Confused

[Carolina]

As I posted in the general MTF forum, last night I went out as Carolina for the first time. I got catcalled (as a compliment or as a joke, I’ll never know). I was terrified, but elated at the same time. I don’t want to stand out and get catcalls (although if that was a compliment I wouldn’t mind it). I’d love to be a woman who can pass, be part of the crowd like anyone else. Was my skirt too short last night? Should I be even more conservative looking to just pass? Could this be my life from now on? Am I ready to ditch my life as I know it and embark on a new path altogether?

My terror last night is nothing compared to the one I feel when I see what I need to do to become who I think I really am. I’m in the early stages of therapy to help me with my confusion, doing laser on my beard, doing professional mani pedis and waxing my legs. I love all of that, have zero regrets and couldn’t be happier with it. But I also have a wife, college kids and a good job in finance in a highly conservative firm. Thus confusion, confusion all over the place. I dream of HRT down the line and FFS sooner rather than later. Are those all dreams? I wish my therapy sessions lasted longer...

[pamela7]

take your time to find out, discover safe places to be, pace step by step every person who is important to you.

[Aunt Kelly]

Hi, Carolina.
Pamela's right. Take your time to find out. Be certain, before you proceed with anything irreversible or that could put at risk those things you value (wife, kids, career).

Your use of the term "pass" does give me pause. For me, at least, it has never about passing, even before my rather recent ...realization about my nature. It is about being who I really am. Yes, I have always believed in the value of "blending", not nearly so much because I want to escape notice as because I want to be seen and treated like any other woman in whatever venue we're in. I "pass" as a man. I'm really good at it, but it's not who I want to be. I don't "pass" as a woman, but that's who I am, so it doesn't much matter. Oh, of course it will be more challenging, and I am having to make tradeoffs for the sake of my livelihood and the financial security of my wife and I. Those plans have been a significant part of the discourse with my therapist. You should expect to have similar discussions if you find that you truly need to proceed with the path you are wondering about. It starts to "get real" pretty quickly if/when you do.

Neither I, nor anyone here, can give you the answers. We are all different and we all walk a different path. Those paths are ours alone to navigate, which is not to say that we must do so alone. You've enlisted the help of someone who can shed some light on that path, both in front and behind. You'll need to look at both from time to time to find out where you stand.

Good luck to you.

Hugs,


Kelly

[Carolina]

Thank you both for the wise advice to take it step by step. I definitely need to do that.

I was so extremely happy as Carolina walking down the streets as a woman that the following day I went back out, this time entirely on my own. I just loved walking the streets feeling like a woman and not raising any eyebrows (that I could see). I walked for over an hour in my heels in the crowded streets loving every second of it. Now I find myself daydreaming at the office thinking about those moments when Carolina was real.

My longing to pass I guess comes from my need to conform to what is expected of me from an early age. I was expected to excel at school and at boy’s sports, so I did. Expected to marry, have kids, a good career, and be successful. Check all that. But something has been missing all along, Carolina. As Carolina I guess I also long to comform, to be a woman, to be accepted as one. May not be rational but I also want to excel at being Carolina and getting acceptance in the form of passing may be a validation of Carolina.

As you can tell my therapist has a lot of work ahead of her...

Thanks again for your advice and experience, really appreciated!

[KymberlyOct]

Hi Carolina - Most of us that have transitioned were in the same place as you are. It is both scary and exciting at the same time. Things that you plan now will look much different in the near future. How you proceed on this journey will be different than everyone else in some ways and very similar in others.

One thing I can promise is that it will be different than you think it will be. From both my own experience and everyone I know both online and in real life the one constant is that this journey keeps changing as you find the road to your real self.

Best advice - be honest with yourself. Ask yourself - why do I want (fill in the blank). What is making me feel this way? A therapist is not to give you answers. A therapist is to help you find them for yourself.

Most of all be kind and honest both to yourself and with people in your life.

PS
I was about to close my computer and re-read your last post one more time. The need to pass or desire to pass is a real Pandora's box. Many of us on this site and in the trans community could go on long discussions or even rants on that topic. I am one major offender LOL.

I am not going to open that discussion here rather I would advise you to discuss the desire to pass with your therapist and where it is coming from. It will probably be an eye opening exploration, and a tough but rewarding one.

