Gendered Pronouns and the MIAD (or other non-binaries)

[Asew]

For those MIAD (man in a dress) or other non-binaries, how do you feel about gendered pronouns?

Personally, I am a MAID (well usually a man in a skirt with a t-shirt), and the first time someone use a feminine pronoun on me I was taken back. Actually taken back to all the gender based bullying I received growing up. But I didn't correct them since it didn't seem worth having the conversation. But at least they weren't being mean like the school time bullies. But hearing it a few times now it doesn't surprise me or bother me anymore. I notice I don't use many gendered pronouns for myself very often, but if I do it is always masculine or genderless, never feminine. I just don't see myself that way.

What sparked this thread was I told my son "thank you sir" when he handed me a butter knife I asked for. And I thought why did I need to add the sir? I feel like it is way to show some extra respect, but it also is a gender reinforcement. Ugh, the things I think about randomly :)

[Micki_Finn]

The language is what it is. It would be nice for our community of all pronouns were gender neutral, but unfortunately they’re not, and Personally I’m not a fan of all the “new” pronouns that have been invented, and “they” and “them” can be confusing in context. Honestly as someone that regularly gets misgendered pronouns when in male mode, it doesn’t really bother me.

[Lana Mae]

I agree with Micki! Dressed as Lana Mae, my counselor mis-gendered me twice and then asked if it bothered me! I told her no as it is still me! (gender me) I am not hung up on pronouns and think the new ones just cause more confusion! IMHO Hugs Lana Mae

[Robertacd]

I have been called sir in DRAG and ma'am in DRAB more than once.

It's not the pronoun per se, but the tone in which it is used. So I don't say anything unless their tone deserves a response, good or bad.

[Wildaboutheels]

Clearly some people want or need labels and others don't need or dislike them. Understandable, given that some folks do well (or even prefer) rowing alone and others find that their worst nightmare.

They don't bother me one way or another. MIAD does not fit me but I am not bothered by the term. Perhaps UCDer (Unorthodox) might be more accurate.

Confusion or irritation is a given at this Forum being that many cannot agree on even what makes someone a CDer.

If a GG wears men's jeans is she a CDer? Maybe (because of her "build") they just fit her better.

Nothing wrong with your eyes.

[Patience]

For those MIAD (man in a dress) or other non-binaries, how do you feel about gendered pronouns?

Personally, I am a MAID (well usually a man in a skirt with a t-shirt), and the first time someone use a feminine pronoun on me I was taken back. Actually taken back to all the gender based bullying I received growing up. But I didn't correct them since it didn't seem worth having the conversation. But at least they weren't being mean like the school time I'm sorry that your experience brought back bad memories and feelings, but it is not a negative thing for someone to acknowledge the femininity you’re projecting when you go out wearing a skirt. I had to be wearing a great deal more than a skirt before anybody maa'm-ed me. I’m actually kind of jealous.

We can’t blame some well-meaning members of the public for being confused when they come across us, and, by doing what we do, we're, whether we like it or not, opening ourselves up to comment and criticism. People can’t always be prepared to meet you, but you can be prepared to meet them.

Imagine possible scenarios and what people might say to you. Imagine the best possible responses to those comments and memorize them so you can bring them up if the need arises.


What sparked this thread was I told my son "thank you sir" when he handed me a butter knife I asked for. And I thought why did I need to add the sir? I feel like it is way to show some extra respect, but it also is a gender reinforcement. Ugh, the things I think about randomly :)I can’t get inside your head and I didn’t hear how you said those words, but guys call other guys “sir” casually all the time. Unless there’s something you’re not sharing (which you have no obligation to do, btw), I don’t see why you’d make a big deal of such a trivial event.

As for my feelings regarding pronouns, I think we can get along with the ones we already have, thank you.

[Kelly DeWinter]

.... I am a MAID (well usually a man in a skirt with a t-shirt) ....

And here I always thought that would make you a Scot.

All kidding aside, the first time i'd heard the term MAID was on this site. I'm not sure if it's made it's way to a Label yet, but knowing this community it's probably here to stay. At some point it will probably get suggested as a 4th gender and attach gender pronoums like me,mhe,mhem and mheirs. There will be threads devoted to the definition of the meaning to be a MAID that will war back and fourth until a moderator makes it a sticky thread. Books will be written such as the infamous "My husband wore Kilts but was really A Main In A Dress" 4th edition Irvington Press.

Major celebrity's such as Sean Connery , Johhny Depp and Sean Penn wil come out as MAID's and embark on sweeping campaigns for MAID rights.

Talk about random thoughts ;)

[t-girlxsophie]

The previous time I was on this site (was off a few years before returning last year) there wasn't a name for MIAD so that is a major step forward in itself,I would say.

Sophie

[Jaymie]

I don't think I understand this question. I'm not a man in a dress but rather a pretty girl (well women) in a dress! I would take offense if the pronouns are not consistent with my appearance.

[Rhonda Jean]

I'm with Kelly!

How in the world is the general public ever going to be able to satisfy everybody? Pretty sure I would have used a female pronoun and thought I was being very enlightened, progressive and supportive in doing so.

