Fear of losing my career keeps me from transitioning

[Jesskm]

I'm so scared of losing everything. I have a decent career in IT, and don't want to risk losing it because of a transition.

I struggle like heck, even currently as a cis-male when it comes to interviewing for new positions. Prior to my current role, I was unemployed for a year because I couldn't find a job. Then earlier this year, things got rocky at my job and I though I was going to get laid off again. 9 months, 10 phone interviews, and 2 face-to-face interviews later, I'm still at my current job. It was a humbling experience to know that even in this "hot" job market, a cis white male still struggles with employment. I can't even imagine having to do this while trans.

I have no Plan B, no side hustle, no family support, nothing. It's a huge roll of the dice, and so far, it's that uncertainty that keeps me from doing it.:sad:

[crystaltvco]

As we don't know what industry you are in, not sure who here could offer any job improvement/advancement tips.

The only things I can offer are possibly looking at jumping careers? I know that Data Science and cyber security are always going to need good people. The former may need some schooling, be it at a traditional school or online. For what I am about to say, I am not affiliated with this institution and have no skin in their game: Check out WGU. They have online courses only. The are also accredited. I have friends that work for hospitals and their bosses paid for their MBA's. And hospitals don't pay for doodly unless you are 100% legit.

Good luck, hang in there, keep looking stunning and let us know if we can help?

Hugggles!!!

[pamela7]

Hi Jess, I've felt close to losing a job once, and also found it tough to move jobs in the past, so I do empathise. all i can really suggest is that by becoming as key as possible to a business operation, the bosses decide not to discriminate. Are there any ways you can sound out their real opinions? In the end a business is there to be efficient and effective, and with the right people up high knowing this, well you can then have leeway perhaps.

xxx Pam

[Kelly DeWinter]

Although I am in a field that for me to transition it would guarantee that I would loose my career. Have a Plan B or a side job is always a great idea. I worked in the IT field for 15 years and consulted on the side until I started my own consulting Business. My current career requires me to form short term relationships and transitioning would would not go over well with 95% of my clients.

The other reason is a medical reason for not transitioning (too much to go into)

Keep a positive attitude and start preparing yourself for a possible different career.

[Mirya]

There will always be an excuse for not transitioning. Fear of losing your job. Fear of losing family. Fear of losing friends. Fear of being too tall. Fear of having big hands/feet. Fear of having to wear a wig. Fear of not having a passable female voice. Fear of not being able to find new friends. Fear of not being passable. Fear of surgery. Fear of having to be on HRT forever. Take your pick... There are plenty more.

And yet, despite the unknowns and the fears, TS women still transition. Gender identity is not something one chooses based on weighing the pros and cons and whether it's worth it or not. It is innate. It just is. And if you're TS, you will eventually reach a point in your life where you can no longer abide by the false life you have built as a man. And then you will be ready. You will become the most fearless person in the world. Nothing will stop you and nothing will hold you back.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Mirya;

That's a fairly simplistic reaction to transitioning, usually made by someone who has transitioned. You cannot discount someones reasoned approach to transitioning as "fear" based. People make choices based on criteria that is important to them. Too many people have reached this point you have described. Transitioned and regretted their decision. What is wrong with someone taking a measured approach to making a sound decision that will affect them for the rest of their lives.

[Aunt Kelly]

I know exactly how you feel, Jess. In my case, I have a spouse to think of as well (an example of Kelly D's "important criteria"). We are both of the age where things like security, and good medical coverage, matter more. I have a good job with a good company, but not so good that I could count on keeping it if I transition now. Oh, I'll be doing what I can in the mean time. Electrolysis is under way and HRT will start as soon as the medical clearance can be obtained. Social transition will have to take a back seat for career right now.
If I were where I am now, but younger and could make a jump more easily, I would, in a New York minute. Like you, I'm in a field that is crying for talent and truth be told, I could probably land somewhere, even now, that would not care what gender I am. There would still be risk, of course, and for the sake of my incredibly understanding wife, I shall pursue the slower, safer path.

[KymberlyOct]

Jess - I am going to tell you my story. This is your thread but a little nugget here and one there might help you decide what to do.

It's only my opinion... but... I am a strong believer in being the authentic you no matter what that it is gender - your passion in life - politics - spirituality etc.

Careers can fall apart anyway but all you really truly have in the end is you.

I was a national account manager for a Fortune 500 company household name you all know for 20 years. The whole story would go for pages but in the end due to a change in ownership I was laid off. I had great appraisals and my results exceeded my goals but in short I was at the wrong place at the wrong time when new ownership took over the company. Then I got cancer. Yup true story.

