Chicken-or-the-egg question re: intimacy issues between CDers with unsupportive SO's

[Leslie Langford]

Not conducting a scientific poll here per se, but just curious...

For those of us out there with unaccepting or unsupportive (i.e. DADT) wives or SO's and whose sex lives are either unfulfilling or now non-existent, which came first?...

- Your intimacy and/or sex life with your partner deteriorated appalling over the years because of her non-acceptance and on-going tensions over your crossdressing, or

- Your crossdressing activities increased in direct proportion to the increased non-acceptance of your partner and the corresponding loss of intimacy as a kind of substitute (proxy girlfriend?), or

- A combination of the two

As for myself, I would probably put myself in the third category.

Of course, if we were "real" men, all of this would likely be a moot point, and we would simply have cheated on our wives or SO's, which is what the average "real" man with no other options would tend to do.

[Robertacd]

Of course, if we were "real" men, all of this would likely be a moot point, and we would simply have cheated on our wives or SO's, which is what the average "real" man with no other options would tend to do.

No, if we were "real men" we would force ourselves onto our partners, because a wife is not allowed to say no to her husband, specially when it comes to sex.

Anyway my situation is one of somewhat reluctant acceptance. Our sex life has decreased a lot over the years, it probably peaked in our 30's.

But I can't say definitively that my dressing had anything to do with it.

I can say that getting a vasectomy seemed to have some strange effect on my wife. As soon after she no longer wanted me to ejaculate inside her.

Figure that one out...

[DaisyLawrence]

But I can say that getting a vasectomy seemed to have some strange effect on my wife. As soon after she no longer wanted me to ejaculate inside her.

Figure that one out...

Seems like a waste of a perfectly good vasectomy Roberta. :eek:

[Allisa]

Leslie and I hesitate to say this,if we were "real" men we wouldn't wear panties and dresses.O.K. let the inquisition begin.

[Rhonda Jean]

Mine might be a little different. Fits the first scenario better. Deteriorated over time, certainly, but with a different twist.

Not to be boringly repetitive, but... Married 3 decades, she knew before we were married. had long hair, shaved and all that from the get go.

I waited for her to initiate about 90% of the time. Figured since I was always ready it made sense for her to let me know when she was. I always wore an nightgown or something sexy (in my mind, anyway). When she first was getting sick of it all, the first thing she started doing was demanding that I "get this off!" Then things could proceed. Next thing was she didn't want my hair hanging down on her or touching her in any way. Thought I solved this by twisting my hair up into a bun on the back of my head. It looked like I had short hair, and unless she reached back there and felt the bun, I thought it could pass for short hair. First thing she'd do is reach around intentionally feel of or grab the damn bun.

I still thought I was making progress, so I started sleeping in a T-shirt (and panties, but they're just underwear after all) and putting my hair in a bun anytime I even thought it might be headed that way. Next thing, "I can't stand the shaved legs and the shaved chest! I feel like I'm having sex with a woman!" So, for the first time since I was a teenager, I quit shaving. I hated it, but I was trying. First time we try anything after I quit shaving... "OMG! You've got stubble all over! Just shave!"

It finally deteriorated to the point that we'd try and she'd end up pushing me away. "It's like having sex with a woman! I'm not a lesbian!" I ask her what it is exactly. "Is it the hair? I put it in a bun! It's not the nightgown. I'm wearing a T-shirt. I tried not shaving and before it got grown out past the point of being stubble-ly you told me to shave. What is it?" She says, "I can't explain it. It's not just that stuff. It's more than that. You're just a woman. It's just the way you are and you can't get away from it!"

I'll admit that part of me was saying "Hey, that's awesome! I can't get rid of it! I'm a woman no matter how I dress!" So, yea, that was pretty cool until she moved out and served me with divorce papers.

[EllieOPKS]

I guess I am yet another category. Since my wife has no knowledge of my cross dressing what so ever. Our sex life slowly became non existent over a period of years. She just has no interest. My libido continues to be very strong. I will never cheat on my wife with another woman, but I don't feel like I am cheating on her if a guy or another cross dresser takes an interest in me. I love to dress up and take the role of a submissive woman. I don't know if my CD needs have become stronger or if I am just more comfortable in my own skin now.