[faltenrock]

Carolina, I do have a few thoughts that you might consider.

I love going out as a woman, I love all the beautiful female clothes. I've been going out extensively for many years.
Like you, I also thought how great it would be to be a woman as a permanent state and gender.

However, I found out, that it is enough for me to go out for a day, even up to four or five days in a row, just being Doreen the whole time.
The truth I found for MYSELF is, I like to switch back to guy mode after these days. I don't want to be a womanthe whole time, as I'm happy as a man, father and husband too.

What I'm trying to say to you is, take your time, those decisions take a lot of time, sometimes years or decades to make sure there is no mistake being made.

I recommend to go out more in the future to find out for yourself, the answer will probably come by experience and your time out as Carolina.

[Maid_Marion]

It is very difficult to "pass." It is a lot like stroke recovery in which you need to retrain the brain to walk and talk again. Many people regain a lot of functionality, but it is very rare to find someone who appears completely normal after having a brain bleed that results in paralysis. That is just too much work, so people are usually satisfied with a lower level of functionality. Older people, particularly those with family to take care of them, may make very little effort to walk again.

[Teresa]

Carolina,
You have a good figure so your choice of clothes is easier , I've checked your age so when you start going out regularly you may need to consider your choice more carefully , being catcalled isn't something you want to happen on a regular basis , as you say you want integrate into society . Also you may have to give up on the notion you will pass , none of us do 100% there are always telltale signs .

As others have said don't try and rush things , deal with one aspect at a time . If transition is going to happen then going out on a regular basis has to be done comfortably and with confidence . So getting the basics right are important , if you wear a wig get some professional advice , if you wear makeup get a skin colour check done and find out how to do basic makeup for everyday . Keep an eye on what GGs are wearing in your age group so you can dress appropriately .

To ditch your life and embark on a different one may be difficult with a wife and kids at college , they depend on you so you'll have to consider them when making your decisions .

[Carolina]

Again, extremely interesting, wise and sound advice, thank you. My therapist seems to agree with you since she asked me to take it slowly. She believes I’m not transsexual (I was deflated by that statement), and that I should go step by step and be ready for rejection and loss. I guess you all are right and I should take one step at a time

Doreen, I found your process really interesting. I guess I’m where you were, thinking that the way forward is full transition. I didn’t realize one could be truly happy switching between the two worlds, without at least FFS to feel as a woman when in girl mode. My therapist seems to agree with that option.

You are right Teresa about the choice of clothes. I’m quite a classical lady as you can tell from the blouses I tend to wear. Most of my skirts and dresses have a hemline right below the knee. In some instances I feel the urge to wear something shorter, and that was what the makeup artist suggested I wear in my first outing. But my goal is to blend in with my age group ideally. One cannot beat time, so unfortunately I believe it would be futile to aim to be or look 20 years younger. I do need to learn how to apply regular day to day makeup, and am looking forward to it (besides internet tutorials) since I feel the need to present myself as a woman as often as I can (unfortunately not very often as of now).

And sure, I read with great interest the posts on the need to pass and the difficulty in achieving it. For whatever reason I do feel the need to pass (as per my make up comment above). There are many, many different opinions, and I value all of them. That’s the beauty of this forum, learning from others far more advanced on transitioning issues like you all. Thanks again for helping the newbies like me!!

Carolina

[Mirya]

Did your therapist explain why she believes you’re not a transsexual?

[Jeri Ann]

There is so much discussion here about clothes and appearance. Being transsexual is not about clothes or heels or passing. It is not about looking like a woman, it is about being a woman. Being transsexual is about gender identity, not how you feel when “dressed.” Your therapist is probably right.

[elizabethamy]

As one of the site's biggest cheerleaders for therapists (when do I get the pom-poms?) I would also say a word of caution: last week I made a list of all the therapists I had seen and whom I had told about my trans issues, and of the various kinds of advice they gave me. Much of it was bogus and harmful: your identity will probably change again, it's all fluid, people have been trans forever and most dont' have to do anything about it, and neither do you, are you sure you're not just a gay guy, can't you just crossdress on alternate Fridays and be done with it, don't you owe it to your wife to stifle it and just put up with it for the rest of your life, if you just worked harder and more focused you wouldn't be bothered by these stray thoughts, and more....

