We need a leader-----------

[Darcy]

We need someone in this country to pave the way for us to come out without being put down as perverts. Please someone with money an influence come forward and make a statement on our behave and give us a road to travel to be who we are. I ll donate to elect a candidate worthy to follow. Lets do this ,lets get our shit together so we can live out of the shadows and be free to be ourselves . Name some people you would elect OK

[Julie Avery]

I'd rather endure another 20 years in the closet than see Dick Cheney en femme ;)

[Joy Carter]

Darcy it would never work belive me the society is to far ingrained to laugh a man in a dress. Thanks Uncle Milty, And there are some who think we are just sex perverts and want to get into the ladies room to get a peek. Then we are child molesters and what ever they may think. I for one wish we could clean up our image and be accepted. I want to be in public and interact as a female would at times. I will be long dead by the time that comes around. The only acceptance I have ever felt has been a few internet contacts I have generated. I just want some beauty and grace now and then is that so bad am I wrong ?


Caution Rant By Joy Carter

[Helen MC]

I can't speak for the USA but in the UK we now have several openly Homosexual male MPs in Government and in the Opposition Parties. Indeed Peter Mandelson and Chris Smith who are "out" were in the Cabinet, and we have one openly Lesbian MP, Angela Eagle, who was a Junior Minister for a while.

As to CD/TV MPs there may be well be some who dress in private but none so far have come out. Some years ago a Tory MP was found dead in women's panties and tights (pantyhose) when an autoerotic activity he was engaged in went fatally wrong.

I do know of a former Local Councillor in Bristol who was a M to F TS but she was de-selected by her political party which I feel was a great shame.

Given the three men who could be the next UK Prime Minister, Gordon Brown (New Labour), David Cameron (Conservative) and Menzies Campbell (Liberal Democrat) I would seriously doubt than ANY of those there are CDs!

Personally I feel that at least here in the UK where these days Politicians are held in very low esteem by ordinary citizens, especially youth many of whom do not vote at Elections, it would do the case of CDs and TVs a lot more good if some male Media, Sport or Entertainment star was to come out as a CD than if some Politician did so.

[Bev06 GG]

IGiven the three men who could be the next UK Prime Minister, Gordon Brown (New Labour), David Cameron (Conservative) and Menzies Campbell (Liberal Democrat) I would seriously doubt than ANY of those there are CDs!

Now what makes you think that. After meeting many different T Girls, all from differing backgrounds, cultures and social class, I have now decided that its impossible to spot a Crossdresser whilst in male mode.

I have found myself, however, looking at various famous men and imagining them in a dress and makeup. I wonder if thats the nearest a female has ever come to having a fetish?.
Bevxxxx

[Julie Avery]

Now what makes you think that. After meeting many different T Girls, all from differing backgrounds, cultures and social class, I have now decided that its impossible to spot a Crossdresser whilst in male mode.

I have found myself, however, looking at various famous men and imagining them in a dress and makeup. I wonder if thats the nearest a female has ever become to having a fetish?.
Bevxxxx

Woo hoo, a gg with a fetish for CD's! Hope yer email allocates a lot of storage space ;) And I mean that favorably!

I'd think if you look closely at the brows, nails, and arms, they will tell all.

[Janelle Young]

I vote for Mel Gibson, well liked by the public and a public figure. If he were to come out in public as being a crossdresser I think it would help the cause tons. Do I think it will happen? Heck I have no idea if he even dresses, but if he did.....

[Noel Chimes]

:idontknow: Let's see how this sounds: Mel "Tootsie" Gibson- President
Wesley "Noxzema" Snipes- Vice President and Patrick "Vita" Swyeze- Secretary-of-State. Wong Foo, where are you when we need you.

[Tina Dixon]

I thought Hilary Clinton was a CD+?

[talkwithmelissa]

Don't know who would be a famous canadate, but for us to lose the label all of us need to step up to the plate. Together we need to slowly & safely come out to the public for who we are. Yes I am a hippocrite at the moment but I am working on it.

[Bernice]

IMHO, I'm with Darcy, and TalkWithMelissa on this. This is not a joking matter. Crossdressers should know better. Change may be inevitable, but constructive change only occurs if we are willing to work for it.

Naming names for a potential leader at this point seems highly premature. We don't know who is or is not a crossdresser, holywood casting aside. We need a way to identify crossdressers as friends - not to "out" them of course, but to enlist them in a movement to earn credibility and respect.

No, I don't have the courage to put a bumper sticker on my car that says "talk to me about our CD movement". Ultimately, dozens or hundreds will have to be years ahead of their time, and go first - paying a terrible price in ridicule and derision at the very least, before the rest of us chickens will follow. We're no different than any other oppressed minority in the US, except that we are so closeted that we cannot identify friend from foe, and too often we fail to come to the defense of a fellow CDr who is mistreated.

Shame on us!