[ClosetED]

I would say #1, but Rhonda's story hits home - sex was good for the 20 years she accepted hose/heels on occasion at bedtime. Then she demanded I stop, which lasted 18 months, and sex was a bit less, then DADT and first ask for divorce still less. When she tried accept and let me model clothes, then see me with wig,and then pictures, as she could see more of Ellen, the less desire she had. She said that she then could only see Ellen, not matter how masculine I presented. To me, that is like saying I can only see heads on a coin, even with the tail side up. I do understand how having sex with another woman is not how she is wired. But she imagines that no matter what I look like now. She did try to imagine I was horribly disfigured in an accident, could she still love me? But the accident made me pretty, not ugly. She asked Ellen come to bed, but she could not tolerate a touch or a small peck on the cheek - she would prefer to be raped.
Now a "real man" might have forced himself on her, or beat her. But I am just too kind and caring of her feelings - one of the parts of this that she doesn't appreciate.
Hugs, Ellen

[GracieRose]

I chalk up the decreased interest to menopause.

[DaisyLawrence]

A known medical fact GracieRose.

[Rhonda Jean]

But I am just too kind and caring of her feelings - one of the parts of this that she doesn't appreciate.

I think you've hit on something (else), but I'm speculating. If it's not the clothes, the hair, the shaved body... What is it that made her feel like she was having sex with a woman? Can't get the image out of her head? Possibly. I have racked my brain trying to figure it out. I think it is intangible. I think there must be something about the way we (I) do it that is intrinsically feminine, and I have no idea what it is. I do it the only way I know how, and I can only imagine that I must do it in a feminine way. Particularly since I almost always waited for her to initiate, I probably seemed passive or submissive. Caring and thoughtful became passive, submissive, feminine. Then again, I could be all wrong.

[Teresa]

Leslie,
Maybe you missed one out , Incombatible sexually ! The dressing issue never entered into the problem . While it has raised comments in the past on the forum , my wife and I both agree if it wasn't for my dressing needs I would have gone off and had affairs . She asked on more than one occasion why I hadn't done so . Even the thought of my dressing keeping me faithful didn't make much difference to it being accepted .

My dressing had to evolve initmacy or lack of it didn't change that need .

Gracie,
I didn't really notice that much difference before and after , but after all intimacy stopped , maybe then Cding became a good excuse .

[Tina Davis]

I don't believe that my dressing has had any effect on our intimacy (or lack thereof). After her menopause, we have had fewer and fewer times that we both are "in the mood" for it. We still love each other, but I don't know if we will ever have sex again. This has increased my desire to dress but it is not for sexual reasons (which is the way I started so many years ago). I shave my legs regularly, and my body occasionally, and she doesn't notice (or doesn't say anything). I do miss the intimacy but I will never turn elsewhere for it.

[Rachael Leigh]

While I was never great with intimacy it did decline when my dressing got stronger or when I just could not surpress any
longer. Also accepting myself as trans that also began the decline of my marriage. And yes it bothers me that this is true
as I just wish I could have just kept it surpressed

[alwayshave]

Leslie, with my ex-wife who knew nothing about my dressing, sex dwindled because she did not want it. Her only query about sex during our marriage was when did I think I would be impotent and not want it anymore. When viagra came on the market she was madder than a wet hen saying there should be a law against such a product.

[Lacey New]

My wife does not know about my dressing but sex in our life has declined simply because of age. She’s past menopause, I have been diagnosed with low T. I really don’t thing that my dressing has had anything to do wjitmour sex life. I don’t dress any more or less than I used to because it was always simply,opportunistic and still is.

[Stacy Darling]

I can only state that would a beautiful person such as myself wish to make love to someone so unaccepting, NO!

Which came first? The non acceptance!

[Raychel]

For sure the lack of intimacy rekindled the crossdressing desire for me.

Very long story, Marriage was never great, Always some huge issues.
Then as the intimacy went away. The marriage got worse.
The crossdressing was a time when I could step away from the stresses of life
and just relax in the way I feel most comfortable

Now we are separated. And I can just enjoy life as it should be.

[Judy-Somthing]

My wife knew a little about me dabbling with woman's clothes with friends prior to marriage and on a bunch of Halloweens.
She didn't know about me dressing up behind her back.
With the intimacy and/or sex being great and having children the urge to dress faded away for over twenty years.

If you noticed my photos are from 79 to about 83 then no photos for thirty years.

