The new order

[patti1569]

So I’ve been around the block a few times, and I know this forum tends to be a bit conservative, but I feel like the new generation is blending gender expression and sexuality. I feel like the maximum that crossdressers are 99% heterosexual is staring to fade away. What is the thought about that? Any younger dressers out there willing to chime in? I myself identify as a bisexual transgender person who lives primarily as a male. I know the older guard will staunchly refute this idea, but I think is happening. What do you think?

[AlexisB]

I consider myself straight, but the thought of playing with another dresser intregues me. I live mostly as a male.

[patti1569]

I consider myself straight, but the thought of playing with another dresser intregues me. I live mostly as a male.

Thx! I think you are representing what I am talking about. Let’s not repress how we feel! It’s truly a new world for us!

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Yes! That’s what I’m talking about! It’s a new world we live in. And it’s
Ours!!

[Tracii G]

You do know gender and sexuality are two different things right?
Your new world isn't new at all really because many have been doing that for as long as I can remember.

[Jenny_Marie]

I'm in my 50's now so I'm in the older category, but I agree with you that these perceptions are changing and I'm glad. I don't label myself, but if I did, I would also describe myself as you have. I think it's been found that sexuality is on a scale, nobody is 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual. We all fall somewhere along the spectrum. I also feel that gender roles come from being conditioned and forced to conform to societal norms and I'm thrilled that younger people are not buying into that.

[Susan Smokes]

i am starting to think that most crossdessers are heterosexual may be a little bit off. I am over 50 and live primarily as a male. For most of my life I was 100% hetero, until I started dressing. I now consider myself Heteroflexible,( I know another label ) I can only speak for myself, but crossdressing, has allowed me to express myself in a new way sexually. The most difficult part for me was having the guts to own it.

[Beverley Sims]

Fashions change, lifestyle changes, cars get updated and so does our outlook on life as a new generation comes along.

I agree the twenty year old set of today has a different outlook to the previous generation.

Nothing is constant but change. :-)

[Micki_Finn]

I don’t think the demographics are changing at all. I think it’s just becoming more acceptable in society and therefore more visible, and as more of us come out of the woodwork we’re just seeing the glorious spectrum that has been there all along.

[Rhonda Jean]

What I hope is, and where I think we maybe making a lot of progress is losing some of the rules. Seems like up to this point there have been rules defining everything! If you're straight you do this, if you're gay you do that, if you're trans you do the other thing. Boys can't wear this or do that. Give us a break! Kids (and to a large extent adults) seek a path to follow. A set of rules. I think that's one reason we incessantly seek labels. The internet has opened a lot of eyes. People tend to not be so narrowly defined. I am so tired of all the rules!

[Stacy Darling]

I'm not sure how much younger but!

I'm Blending, I'm Pansexual & gender questionable!

The problem the Old Guard has is the change of Guard
Stacy

[Queen Bridget]

Spend just a few minutes on Fetlife (Fetish dating site) and you'll notice something...

The VAST majority of the CD-ers on there are bi or "Hetroflexible".

The notion that most crossdressers are straight is as silly as saying that they are all gay. It's a spectrum. And it always has been.

[LilSissyStevie]

Nothing has really changed except that people now vastly overestimate the LGBT population. It's about 4% of the population. Yet some CDs like to vastly underestimate the bisexuality among CDs believing that somehow it is more acceptable if everyone thinks we are straight. I've got news for you: gays are more accepted than CDs. If you want more acceptance say you are gay or bi but straight CD doesn't compute with the general public. I went through a phase where I thought I was gay or bisexual. I knew I was sexually attracted to women but then I was also sexually attracted to the idea of being one. My being a woman fantasies could involve either lesbian or straight sex but my being a male fantasies only involved sex with women. I was never attracted to men as a man. In fact as a female I was only attracted to men as a abstraction. People who research this sort of thing call this pseudo-bisexuality and it is a common feature of autogynephilia (AGP). When the AGPs of the world can identify as such without shame then I'll agree that it's a new world. But, until then it is just the same old crap only different.

[Stephanie47]

I'm ancient by anybody's standards. I am amazed by the number of folks in the obituaries who are younger than I. I could join their ranks at anytime. Nothing has really changed over the decades. It's just many more are willing to shed the secrecy and get out in the sunshine. Demographics requires by the nature of the profession the necessity of putting someone or something into a neat box. Look at the census when trying to categorize some persons heritage. Endless list of choices. Same with this quest to stick sexuality or gender express into boxes. Just say what you like to do. Of course, if one has a mission to confirm a belief and you ask a person with a penis between the legs why he is wearing a dress, if you don't like the response, you'll probably say he is repressing his true identity.

If you're a cross dressing man and day dream about making it with a male does it make you a homosexual? Does thinking about killing your neighbor make you a murderer?

I suspect many of the respondents would fail Logic 101 in the analysis of sexuality and gender.

[Micki_Finn]

This isn’t a great data set since fetlife is specifically a site for people with sexual fetishes.
Spend just a few minutes on Fetlife (Fetish dating site) and you'll notice something...

The VAST majority of the CD-ers on there are bi or "Hetroflexible".