Hugs,

Bernice

[miss_sarah]

Agree @ TWM & Bernice somewhat --

Paradism and --ist movements aren't the way for our so-called sub-culture to effect change. Look at any media report of Gay Pride parades, and you'll notice they still tend to point the camera towards the most outlandishly attired couple, as if to make a circus of the event, once again misrepresenting the majority... and if they're on late night television, it becomes quick fodder for the joke cannon to this day. (is the circus event cameraman to blame or the people dressed outlandishly? arguments easily made on both sides, the point being I guess is like the thread about the sister that went to the mall and was tailed by security... any national group event for our cause would likely entice some of the more extreme, which could (and likely would) easily be used against us in media portrayals...)

Grassroots movements, while usually taking a great deal longer to witness any real change, prompts slow and gradual change. I liken it to the difference between injecting a whole shot of meds at once versus a slow IV drip. The IV provides steady gradual doses so as to not overwhelm the body (in this analogy, society).

Not to mention, any large en mass organization of supposedly like-minded people usually results in the cause being distorted as soon as the initial goals are met. Reference some of the whacky off the wall stuff the ACLU takes on, or how the "feminist movement" is perceived in today's society, or the way most African-American (i hate even saying that... they're just fellow Americans for christ sake) that I'm friends with are quite vocal in that the NAACP does NOT speak for them. Nope, I think having a well-known spokesman to lead sign-toting men-in-dresses parades, marches and non-violent protests would probably do more to hurt "our cause" (we'll call it that...) than it would do to further those noble goals. History has a way of repeating itself... ;)

Not saying you were alluding to marches and protests, but I think with any sort of national leadership/spokesman in the mainstream coming out / to our defense and support, those things would almost inevitably follow... The whole "Call to action" bit and whatnot.

[Snookums]

Joy Carter,you left out Elmer Fudd,Bugs Bunny even wore a dress once,and so did Wyle E. Coyote,Super Genius.Come to Utah,go out enfemme,see what real America is like,I'm terrified to go out in a skirt and heels here,I would never make it home alive.The religious right is not,and the moral majority is neither,and yet Utah claims to be acceptable and open to alternative life styles.

[windycissy]

I thought Hilary Clinton was a CD+?

I don't know about that, but I've got nicer legs....

[trannie T]

Too bad J Edgar Hoover is no longer with us. What a spokewoman he could have been.

[Yes I am]

http://www.bradpittfan.com/pics/bal026c.jpg

Brad Pitt did some photo shoots in a dress when he was promoting "Fight Club." People thought it was hot.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

What's interesting is no ones mentioned the leaders the CD community already has. Which is a bad sign because it means that the groups that they lead have become somewhat irrelevant when the majority of CD's aren't a part of them.


Veronica

[Cathy Anderson]

Personally, I think there is a basic problem in that people look to government for leadership. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around: people take the lead, and the government just administers the will of the people.

IMO the best answer: if you want society to show respect/tolerance towards you, show respect/tolerance towards others.

0.02
Cathy

[Jenny Warren]

We need someone in this country to pave the way for us to come out without being put down as perverts.

Which country?????

I'm in the UK.

Where are you?

Jenny

[Delila]

As to CD/TV MPs there may be well be some who dress in private but none so far have come out. Some years ago a Tory MP was found dead in women's panties and tights (pantyhose) when an autoerotic activity he was engaged in went fatally wrong.

it is is unfortunate that the rare public cases of cds are tied in with some autoerotic perversion. We need a public face that is not a pervert

[Khriss]

Izzard..Tula...sure
Dr. Frank-n-furter..RuPaul,J.Edgar Hoover.. maybe not so much eh?
though Dame Edna ,and many others seen to help acceptability?
"K"

[Sarah Rabbit]

I had heard Robbie Williams wears Lingerie. Has anyone else heard this rumour? (P.S. Hey Robbie, if your reading this, No offense!)

Hugs, Sarah R.:bunny:

[Helen MC]

Be careful. I understand he once sued when he was said to be "Gay".

[Teresa Amina]

I thought it was supposed to be the other way around: people take the lead, and the government just administers the will of the people.

That's the Theory, but in practice all governments become at some point the tool of a Plutocratic Elite. Good example of this is the ongoing insanity in Iraq where W&Co. are determined to incorporate the region into the Global Plantation. Things were going the other way for a while in the '70s but since the Reagan Revolution we've all been enchained- some chains are just nicer than others!
But this is really off topic; if the question is a leader who would make it more comfortable for us to be us then we need to look within ourselves. Do I really need the approval of public figures? Regarding personal safety unless you want to live in an even more repressive country don't give anyone
the power to hunt down the idiots who make life hard for us- what's to stop those American Taliban types from using that same power to come after YOU?! Society has evolved tremendously in the last 50 years, we're just in a period of reaction by those who know their world has changed beyond recovery. Have hope, be yourself and be careful!:)

[Teresa Amina]

Dick Cheney en femme ;)

Well what did you think he was doing in that Undisclosed Location?:D

[AngelAshley]

The only way people are ever going to be accepting of it is through education. If you look at how gays and lesbians have become more accepted recently, it's because of the education of the fact that there's essentially nothing wrong with it.