About fifteen years ago when menopause hit it seemed like over night the intimacy and/or sex life went from once a week to once every six weeks.
Of course it lead to arguments and she would say "there is more to live than sex" which made things even worse, like only once every three months.

I think the lack of intimacy and/or sex is why cross-dressing is coming back strong.

I'm not saying lack of intimacy due to menopause is her fault, but when her doctor asks her "how her love life is" she always says it's fine.

[kimdl93]

My wife attributed her waning desire to menopause, but when we split she squarely blamed my cross dressing for curbing her desire. To use her words, she no longer saw me the same way. She wanted sex, but not with me.

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

i guess i was never the greatest lover in the world, before i came out to my wife over 7 years ago (married for 27 yrs at that point)
our sex life was not very good. Since i came out to her we are still best friends, but she has lost respect for me as a man and husband.
i only wish i had come out to her much earlier in our marriage so she could have had the choice to divorce me and find a "real" man.

[JeanTG]

Four words: a pause from men... i.e. menopause. Yes, when she started to pull back due to menopause, my desire to dress went through the roof. If I can't be male in all aspects, I easily and happily revert to female which I consider my main identity. Now I've stopped dressing to maintain the peace. But I sure do miss it. We are still sexually active but much less frequently, and in spite of considerable ED on my part. But I know she's doing it as a "reward" for not dressing, and not because she wants to. Frankly, I'd be willing to stop sex in exchange for the ability to dress openly and frequently. Too chicken to ask. But if the idea came from her...

[Judy-Somthing]

What is a "real man" anyway?
Maybe my wife would be happier if I was an alcoholic, cheater, control freak, etc.

If your to nice they don't like that either. Some of my friends cheated on their spouses for years.

I should try harder to be like Mr Rogers. I'm pretty sure he wasn't into dresses.

[Shayla]

We were in deep DADT and I had quashed it pretty well for several years. The intimacy went first and the desire to dress returned after a LONG hiatus, and with a vengence- not just lingerie anymore! I did not put the two together as a possibility but after reading this chain, it seems many of us got further into or returned to dressing when our partners lost their desire for us. Could be coincidence or a different cause altogether, but something to consider. I can also echo that when the desire to dress came back, and included makeup and wigs, my wife was clear that she would not see me dressed, as that would negatively affect her opinion of/attraction to me. Separation not long after, although that would have likely happened without the dressing as well.

[Becky Blue]

I dont fit into any of the above categories but do feel that I can contribute to the thread by summarising my story...
I have told my wife very little about Becky, the little she does know has made no difference to a very active sex life... a BIG part of what has helped make an active sex life is the intimacy that developed after Becky emerged... discovering that I had a strong F side helped put me a lot more in touch with my emotions and as a result become a much better husband, which in turn increased intimacy, which led to a vastly improved sex life.. ironic hey!

I do agree with the Menopause posts above... most women have a much lower sex drive during or after menopause.. Most not all...

[Traci H]

I have thought long and hard about this issue in recent years. My wife lost all desire or need for sex or intimacy it seemed once she reach the mid-fifties. In actuality, she holds some issue that occurred on a vacation against me, or so she says. I apparently was not sympathetic to an injury she had, that precluded her from partaking in our vacation like I had hoped she would. There is some truth to that, however, in reality, that seems foolish to hold something like that against someone you love and not have sex and do so for years!

I am not sure that my dressing influenced this as I had put it away for a good five years before that, virtually not doing anything that was related to dressing, although she does not seem to see it that way.

My wife has gotten quite heavy, drinks too much, and talks about getting in shape, but always fails to act on it. I am sure she is somewhat embarrassed about her body at this point, and with menopause heaped on top, all involvement stopped. I long to be intimate yet, as those times really brought us together. I just don't see it happening. I do think that an active sex life would somewhat diminish my need to indulge in dressing. At this point, I think it serves as an alternative sometimes.

I find the whole issue quite concerning and complicated. We just do not talk about it, as it never goes well. I would like to seek counseling, but any one I have selected it not right for my wife, and she just refuses to act. Life is just grand sometimes.

[docrobbysherry]

My divorce had nothing to with my dressing. It did have to do with decreasing intimacy.