....until I finally found a therapist who said: this is big, it's obviously more important than you have said before, and that it's sufficiently specialized that rather than wing it without the knowledge, she would rather pass me off to someone who focuses primarily on gender therapy. That finally saved me and has enabled me to do what I always wanted...so, Carolina, be careful about therapists' advice, especially if it's not from a specialist.

Each week I ask followup questions about what left me puzzled from the week before. I think you have some of this with your therapist, and you are owed better explanations and answers. It might take that plus a lot of time! Good luck!

elizabethamy

[DaisyLawrence]

There is so much discussion here about clothes and appearance. Being transsexual is not about clothes or heels or passing. It is not about looking like a woman, it is about being a woman. Being transsexual is about gender identity, not how you feel when “dressed.” Your therapist is probably right.

:yt: That is the best advise you will get here. :)

[Sarah Doepner]

Yes, Jerri Ann has the key to the discussion.

I still don't know if I'm Transsexual but with help from my therapist I've come to accept I'm certainly not a CIS-Male and need to address those gender identity issues. My therapy sessions were plenty long enough because the real work took place between them as I attempted to understand what was discussed and what it meant in my life.

I've long thought I wanted to be female, going back to childhood, but was it a gender identity issue or something else I couldn't accept about who I was. It's taken quite a while and I've had to look at a lot of other things in my life that may have been triggering a desire to "escape" my humdrum daily life in favor of something exciting or with no long term expectations or demands. I've had to better understand my sexuality and relationships to others in both the CIS and non-CIS parts of my world. I've had to reconfigure my place within my family and understand the proper limits to my control and responsibilities, particularly regarding how my gender identity might or might not impact others (FYI; not in my control although I might be able to influence it and in the end, not my responsibility for their perception). Each piece of that puzzle has been examined and at least partially understood before I was ready to move along toward Hormone Therapy.

It's not about what other people see, but about being happy with who I know will be in the mirror the next time I bother to take a look.

[Lana Mae]

The clothes go into the background and become so less important! Well, yeah, you have to wear something! LOL No, they become my clothes and rather than a special feeling it becomes similar to picking out the right tie for a guy when you pick either the black heels or the red ones! Clothes are just clothes! It is about feeling like a woman! Jeri Ann is a great source of advice and wisdom, you would do well to listen to what she says! IMHO Hugs Lana Mae

[Patty B.]

Take your time is great advice. I’ve just passed the 1 year anniversary when I started hormones. I’m still aware that I’m TS no matter how I dress, and the options of breast augmentation and orchi are now available. My thoughts on those steps haven’t chsnged, the timeline has over the past year has. Baby steps if necessary.

[Teresa]

Jeri Ann,
It's natural there is talk about clothes and appearance , they do matter when you go out full time , we have to feel comfortable and confident no matter what our label is. In that case why does the NHS insist on 1-2 years of dressing full time before they will procede any further ? It is to totally come to terms with your appearance and allow the people around you to adjust to you as well . Whether you call it degrees of passing or integrating into the community it does have to be worked at just as any woman would in her daily life , looking like a woman and being as close to one has to happen if we can live a happy life long term . We all have to work through these stages .

Also if the clothes don't matter why do you have a dress code for your GNOs .

[pamela7]

Teresa, actually, the clothes matter considerably less after HRT - considerably. I mean, I don't ever see why I'd choose to wear menswear ever again, but the need for forms, for prettiness, disappeared. Instead, I accept most woman are not conventionally seen as beauties, and me too - not a problem. However, there are still standards when going out as opposed to lounging at home.

[Jeri Ann]

Jeri Ann, Also if the clothes don't matter why do you have a dress code for your GNOs .

Teresa,

You really need to read more carefully. I never said that clothes don’t matter. In Texas it is against the law to leave the house without ‘em. What I did say was that being transsexual was not about clothes. Certainly they are important. So is bathing and brushing your teeth. But, being transsexual is about gender identity. As Lana Mae so aptly put it, “the clothes do go into the background and become less important.

Now, don’t think for one minute that this girl doesn’t think that appearance is important. It is a necessary component of a full life. I am in Vegas now for a seven day stay. I pack my “clothes” carefully to have what I needed to look my best for each planned activity from playing slots
297090to seeing Wayne Newton297091
This picture is when he came toward me. I got a hug and a kiss from him. It was a most memorable night and I looked HOT!!!

