What constitutes "dressing"?

[Bea_]

A question and follow up question were posted as to how often we dress. The responses got me to wondering "What constitutes dressing in our minds?". Since I'm pretty much MIAD, ANY clothing from the other side of the aisle is dressing for me. Since i wear panties probably 360 out of 365 days, I pretty much say every day.

In front of my wife, I wear women's nightshirts or pj's to bed pretty much every night. Depending on weather, I'll put on short shorts or leggings around the house and back yard. Occasionally, a skirt or dress. At home, I am pretty much ALWAYS in SOMETHING indulgent.

[Krisi]

That's a valid question. Some of us just wear women's panties or maybe women's jeans and consider that to be "dressing". Technically, I suppose if you're wearing any women's clothes you are "crossdressing". I think for most of us, "dressing" is much more than that. Wig, bra with forms, padded hips and butt, dress or skirt and blouse and women's shoes. And at least some makeup and lipstick. In short, trying to look like a woman. I am in that group.

Obviously, we are all entitled to do it the way we want to and call it what we want. It does mess up any sort of polls unless "dressing" is defined for the poll.

[DaisyLawrence]

Sorry but if no-one else can see it, I don't see how it is crossdressing in anything other than your own mind. Panties? Crossdressing? Seriously? Even womens jeans are just jeans at the end of the day. No-one has ever noticed that my super skinny jeans are from the womens department, they sell them for men as well these days. Now a skirt or dress, well that is crossdressing for real. If it is hidden then it goes without saying that it is NOT part of your gender expression. In fact while on the strangely popular subject of ladies underwear lets just get a few things straight, no they don't fit men, no they are not more comfortable than underwear designed for men, no they don't let you get in touch with your 'inner woman', and since no-one can see them they are not part of your gender expression, period. They are a fetish, a turn on, a kink, nothing more, nothing less. If you like them, great. Sorry Bea but wearing panties 360 days a year does not make you a full-time crossdresser however much you want it too. :)

[Gillian Gigs]

I would sum it up like this;
If someone is playing a sport, on the playing field, they would be a part of the game. In football, whether a player is a forward, midfielder, on defence, or the goal keeper, they are all footballers! Each plays their part in the over scheme of things, and another player can't say the other is not a footballer just because they are not doing the same thing that their position, or place requires.
Hence if a person wears clothes that are normally worn by the opposite sex, then they are crossdressing. The lines are getting blurred in todays society, especially with women and younger men are now trending that way also. Sexism, or sexist behaviour has no room in a society that says all are equal.
So who's the idiot that made up these rules anyhow...lol

[Tracy Irving]

I have yet to come across a definition stating that "one must wear a skirt or dress that others can see to be considered a crossdresser".

[DaisyLawrence]

I did not state that Tracy. I simply stated that if people can see some obvious cross-gender clothing such as a dress or skirt then clearly a man is crossdressing but if he is simply wearing invisible panties or similar hidden items he can only be crossdressing in his own mind (as his mind is the only one that knows of it). If he wants to call that crossdressing then so be it, but not all will agree.

[Charlotte7]

Daisy, a touch harsh perhaps (#3)?

This is a difficult question to answer but for what it's worth here's my thoughts on this. In this context, on this forum, self-declared 'Male to Female Crossdressing', dressing is whatever anyone wants it to be, if you do it, if you're a born male, if you have no intention to transition, (at that time, things may change), and if it involves intentionally wearing ladies clothes because they're ladies clothes, then, yes it is, cross dressing. To me, it doesn't matter if you do it in private, or in public. It doesn't matter if you do it overtly or if you underdress so no one can see what you have on. It doesn't matter if you only wear a single garment that can't be detected. I'm not going to berate anyone here who just wears panties occasionally as a turn on, because, for them, the implications of being discovered by a partner, colleague, neighbour, friend or anyone else, could be life changing. So if they feel that they are cross dressing, if their partner feels that they are cross dressing, who am I to say otherwise?

What will be different between us as a group are the motivations for dressing, the behaviour during dressing, the extent of the dressing and even the frequency of the dressing. There are, probably, as many motivations for dressing are there are those of us who dress. I really don't think that this is an issue that we need to get too hung up over. At the end of the day cross dressing is what cross dressing is. To use the well worn cliché: if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, then, it's cross dressing.