[Rachael Leigh]

As one who considers myself non binary but presents feminine looking as in makeup and somewhat gender nuetral clothes
I really don’t mind being called male pronouns as my look is more male but if im wearing my wigs and full on female look then yes I prefer the female pronouns but if it doesn’t happen it’s not that big a deal

[docrobbysherry]

I have a mirror. I see a MIAD. While I'm pleasantly surprised to be "Ma'am"ed by a waitress or SA. Being called ANYTHING politely, "Sir", "Mister", etc. is just fine!

What I hate is, "Dude", "Bub", "Boss", "Hey u", etc. sets my teeth on edge, no matter which gender I present!:Angry3:

[GeorgeA]

The previous time I was on this site (was off a few years before returning last year) there wasn't a name for MIAD so that is a major step forward in itself,I would say.

Sophie

You are right. It was started be me in July of last year in a post `Are you a MIAD`.

It seems to have caught on to describe a man who wears dresses, skirts etc. but does not emulate women. Of course there are variations and degrees as how much femininity is expressed. In my case it is only clothing, no makeup, no wigs, no jewellery, no women`s shoes, no pronouns, no mannerisms. I also have facial hair.

For many years, on this site, I felt that I don`t belong here with all those aspirants to `Beautiful Womanhood`. Yes, I was a crossdresser, but different from most here. By creating a notion of a `MIAD` I seemed to have liberated myself and now I feel more at ease in expressing opinions. I am who I am: a MIAD. That allows others to know that my pronouncements coming from someone who does not share the general idea of crossdressing as attempting to look and behaving like a woman.

By solving my problem I seem to understand better those others and have more empathy towards them.

I am really pleased by the number of people who seem to share the idea of MIADhood and are commenting on their own situation and many variations of their activities. We are all same yet different.

[t-girlxsophie]

Doc Wait till you come across a Scottish person and they call you "Hen" :D

Sophie

[DaisyLawrence]

Indeed Sophie, or, more locally in the UK: Duck, Hun, Love, Pet ..............................

The list is as long as the number of 'regions'. :)

[Robertacd]

The previous time I was on this site (was off a few years before returning last year) there wasn't a name for MIAD so that is a major step forward in itself,I would say.

Sophie
You are right. It was started be me in July of last year in a post `Are you a MIAD`.



Maybe recently but I remember Man In A Dress being used here years ago it just never caught on before, or it did for a while and faded away.

In fact that used to be someone's posting tag who came here and posted regularly about how he was just a man in a dress and nothing else.

I still don't understand why we need to come up with all these special labels for ourselves and others anyway.

[Rhonda Jean]

To many, "man in a dress" is derogatory. I'm not sure how you're supposed to tell on the street how someone would like to be referenced.

I've said before I don't get the miad thing, but some of the things I do or have done are probably equally confusing to the general public. Back when I had hair down to the middle of my back I was sitting in a little mall sandwich shop with one other customer. I'm sure I'd done something to my hair, rolled it or straightened it, I don't remember. I do remember I was wearing tight jeans, heels, makeup and nail polish, carrying a purse, but no boobs. The other customer (a lady) struck up a conversation and asked my if I preferred to be referred to as male or female. Guess that's how you find out. Turned out she was a hairdresser at the J.C. Penney salon in the mall, and I started going to her until she moved on to another salon and I lost track of her. BTW, my answer was female, and she stuck with that even if I went in in total male mode, which sort of made my own head spin, not to mention other people who heard it!

[Kelly DeWinter]

Rhonda opened up a valid point, One I had not wanted to mention, because wen a thought goes against a threads popular sentiment, it kind of gets dogpiled.

One of my first thoughts when I heard the term MAID, was someone who has given up, out of the closet, yet unwilling to peek out the front door. My sediment is not meant to be derogatory. It's like expectations were set to high, and because they were not met right out of the gate then i'll just settle for "Man in a Dress".

We also have to acknowledge that every few years fashion designers trot out the "latest fashion trend" "Men in skirts" but sadly it dies from lack of interest mainly because of the ridicule level. Ive read articles where people in public typicicly endure taunts of "fag", "transvestite","lesbian","queer".

[Bea_]

i totally identify as a man in a dress. Since I wear a full beard, anyone responding/referring to me with feminine pronouns would have to be clearly confused.

Since i wear my gray hair to the middle of my back, I've had a waiter come up from behind when sitting with my wife and ask "What would you ladies like?". Then he came up to the point where he could see my face and I quickly got an immediate apology. I wasn't offended.

[Teresa]

Asew,
personally I hope I leave no doubt how I prefer to be addressed but human nature being what it is we all make slip ups sometimes . If it's an innocent mistake then it doesn't bother me , so far I haven't had any comments with intentional malice but I do my best to integrate into the community , the fact I'm comfortable with my appearance others are very genuine with their acceptance . I have to say again only today during a conversation with my neighbour while dressed that she felt uncomfortable with MIADS she had seen in town . She then went on to tell me what her granddaughter said after she met me , she is only six but realised from my voice the situation but had to ask if I was a man why was I dressed like a lady . They went on to explain and then she said , " I don't really care because she makes a lovely lady !" I thought that was really touching for a six year old !