Btw, where did you get the notion that the Houston GNO has a dress code??? We don’t care what you wear as long as you present as a girl, hence the name Girls Night Out. At our GNO two weeks ago I went in costume because I had an early Halloween party to go to. Check it out. If I’m lying, I’m dying.
297092
This was at the party.
297093
All subjects gave consent to post.

[Teresa]

Jeri Ann,
The comment about dress code was made in the thread started by Asew .

You didn't say so directly but your wording gave that impression about clothing , I didn't need to be specific we all know what style of clothes we are talking about . The clothes I choose to wear are showing society how I feel inside , they enable me to be more comfortable with my GD issues . I find the labels drift into the background because the really don't affect me or the people I meet , what I wear and how I present myself does have an affect because they give me an idicator on how well I am integrating into society , this is the important aspect of my life now . What I would wear to something like the Vegas week would be enirely different , I don't need to prove anything to other members of our community because they don't affect my everyday life .

Pamela ,
I've met several TSs now and some still love the dress up side of it, we are all different one size doesn't fit all !

[pamela7]

I'll try to avoid being misunderstood, Teresa. I'm not saying that I don't still enjoy dressing up - I do. But, i don't have it as a constant compulsion now. That is gone, thanks to hrt.

[Anne K]

My therapist pointed out,”When you transition, everybody transitions.” So true. I think confusion and self doubt are just part of the ride. I just came out to my brother. I was really nervous. Instead of what I expected, he was very happy for me and asked what he could do to help me.

My wife is a therapist and quotes Mark Twain, ““I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened.”

Have Strength and, most of all, Peace.

[Aunt Kelly]

Also if the clothes don't matter why do you have a dress code for your GNOs .
No one who knows what they are talking about can say that there is a dress code for the Houston Girls Night Out events. That's not to say that they won't talk about you the moment you go to the ladies' (LOL), but the only "rule" is that, to attend, you must present as a girl, or really be one.

To a TS, clothes may matter a great deal, or they may matter very little. Either way, they do not matter the same way they do to most crossdressers. The NHS requirements are not about "coming to terms with your appearance". They are about coming to terms with living as a woman. BTW, those requirements are for qualification for bottom surgery, specifically. No matter how much time a crossdresser spends en femme, if she's returning to boy mode whenever it's more convenient she doesn't pass the test.

[DaisyLawrence]

That is it exactly Kelly. Our NHS knows only too well that it is politically sensitive to spend taxpayers money on SRS if that patient then goes on to say "you know what, this whole living as a woman thing full-time isn't for me afterall" a year or two later. Better to have them prove they can live as a woman full-time before you make them into a full-time woman. It's not a requirement to dress appropriately for a year or two but a requirement NOT to present as male for any reason. It really does mean those potential stumbling blocks to medical transition are dealt with and out of the way before they proceed and spend the money. An example is work, the patient can not continue to present as male at work while in the waiting period. I have no problem with the NHS approach here. Speaking as a taxpayer that funds it and having a wife working in emergency medecine only to aware of funding issues effectively rationing healthcare where it may be needed, I can see the sense in this approach.

[KymberlyOct]

This thread has kind of gotten all over the place but I am glad it's still open. For Carolina and any other 'newbies' ( lousy term really) but those new to exploring their gender -
I am a big advocate for therapists. With one HUGE caveat. You need to find the right fit for YOU.

Finding the right therapist is like finding the right Significant Other. It's not about who is good for everyone else - it's about who is good for YOU.

I think a lot of therapists suck to tell you the truth. I am lucky I found a rock star. Not the first one I saw though. Carolina, about your therapist telling you that you are not TS.
I don't know you - maybe you're not. But based on your description of your interaction with your therapist I think it is a premature and possibly biased opinion. I don't know, I'm not you and I'm not there but alarms are going off in my head from what I am reading.

I say this reluctantly but my gut tells me I'm right - you may want to talk to another therapist. Just trying to help.
Be well

[Rianna Humble]

why does the NHS insist on 1-2 years of dressing full time before they will proceed any further ?

The plain fact is that they don't insist on dressing. They have a requirement about living full time in your true gender - that is very very different. The clinical gender specialists know about people putting on women's clothes and other devices to go out then reverting to a male role, what they are looking for is reassurance that you are living as your true self (even in jeans & tee shirt on occasion) and not flip-flopping.