[Michelle 51]

So with your line of thinking DaisyLawrence if a man fully dresses at home but no one is there to see him he isn't crossdressing.Not trying to be mean but I don't get your point

[DaisyLawrence]

Well yes Charlotte but you ilustrate my point for me, thank you. Yes hidden clothing wearers can claim to be crossdressing but that is the point, it is up to them and only them as no-one else knows they are wearing it. A man wearing obvious womens clothing such as the previously suggested dress or skirt is crossdressing whether he likes it or not. He can not tell an onlooker that he is not a crossdresser.

Michelle, I worded it badly like usual. Maybe the above helps.

[Charlotte7]

But Daisy, your premise is a moot point as it doesn't matter. Cross dressing isn't in the eye of the beholder, it's in the mind of the doer. For example, if I sit here and tap my top hat with my magic wand and then pull out a white rabbit, I'm a magician. That I'm here, all alone in the back kitchen, with only the cat for company, and that there isn't an audience to whoop and holler at my magical prowess doesn't somehow make me not a magician.

[DaisyLawrence]

Point taken. As you say, as far as you are concerned you are a magician. And, when I see you do a magic trick, I too will think of you as a magician. :)

[Robertacd]

The more I see MIAD the more I hate that term.

MIAD sounds derogatory name transgender people call crossdressers.

[Asew]

I know for me, dressing is anything from the women's section that is visible to others. But my wife would consider panties and such dressing too.

Reminds me of a Friends episode where Ross wears a pink/salmon shirt. He claims it is salmon from the men's section but others think it is a pink ladies shirt. So in the eyes of some it kind of is dressing even though technically a men's shirt. But they are also trying to play it up for laughs so you can take it however you want :)

[DaisyLawrence]

A classic episode indeed Asew :)

[Crissy 107]

IMO any of us guys that even just wears white cotton panties is on the cross dressing spectrum.
Crissy

[Stephanie47]

Within the past year our high school granddaughter and her friends were prowling the men's section of Goodwill and other thrift stores for men's flannel shirts, and, for her she was also looking for jeans made for boys. She is petite and larger boys size do fit petite women. Ah, to be blessed with a slender frame. At granddaughter's age my daughter had bought men's jeans because women's wear manufacturers did not make jeans with pockets for women. She wanted a pocket for her slim wallet. Jeans with no pockets usually means women have to carry around what amounts to sometimes a large "trash" bag to keep all the crap women deem necessary to venture out the front door. Ask my granddaughter or daughter whether they are cross dressing and they'll say "no." Why? Because neither has any desire or intent to "emulate" a man.

Why would a man want to wear a bra when he has nothing to pack into it? my wife asked. I suppose there are some men who would benefit by wearing a bra. I certainly have seen totally obese men on the sandy beaches. To me, and others, not a pretty sight. However, a man with no physical reason to wear a bra does wear a bra? Why? Maybe the question should also ask why the man who claims to be a cross dressers does not go "all in," but, rather wears only one or two articles of clothing designed for women.

Cross dressing is more than wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. There is a strong component involved and that is the person is trying to "emulate" a woman. A guy donning an outfit of a woman on Halloween may be wearing the clothes of a woman, and, therefore he is "cross dressing." However, is he a cross dresser? Verb v. noun. Does he want to really emulate a woman on some spiritual plateau. I think not. Does a fetish wear of panties want to emulate a woman on a spiritual plateau? I think not.

What is the real reason why a cross dresser under dresses? When Stephanie comes a calling it's the whole deal. Wig to heels and everything in between. I enjoy being a man, but, sometimes for some unknown reason I feel the need to "emulate" a woman as best I can. So, I do wear a bra although I have no flesh to pack into it. My experience would not be complete if I did not wear a bra. Why do women enhance their bust lines with surgery or padding? Is Stephanie a "flat chested woman" needing enhancements?

Maybe some can shed some light why do you under dress? Before reading about under dressing adventures I had never done it. I tried it. Does absolutely nothing for me. Nada. Nil. Zero. My mind has to be wanting to emulate a woman. When it isn't, it is comfortable men's wear.