[Wildaboutheels]

FACT. I have been out over 500 times easily since 01. If not 1000 times. Dressed wrong.

Other than a few encounters with teenage girls, I have never had a problem. It's easy enough to educate those young clueless ladies or simply ignore them.

Rarely have I gone a month w/o a genuine compliment. Sometimes 2 in one outing.

Translated, I have "passed" as a Human for 17 years. I have no idea what they think about me nor do I care.

The world/Joe Doe public is NOT out to get us.

Most folks do not/will not care. WHY on earth would they?

What they will probably care about is any INTERACTION with you. How you treat THEM.

I have never been referred to as Mrs. or M'aam not that it would matter to me.

[Rachelakld]

I recently saw a bearded man in a floral skirt.
There was nothing feminine about him.


For me, I don't have the energy to care about pronouns, I prefer to live in the NOW, enjoy the NOW even when others are out to be nasty about my appearance.

[susan54]

Here we seem to be concentrating on our own feelings on gendered pronouns. The reality is that if you go outside exhibiting aspects of both genders other people are the ones with the problem because they do not want to upset you and this troubles them. People genuinely do not know what to do and we should take this into consideration. I do not mind - I get addressed as Susan even when I am completely male by people who know me as Susan. Female pronouns when I am completely dressed are pleasant but not insisted upon because I do not identify as a woman at any point. If I am referred to as she I take it as a tribute to my acting skills while in reality it is simply the more convenient gender for the other person to use. Until neutral pronouns are in regular use (so probably not any time soon) we have to recognise that if we present ambiguously we ARE giving other people a problem unless they ask which pronoun we want.

In the UK males are often addressed as 'mate'. I have been called 'mate' by a taxi driver in York when fully dressed and I mentioned this to the hotel staff. One of the women said she was often addressed as mate by men and I then began to see it elsewhere. If you are in the UK you could watch The Chase. Bradley Walsh often addresses women contestants as mate.

Never got this American thing of calling your father sir. In the UK this seems to happen only in books and in families that export their children to private schools. I would never call anyone sir and would never expect to be addressed as that socially. It is used in places like shops purely for the convenience of the staff and additionally conveys courtesy. The worrying time is when it is used to impose an inferior status on the person expected to use the term.

[Teresa]

Susan,
I had the mate label in a car park , I was waiting to reverse into a parking slot but the guy in the next slot said I could go ahead even though he was trying to get his passengers out . So I had be careful . I got out and started to walk away when he said , " Didn't get it very square did you Mate !!" So I replied , " What do you expect from a blond !! "

[phili]

I just listen for the tone used instead of worrying about word choice. ma'am has been used by someone clearly trying to do the right thing, sir by those who are going with their first habitual reaction, buddy by someone trying to be friendly, etc.

And since the goal is relationship affirming, I just try to reply without a similar generic term, just speaking warmly and trustingly.

[Lucy23]

I identify as a man in a dress (or skirt for that matter). I'm not out, but in case that happens one day I know that being referred to in feminine pronouns would feel awkward. I wouldn't be offended should that happen and would gladly explain, but actually it's the people's response upon seeing me in the first place I fear.

[GeorgeA]

Maybe recently but I remember Man In A Dress being used here years ago it just never caught on before, or it did for a while and faded away.

In fact that used to be someone's posting tag who came here and posted regularly about how he was just a man in a dress and nothing else.

I still don't understand why we need to come up with all these special labels for ourselves and others anyway.

I don't claim that I invented the term only that its acronym after I used it seems to have become a handy tool to express the idea of "man in a dress" or skirt.
The labels are useful to distinguish different sub-sets. When I say that I'm a crossdresser some may think that I impersonate a woman, breasts, hair, shoes etc. but when I say: I'm a MIAD a completely different image is perceived. When I express an opinion it matter a little more whether it's coming from a regular CD or a MIAD. At least it matters to me. I feel more liberated to comment on subjects that I hesitated in the past.

[Wildaboutheels]

It's an inescapable FACT. Something easily proved that there are always some percentage of "full presenters" here who are not happy with "partial presenters" going out in public. Some are more tactful of their opinions than others. Many obviously wish we would not do that.

Quite a few of these have never been out in public even one time (dressed) because they "know" how the RW world will react.

This ^^^^ kind of attitude helps no one.

[Chloe St Clair]

Speaking as a 'full presenter', I for one applaud what Salerba, Asew, Phil, & the other MIAD's are doing. Their courage to be themselves helps pave the way for the rest of us to be accepted when we do venture out of our closets and into the real world.

They will always have my heartfelt thanks! Should I have an opportunity to meet them I will happily express my gratitude in person!

[beckypanties]

I recall a variant of "man in a dress" dating back at least three decades, namely "(male chicken) in a frock". Whatever the label, I'm very much on the milder end of the crossdressing spectrum. In other corners of the interwebs, I have felt a little intimidated by the vocal CDs who are able to present as truly passable. I can admire their art, but it is not something I need to replicate.