But that's not the point. ANYTHING can happen. You never know what life will bring good and bad. But by releasing your fears and doing what's real you open yourself up to so many possibilities. Some may suck and others may be things so great and different you would have never imagined them. My life has been an amazing roller coaster of good and bad. I feel like I have lived 10 different peoples lives. Some very privileged and some with extreme challenges.

But one thing I am certain of - people always regret the things they didn't have the courage to do.

I have made many mistakes and had great success but the mistakes I regret the most are the ones that I didn't act on sooner or made choices based on fear.

And you may be surprised. Sometimes people that are impressed by your courage to transition will give you a leg up regarding your career. Being transgender is not always a negative. Some people may give you preference for that very reason.

I certainly don't know everything for everyone but one of the few things that I would be stubborn about in a disagreement is someone telling me that they didn't transition due to their career. IMHO - Big Mistake.

Best Wishes
Be Brave
Kim

[Rianna Humble]

Jess, I believe that both Kim and Kelly are giving you the best advice they can and have your interests at heart when giving the advice, but I have to disagree with both of them.

There is a very good reason why the majority of people who have lived through transition give the same or similar advice which amounts to
Don't transition unless you have to, but if you reach the point where you have to, don't let anything get in your way

If anything is more important to you than becoming congruent with who you really are, don't start. You have to be prepared to lose everything and everyone, otherwise the difficulties of transition will destroy you. I am not saying that you will lose everything and everyone, but there will be difficulties and people you thought you could rely upon will turn against you.

Kelly quotes the myth of the too-many-to-name transition regretters. There have been a small number of people who have transitioned for the wrong reason or with unrealistic expectations and who have regretted the fact.

Most people quote Charles Kane (who never was transsexual) or Christine Daniels (a transsexual sports writer who could not cope with the loss of her friends). Christine's death was a tragedy in the truest sense of the word, but we cannot let ourselves be dominated by fear, rather we need to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I will probably sound harsh, but I don't think that transition would be right for you whilst you value your job more than becoming whole. That is not to say that transition will never be right for you, nor that it ever will - only you can finally decide that.

Either way, please know that those of us who have the experience will be hear to try to support you however we can.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Rianna;


Just an FYI, One thing I categorically do not do is promote myths.

Here is a direct quote "Miroslav Djordjevic, who specializes in gender reassignment surgery, has seen an increase in “reversal” surgeries among transgender women who want their male genitalia back."


The real myth is those within the TG community who deny or downplay those who de-transition. The sad reality, is that those same people are treated like pariah by the same community that heaped encouragement on them to transition. That is the true double standard.


So while you will get a lot of support to transition, if you are not successful emotionally, financially, physically then the one thing you can count on is being truly on your own.


I encourage and affirm those who make the decision to transition.

[pamela7]

According to my doctor, about 5 people per year want to reverse transition in the UK, and he has one of these clients right now (not me, I hasten to add!).

I've also seen quoted there are 650,000 trans people in the UK - so assuming a nominal 50 year span, that's 250 wanting to reverse in total. Also assuming only 10% of trans people do trans (65,000), less than 1% actually realise it's a mistake.

Having worked in the deepest psychological arts for the last 18 years I can for sure say that there is (almost) no deep work being facilitated to be sure of uncovering enough to eliminate mistakes. But we can say the error rate is biased towards false negatives.

[Sarah Doepner]

I didn't even consider coming out while I was still working. While that was several years ago, as my retirement grew close I guarded my gender identity even more closely. The last thing I wanted was to spend 25 or 30 years in a career and not have the security that career had promised. Now I'm retired and comfortable financially, not threatened by that particular potential disaster, and my long delayed exploration of my gender is moving along at a nice pace. There is nothing wrong with setting priorities that insure survival, even it's uncomfortable survival as you build stability in your life.

Sometimes there are intermediate steps you can take that help reduce the influence of GD on your life. Counseling, a social support group or even low level hormones can allow you to move on in 'normal' life while keeping the specter of transition both in sight but not all consuming. If you find something that works you can use the time to assess the kind of support you might find through your workplace or develop the unique skills that will give your career more stability. It's amazing what we can accomplish when we aren't under the spell of dysphoria.

