Is it Transgender or Transgendered ?

[Kelly DeWinter]

Serious Questions

Is it Transgender or Transgendered ?
If it's Transgendered is the d silent ?
Is Crossdress or Cross Dress ?
Is Transgender the Umbrella term to include Crossdressers ?
Is there a written rule that you have to be either CD or Trans and that you cannot refer to yourself as both ?
and finaly
When the gathering is semi formal are Pants Suit optional or a definite No No ?

I spent some time this weekend with a group that included a bunch who argued the whole night over terms and definitions. At one point I was tempted to toss them "Ru Pauls GLBT Dictionary and How not to be a Horse's Arse 8th Edition" at them, but I seriously doubt any of them could read.

[Tracii G]

Transgender is the correct way to say it because it states what you are.Present tense
Transgendered would refer to something you used to be.Past tense.

[Rachelish]

Labels are ok up to a point - as long as they convey some meaning to other people. I think Transgender is the most useful as it is more of an umbrella term so can be used without suggesting any specific behaviour. More detail can be be supplied if necessary. Transgendered seems an odd word as it suggests having been through a process to become what you are. It would be difficult to misunderstand what Crossdresser/Crossdressing mean in a literal sense but they just describe an action not the complex person underneath. So it's Transgender for me :)

The last question maybe depends on your definition of semi-formal - and Pants Suit?

[Beverley Sims]

Love the questions but let us not get too pedantic about them.

If I was talking about someone I would say she is transgendered, that is in addition to Tracii's past and present explanation.

If I was a cross dresser, I would be someone who is not happy about something and dress.

The D is silent if you slur your words.

A pant suit?

I have seen some horrible examples in my time, one I saw on the photo page the other day was quite stylish.

Wear what you like to meetings, dress, skirt, jeans or even go in drab.

I agree with you Kelley, I am sure there are other more intelligent conversations you can have.

I would ask another member how they handle their dressing and what problems they may have with makeup.

In other words, swap notes and leave the labels on the cans. :-)

Oh! I think transgender is being more used these days as an umbrella term.

It is the modern evolvement of spoken language.

It may eventually be modified in the dictionary.

[Teresa]

Kelly,
Labels don't really mean that much to me anymore , the public I meet aren't bothered , they make very little difference to them . I did ask the question recently on the forum what they see us as and came to the conclusion we are all crossdessers to most of them irrespective if we consider oursleves TG.TS,NB or whatever else . Very few if any ask if I'm TG and if the question arises sometime do you want to become a woman . It appears they would still ask that question even if I had full SRS , again coming down to the passing question, there will always be a male trait they will pick up on .

The other side to this is if your deeply in the closet labels have no meaning at all because no one has seen you or knows about toyr dressing .

I did hear of a TS recently who she is almost through her transition but wants to remain firmly in the closet .

[Lana Mae]

I read somewhere(?) that transgender is an adjective and not a verb! As in transgender woman! Transgendered is totally incorrect and shows a lack of knowledge! Transgender is the umbrella term to include Crossdressers-according to some!(me included) Labels are irrelevant! Depends on the pant suit and yes some are considered formal! IMHO Hugs Lana Mae

[Ressie]

Close Lana Mae except transgender tends to be used (erroneously) as a noun. When I hear someone say transgendered, it sounds like something magical that happened with a wand. He was normal but now he has transgendered!


Is Crossdress or Cross Dress ?
Was it ever Trans vestite?

Is there a written rule that you have to be either CD or Trans and that you cannot refer to yourself as both ?

There is the in between place where (some of us) aren't sure if we are TS or not. But earlier psychology studies have two distinct groups - transexual and transvestite.

is it GLBT or LGBT?

Sounds like an enjoyable evening arguing about topics we love :)

[GretchenM]

The way it was explained to me is like this. Would you say a male is maled or a female femaled? In the case with transgender it should be trans and not transgender because one would not say malegender or femalegender. Unfortunately, because trans is not a common gender convention sticking gender on the end of trans is acceptable so people understand what kind of trans you are talking, i.e. not transmission.

It seems that in the general world transgender has become somewhat of a synonym for transexual. But in the professional world (psychologists, therapists, etc.) transgender is considered to be a blanket term that includes anyone who senses the presence of a gender identity that is not consistent with their birth sex.

Also, because the gender concept really comes from a linguistic form where the language has a masculine tense and a feminine tense, male and female are not genders but masculine and feminine are. Male and female are sexes. Cultures that are associated with languages that do not have a masculine or feminine tense often do not have gender concepts either, but they do have words for male and female which basically takes the place of gender forms that most languages use. There really aren't any firm rules, but the foregoing makes the most sense to me.

[Teresa]

Gretchen,
That was a point I made a while ago after I watched a program on UK TV , "Dealing with a transgender " . It jumped in straight away with a clinic dealing with aspects of transition . I asked at the time who maybe misusing that label , the forum or the media ? The forum has the TS section to help those in transition , most of us say we are under the TG umbrella .

I have yet to read on the forum that a member has been femaled , or did I speak too soon ?

[Tracii G]

Why is it always "the study of women, gender and sexuality"? Why are men excluded?
In all the years men and women have been on this planet has anyone one actually figured out why women act the way they do?
Womens /Gender studies? Can you actually get a degree in that?
I don't think that would help in getting a job anywhere.
Just some rambling thoughts.

[Gillian Gigs]

There needs to be a pedantic conference where folks can get picky, split hairs and argue semantics! The problem is that the only ones that would go probably can't read and are too narrow minded to listen with their deaf ears! Labels don't change a thing, as I still wear my lingerie, hose and skirts, if for no other reason than I like to. "Serious questions" involve things like feeding the poor, helping the sick, and educating ignorant people so they don't hurt people who are different than them.

