I've got a problem with you people ......

[Kelly DeWinter]

I've got a problem with you people ......

That was the opening line to an email I received this week in relation to an apartment we were looking to rent out.
Because of the lack of housing within our area for the LGBT community, we decided to reduce the rent and advertise in the local LGBT newspaper.
We had the basic requirements for renting in place and were willing to be relaxed on some of our requirements, to give people a break.

To date I've had 4 threats of Fair Housing complaints because the prospective tenants feel I was discriminating for :
. Not allowing more then 4 adults in a 1 Bedroom Apt (Federal law allows for restriction to 2 adults per bedroom)
. Gender discrimination for not accepting 1/2 the listed rent.
. Gender discrimination for not renting to Pre Op TG with no job ( I had no clue they were TG or Pre-Op until after denying their application based on lack of income. )
. Gender discrimination for not renting to a fellow CD who was evicted from her last two apartments.( Found out about the evictions through background check (did not pay rent), Found out about the CD through unsolicited emails after turning down her application.

We finally found an acceptable applicant and rented it. No idea what her LGBT status is, and frankly I don't want to know.

Am I crazy, or is our community full of bs crazy people ?

[sarah_hillcrest]

OK don't want to sound like a jerk here, but I've thought the same thing. Other then the fact that I wish I was a girl at least three days a week, I'm a very normal and responsible person who believes that it's my responsibility to make my way through life and not societies responsibility to take care of me because I'm different. I feel like most of the people here on this forum are the same way which is why I like it so much.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Not sure what to say other than kudos to you both for the good deed you are doing.
Don't let the negativity fool you, there really are good people out there, you just managed to meet some of the notso's (not so good)!

Just out of curiosity, did you respond with a clarification to state exactly why, and point out the criteria which they did not pass?
I think some people just are in complete denial of the wrongs they do and go to great lengths to pretend they're being picked on, Kinda sad really.


Again tho, keep the faith.
Cass

[Kelly DeWinter]

I've always made it a policy to state clearly the reason for declining an application, it typically falls into the following categories:
. insufficient income to support application
. unable to verify references
. past evictions
. bad references
. to many accounts in collections or too many past due accounts
. failed credit background check

Other then that, it's all good.

[Maria in heels]

I'm sorry but to me it sounds like those who complained about discrimination are ones who just find it easier to blame the other person for their own problems. Not being able to pay the rent on time, only wanting to pay half? the rent, no job, eviction history, etc is not a discrimination issue at all ... its called being a responsible adult in my book....

Or make it simple and state that you want 2 MONTHS SECURITY to weed out those who really cannot pay for your apartment ... I always found that worked best. If they complain, a simple answer of - 1 month for the landlord and 1 month for the rental agent/realty company is usually the norm, and if I had listed thru the real estate company, they would be charging you a month anyways....

[Kelly DeWinter]

I think now that I've calmed down a bit was when the phrase "I've got a problem with you people...." was the assumption that a non-LGBT Landlord was making a biased discriminatory decision while the decision was based on the information provided. Yes I agree that a lot of times it's unfortunate what has happened to people in the past. I've given breaks to people who have had medical issues with a letter of explanation, an people with employment gaps etc. I wish I could post some of the emails, you would not believe the convoluted thought processes of some.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Like many laws, there are always unintended consequences of good intentions. You could win in court with your evidence. However, they can file a lawsuit and claim anything and waste your time and money and make your life miserable in general (and you are usually considered guilty until proven innocent in those cases.) I don't envy your situation. On the bright side, the people who threatened you with gender discrimination are definitely people you don't want as tenants... imagine the grief they would cause you.

[Gardener]

Suspect you answered your own question. Shortage of housing in the area means people looking are going to be disappointed, repeatedly. Means some of them dealing with the disappointment have to blame someone. You!

[Tracii G]

Just because they are trans or a CD doesn't mean they get to bend the rules when it come to qualifying to rent an apt.
Some trans people are real jackasses that have an entitlement mentality. They use their being trans to claim discrimination I have seen kids try this before. I don't buy into that at all and don't let them get away with it.
I had 3 houses I rented on the same street and I have done some serious background checks.
The home owner has to be diligent when it comes to who you rent to.
I eventually sold one house to the renter and the other two to an investment group.
Being a landlord was not fun at all.

[Stephanie47]

Just because you advertised in a local LGBT newspaper does not preclude the possibility the applicants were not LGBT community members. Someone who does not like LGBT's may file a grievance just to make trouble for you assuming you show preference for people he or she does not like. I think if you were to restrict applicants you could run into a legal issue. And, as others have indicated, there are butt heads in any community.