[Micki_Finn]

The way I see it, “Dressing” is wearing any article of women’s outer wear (As opposed to just panties or under garments which would be “underdressing”. Getting done all the way up with hair and makeup etc. is “presenting”. Those are my personal definitions anyway.

[Michelle 51]

Thank you Daisy and yes it does.I get where your coming from.As for myself I dress everyday to different degrees.I don't own any guy underwear and often wear a bra and form enhancers even in male mode but when I'm home my wife lets me dress as Michelle so I understand someone underdressing also.

[Bea_]

Sorry Bea but wearing panties 360 days a year does not make you a full-time crossdresser however much you want it too. :)

Wow. I asked a simple question. I gave a tiny bit of information about myself and you filled in the rest. You're wrong in just about every sentence. You don't have a clue about me. I could tick off the inaccuracies point by point, but that wasn't the reason for my question.

[DaisyLawrence]

Apologies Bea, but your OP did state "Since i wear panties probably 360 out of 365 days, I pretty much say every day". Only fair to assume from that that you consider yourself an everyday full-time crossdresser because of the panties. If that is an incorrect assumption maybe you shouldn't have said it so clearly. I also went on to make it quite clear that if you consider that 'dressing' then that is your perogative and fine by me. You asked what we consider dressing and I told you.

[Tracii G]

Bea if you had been here longer you would understand where many here are coming from so lets not get off on the wrong foot.
Daisy makes valid points and while you may disagree don't get all defensive OK?
Its OK to disagree so no need to get butt hurt.
Being up front and honest as Daisy is is not a bad thing because sometimes honesty is what you need to hear.
It may not be what you want to hear.

[LilSissyStevie]

So, I'm not a crossdresser if no one sees me dressed. Thank God! I never wanted to be a whoopsie, anyhoo!

[Tracy Irving]

if he is simply wearing invisible panties or similar hidden items he can only be crossdressing in his own mind (as his mind is the only one that knows of it).

And, to him, the only one that matters.

[DaisyLawrence]

Tracy - Understood

SissyStevie - I'll say it again if it helps, if you say you are a crossdresser then you are. Clearly not for the purposes of gender expression/presentation but a crossdresser never the less.

[Tracii G]

I agree with your last post Daisy.

[docrobbysherry]

Let's be clear about terms here, Bea. Then, maybe we can move on?

I consider wearing nothing but panties every day, a fetish, u r not a CD. But, as Daisy says, if u consider yourself a magician or a CD? Poof! U r one in your mind!:D
There is a fine line between fetish dressers and CD's. U may be one, or the other, or both to yourself. But, something else to others. :straightface:

A closet dresser is one who dresses in secret. If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound? If no one else ever sees u dressed, r u really a CD? If u think so, yes. Altho no one else may believe that.:heehee:

[sometimes_miss]

Sorry but if no-one else can see it, I don't see how it is crossdressing in anything other than your own mind.
Well, we are the most important ones to convince that we're feminine, right? Because 99% of us aren't fooling anyone.

It's crossdressing to us, whether we're seen by anyone else or not.

[LilSissyStevie]

Tracy - Understood

SissyStevie - I'll say it again if it helps, if you say you are a crossdresser then you are. Clearly not for the purposes of gender expression/presentation but a crossdresser never the less.

If I'm a crossdresser because I say so, then who are you to say I'm not or to put arbitrary conditions on it? Maybe I like to present and express my gender identity in private.

[Tracii G]

Now you are speaking semantics Stevie because there is no right answer anyway.

[LilSissyStevie]

Semantics matters. You can't logically say that one is a CD if they feel like one but at the same time say they are not a CD because they don't meet some made up criteria.

[ellbee]

Ugh. Arguing again about the definition of CD'ing.


I will post what Wikipedia says, and try to leave it at that... :)


"Cross-dressing is the act of wearing items of clothing and other accoutrements commonly associated with the opposite sex within a particular society. Cross-dressing has been used for purposes of disguise, comfort, and self-expression in modern times and throughout history.