I'd like to see schools teach kids about issues such as cross dressing alonside homosexuality in sex education classes (i.e. "It's OK to be Gay" alongside "It's OK to dress in whatever clothes you like"), but that's probably a long way off.

A good place to start would be the media. Reach a lot of people. Get articles printed in newspapers and magazines, get more CDs on documentrys, talk shows, etc. and just raise awareness.

I propose that everybody who wants change write a letter to their local (or national!) newspaper, talk radio station, tv station, or whatever and try to get some coverage.

[kristine239]

I am very suprised at the posts in this thread. There are many such organizations already working. Look at www.ifge.org and many others. On the activist side there is the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE), GenderPac, N-Tac and lost more. There are 7 major conferences throughout the country (USA) lots of local and national support groups and a lot more.

This question and the answers tells me that many of you are out of the loop on what is going on at both the national and local levels to bring about change. There are lots of films such as Transamerica and She's the man and more.

I eccomend that more of the members here should get involved in the community activities. We already have several national and local leaders working on your behalf including the UN with a major transgender meeting in Switzerland on 3/29/06.

If you need more help on this, please let me know.

[KathrynW]

There are lots of films such as Transamerica and She's the man
She's the Man...oh yeah...a whole lotta TG issues being covered in that one, huh? ;)

[Aileen]

I am not in favor of boys being allowed to wear dresses to school. Schools have the right to ask for a certain amount of conformity from students, in the name of keeping order and avoiding disruption, so as to be able to teach.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I am very suprised at the posts in this thread.

I'm not. What we've got here is a bunch of mostly middle aged men, some of whom are very uncomfortable with their own crossdressing, haven't told their wives, haven't exactly been big supporters of diversity, so they're going to respond the way they did. This board tends towards the "fluff" of transgender behavior as well. NTTAWWT.



There are many such organizations already working. Look at www.ifge.org and many others. On the activist side there is the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE), GenderPac, N-Tac and lost more.

You, me and some of the others on the boards know that, but we're in the minority here. I know how hard Equality Illinois had to work over decades to get that trans inclusive human rights bill passed and signed her in Illinois and I am very appreciative of that.



This question and the answers tells me that many of you are out of the loop on what is going on at both the national and local levels to bring about change.

Yes, they are out of the loop, but how are they supposed to be in the loop if they don't even know that NCTE or Genderpac exists. Traveling outreach tours might help as might mass media.



I eccomend that more of the members here should get involved in the community activities.

Not going to happen. If some bigoted homophobic/transphobic whatever guest editorial gets printed in their local paper do you think the majority of posters here would write a letter of rebuttal/disagreement? Heck no.



If you need more help on this, please let me know.

But....thanks for trying. And I know the lack of support from CD's is frustrating


Veronica

[Melanie R]

I am very suprised at the posts in this thread. There are many such organizations already working. Look at www.ifge.org and many others. On the activist side there is the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE), GenderPac, N-Tac and lost more. There are 7 major conferences throughout the country (USA) lots of local and national support groups and a lot more.

This question and the answers tells me that many of you are out of the loop on what is going on at both the national and local levels to bring about change. There are lots of films such as Transamerica and She's the man and more.

I eccomend that more of the members here should get involved in the community activities. We already have several national and local leaders working on your behalf including the UN with a major transgender meeting in Switzerland on 3/29/06.

If you need more help on this, please let me know.

Kristine,

You are on the money. Here in Houston our TG groups are constantly involved in educating the public. Today I arranged for officials from the GLBT division within the Houston Police Dept. to present a program on safety and hate crimes issues for the Houston TG community next month. We do this type of program frequently with very positive results. Alomost every month there are media events as well as educational programs for therapists, ministers and schools. Two of the greatest TG activists, Vanessa Edwards and Phyllis Frye, from Houston are continually representing our community both locally and nationally. Also in April the Houston TG community has our 14th annual TG Unity Banquet. Last year we had 225 TG's and their SO's, area political leaders, 9 churches and the leaders of PFLAG and the area gay and lesbian leaders attend our banquet.

I guess the question has to be "what are you doing in your community to educate the public about the TG community and dispel the ignorance that so many have".

Melanie

For more info go to www.houstontransgenderunity.org.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I am not in favor of boys being allowed to wear dresses to school. Schools have the right to ask for a certain amount of conformity from students, in the name of keeping order and avoiding disruption, so as to be able to teach.

But the only reason it would be disruptive is because of people's asinine attitudes about gender and sexuality. Besides, boys aren't likely to wear dresses to school because girls don't wear dresses to school these days. Any MTF trans boy would probably just dress just like the other girls,and how would that be disruptive?


Veronica

[Ashley in Virginia]

There seems to be three groups of people here. The ones who are working hard for change, those who want change, but don't do anything about it, and people like me who just dont give a frick.