I was fortunate that my condition and attitude allowed me to make the choice to keep things on hold, but I know those who couldn't wait as it was a life/death matter for them. Each of us has a different set of needs and resources, limitations and possibilities. There is nothing wrong in seeking outside opinion and experience as you attempt to make sense of your world, sometimes you find a nugget of great value, other times it's a spray-painted dog dropping. So gather love and support around you, be patient as you assess your long term needs (see the needs vs. wants threads) and make the best choices for your life.

[Rianna Humble]

Rianna;


Just an FYI, One thing I categorically do not do is promote myths.

No-one accused you of promoting the myth that you quoted.

I have looked at the source of your quotation, it comes from an article citing Charles Kane as the main "evidence" for the supposed legions of people who de-transition after having been pressured into transition against their better judgement. Charles Kane was never transsexual and bought his way past the checks and balances because he thought that having a designer vagina would make him more attractive to women.

The surgeon quoted cites seven people who detransitioned in a period of five years - hardly an avalanche. In all of the reports in anti-trans journals, why is it that they quote over 3000 GCS operations per year in the US alone then oppose that with an average of 1.4 reversals per year in another country to claim the supposed mass wave of regret?

I do not deny that there has been a small number who have regretted their decision - whether it be because they were not prepared fro the rejection and loneliness, or because they were poorly supported in that transition, but compared to the tens of thousands worldwide who have transitioned successfully, it is not a mass wave.

[Kelly DeWinter]

My original statement was "too many people"


"Kelly quotes the myth"


"No-one accused you of promoting the myth that you quoted." LOL it's not a myth that people transition. Seriously , just google transgender surgery reversal and other similar phrases, and you'll see it's not a myth.


The article written LIZETTE BORRELI cites DR Miroslav Djordjevic as the main evidence and Charles Kane as an example. You have to read in context


My point and this article and others bear it out is that an increasing number of people reverse or de-transition. In my home city of Baltimore in the Baltimore Transgender Alliance. There have been 4 people have started to de-transition this year.


No one said "mass wave"


This is a prime example of what happens people take a phrase like "too many" and it become "avalanche" and "mass wave"


If within this reclusive private hidden community you have a 2% documented number of people who de-transition then you can expect the actual numbers to be higher. (Its and opinion, not a fact)

[OCCarly]

Hi Jess:

I am a self employed, licensed attorney and very well known in the Los Angeles County court system. Meaning, once I went public with my transition, there was no going back.

The good news is, after a lot of careful coming out to all my clients, I only lost one client. To be fair that client was evangelical Christian, so I didn’t expect much. Although really cool at first, they ghosted me after about four months.

Other than that, I still have the rest of my portfolio. My client relations are much improved. I relate to people far better on hormones and being myself. I’m a better listener, more sympathetic, more empathetic.

Overall I’m doing better than ever. Before I could not effectively market myself. Now I can. I struggled as a male because I wasn’t male. Being a guy felt like doing a job of being a guy, a job I never felt qualified for and was constantly under review. Then having to be a lawyer on top of that? It’s a miracle I survived for so long. Now, being a lawyer is easier and more fulfilling, because I’m me.

I’ve found that most of the people in the world are good people. You may find it easier to do your job when you are free to be yourself because people will react more positively.

Transition for the girl in the mirror, not for anyone else. If you believe in yourself, others will believe in you.

[KellyJameson]

In my opinion those who get sexually aroused by being a sexual object should be very cautious about the psychological drivers that are providing the impetus to transition.

In one post you said this... "Panties.

I love the word. "

Sex as sexuality is an extremely powerful influence on identity and it is easy to confuse sexual identity with gender identity. A woman is far more than simply her sexuality, which is to say that a female gender identity is not only about sex and actually sex and sexual identity are things woman usually try to escape in becoming a woman "as gender identity" ( A woman is more than her body as sexually desired object by others)

Cross dressing may be the most dangerous act a person can do to their gender identity if they are sexually attracted to women, born with a penis that they are very comfortable using as their sexuality and do not identify with masculinity as identity (which is often toxic masculinity so not identifying with it makes sense). The second most dangerous act is having sex with men but wanting to be in the female role as a "submissive"

Both these desires can in todays "transgender mania climate" cause confusion about "gender identity"

If sex in any fashion mixed with sexual fantasy is an influence on your "gender dysphoria" I urge extreme caution.

If you have conflated being female with being "submissive" than I once again urge extreme caution in "identifying" these emotional and sexual needs as "gender dysphoria"

Masculine identity and men in general are under relentless psychological attack by their environment. Men universally have and always have had fragile "gender identities" making them very susceptible to "gender dysphoria" caused by the very experience of being born male.