The bigger my ex became, the less I wanted sex with her. Which increasingly put the burden to initiate sex on her! After awhile she decided to get it somewhere else.:doh:

But, as for "real men"? Of all the crazy, embarrassing, and hard to do things I've done in my 75 years? NOTHING took as much guts as going out dressed as a female that first time!:devil:

[Debs]

my wife is a dadt, i do slide the odd comment in there, like i love that dress etc. but its like water off a ducks back and falls on deaf ears, but saying that I have a static caravan near the lakes, and she has no problem with me going up to that and dressing, im here on my own now. So there is life after frocks. As for sex, not touched her for over 15 years, we have a queen anne bed ginormous , occasionally i will brush against her, her reaction is brutal, never go near me !!!! look. lol, but overall happy if you ever want to visit , drop me a line.

[DaisyLawrence]

While it has raised comments in the past on the forum , my wife and I both agree if it wasn't for my dressing needs I would have gone off and had affairs . She asked on more than one occasion why I hadn't done so . Even the thought of my dressing keeping me faithful didn't make much difference to it being accepted .

You know the funniest thing just happened, I must have read that wrong because I thought for a moment that you were complaining that your wife did not thank you for crossdressing instead of inevitably engaging in multiple affairs! I almost said that some women are so ungrateful and don't know how lucky they are. Silly me.

[char GG]

This is just information that I gleaned from 20 years working at a company of 80% women. Most women were wishing they had sex but didn't like how they were treated by their self centered husbands (and ex husbands) or the men had ED. The age of the women didn't change the way they felt.

[AlexisB]

For me there had always been a connection. When the intimacy drops off, the need to dress increases. It's like a law of nature.

[stephenie3756]

Interesting topic and discussion. For me, my wife and I stopped all intimacy 8 years ago. She found out I was a crossdresser about 8 years into a marriage. She tried to accept it at first but after four years, she could not. We ended up in therapy and I purged EVERYTHING. that lasted for 6 years and then I decided I was hurting myself but not dressing. So I went back into the closet and started building my collection over again. But this time, our intimacy had come to a complete halt. The best we do it hug each other at church. My collection of clothes, heels is probably 10 times what it was before I purged. i have reached a point to where I have run out of space to store and hide my items. My collection could start a small clothing store. So my dressing is very strong with my non-acceptance of my wife. Somedays, I wish I had found someone that would have appreciated the feminine side of my. But 25 years ago, there was not today's level of acceptance. glad to have all my sisters here in the forum.

[krissy]

My wife had relationships with women before I met her when I found out I thought I had found my soulmate. boy was I wrong she wanted an old fashion man.. we tried to work it out her allowing me to dress and even have her girl friend do my makeup.but after the night of the makeup job she freaked out told me she couldn't stand to see me that way .we broke up for 6 months then she told me that she loved me and wanted to work things out so we got back togeather.after a year and her buying me clothes and helping me dress she told me she couldn't deal with it that I could still dress but not around her.me wanting to dress any way I could I accepted it. but thru the years.i had to hear this [if you were a real man you wouldn't need to dress or if a man was here! this went on thru out our marriage.to this day I still dress but in private we are still married 39 years .but now that im older I feel I have lost my chance of ever having that person in my life that I could share my whole self with.i doubt I will ever leave this marriage.but just once in my life I would love for the person I love to hold me while im dressed and tell im loved :daydreaming: all of me not just the man part.im more than just a husband and grandfather ,Thanks for letting me vent

[Teresa]

Daisy,
I may be fit but didn't say I could manage multiple affairs . No matter what her thoughts were I was in a no win situation .
In an exchange of heated Emails recently I did ask which aspect my family find it easier to live with , knowing I'm out as a CDer or knowing I have a new woman on my arm . I said as far as my family are concerned I'm actually doing less harm with CDing than parading a new female friend under their noses .

The sad thing I'm still having to explain myself to them for my actions no matter what lifestyle I choose .

[Rhonda Jean]

Wait! Teresa has a new girlfriend???

[stephenie3756]

krissy - I hear ya and understand. I too would love to be loved while I am dressed since this is who I am... but being married for 25 years, I too feel that i have lost that opportunity. Dressing in private or when I am on business trips.

[Leslie Langford]

What??? Wait???