[Beverley Sims]

Tracii,
There is a university that has a degree in women's studies.

Gender does not come into it and men can enroll as well.

[CarlaWestin]

I consider myself under the TG umbrella although, nobody or nothing transgendered me. I just is transgender.

[Stacy Darling]

It is not a Word Smith which creates the being!

Never will be!

[Taylor186]

At one point I was tempted to toss them "Ru Pauls GLBT Dictionary and How not to be a Horse's Arse 8th Edition" at them . . .

Is it Ru Paul or is it RuPaul? Just kidding! Confession: When I read the OP I went out to Amazon to buy the book. Duh.

I always spell crossdresser as one word and wish everyone else did too.

[Rayleen]

Well said Lana Mae.

[Stephanie47]

I was always told to talk in sentences. I do not ascribe to one word answers for anything. How does a person break down who he or she is with one word when getting down into the trenches with the common folk? People waste too much time arguing about a single word rather than the substance behind what should be discussed.

[natalie edwards]

There was a tumblr page called "well dressed crossdressers and transgendered women" It was taken down due to credible death threats over the use of the word "transgendered".

[CynthiaD]

Transgender is the correct way to say it because it states what you are.Present tense
Transgendered would refer to something you used to be.Past tense.

Actually "transgendered" does not refer to the past. It is a past participle, which is used as an adjective.

Here's another example: The transgender police show up at your house and you think to yourself "Oh man! I'm really screwed!"

But really, who cares?

[BLUE ORCHID]

It is , ( Crossdresser ) with a capital C. >Orchid..+:daydreaming:+..

[GretchenM]

A few comments.

Gillian, I could not agree more. The point I was making which was maybe lost, is that the whole thing of terminology and classification is thoroughly screwed up. I seriously doubt anybody could ever straighten out the taxonomy of transgender people and square it with the rest of our gender concepts. Sometimes I envy those societies where the gender concept does not even exist and people can just be themselves without a label and bar code stuck on their forehead.

Teresa: excellent point and over on this side of the pond it is much the same. Talk about transgender immediately switches to talk about transition. I yell, "Hey, what about the rest of us?" Funny point about about being femaled. Thanks. A bit of levity was needed. :heehee:

Tracii: I have been reading some of the latest research on transgender people and it mostly looks at the neurobiological differences between MTF, FTM, and cisgender male and female. Fascinating stuff but really difficult even for a biologist. Interesting, many of the studies examine more FTM people than MTF people. It seems that in some respects the FTMs are a bit of a puzzle as they do not show the similarity in their brain functions to the gender of their choice that MTF do. Plus some parts of the brain are affected differently in each. The comparisons to male and female are interesting and in many ways there are similarities between the trans person and people of the gender of their choice. But in other areas this are no differences and they are like the people of their birth sex. Kind of muddled, but patterns are starting to appear. But the bottom line is that being transgender is no choice in most cases and has a neurobiological foundation. Those of use who have always believed we were born this way are more likely than not correct.

[Teresa]

Gretchen,
I have just been asked to write a short version of my dressing history and that point came up from seeing a counsellor over twenty years ago , all I had to argue the point at the time was the gut feeling that he was wrong . At least thinking has moved on , actually saying we are wired differently turns out to be a succinct way of describing it . The person I wrote the piece for had never thought of it in those terms .

[Beverley Sims]

Blame Bill Gates's lot for crossdresser or cross dresser, as the first one comes up on my spell checker as being incorrect.

This is a great thread for understanding the English language.

Then there is the difference across the ocean where the English use "S" and the U.S. usethe "Z".

I wonder did America run out of S's?

I apologise, no that is spelt wrong, apologize.

[Vickie_CDTV]

"Transgender" seems to be common today, during the early uses of it was sometimes written "Transgendered" (ie. "We need to help the transgendered".) In the earliest days, it was "transgenderist", meaning a non-op full time TS. "Transgender" is supposed to include crossdressers... but in actual use doesn't usually include them.

As for a pants suit to a semi formal.... I would imagine most GGs at least would say it was fine. I'd say at least wear heels and some kind of sheer hosiery (even just knee highs) with it.

[GretchenM]

Teresa,
Congrats on having the opportunity to tell your story to a wider audience. I think that would be illuminating to a lot of people and I dearly wish it would happen more often. That way perhaps some of those who think we are aliens because we don't toe the lines of "normality" might see that we are just regular people who have a different perception of the world and our relationship to it.

The "I am just wired differently" statement is a powerful one in my opinion. And it is not so far from the truth as far as what the science knows about us. They really are trying to figure out how we are wired with respect to neurology, genetics, psychology, etc. But most every peer reviewed paper I pour over and try to figure out says, somewhere in the text, nobody has yet figured out why this behavior pattern exists in some people. Lots of theories and a lot of very good science at work, but no definite answers yet. But when you put all that technical information together you still don't have a clear view of an answer and different wiring is a good and understandable response. I suspect many of the scientists who do research in this would not disagree with that description.

[Teresa]

Bev,
I think my spell check gives up and runs for the hills when I start typing replies on the forum there are more differences than I first realised .

[DIANEF]

There needs to be a pedantic conference where folks can get picky, split hairs and argue semantics! The problem is that the only ones that would go probably can't read and are too narrow minded to listen with their deaf ears! Labels don't change a thing, as I still wear my lingerie, hose and skirts, if for no other reason than I like to. "Serious questions" involve things like feeding the poor, helping the sick, and educating ignorant people so they don't hurt people who are different than them.

Agree with this fully, and more than enough ignorant people around.

[DaisyLawrence]

I'll second that Diane.