Almost every human society throughout history has had expected norms for each gender relating to style, color, or type of clothing they are expected to wear, and likewise most societies have had a set of guidelines, views or even laws defining what type of clothing is appropriate for each gender.

The term cross-dressing refers to an action or a behavior without attributing or implying any specific causes for that behavior. It is often assumed that the connotation is directly correlated with behaviors of transgender identity or sexual, fetishist, and homosexual behavior, but the term itself does not imply any motives and is not synonymous to one's gender identity."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing

[Tracii G]

So logically if a woman floats in water therefore she is a witch and she is made of wood.
You can call yourself whatever you want but only you know the truth.

[ellbee]

And for the sake of brevity... :)



"Definition of cross-dressing

: the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex"


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cross-dressing

[LilSissyStevie]

Your response makes no sense. Let's just say that I take the broad inclusive view that one is a CD if they say so. End of story. I don't put any other criteria on it other than that.

[RachelPortugal]

.... In fact while on the strangely popular subject of ladies underwear lets just get a few things straight, no they don't fit men, no they are not more comfortable than underwear designed for men,........

This may be the case for you, but after years of only ever wearing ladies underwear, last year my wife persuaded me to buy some male underwear that was not very dissimilar to some ladies "boy shorts" that I had in my underwear drawers. To me, and maybe it was because they were strange to me, the male underwear was not as comfortable, particularly with wider waistbands that keep folding down.

Even wearing ladies underwear every day, to me it was not crossdressing, it was just comfortable underwear. I consider myself a crossdresser but I am crossdressing only when I have the shoes and other outerwear, even if it is skinny ladies jeans/jeggings.

[Bobbi46]

Surely and correct me if I am wrong on this but I thought that any item of clothing intended only to be worn by a woman is then worn by a man surely that constitutes crossdressing so therefore wearing womens panties cannot be deemed a fetish just on its because for a person to at that point just to wear panties might be on the cusp of going further in the spectrum of full dressing. Therefore they are crossdressing whether it is obvious they are a crossdresser by wearing feminine outer wear or not. Coupled with the fact of what one presonaly considers one to be, underdressing or going the whole hog is still crossdressing.

[Crissy 107]

Well, we are the most important ones to convince that we're feminine, right? Because 99% of us aren't fooling anyone.

It's crossdressing to us, whether we're seen by anyone else or not.
This sounds correct to me. Crissy

[ReineD]

IMO, if an item of women's clothing changes your head space somehow, or it makes you feel good, or it just brings you comfort, then you're CDing.

[audreyinalbany]

as usual, I think Reine is right & I still can't believe the amount of energy we expend on this site debating definitions

[Teresa]

Bea,
Lets take the point of any type of CDing . The items used are all expressions of an inner need , some deal with it by a pair of panties , they may want more but circumstances may not permit it . Others like myself can dress full time to deal with TG and GD issues , so underdressing doesn't really mean too much now .

Daisy may be partly right but I don't agree with the comfort or lack of it when wearing female underwear , It is more comfortable if you choose the right fit and style . YFronts and male clothes really are harsh and uncomfortable to me now , nothing to do with the fetish element . I agree with Charlotte , public or private has very little bearing on the basic need .

Why do we have to put down the person who admits to a little underdressing ? Many of us have taken the little stepping stones as we progress down the road , it's partly why I post my experiences now , to give others just starting on the road a little encouragement . I don't understand the put downs from supposedly like minded people . Many of us have suffered the shame and guilt associated with it from wives/partners surely it shouldn't happen here on the forum .

[Bobbi46]

Just panties or just tights or whatever its still crossdressing no getting away from the fact and also a part of ones self expression, how one sees oneself, how one is comfortable at the level they are at.
The straight up and down of it is, it is crossdressing.

[Fran in skirts]

I have to agree with Teresa. We are who we believe we are and no one can say different. I started out with just panties but a medical condition caused me to move forward to skirts. Now I wear almost all clothing made to be worn by a woman. I still wear men's shirts at times. I would wear shoes made for woman but they don't make "Flintone sizes".

I consider my self a man and have no desire to be a woman or try to pass for a woman. I have no problem with those who do. So am I a cross dresser sure, OK but who cares??