[OCCarly]

I think a lot of LGBT folks are damaged. Most of us who were less than 100% effective in keeping our true nature hidden when we were young were badly mistreated as children and as a consequence are damaged adults. How effective we are at mitigating and working around the damage varies, and some folks have developed unhealthy coping mechanisms such as affinity scamming and passive aggression.

Factor in job discrimination and mistreatment on the streets, and it is not hard to see why it appears that the LGBT community has more than its fair share of crazies.

I chose to hang out in this forum because the composition is mature, stable folks who are well grounded, and I’ve seen very little craziness in the years I’ve been here. Sadly I cannot say that about another forum which shall remain nameless. It is a very good forum, but it seems to be a magnet for folks who are, to put it politely, outliers.

Sorry the world is the way that it is. I’m trying my best to make it a better place.

[DaisyLawrence]

Nice try Kelly but next time up the rent to market value and advertise to anyone. You could say you gave them their chance and they just shot themselves in the foot. Personally I gave up being a landlord years ago because of bad tenants in general, from all backgrounds and communities.

[Beverley Sims]

It is that type of client that helps to give us a bad name.

I think we all have psychological problems of one type or another, but it is sad that some are unable to get on top of it.

Yes, ask the police about crazies and the full moon.

That's when they come out.

[erickka]

It seems as though you have your legal bases completely covered here. I find that nowadays there is an increasing number of A- holes that think that we owe them a living. Sooner or later it will catch up with them. Kudos to you for doing what you are doing!

[biancabellelover]

We only ever rented out our flat (apartment) through an agency. 7% commission was money well spent, saving us that kind of hassle. We sold it recently, so longer have that problem.

If we were to buy another, I think we’d rent it to someone like the defence department, rather than the public.

Michelle

[Fran-K]

Hi Kelly

There are crazies in every community.

There are people who are blame others, tagging them as anti...-ists, for their own failures and shortcomings in every community.

You did nothing wrong!

As to the threat of legal action ... while I certainly don’t wish it on you, it would probably be pretty amusing watching how an anti-LGBT charge against a cross dresser would go ...

Fran

[CarlaWestin]

Am I crazy, or is our community full of bs crazy people ?

Not crazy. Nor are they discriminated against. These people are called criminals.
Sadly, criminals make careers out of not working and just pulling the discrimination card and living off of welfare.
Your rental unit is a business, not a charity.

[Michala]

Have owned rental property as well, can be a real pain with some renters. Some have that sense of entitlement. For me, I would never have given them my personal email address, business perhaps. Second, I know you were trying to help a group out but I'm pretty sure most who own rental property will agree with this "The higher the rent, the higher the class of renter, and, the lower the rent, the lower the quality of renter."

[Kelly DeWinter]

Really appreciate all of the input, I've been in Real Estate and Property Management for years. I go to a group in Baltimore that talks about some of the issues facing the LGBT community. Two of the big issues are employment and housing. I know a lot of people especially in the T community have a hard time with employment, simply because very very few employers are willing to hire a highly qualified T employee especially if there is any public interaction. So the jobs they land are on the low economic rung. And the number of jobs on the ones that do work is staggering. Then when it comes to housing if your income is low, the amount you are able to afford for housing is low as well.

Our thoughts were just to give someone a break.

[Tracii G]

A very noble thought IMO sorry it didn't work out.

[sometimes_miss]

Just judging from what I see going on in the country, and what people write on the net, I think >50% of the general population is bat poop crazy. Then when you add in further stress inducing personality traits, it just goes up from there. I have a friend with a multi unit building, and he once said that all of his tenants were referred to him by people he knows who would vouch for them. Seems to work for him. So spread the word that you have units available, making sure that the people you know can expect you to come to THEM and complain if their 'friends' behave badly. I never really asked how long he had to keep any units open in order to get the tenants that he wanted, though, so there is that.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Kelly :hugs:, Better You than Me, The house across the street from me is a two story two apartment
unit owned by a good friend of mine, Some of the things that I have seen and the stories that he has shared
with me are unbelievable but true.

Some of what you describe I like some of his stories. >Orchid ..o:daydreaming:o..