The whole of mankind as men has dealt with this problem on many levels. Men are constantly latching onto various things to find their identity and perpetually live in a identity crisis. War and the military as an example. (Being a man's man). Violence in general to prove courage.

An identity crisis is not necessarily "gender dysphoria"

Actual gender dysphoria creates an identity crisis because of the female identity (for MTF) that cannot be escaped. The person was not led into it by sex or being submissive by nature.

It is a "knowing" similar to knowing an immutable truth. It has nothing to do with clothes. Nothing to do with sex. Nothing to do with personality or temperament.

In my opinion no one should transition who has not had life long struggles with gender identity conflicts and even those people should do extensive therapy to uncover the reasons and influences for those struggles because gender identity is fragile and subject to the affects of trauma.

There is a pattern of people transitioning (MtF) where they are musicians/artists/scientists.

In my opinion they are escaping masculinity as identity into the more comfortable fit of a female identity but actual gender dysphoria is not escaping one thing to go into another because there is nothing to escape but only something to accept that has always been there.

And when it has always been there than the question is why. How that is answered should in my opinion decide whether someone transitions or not.

The danger to people now is the social acceptance of people who identify as transgender. The danger of non acceptance is being replaced with the danger of acceptance.

[KymberlyOct]

Jess, I believe that both Kim and Kelly are giving you the best advice they can and have your interests at heart when giving the advice, but I have to disagree with both of them.

Thank you Rianna - As always I do give the best advice I can with the interest of the person at heart. My intentions are good so I appreciate the acknowledgment of that.

This has become an interesting thread with a very wide variety of advice.

My concern for you Jess is that you probably will come away more confused than when you asked for input. Similar to a therapist nobody here can tell you what to do but hopefully you can read some opinions and see which ones sound right for you.

My advice might be right for one person - Rianna's for somebody else and Kelly's for someone else and so on.

We are all just giving opinions based on our experiences, observations and beliefs.

You need to do the work of searching yourself to figure out what's right for you. Hopefully we give you good food for thought.

I hope you find happiness.

[grace7777]

If you continue on your present path and you turn out in the next 20 years to be very successful, will you find fulfillment, or will you regret the path you did not peruse. Decide what is truly important to you and live your based on that.

Having a good career, driving a nice car, having plenty of money, living in a luxury home can be nice things to have, but will it make you happy. Others have achieved this and yet commit suicide. Yet others live in poverty and find fulfillment.

Decide what is truly important to you in your life.

Grace

[KymberlyOct]

Well said Grace, I have been broke then had money for 20 years and am broke again. Long story anyways... Being broke sucks and is stressful but being at peace with yourself is the most important thing in life in my opinion. It doesn't fix everything but in the end finding peace for yourself is the most valuable thing.

Oh and by the way can anybody lend me 20 bucks :D I'm kidding.

[LeaP]

It is a "knowing" similar to knowing an immutable truth. It has nothing to do with clothes. Nothing to do with sex. Nothing to do with personality or temperament.
...
In my opinion no one should transition who has not had life long struggles with gender identity conflicts and even those people should do extensive therapy to uncover the reasons and influences for those struggles because gender identity is fragile and subject to the affects of trauma.
...
The danger to people now is the social acceptance of people who identify as transgender. The danger of non acceptance is being replaced with the danger of acceptance.

This.

Well said, Kelly.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Can I ask in your mind, why do you want to transition?

[LeaP]

Getting back to the OP’s financial concerns, they are real. I lost a job after coming out to the company. There are others in this thread who have as well. I’m not sure whether this describes you or not, but trading one kind of survival for another is a dismal prospect. Some transition. Some die. Some live in poverty, whether relative or actual. Some succeed and thrive.

The best advice is something you likely already know. That is, the best chances are to get a job in a company and in an area of the country where other employees have transitioned successfully. Easy in concept, not so easy in practice. Three good resources include the HRC’s Corporate Equality Index (CEQ), LinkedIn (there’s a trans group), and of course, your own networking.

Take everything with a grain of salt, though. I was the one who raised the CEQ to my company, who wound up pursuing the rating ... but still lost my job, and I KNOW that some of the answers were false. On the other hand, you can find actual, detailed transition policies for some of the listed 100% companies if you are diligent enough.

Beware those who advertise their compliance with all official protected categories, as it’s a red flag that those are ALL they cover. Beware the inclusion of gender but not gender identity. Don’t confuse even real support for Pride or “LGBT” concerns for support of trans people. Many support gay and lesbian people but not trans people.