Fran

[Tracii G]

Just brings us back to what I said earlier there is no right answer.
Threads like this always end up in bickering and members getting mad at each other.

[Paula DAngelo]

Just brings us back to what I said earlier there is no right answer.
Threads like this always end up in bickering and members getting mad at each other.

Traci,
Just goes to show how much common sense you have and how smart you are. And your points are exactly why I don't bother getting involved in posts like these.

[LelaK]

I used to wear panties because they were more comfortable than men's underwear. Initially I enjoyed feeling feminine in them, but before long that feeling diminished and it was only for the comfort that I wore them. The hems and waist bands of men's underwear (briefs) were too thick for me, which caused the discomfort. Also, panties were usually smoother. I'd love to have the luxury of going all out to look as feminine as possible, but until that opportunity arises, I'm content to wear a miniskirt to get my quota of feminine feelings. On second thought, maybe it's time for my lovely purple dress and padded bra.

[Bea_]

Apologies Bea, but your OP did state "Since i wear panties probably 360 out of 365 days, I pretty much say every day". Only fair to assume from that that you consider yourself an everyday full-time crossdresser because of the panties. If that is an incorrect assumption maybe you shouldn't have said it so clearly. I also went on to make it quite clear that if you consider that 'dressing' then that is your perogative and fine by me. You asked what we consider dressing and I told you.

The second paragraph of my original post DID further the point of the sentence you quote here. Yet you ignored the rest of what i had to say before your rant against me and my kind.

I'd say that, if it were only panties, I probably would not really feel the need to even enter any conversation on this site. Panties go a long way to allowing me to enjoy a little indulgence, (which has VERY little to do with sex for me). They're a stand in for all the things that I'd like to wear, but cannot at any given time, for whatever reason. You can discount that fact and denounce me, but I'll just disagree.

Your response was rude and uncalled for, and an apology with the kind of justifications you give just doesn't come across as an apology at all. Others have characterized your rant as 'just being honest'. Since most of what you said was totally inaccurate for my case, where is the honesty?

I'm not in a competition to out-crossdress anyone.

[Helen_Highwater]

Due to being away on my hols I've come late to this debate so having read the thread here's my take:

I don't know if dressing within the confines of your 4 walls, and by dressing I initially thought anything other than all female attire, constitutes CD'ing as opposed to a form of fetish dressing. But the I looked back on my own development and I was one of those who dressed fully in femme attire but due to the lack of support offered here didn't even dream of fully presenting in public.

So was I a non CD'er? Purely a fetishist? In hindsight I would say no. It was I just didn't have the vision to imagine what was possible.

So now as someone who will present fully enfemme in public when circumstance allows I class myself as a CD'er. If at other time I'm just underdressing in knickers do I then loose that status?

I feel the answer lies more in the individuals desires and aspirations. If your goal is to be ever more femme in your appearance without any sexual gratification element then I believe you can class yourself as fully CD. If you gain a level of sexual fulfillment from dressing then perhaps you're partially there.

At the end of the day perhaps what's needed is a level of tolerance that says if you desire to be even a little bit more femme in what you wear then until society accepts us all for what and how we are, we're all in the same boat. Let's be nice to each other.

[Bea_]

The way I see it, “Dressing” is wearing any article of women’s outer wear (As opposed to just panties or under garments which would be “underdressing”. Getting done all the way up with hair and makeup etc. is “presenting”. Those are my personal definitions anyway.

Thank you Micki. This is the type of information I was hoping for in my original post.

[Crissy 107]

Thank you Helen! I am an underdresser not because I don’t want to do more but that is the level of acceptance I currently have from my wife. I do get pedicures with color at a salon but I am in drab, I know I am a cross dresser. Too bad we actually have to argue to be considered that. Like Helen said, we are all in the same boat. Just my 2 cents worth. Crissy

[Beverley Sims]

Dressing is putting clothes on a naked body.

I would dare to say in the context of your question, dressing in clothing of the opposite sex, or the the opposite gender to which you were assigned at birth.