The notion that most crossdressers are straight is as silly as saying that they are all gay. It's a spectrum. And it always has been.

[Teresa]

Patti,
Age doesn't really relate to this question but it is well known within our commnunity that most of us are heterosexual . I'm afraid the older ones of us have had to live through misrepresentation within the media . You are as you are end of story ! If it makes you happy and doesn't create a problem with others where's the problem . Fads do come and go but the important thing is stay safe .

Age really doesn't come into it , I had a pass made at me by an older Cder , I brushed it off politely and made it clear I wasn't interested , he's a nice guy and we still get on fine .

Don't forget we were all young once , I could write a book but it might struggle being classified , just because we are more mature doesn't mean we haven't lived !!!

[Queen Bridget]

This isn’t a great data set since fetlife is specifically a site for people with sexual fetishes.

True. But the sheer number of them there says something.

[Cassandra Lynn]

I'm gonna say ditto to what Micki said in her first post.

I also concur with Tracii, we should try to be careful with how we speak of gender identity and sexual orientation together, one doesn't preclude or include the other; which I suppose is why I've always been fascinated and very confused with the folks who say they are straight when in male mode, but have 'thoughts' of bi-sexuality when dressed.
I also firmly believe the maxim that the labels attached to sexuality are generally vague and outdated; the myriad of the human expression in all phases or types are across the board way to diverse to be served by the notion that we are 'only' this or that.


I think it is true that things haven't really changed as much as it's just getting a little (not a lot) more out in the open, but the big changes are still a few decades away in my opinion.

Cass

[docrobbysherry]

I'm really old. Except for when I began dressing at age 50, I've never questioned my sexuality. That I'm simply a straight man. That being said, however:

Over the years I've had some really nice, clean cut young men come on to me. And, I've met some very feminine M to F trans. While I've been tempted to experiment, maybe make out, fool around and see where it goes, I haven't. Because parts is parts!

And, to me there's nothing attractive about male parts!:thumbsdn:

But, I'm 75. And, if I can consider the possibility of experimenting why shouldn't those of u eons younger!?:D

[Alice B]

At 76 I am way old, but I agree with what Jenny said

[susan54]

I don't know how many crossdressers are gay or how many want to change gender but please remember there are lots of us on this forum who are entirely heterosexual and are happy being male. My worry is that female partners who have just found out that their man likes to dress as a woman but insists he is not gay will come on this Forum and get enough evidence to accuse him of lying. We don't need this.

When I dress as a woman and go out I rarely even encounter men and this is fine with me. If you go to clothes shops and restaurants most of the staff are women. The thought of dressing to attract men does not occur to me - I dress for me and to get compliments from women. I like to wear women's clothes and look good in them and there is nothing more than that involved - I don't even imagine I am a woman when I dress up enough to go out.

If you want to go with men - fine. If you are gay or bi - fine. If you want to become a woman - fine. But please don't lose sight that lots of us don't.

[Queen Bridget]

My worry is that female partners who have just found out that their man likes to dress as a woman but insists he is not gay will come on this Forum and get enough evidence to accuse him of lying. We don't need this.

So are you saying that people here who are gay/bi must to keep it to themselves in case someone's wife sees it? Seems selfish to me..... Perhapse if people tell women about their habbit before marrying them, there wouldn't be so much confusion.

[Jenny22]

I'm 84, kinda old, huh! It wasn't until the last few years that I became Bi-curious, just curious, where I imagined under the best of circumstances that, when fully en femme, I might be tempted to please a man as a woman. But, I haven't and may never. But, that feeling is still with me, almost every day as I feel quite flexible on the subject. Maybe you could call me "hetero-flexible". Hmmmm... anew label?

[Tracii G]

I think the majority of CDers here are straight and have no bi or bi curious side to them.
I have been here 10 years and I do pay attention to what people say so thats my take on this population anyway other sites may be vastly difference.
I really wouldn't worry that coming here would make a wife or SO that just found out her man likes to dress is gay.
I see no concrete evidence of that.

[DIANEF]

Not that I have anything against being gay (I have a gay son), but the thought of any physical or emotional connection with another male leaves me totally cold. It just isn't nor has ever been of any interest to me. I would say on this forum the majority of members who identify as cross dressers are probably in the straight camp, though that may be very different on other forums. I don't think a partner visiting here would automatically equate cd-ing with being gay. My son also tells me in the bars and clubs he frequents cd-ers are almost non existent.

[DaisyLawrence]

My worry is that female partners who have just found out that their man likes to dress as a woman but insists he is not gay will come on this Forum and get enough evidence to accuse him of lying. We don't need this.

We don't need this? Really? What do you mean by we, all the good upstanding straight members here? That's what it sounds like. In fact what it actually sounds like is possibly the single most homo-phobic sentence I've ever read on this forum. I was going to add 'and this from a straight crossdresser' but I won't because, you know what, my or anyone elses sexuality is no-ones elses business.