Teresa! - you can't just slide that juicy tidbit about having a new female friend into a run-of-the mill post in this Forum as a kind of "by the way..." and expect to get away with it. :doh: This is MAJOR NEWS! :eek::eek: We need DETAILS on this! You have been an inspiration and role model to many of us here, and now you've seemingly taken it to a whole new level. But before I say anything more...Congratulations, and well done!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Teresa]

Rhonda/Leslie.
It would be a lovely thought but you have read it wrong , my meaning was what would my family prefer me to do, which of those two choices are more acceptable to them ?

Then saying that I am working on finding someone just to spend time with for an occasional meal or a drink , like I keep saying , " never say never !" It does appear there some women who are happy to spend time in a CDer's company .

[Karen RHT]

To your original question Leslie, it was the dreaded menopause that led to the lack of intimacy in our lives, not my crossdressing.


Karen

[Rhonda Jean]

Teresa,
Darn it! I feel let down!

[Teresa]

Rhonda,
Don't feel let down I have exchanged phone numbers with a lady so maybe watch this space !

[abby054]

No, not at all. My wife got married to have kids, pure and simple. No other reason. When younger, she would track her body temperature twice a day with an extra accurate thermometer. When she identified optimum time and temperature, she could not get enough for a couple days. It was feast or famine. When she hit age 40, she decided that a woman her age and weight should not have any more kids. And that was the end of her interest in sex. Cold turkey. She knew about my CDing by age 25 and hates it with a passion, but she never brought that up when discussing sexual activity or when engaging in it, ever. BTW, we have only one child.

[Stephanie47]

My situation was a little different than most I have read here. In my youth I had dabbled in my mother's lingerie draw. My interest was kindled by the love of nylon, specifically nylon slips. My interest waned and everything was fine with me. Back in the 1960's to be a cross dresser was to be a homosexual. A very confusing time for me. Anyway, after college Uncle Sam sent me an invitation to spend some time with him, and, see the world. Or rather a very limited geographical area better know as I Corp in the Nam. Wounded twice! How's that for putting something manly on a resume for a "real man." Met my wife while in the army. Life became great. There I was a 175 pound muscular, six foot two, wavy blond headed guy. My future wife had to make it known to her friends to keep their grubby paws off me. I was taken. So, a nice guy for someone who had been treated like dirt by male friends. No alcohol outside of a social drink. Definitely no drugs.

Somewhere along the way my love of nylon was rekindled. As a honeymoon gift I had bought her a very sexy white nylon peignoir. However, not really knowing about women's sizes I bought one that was too big for her. One night when I was thirsty I headed to the kitchen to guzzle some water. I picked up her nightgown, which after a nice romp in the bed she usually discarded. Something about sliding around too much on the satin sheets. Anyway, I tried it on in the kitchen. Alas, she pops in a find me wearing it. Questions. I fessed up I loved the way it felt so I wanted to try it on, which was the truth. Anyway, over the course of several months nylon gowns were incorporated into the bedroom. I had my own black floor length nightie as well as a knee length pink peignoir. Also, a red peignoir a friend gave to her which was to scratchy for her. Me too! I discarded it also. She bought me some hosiery and a garter belt. It was not an every time thing. Just sometimes. When our son was born she asked me not to wear it to bed since our infant son slept in a crib in the same room. Hazards of a one bedroom apartment. Fast forward to moving across country. Into a three bedroom house. Add a daughter, who unexpectedly yanked a vivid red Vanity Fair bra out of the bottom draw of my armoire. What's this says my wife. "Why would a man who has nothing to pack into a bra want to wear one?" "The Talk." Well, kinky sex with a nightie was different than cross dressing.

For the longest time she told me to NOT buy her sexy lingerie because she was sure I was thinking of myself wearing the clothes. No, she was a dynamite hot woman. I loved the gift wrap on her. She cooled off to sex for a long time. Once the initial shock over several years was over I think menopause crept in. Then it was a really bad back. Followed my cancer treatment. Hard to get interested when you hurt all the time.

My interests in expanding my cross dressing was due in part to rejection which was stressful. Throw in some issues coming out of my "manly" days as an infantryman, like seeing too many guys shot, blown up and otherwise killed, cross dressing became a hiding place. Yes, there is still a lot of love in the relationship, but, the physical aspect is limited. Not being able to wear women's clothing whenever I want or need is not torturous for me.

One thing of note I did read on this issue is the fact many wives, who have never seen their husbands dressed, have a mental image which interferes with her ability to see her husband as a "manly" sex object.