This is a personal thing for me, and frankly it doesnt matter if I am accepted in the world for it, since I probably will never venture out in it.

Crossdressers in general are a very diverse group and everyone's idea of crossdressing, to an extent, seems to be different.

The point I want to make is, if you want change, go for it. Do all you can and work hard. But dont look down your nose at someone else who isnt doing anything. Personally I am okay with the status quo.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Kristine,

You are on the money. Here in Houston our TG groups are constantly involved in educating the public.

All the stuff you do is good, yes. But you really need to do mass media. Major Mass Media. Not just once every decade but constantly.

Also nowadays, for many T-folk the online community is their only community.


.
Two of the greatest TG activists, Vanessa Edwards and Phyllis Frye, from Houston are continually representing our community both locally and nationally.

They don't do mass media though. Okay, everyone besides me and Melanie here who have heard of these two, raise your hands.



Also in April the Houston TG community has our 14th annual TG Unity Banquet. Last year we had 225 TG's and their SO's, area political leaders, 9 churches and the leaders of PFLAG and the area gay and lesbian leaders attend our banquet.

Does it get major television and newspaper coverage? Are you (or another person involved) going to go on the Houston morning news shows to promote it and Tri-Ess? If there's a local afternoon talk show are you ( or another person involved with the event) going to be on it?


I guess the question has to be "what are you doing in your community to educate the public about the TG community and dispel the ignorance that so many have".

Good question, but I do have to say that's there's more than just the cities. And the folks that live outside of Houston, DFW and the other large cities, feel kind of isolated and beseiged sometimes from what I've read.

Veronica

[Kimberley]

I dont believe a "leader" as in a grass roots movement will do it. Sure there are plenty who could further our cause but lead it?

Throughout history the arts have formented more cultural and societal change than legislation. We are faced with a polarized Western society with a conservative right and liberal left with a huge chasm in between. Where are the moderates? Silenced by both sides!!

It is my opinion the arts community who will garner acceptance for us, not legislators. Plays such as Rent and movies like Transamerica have done more in a short time than ANY so called leader or group has and this includes Tri-Ess. Sorry if I offend some here but it is a truth. The arts community needs to keep hammering at the topic and do it in a realistic light, not sensationalism.

Just my opinions.
Kimberley

[Keri]

Darcy it would never work belive me the society is to far ingrained to laugh a man in a dress.

Caution Rant By Joy Carter

Seems these days the biggest influence on the "public's perceptions" about anything is TV. Gay friends? Two gals and a guy co-habiting? Lesbian MC's?

If one of the TV networks got serious about creating a series about cd relationships - their challenges, their heartaches and their pleasures (just like 'normal' people, eh?) - this slow-IV approach might just do it.

Heck, a good name for the show might just be "The TV Show".

[Aileen]

If one of the TV networks got serious about creating a series about cd relationships - their challenges, their heartaches and their pleasures (just like 'normal' people, eh?) - this slow-IV approach might just do it.


One of the few realistic movies about crossdressers was called "Just Like A Woman". It wasn't exactly a blockbuster.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

One of the few realistic movies about crossdressers was called "Just Like A Woman". It wasn't exactly a blockbuster.

That was also 14 years ago. :-)

Veronica

[KathrynW]

Yes, they are out of the loop, but how are they supposed to be in the loop if they don't even know that NCTE or Genderpac exists.
Most don't know, and really couldn't care less for the most part. That's the honest truth...

Not going to happen. If some bigoted homophobic/transphobic whatever guest editorial gets printed in their local paper do you think the majority of posters here would write a letter of rebuttal/disagreement? Heck no.
Well there's some honesty, at least... ;)
It's simply...not. going. to. happen.
Here's some more honesty for you... You can point the finger and preach "TG Activism" all you want and guess what will come from it? Absolutely Nothing. :straightface:

[Paula Jaye]

Leaders can't be foisted on a movement they come from within. As others have said on this thread what is needed (in all countries) is for a visible movement to exist. This doesn't mean you have to be outed. An example given is to write a response to any homophobic/transphobic/bigoted/etc/etc leader or letter in your local newspaper or local radio/TV. If you feel up to it respond on talk-radio phone-ins. You wont be outed if you use a false name (most of us have that already ;) ). Show support for local gay or TG pride events. That can done in male mode - just stand and applaud the parade. Everyone knows you as a liberal, tolerant sort of guy (if not why not?) so where's the problem.

In NZ we are lucky to have visible spokespersons for the TG community including a transwoman Member of Parliament.

Leaders will emerge especially if there is a group to be led. So let's all be more visible if we can.

[Butterfly Bill]

What I do is go out in public every day and try to make sure everyone I interact with has a positive experience with a man in a dress.

[Leigh Davis]

Doesn't anyone remember Giuliani in drag?