[sometimes_miss]

I have had some homosexual sex act desires, but it's not due to being attracted to men; it's a conditioned response to being lonely and starved of affection, which was only resolved when I was with the older male who treated me like his girlfriend, way back when I was a boy; having sex with him was pretty much the only time anyone ever touched me without hitting me. While I have the desire to be penetrated, it doesn't actually feel good, and I don't enjoy it when it's happening; and I find the scent of a men's locker room, rift with male pheromones, both nauseating and repulsive. I'm sure the psychologists would have a field day with all the maybe's and what if's, but I've been through all of that already. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

If you're not sure who you're attracted to, just go down to the beach. When a hot guy is coming from one direction, and a hot girl is coming from the other direction, which way did you find yourself looking? It's a rare person indeed, who's head will be twitching back and forth like a metronome.

[alwayshave]

Patti, I think what you are seeing is the majority of members here are older straight CDers who have wives who think all CDers are gay. They are not saying you can't be who you are, they are saying they are who they are.

[Connie D50]

I not sure I would call it a new order. It has always been here crossdressers that are not heterosexual. I have seen on this site many of times (post) that ask the questions on or question crossdressers being heterosexual. Many members jump right on that and a sure everyone I'm 100% heterosexual, which is fine but we should not jump all over anyone who is not. I agree with Tracii
"You do know gender and sexuality are two different things right?" that statement needs to be heard from both sides of this discussion.

[Ressie]

I believe that young TG types that cross dress and are bi or gay, are just more visible to everyone thru media sources. There are still young, heterosexual closeted CDs that have no reason to come out of the closet. There are no photos or videos of them anywhere on the internet, so who knows how many there are?

Moreover, I don't think anyone ever thought that 99% of crossdressers were hetero. 90% might be more accurate, but my guess is that the number is even lower. Still, the majority are heterosexual to this day.

[Lygophilia]

I don't think this is anything new. I do find it hard to believe, however, that most crossdressers are straight though, until I came to this forum. I never met a straight crossdresser before in person, but either way, do what you want.

[patti1569]

So are you saying that people here who are gay/bi must to keep it to themselves in case someone's wife sees it? Seems selfish to me..... Perhapse if people tell women about their habbit before marrying them, there wouldn't be so much confusion.
Thx! Was just about to say something to this effect.

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We don't need this? Really? What do you mean by we, all the good upstanding straight members here? That's what it sounds like. In fact what it actually sounds like is possibly the single most homo-phobic sentence I've ever read on this forum. I was going to add 'and this from a straight crossdresser' but I won't because, you know what, my or anyone elses sexuality is no-ones elses business.

Agreed! I felt the same way when I read this.

[LeslieSD]

Patti, it is cool that you are a bisexual crossdresser, just as cool as a heterosexual crossdresser.

The sexual orientation (who you want to have sex with) and gender identity (which gender you are) seems to be two separate things. So there are gay/lesbian/bi/straight transgendered, just like there are gay/lesbian/bi/straight non-transgendered. Adding on top of sexual orientation / gender identification, there is also gender expression (what you like to present as). So there should be at least 8 different combinations (assuming a binary gender / sex world). Bi adds just another level of complexity. And gender fluidity between the binary poles make this a continuum rainbow.

Human is complicated.

[patti1569]

Thx everyone for the responses! Just a few points of clarification and observation. Yes I know gender and sexuality are two separate things. I meant that younger crossdresser are blurring the lines of both gender and sexuality. I base this on the fact that I have been active on other sources of social media where younger crossdressers are expressing themselves. Those outlets (reddit, Flickr, kik, FetLife etc...) are different from this one in that there is not as much dialogue or discussion about any one thought or topic. That’s what makes this site great! I was hoping that some younger crossdressers would speak up here and affirm my thought on the topic. What I found, and suspected, was that the majority of responses were from self described part of the “old guard”. And to be honest, I’m part of that group myself. I joined this forum MANY years ago as a confused younger crossdresser. What I would like for everyone to consider, is that the younger generation of crossdressers are different than the representative population of this site. There have been multiple references to “labels” and a dislike for them. I get that. But this very site is called “crossdressers” forum. That’s a HUGE label. I also feel that the new generation, in my observation, is shifting towards “transgender” as a descriptive word instead. It’s more of an umbrella term. Also, not at all trying to force anyone here into accepting these ideals for themselves. I know that there are heterosexual crossdressers. Just opening the dialogue that I feel that the newer generation may not be as black and white on gender OR sexuality. Thx of you read this far!! Haha.

[DaisyLawrence]

Very well summed up patti. Couldn't agree more. :)

[Charlotte7]

I also feel that the new generation, in my observation, is shifting towards “transgender” as a disceiptive word instead. It’s more of an umbrella term.

Yes, Patti, I've picked up on that too, and more than picked up on it, it's a phrase that I now use to describe myself. I prefer it as it describes me as me, and not what I do.

[Janine cd]

I'm 79 and still have the curiosity of what it would be like to being loved by a man when I'm dressed as a woman. This is probably a feeling that will never go away, but I have never tried to make it a reality.

[Felicia M]

I think Micki Finn really nailed it:


I think it’s just becoming more acceptable in society and therefore more visible, and as more of us come out of the woodwork we’re just seeing the glorious spectrum that has been there all along.