work out like that , the general public aren't members of this forum , they don't understand your appearance . I saw a CDer in my old home town last week , he/she looked like a pantomime dame and she attracted a great deal of attention . A guy next to me didn't say it but his look had WTF written all over it .

[Tracii G]

Maybe CDs and transsexuals that at least try to blend or integrate if you will people tend to just think its not a big deal.
When a bearded man or an obvious mans man is wearing a dress and high heels people think wow now thats odd I wonder whats wrong with him? What is he trying to prove?
Its just harder for the mainstream public to understand a MAID and be more rapid to judgement.

[docrobbysherry]

Well as anger is a motivator why not channel that into writing it again and this time lets see a photo of you so we know what you are describing all the time when you look 'better than real women' (don't worry, no face needed if you are shy).
Daisy, I have often wondered why someone like deebra, who posts so many effusively detailed posts that almost brag about her presenting androgenous looks in public, is too shy to post EVEN ONE PHOTO of her looks here. Not that I care what she looks like, but sometimes I'd like to see if it matches what I imagine she described!:daydreaming:

But, to date she will not post a photo or even explain why she won't!:brolleyes:

[deebra]

Doc I am not very good on a computer and have no one to teach me how to post a pic so I can't. I would love to get an opinion of how I though I passed in black 3" heel boots and long black boot cut jeans, I also look good in a black mini skirt and heels with and without hose. I would love to post a pic in heels wearing a thong or panty and with and without hose BUT I get tired of writing a post and having it cancelled.
As far as Teresa said getting a professional make over and dressing fully as a woman and passing......Impossible. For years I worked out in a gym, a lot of that is still with me (arms, chest, shoulders) and can't be discuised so I do the best I can to blend. You can't make a shark into a grizzly bear. However I have fully dressed and gone to CD parties.

Traci I talked with a SA in women's clothes when I was buying girl jeans, she said a lot of women buy guy jeans for the deep pockets. Girls and wives wear their man's clothes all the time, they are loose and they think it's cool. If the guy said O.K. I'll wear your panties and jeans she would vomit; O.K. for her, sick if he does the same thing. We are women, there are no limits, we wear what ever we want, we make the rules; O.K. for us, not you.


Daisy in my city and surrounding there are a lot of military and millions of people. As a guy put on a girl sequined blouse, girl jeans or skirt and heels and go in a grocery store; you would be the freak of all freaks, jeered, laughed at and made fun of and mavbe get your a** kicked in the parking lot.

[Teresa]

Tracii,
That is the basic problem , acceptance here whether using a picture or not is far removed from people in the street , most of our fears are based on what they think and not members here .

Deebra,
You have to let that mindset drop , the fact that women wear male clothes doesn't relate to our CDing . In your reply to Daisy I assume it's tongue in cheek about the outfit for grocery shopping . Most of us would attract more attention and possibly get some adverse comments if we dressed that way . I might be a slight guy but the years of carrying heavy photo gear have left me with well toned arms and shoulders , I know they give me away but I just live with it , maybe you are doing yourself down too much .

I look at it more now that if I had trasitioned this how it would be, warts and all , the fact I am now fulll time in my new home town . The other point about my situation is not many people know me in guy mode so they have nothing to compare with, they only know me as Teresa , again it's another reason why being MIAD can't work for me , I'm not giving a confusing message .

As for computer use and posting pictures maybe the help section might give you a some suggestions how to solve it .

[Shelly Preston]

Moderator Note

It is a personal choice if a member wishes to post pictures or not.

We should all be respectful of that.

[Tracii G]

I agree posting a pic is a personal thing Shelly but deebra says she would but doesn't know how. She could go to the help section and learn how to post a pic. I did thats how I learned.
I'm not a whizz on the computer either deebra so if I can do it you should be able to as well.
Maybe its time to step up your skills and back up what you post with a pic.
I would actually like to see some of the outfits you say you look good in because they sound nice.

[DaisyLawrence]

This is a help forum Deebra. Why not do as Tracii suggests and if you get stuck posting the pic that you want to then just ask for help. We will be all too happy to try and help you. :)