21051

:cool:

[busty]

We need someone in this country to pave the way for us to come out without being put down as perverts. Please someone with money an influence come forward and make a statement on our behave and give us a road to travel to be who we are. I ll donate to elect a candidate worthy to follow. Lets do this ,lets get our shit together so we can live out of the shadows and be free to be ourselves . Name some people you would elect OK Busty well do it i well i well bust there balls i well march and say take a good look they are real 40H and you guys love them,

[Bernadina]

Which country?????

I'm in the UK.

Where are you?

Jenny

I was wondering the same thing. Concluded that she is in Ireland with a name like Darcy.

Was St. Patrick a CD'er?

[HaleyPink2000]

I said this exact thing a while back. I so agree that we need someone to help us like Martin Luther King did back in the late 60's.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Well there's some honesty, at least... ;)
It's simply...not. going. to. happen.

Well I've done the letter writing thing. :-)

[quote]
Here's some more honesty for you... You can point the finger and preach "TG Activism" all you want and guess what will come from it? Absolutely Nothing. :straightface:

That's negative thinking, because TG activism is why ther'es a TG inclusive human rights law here in Illinois. I wouldn't call that nothing.

Veronica

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Everyone knows you as a liberal, tolerant sort of guy (if not why not?) so where's the problem.

Here in the States we have a portion of CD's who aren't liberal tolerant sort of guys, in fact I've encountered some that were/are downright reactionary. There's a disconnect between their CDing (and it's socio-political-cultural implications) and their overall socio-political-cultural viewpoint.


Veronica

[Kimberley]

Veronica,
Yes human rights laws are wonderful things, so are educational seminars etc. Marching in the streets gains BAD press for the most part.
Laws can be repealed or challenged in appeal. Look at the threat Roe v Wade is under.... again!!! And what spawned it? Societal attitudes that pressured politicians. Dont like that example? How about The Patriot Act that has stripped the guarantee of privacy from every US citizen. And that comes from the politicos and is supported by a conservative culture.

Only cultural change will gain acceptance for us, not legal means, not education etc. Good god in Lubbock Texas they cant even teach sexuality in the schools! How can you overcome that kind of adversity? Change will come slowly and gradually but it has to occur at a cultural and societal level. Law is not enough nor is it a guarantee. Activism while it will raise eyebrows can backfire and on us, it is sure to. We can scream from every corner but people wont listen, but they will go see Transamerica. They did see Rent. Other films and plays can do the same but half measures in these wont cut it either. When people can sympathize with a character they will begin to empathize. That is when change will come.

Another 0.02 worth.

Kimberley

[KathrynW]

Well I've done the letter writing thing. :-)

Perfect, Veronica...now, go march in your $400 Jimmy Choo pumps, and you have all the bases covered... ;)

That's negative thinking, because TG activism is why there's a TG inclusive human rights law here in Illinois. I wouldn't call that nothing.

Call it negative, or whatever you want. Until TG activism goes mainstream (which it never will) very little will change. Yep...negative...depressing...etc....but realistic... :straightface:

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Perfect, Veronica...now, go march in your $400 Jimmy Choo pumps, and you have all the bases covered... ;)

yeah I wish I had some Jimmy Choo's. But considering you can buy lookalikes for a heck of a lot less money.

Call it negative, or whatever you want. Until TG activism goes mainstream (which it never will) very little will change. Yep...negative...depressing...etc. :straightface:

Sorry about that...Hug.


Veronica

[Helen MC]

Girls please, if we fight amongst ourselves we only give comfort to our enemies.

Now I live in the real world and DO feel that we need an Iconic Leader. This is the same in Politics and Religion, but I won't digress.

If an ordinary run if the mill and unknown man such as myself plucked up the courage to go outdoor wearing a skirt and as I would never pass, then I would make a statement, draw attention, would probably be mocked and laughed at and would quite possibly encounter hostile reactions and even be beaten up. Would I achieve anything positive for the CD and TV community? I doubt that. Some already sympathetic people would applaud my action, others who are anti would say "That pervert got what he deserved" , most would shrug their shoulders. I am but a small cog in a huge wheel, a "worker ant", a cypher

Now if some Male Celeb, be they from Movies, Entertainment, Music, Sports, Politics etc were to come out and go about publicly in women's clothing and especially if that person was already popular with people then this could be to our advantage. Such a person would also have "minders" to deal equally harshly with anyone who tried to assault them or even give them verbal abuse. We now live in a "monkey see, monkey do" society and it is amazing how many will have their opinions and even actions informed by the behaviour and opinions of the famous. An example of this, albeit an adverse one from our point of view, was the huge revival of the sale and wearing of Boxer Shorts following the Nick Kamen advert where he takes his jeans off in a laundromat revealing a pair of Boxer Shorts rather than the then more usual Y Front "tighty-whitey" briefs. If only he had been wearing a pair of women's panties what a boost that many have given to us?