[IleneD]

Kelley,

You've hit upon something that caught my attention too.
I'm in a support group at our local GBLT Center. I like it and attend regularly when I'm available. The group is mostly younger trans (all MtF); a few about my age, and all are in various stages of transition.
But one of the common themes that comes out around the table is their lack of medical access for their dysphoria, or needing an endocrinologist, etc. Nearly all have no insurance. Most of them (not all, mind you) receive some sort of disability or public assistance, and either unemployed or marginally employed. On top of that, I'd say that a few of them have serious mental health issues beyond dysphoria or their gender problems. The common theme is that they are underclass. You can debate later whether it is of their own making or not.

I don't blame you in the least for using Common Sense, and good business practices. I feel sorry that a good intention was used against you, and the renting public (with lawyers in tow) were ready to jump all over you.
Hang in there.

[suzanne]

It seems any member of a commonly discriminated minority has an itchy trigger finger any time they face an unfavorable outcome or even opinion, regardless of whether its for just cause or not. Playing the race card, if you will. In my city, there is a movement toward building mega mansions (20 or even more bedrooms!) on farmland. They are a blight and they make scarce farmland useless. But raise your voice against them and you hear cries of Racism. I know nothing of the ethnic origin of the owner and it just doesn't matter. Theyre bad for all kinds of reasons, but the owner goes on the pffensive with the race card. Theyre just using any weapon they can get their hands on, like your prospective tenant with the poor record of rent payment.

But on the other hand, do they merit a little bit of empathy? Could they be having financial problems because of workplace discrimination? Just asking, because I know you likely don't have the financial breathing room to handle cashflow interruptions.

[lingerieLiz]

It doesn't mater which group you rent to there are people you don't want to do business with.

[docrobbysherry]

Kelly, I work in rentals in Calif. I routinely turn down too many unrelated folks for rentals. It is against the law here to discriminate against families. But, not against unrelated adults and adult siblings. Applicants say, "But, you're discriminating. if we were a related family you'd rent to us." I reply, "Yes, I am. Because I can!":straightface:

It's funny when I'm renting a 1 bedroom with a 2 person limit and they say things like, "But my girlfriend and I will be in one bedroom and our roommate will sleep in the living room." Like I care where they sleep!:doh:

[Teresa]

Kelly,
I rent out my property through a letting agency , I get my net income after their outgoings but who they let it to is their problem not mine . I don't have any hassle .

It's a shame your good intention were so messed up , sadly or annoyingly you had to come to the conclusion of asking a fair rent , do your background searches and offer it to the best applicant and ignore their gender status . I'm afraid it proves to be their problem not yours at the end of the day !

[Aunt Kelly]

Am I crazy, or is our community full of bs crazy people ?

You're not crazy, but I'd suggest that "our community", in this case, is the entire population of "renters". No, they're not all deadbeats, angling for a way to get something for nothing, but there is a non-zero number of them.

[BrendaPDX]

WOW! We have that in the Tri-metro area in Oregon too, we have one house and a triplex. It seems that being a landlord is being demonized. When we do rent I think we may use an agency to avoid the issues that you are running across. The sense of entitlement seems to be growing and the tight rental market is creating frustration and desperation to the point where some are just lashing out. I hope the best for you, please keep us posted. Thanks

[Jaylyn]

The best thing I ever did was when I bought my first house and lived in it. Second best thing I thought was to rent it out and we move back to closer where I grew up and bought a house. The third best thing was to get rid of the rental house I had bought or our first home.
Got a family paid rent for one month, his wife got sick so no rent for the second month( but my payments continued) third month no rent because his grandson was bitten by a rattle snake he said. ( but my payments continued) fourth month his wife was sick again and the sheriff said I couldn't have them removed, ( but my payments continued), fifth month lawyer sent them a letter cost me lawyer fee and ( my payments continued), sixth month the sheriff visited them again with a command letter from a judge and lawyer. ( my payments continued), seventh month I showed up at the house in the town which was four hours from our new house. I was mad and one way or another they were gonna pay. I show up and the front door was open, I walk in and felt mad, angry, and looking for a fight. The door handles had been removed, the toilets removed, all ceiling fans (4 of them) gone, all light fixtures, and even the sinks had been taken out with the dishwasher, clothes washer and dryer, and to make thing worse spray paint graffette with words not fit for a sailor stay painted on every wall. I called the sheriff and was told after investigation the family had moved back to Arizona. Neighbors said they left about a week ago and they didn't have my new number to call me. We spent a lot fixing the place back up and put it on the market. It sold within two months after the listing. We didn't make a penny on the property. I'll never rent anything out again and I've grown a strong dislike for free loaders. That all was thirty years ago and I can only imagine how hard it is today to have rental property.