[Gillian Gigs]

If you throw a rock down a dark alley, and something screams, you know you hit something! To the purists many of us are not CD'ing, so who gives a rip what they think! To thine own self be true, if someone thinks they are a CD'er then to them they are. I came to this site for help and encouragement, and to help and encourage others who seem to be like minded. My dresser drawers and closet show clothing bought from the other side of the mens wear section, where and when I wear them is my choice. To those who go out in public, all power to you, to those who stay at home good on you too.

[Bea_]

If you throw a rock down a dark alley, and something screams, you know you hit something! To the purists many of us are not CD'ing, so who gives a rip what they think! To thine own self be true, if someone thinks they are a CD'er then to them they are. I came to this site for help and encouragement, and to help and encourage others who seem to be like minded. My dresser drawers and closet show clothing bought from the other side of the mens wear section, where and when I wear them is my choice. To those who go out in public, all power to you, to those who stay at home good on you too.

Agreed. Another test would be to ask the SO. In my case, it would be a definite yes. The frequency, for me, is more than she'd like and less than I'd like.

[phili]

I want to reassure any dismayed newcomers that level heads,, warm hearts, and open arms prevail on this site. Anyone who thinks they are a crossdresser is one for the purposes of the Forum! THere is no FAQ about whether you are eligible- just show up and participate and ignore these storms over who is 'better'.

The level of dressing you do or your interpretation of crossdressing is all yours. If your idea of crossdressing is to comb your hair like a woman's when you have some private time, you are welcome here, and yes you are a crossdresser.

In fact, if all you ever do is imagine you are combing your hair like a woman's, it counts!

That's why we share our stories- so we can imagine, too. We all are at a place in our journeys, and we can be justifiably proud of any little step we take to better understand or express ourselves. Criticizing others or parsing their validity is IMHO an internalized and unconscious expression of the very oppression we are all here to get away from. .

[Charlotte7]

To me it all comes down to intention. If you were assigned boy at birth and you wear (even a single article of) ladies clothes with the intention of wearing it because it's ladies clothes, then you are cross dressing.

Simple example, if I wear womens jeans and I wear boys underwear, and t- shirt as normal wear I would not consider myself to be cross dressing. This fits in with the GG side of things and their freedom to wear male clothes. But, if I swap rhe t-shirt for a ladies top and put on womens pants (uk meaning) then, yes, I am cross dressing.

In this, intention is everything.

[DaisyLawrence]

The second paragraph of my original post DID further the point of the sentence you quote here. Yet you ignored the rest of what i had to say before your rant against me and my kind.

I'd say that, if it were only panties, I probably would not really feel the need to even enter any conversation on this site. Panties go a long way to allowing me to enjoy a little indulgence, (which has VERY little to do with sex for me). They're a stand in for all the things that I'd like to wear, but cannot at any given time, for whatever reason. You can discount that fact and denounce me, but I'll just disagree.

Your response was rude and uncalled for, and an apology with the kind of justifications you give just doesn't come across as an apology at all. Others have characterized your rant as 'just being honest'. Since most of what you said was totally inaccurate for my case, where is the honesty?

I'm not in a competition to out-crossdress anyone.

I gave no such rant. You asked a question that, as Tracii rightly says, has NO correct answer and therefore all you can get back is opinions, nothing more. If there are some opinions you don't want to hear then don't asked the question in the first place, problem solved.