So we can try to bring about very slow change as pawns in the game or we can look for a messianic leader to expedite matters. I don't think the Homosexuals would have got anywhere at all but for the actions of their Leaders over the years, some of a very high profile nature, in the Arts - Dirk Bogarde, Ian Mc Kellan, Music- Elton John, George Michael, Boy George, Freddie Mercury, various sportsmen, politicians, (at least here in the UK if not so much in the USA where it would be the kiss of death in certain States). So here's hoping for a CD celeb who will appeal to a wide spectrum of people especially the younger generation and lead to a step change if not paradigm shift in public attitudes towards CDs and TVs.

[Jenny Warren]

One of the few realistic movies about crossdressers was called "Just Like A Woman". It wasn't exactly a blockbuster.

I've got that one.

It's great for leaving on display on the shelf to see if anyond asks any questions.

Jenny

[Jenny Warren]

I said this exact thing a while back. I so agree that we need someone to help us like Martin Luther King did back in the late 60's.

Look what happened to him!

Any volunteers? :happy:

Jenny

[miss_sarah]

I dont believe a "leader" as in a grass roots movement will do it. Sure there are plenty who could further our cause but lead it?

Throughout history the arts have formented more cultural and societal change than legislation[.]

It is my opinion the arts community who will garner acceptance for us, not legislators. Plays such as Rent and movies like Transamerica have done more in a short time than ANY so called leader or group has and this includes Tri-Ess. Sorry if I offend some here but it is a truth. The arts community needs to keep hammering at the topic and do it in a realistic light, not sensationalism.

Kimberley

I couldn't have said that better myself! :thumbsup:

I've yet to see Transamerica, but I've been a total RENThead since *almost* the beginning. Jonathan Larson (rest his soul, he went before his time!) included as a main character in the story, Angel, a (as they called her in the PR) "Drag Queen". The portrayal could also be well described as a flamboyant cross-dresser, if anybody wants to get into the label game. At any rate, here's a main character CD/TV who's fairly well comfortable in her current place in life, who presents as both male and female at different times. The beauty of the arts here shines through - Angel was shown surrounded by a group of accepting friends and shown in the most respectful light throughout the play. No phobic comedy, not sensationalized - she was what she was, accepted and respected by all other characters, and the same is simply expected of the audience. It's very subtle, doesn't preach, etc. Many times, subconscious lessons like that, over time, can be much more effective in the long run than any "Shout it from the rooftops - We're here, Accept us already" campaigning.

For whatever reason, those who wish to enact change yesterday and are unwilling to wait for a grassroots/slower changing social climate are usually extremists on whatever their cause.

I'm not saying some sort of revolution or movement wouldn't be effective - at first. My biggest issue with a small group of spokespeople - either alone or allied as an "organization" purporting to represent the majority, if not the whole, is that such groups typically turn into extremist organizations and end up doing more harm than good and, in fact, are not usually representative of the majority opinion of the mass group of citizens they claim to speak for. Nobody speaks for me. Not politicians, not flag-waving protesters, not spokesmen.

There definitely are a number of camps here, differing opinions, which is what makes free states the wonder that they are. I hope that those who are pro-activism can understand that some of us on the other side of the aisle would be no less annoyed at any sort of existing or potential leadership that might profess to speak for all of us than other groups with so-called national/world leadership (which I mentioned in my last post in this thread, and will touch on again now). Does the KKK or World Church of the Creator speak for me as a caucasian? Certainly not. Do pro-women/feminist organizations speak for my wife? She'll say no. Does the NAACP ACTUALLY represent the views and wishes of the majority of blacks in America? No way.

I also tend to take into account (as always, my opinion here) that there's much more FEAR of non-acceptance in society by most of us than actual non-acceptance. I think years of living in closets has us a bit jaded. We've had the hardest time learning to accept what we are and do, that we just simply assume the mass public will shun us (or beat the crap out of, or hurl 'fag' remarks, or...) Granted forums like this aren't any more scientifically representative of our community than national organizations would be, but a quick search of the popular forums reveals many many more "I went out shopping en femme today and nobody even noticed, or if they did, nothing was said/done." than the opposite. Sure, the occasional negative comment - but I've yet to see a "I just got released from the hospital because some redneck beat the tar out of me last week" post. Indeed, those horror stories exist, but I believe they are greatly outweighed by the positive experiences we see so often. I think the common perception of society being intolerant is mostly unfounded. I'm TOTALLY rambling now, but I'm hoping that last paragraph helps to explain some of WHY I feel there's no need for a social/political war for acceptance/tolerance.

Now that I've written all that, I'm tired of this LOL Let's all just go shoe shopping and forget our woes! I'm driving! :D

[KathrynW]

We need a leader?
Ok, after some consideration, I'm going to nominate Alexis Arquette. High profile right now on Vh1's "The Surreal Life" ;)
http://images.zap2it.com/20040706/friends_retrospective/058_alexisarquette_thewaiterindrag.jpg

[Yes I am]

Alexis isn't merely a crossdresser, she's transsexual.