[Carolina]

Again, thank you for the different points of view

On my side, I talk about clothes because that is when I get to show Carolina. When I'm in male clothes I also long to be Carolina. I don't play dress up for the fun of it (which indeed could be fun). Whenever I have the chance I show the Carolina in me (which is more and more often since we are now empty nesters). I show her by dressing up, but on a daily basis I'm Carolina too although dressed in drab. Nowadays on a daily basis I wear stockings, longish nails (my wife keeps telling me they are way too long for a man... which reinforces my desire to wear them long) and painted toenails. Carolina is shouting to get out, but she is there on a daily basis. When I manage to dress properly as Carolina and then switch to male mode is not because I got tired of Carolina, but because "I have to" go back to male life. I really think I would love to be Carolina 100% of the time, no switching back to male mode. This doesn't mean being dressed up to the nines every time, it would mean being Carolina all the time irrespective of how I dress. I understand the NHS completely. It is similar in Spain. You have to live a couple of years as a woman, no turning back to male mode at all. I understand it and couldn't be more in favor of that. Why would anyone want to go back to male mode at any time?

Jeri Ann mentioned that "being transsexual is about gender identity, not how you feel when “dressed."” Sure, I agree with that. When I am not dressed I still feel I want to continue to be Carolina. I feel Carolina 24/7, not just when dressed. However, when dressed, I feel happy and at peace because I present myself how I feel. My therapy is about gender identity, trying to get help to figure myself out, not about dressing up or clothes. The best advice is to take it slowly, and that's what I hope to do.

Mirya, my therapist believes I may not be TS because I didn't reject my genitals. I believe this may be too simplistic. I'm a practical person and try to make the most of the cards I've been dealt in life. I was given a male body. At the beginning I didn't question it and tried to make the most out of it. As an adult and over the last 30 years I started questioning it, and I proactively avoided making it more masculine (stopped swimming, no weights, nothing that could bulge up the upper body). Lately, however, I'm more and more inclined to make more subtle changes. Waxed my legs, do my nails, facials, put all sorts of creams all over the body, wear perfume, etc, etc Obviously that doesn't make me a woman at all, but allows the Carolina inside of me to express herself a little bit even dressed as a male.

Joyce, I agree with the point that everybody around you transitions when you do it. That's one of the many worries I have, affecting loved ones in ways they don't deserve. But I do like Mark Twain's quote that “I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened.” True, but I still worry...:sad:

Kymberly, I also believe my therapist's main field is not gender issues (I got a big "hint" when I first sat on a tiny chair in a therapy room more geared to kids' issues...) My goal is to try to get to this one hospital in Madrid where all GD cases are centralized and dealt with (psychologists, psychiatrists, endocrine doctors, surgeons, all dedicated to GD issues). They are the ones to trust since they see cases on a daily basis, but it is difficult to get to them (have to go through my family GP who I don't even know, but would know my family...) I believe I have no other option but to risk it and go through him/her...

Apologies for my ranting and very long reply. I've been out of the country but constantly thinking about the different comments and points of view. Thank you for your patience and words of wisdom. I love this forum with many different opinions and valuable real life experiences. I always look forward to all your comments and suggestions.

I still have to figure out myself and my next steps (that need to be small ones as I see it now) while I keep therapy

Thanks!

Carolina

[Eemz]

> have to go through my family GP who I don't even know, but would know my family...
> I believe I have no other option but to risk it and go through him/her...

I think talking to a therapist you trust will help a lot. I don't know Spain, but in most EU countries your doctor is not allowed to discuss your medical conditions with anyone without your permission, unless you're under age, or you've told them you're going to commit a crime or something like that.

[elizabethamy]

Carolina,

How you feel when you are dressed as yourself and how you feel when you have to go back to male mode - that's not about crossdressing, it's evidence that is telling you something about who you really should be. Not full proof, but feedback/evidence.

The advice that you can't be truly transsexual because you don't hate your genitals is loopy and false. No one can say how you will feel about this as you go on in your exploration, but it's not a meaningful comment. My view of genitals has changed significantly over time. Yours might, too. Find a specialist if you can.

e.a.

[Rianna Humble]

It has been over two weeks and the OP has not replied. Thread closed.