My opinion was clear, or at least clearly clarified in the later replies. You asked 'what constitutes dressing?' and I stated that, in my opinion, being out in public in clearly definable clothing of the opposite sex is crossdressing, regardless of what anyone says, and that wearing panties or other such hidden clothing is crossdressing if the wearer thinks it is but in my mind it is often a fetish and I don't think of that person as a crossdresser per se. It is my right to have that opinion. It does not mean I have a low opinion of people with fetishes, it is not a criticism of people with fetishes, there is nothing wrong with having a fetish. You know what, I don't play golf but I can see that many people really really love it so my opinion is that they should get out on the golf course and play as much golf as possible. If I say to them 'I'm not a golfer' they don't go off on one about my anti-golf rude and uncalled for attitude. Why do some members get so upset when you say the word fetish? Seriously, that is a good question because this is a recurring theme here, just say fetish and wait for the response from the usual suspects. What you fail to grasp is why some of us crossdress. I have a non-binary gender identity and I NEED for people to know that I am not a typical alpha male. Consequently I crossdress to one extent or another all the time to express my gender identity to the public. This way they know straight up that they are dealing with a non-typical male and we get off to an enlightened start. So you see crossdressing for me is all about gender identity and nothing else, what I wear when no-one can see me is irrelavant to that and in my own home I will dress purely for comfort (which just happens to be skirts and/or leggings as they happen to be the most comfortable clothes). The concept of underdressing is alien to my motivation to dress for gender expression reasons, quite simply if no-one can see it there is no point in me wearing it just because it comes from a womans shop. If I felt the need to wear panties surruptitiously it would need to be for other motivational reasons, the most common of which is the sexual fetish that so few are willing to admit to here but which is so very common. This is my personal reason for crossdressing and what I think of when I think about crossdressers. If you ask a question that can only have opinion as an answer then my opinion is all you can hope for and all you will get from me. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

In summary, my response(s) were not rude or uncalled for, they were a personal opinion on a subject that has no correct answer. My 'apology' was unsatisfactory for you because, yes you guessed it, I have nothing to apologise for so it's the best you're going to get. IF you are one of the very many members here that have a panty fetish (and no I am not saying you are) then enjoy it, it's not for me but it's great that anyone finds anything that they like, there is nothing wrong with fetishes.

[Patience]

.....

296532

[Bobbi46]

lets not get into a bickering match here, we can go round and round on this for ever, just wearing panties is NOT a fetish on its own and no one can say it is, some members wear only panties because that is the level they are at or because that is as far as they can go with their SO otherwise some of those would dress to higher degree. So for those who have limits for various reasons they cannot be called fetish dressers they are deep down crossdressers. I said in earlier that if someone wears an item of female apparel they are crossdressing, if they like doing that and are unable to progress further then they are crossdressers. I do not beleive that any form of dressing can be concieved as being a fetish. If it was, nearly all of us would be able to stop for long periods of time or in some cases for ever without a need to go back so I do not think fetish should be considered as a valid reason for just wearing panties.

[DaisyLawrence]

Bobbi, there are whole forums on the internet for panty fetishists with thousands of members. Womens lingerie is by far the most common sexual fetish amongst men worldwide. Many many of these men celebrate this interest openly and with great enthusiasm. Many hide it for whatever reason personal to them. Some 'experts' think the majority of men have experimented with womens lingerie for sexual stimulation at some time in their lives. Yes there are no doubt lots of crossdressers with gender expression needs (like me) who feel they can not express themselves, for one reason or another, who can at least get some personal comfort from the knowledge that they at least have on some secret lingerie BUT that does not mean there is no such thing as a lingerie fetish. It is way more common than men presenting as women in the community.

fetish
noun:
a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.

In fact, based on the description above, it could be argued that IF more than 50% of the male population are 'turned on' by wearing womens' lingerie then it becomes 'normal' and could actually therefore not be categorised as a fetish at all. It turns me on, just not enough to motivate me to wear lingerie outside the bedroom. In fact I reckon it may well be over 50% of men that are 'turned on' by such things and we would know for sure if only men were honest when asked about such things.

[Wildaboutheels]

A question with (as usual) a wide variety of responses and opinions and disagreements.

People can dicker and bicker till the cows come home about the term.

The simple underlying and overwhelming matter of the fact is that THERE IS NO WRONG WAY TO CROSSDRESS.

Until people figure out and understand that, they will never be happy.

[Bobbi46]

So where does one draw the line between a fetish dresser and a genuine non sexual urge to wear just panties? surely if someone wears only panties and has no sexual urges but likes to wear panties without being able to dress further although they would like to surely they cannot be classified as fetish dresser, they must be a crossdresser.

[DaisyLawrence]

Bobbi. Indeed you are correct. Only the dresser in question knows the answer to whether they dress for fetish or other reasons, no-one else can 'draw the line' between them.

[Shelly Preston]

To just add to the last note.

No one know and individuals motivation.

I think sometimes we need to think about that before we say too much.

It can be to easy to assume we know the answer.

We are all individuals and deserve support no matter the path we take.