[KathrynW]

Alexis isn't merely a crossdresser, she's transsexual.
She refers to herself as "transgender" I haven't heard her say TS at all on the Vh1 show. :straightface:

[Deborah]

:troll:

[Yes I am]

She refers to herself as "transgender" I haven't heard her say TS at all on the Vh1 show. :straightface:


She talked rather explicitly about her upcoming SRS.

[KathrynW]

She talked rather explicitly about her upcoming SRS.
Seems like everything she said was fairly explicit, but it sounded like it was in a joking kinda way... I dunno... First time I've ever seen her. She looks extremely passable, I'll say that. :straightface:

[Maria D]

If an ordinary run if the mill and unknown man such as myself plucked up the courage to go outdoor wearing a skirt and as I would never pass, then I would make a statement, draw attention, would probably be mocked and laughed at and would quite possibly encounter hostile reactions and even be beaten up. Would I achieve anything positive for the CD and TV community? I doubt that. Some already sympathetic people would applaud my action, others who are anti would say "That pervert got what he deserved" , most would shrug their shoulders. I am but a small cog in a huge wheel, a "worker ant", a cypher

Dj'ya think so? I used to, which is why I never left the house. As I grew in confidence, and possibly developed a 'f**k the world that hates me' attitude, I started ignoring the rules. Nail polish, earrings, a skirt sometimes (but not a skirt to work). I'm sure people looked at me, I'm sure I gave them the day's 'thing to talk about', and perhaps they laughed after I was gone, but I didn't and don't care. I never had trouble myself, was never mocked and never had a hostile reaction. Since transition I still get called sir sometimes, but that's a different game...
Point is, it wasn't bad. I really thought it would be, but nope. The world doesn't hate me.
Well, maybe a bit.

I didn't do it to further the cause, but without exposure like that nothing will change. Without Rosa Parks sitting firm nothing would have changed. I'm not saying anyone has a duty to create change, far from it; if you are happy, fine, go in peace.
But if you want change, then change. Do it, make a difference, offer yourself. Lets be honest, it won't be easy, and if you storm a castle people get hurt. But if you don't try, you can't win.
I know you were hurt by life before Helen, that's sad, and that will sadly keep happening until attitudes change, and they won't change without people standing up and sometimes getting hurt. *sigh*

Just my thoughts. Fear stops people trying I suppose. It did me for years. What a waste of a life, 'if I knew then' etc.

Take care :)

[anemone]

I've read many of your opinions and ideas over the months with smiles and fondness however I disagree that a national celebrity spokesperson will be enough to bring so many of us the acceptance we seek. Many of you spoke regarding the acceptance of gays and lesbians these days and I attribute that to the death of Matthew Shepard. Sweeping law reforms along with societal change took place after his death. I really believe it's going to take a another horrific hateful death accompanied with national news coverage, politicians speaking out against it, and a few celebrities or sports stars coming out of the closet for any real change.0.02

[Kimberley]

anemone,
An interesting take on the progress of the gay and lesbian movements but I would like to throw this one out. Back in 80 this strange thing started killing gay men.... It took years of education by the medical community, political change, outrage by the gay/lesbian community, and THEN the media got on the bandwagon. Sadly I believe HIV/AIDS did more to further their cause than any single person or event. It took all this plus the arts communities (all those movies of the week) to finally start some acceptance of change, particularly when it was discovered to not be a gay disease.
Even with all of this there is still a huge part of society that cant accept gay or lesbian lives. Let's start with the religious communities and the political arenas. I'll leave it there before I rant.

We have a huge mountain to climb individually and collectively and even then it will yield only the barest of tolerance.

Just my 0.02 worth

Kimberley

[HaleyPink2000]

So, your saying by people watching movies things will change sooner than any other way?

HMMM? Ok lets make it mandatory for certain movies to be shown in Highschools. Maybe health class, HUH?

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

At the grassroots level, it's worth thinking about this...

A new poll (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/14157973.htm) finds tolerance for gays and lesbians is growing in California. Why?


"What's driving that attitude change is more and more Californians say they personally know someone who is gay or lesbian," said Field pollster Mark DiCamillo. "Personal knowledge and familiarity seem to provide greater accomodation in the public at large."

I don't want to get side-tracked into a debate over the pros and cons of homosexuality, I just wanted to point out that IIRC similar dynamics were at work in the increasing tolerance of racial minorities. Certainly, my grandfather could be quite bigoted but somehow managed to make an exception that his housekeeper wasn't one of "those people."

So for those of us who are comfortable going out in public, try striking up a conversation with a stranger. You don't have do Trans 101 education, you don't even need to mention that you're a CD/TG/TS (unless it seems appropriate). Just be yourself. Hopefully, that person will tell their friends that they ran into a tranny, but you know they seemed like a nice enough person.

Move enough pebbles and the avalanche begins.

[Lilith Moon]

I wonder if thats the nearest a female has ever come to having a fetish?.
Bevxxxx
I can assure you, from personal experience, that there are plenty of females with sexual fetishes. :happy:

[HaleyPink2000]

So Who is up to the task? By your Ideas?

[Melanie R]

The following shows what can happen when a TG fights for the T in GLBT. Jennifer is a full time non-opt TG who was previously a member of Tri-Ess. We serve together on several GLBT boards in Houston. Veronica, this is how a leader steps up. The article is from the Houston Voice:

Putting the ‘T’ in GLBT
Transgender leaders are taking their place at the lead of Houston organizations

By DEBORAH MONCRIEF BELL
Saturday, March 25, 2006
The Houston Voice

Jenifer Rene Poole, with her bright blue eyes and long blonde hair, might easily be taken as a femme fatale, but one might question her status as an astute political leader. That is until they have a chance to know her. Then they soon learn her insight on issues along with the diplomatic skills befitting her Libra sun sign make her an excellent candidate to take on the position of president of the Houston Gay Lesbian Bisexual and Transgender Political Caucus.

Maria C. Gonzalez, former president, now serving an interim term says, "She is rhetorically skillful, courageous, conscientious, and most importantly, willing to become the new president of the Caucus."

Poole, however, says she was reluctant when first approached several months ago, feeling that she did not fully understand the workings of the group to be effective. Additionally, she had concerns that her election to the top position in the organization might be divisive. So after joining the board and serving as chair of the candidate Development Committee and "working at Maria’s elbow," Poole finally felt she was up to the task. Waiting until after the primaries to pass the torch, Gonzalez nominated Poole at the March meeting with full consensus of the membership.

Gaining that consensus was an important issue. "What we are facing is too big, too important for us to be divisive," she said. "We must be unified if we are to move forward together."

While nominations will be taken from the floor at the next general meeting on April 5, unless someone else steps forward, Jenifer Rene Poole will become the first transgender president of the group.

"Jenifer represents new leadership and new opportunities for us," Gonzalez said. "She has the skills to take the caucus to the next level of leadership in this city. As a transgendered person, she represents a constituency that is fundamental to our strength as a community. Plus, she is a really neat person."

Her goals for the HGLBTPC are three-fold and the beginning of a five-year effort that she hopes will continue long after her term of office is over. As caucus president, Poole wants to continue to work to elect GLBT-friendly and GLBT-identified candidates to office. He also wants to increase active membership from all segments of the community. Another of her priorities is to focus on employment and quality of life issues, particularly a City of Houston Non-discrimination policy that covers gender identity and expression.

Community transformation?

Once shunned as pariah, being neither accepted by the straight community or the queer one, transgendered people seem to be rising to the forefront as community leaders in Houston.

Poole credits the emergence of the Internet as a breakthrough for the transgendered community as it provided an avenue to the sharing of information, the formation of organizations and a means to develop a voice.

Trans acceptance is "somewhat generational," Poole said. "While there is still resistance, there are now more writings, more television, more open discussion. People are much more aware."

Poole sees the movie "Tran America" as a historic breakthrough. "It gave people a true consciousness of what being transgendered means," she said. Felicity Huffman portrayed a person struggling as a parent and overcoming prejudices; the focus was not so much on her status as a transperson but on her humanity."

Poole attributes the campaign of Annise Parker in her first winning bid to gain a seat on city council as motivation for many in the trans-community to be involved in the Houston Political arena for the first time. "That campaign created a welcoming and safe environment for the trans community," she said.

Long-awaited recognition

The list of firsts for Phyllis Randolph Frye, as well as her record of accomplishments, is far too long to chronicle on these pages. She was a pioneering gay activist before there was even something known as the GLBT community. After investing three decades in the movement, Frye has been elected as Grand Marshal—Lesbian for Houston’s 2006 GLBT Pride Parade.

"To be elected by the community as a grand marshal for the Pride events is humbling indeed, but to also be so elected as a transgender is gratifying," Frye said. "Now I look at the inclusive political caucus and Houston’s inclusive-GLBT Chamber of Commerce and the inclusive Pride Committee — and of course, my inclusive law partners at Nechman, Simoneaux, and Frye — and I feel an internal glow.-Being Grand Marshal will be a great joy."

[Kimberley]

So, your saying by people watching movies things will change sooner than any other way?

HMMM? Ok lets make it mandatory for certain movies to be shown in Highschools. Maybe health class, HUH?
*********
I think that the arts can play a huge roll in this at all levels. To gain understanding you must first have empathy. What better way to have people empathize than to have them laugh and cry or see us as human beings first and transgendered second. Overcoming prejudice; That is the real issue is it not?

I dont know about health class but certainly sociology classes where the debate is about people not mechanics. More importantly it is the adult population at large that most needs education.

Kimberley.

[LaceyDee]

I'd rather endure another 20 years in the closet than see Dick Cheney en femme ;)
Wow this is the funniest thing that I have ever read. LOL!!!!!!:p :p :p