Check out the execs in the management chain in which you are interested. You can often find personal interests and activity, donations - especially political, as they are disclosed in the US, religious beliefs, and more. All this from openly available sources. I recall one hiring manager where I had found information on their childhood and family, college, financial history, address history and real estate transactions (right down to pictures), complete employment history and threads of connections between their current company and other company execs, ties to private capital firms (one of which was my intro to the company), associations, volunteer activities, and a whole lot more ... Alas, not a thing related to LGBT anything, anywhere, good, bad, or indifferent, including within the connections or company. Contrast that with another company of interest, where I checked the senior staff and found a genuine trans advocate, ally, author, and activist! Still didn’t get the job, though. (Sigh)

It’s a tough world.

[AllieSF]

In my opinion no one should transition who has not had life long struggles with gender identity conflicts and even those people should do extensive therapy to uncover the reasons and influences for those struggles because gender identity is fragile and subject to the affects of trauma.

Kelly,

I understand your post, but this sentence bothers me. Are you saying that to transition one has to suffer like you and others have? What about the people who know who they are and do something about it once they realize how serious it is to be themselves, and have no serious life long issues or sufferings related to their gender identity? They do exist and I know some. They started before the issues with family started and proceeded to live their lives as they saw fit. According to you, should they have waited longer for more suffering and issues? I understand that there are issues for many, maybe most, dealing with who they are, but what about those that know, including this new wave coming from parents who help their children be who they are?

I just went to a family and friends support presentation by some successful fully transitioned people and 3 parents of very young children, one family who had two transgender children (MtF and FtM)and one cis-gender son. I also just had a long afternoon meeting with a mother who had attended that presentation and her husband, talking about being transgender and how I and others I know deal with everything. Their new son did not have a life long struggle. That is not to say that he did not have some hard thinking and issues with coming out to his parents. He has very supportive parents who are trying to find out how to be successful with that support, i.e. provide the right kind of support.

Though not necessarily intended in your statement, it does read to some that you shouldn't transition if you don't suffer "like we have", which in my opinion is wrong and should be reworded to better explain what you mean. I get and agree that for those on the fence, which is not "all", being sure of one's self identity is most important and to then act on that decision, i.e. transition, takes a lot of courage, perseverance and tough skin to make it through the tough phases to happiness and loving one's self.

PS: Could you please explain what you mean by "... the danger of acceptance."?

[jentay1367]

"the danger of acceptance."

I completely understand what she means by this. Those seeking validation would be more emboldened once it's found. If you're stoking the fires of something phantasmagorical, the last thing you'd need is others chipping in with their "support". At least before we were an accepted piece of the societal fabric, the vilification we received gave us cause for pause. If you went through the fire to arrive on the other side as most did from previous generations, you most probably did it on your own and in spite of others wishes or opinions. Transitioning is a one way street, particularly if you follow through with the suite of procedures many choose to do. So, if you follow through that dead end end can be end up being heaven or hell based on your true nature once you've made that trip. If you felt this is right for you because others are cheer leading and helping you along, you may possibly find yourself in a very, very bad place.

[kimdl93]

Its seems to me that your OP really answers the question for you. No plan B, no family support, and nothing else. So, don't risk it.

It seems that given the risks, you need to fly under the radar for your own well-being and that of those dependent upon you. My other advice....invest whatever time and money you can spare into self care....counseling, working out....a vacation to a friendly environ.

[AllieSF]

Jerntay,

Whether I am annoying insensitive or slow to understand (SIRI's definition) or not what it means, I have not heard that expression before and therefore simply asked for a clarification. I should not have to read your sarcasm "Have to be pretty obtuse" to get an understandable and clear explanation. That was uncalled for. We all have our own experiences some similar and some not to others' experiences. Therefore, we may or may not understand someones use of particular words or phrases when they make a comment on something. All your other comments I pretty much understand and have friends who have experienced some or all of that.

[jentay1367]

That was a poor choice of words, Allie. I apologize and it wasn't my intent to offend. I fixed it ( :

[AllieSF]

Thanks for your response and actions. I really do understand that many, many people have a tough journey and some do not make it. If you ever make it out here, San Francisco, look me up and the first glass is on me.

Jeekm,

Sorry for the diversion from the core topic. In a way it is still all related because this journey for many does involve work = income, then family and friends, then the general public and many other facets of transitioning. So, many times these side topics help one see that transitioning is not easy because of so many areas for concern and possible future difficulties, especially when on the cusp of a such a major life changing decision. And, that for many it was all well worth it and led to a happier and more fulfilling life. Most who have transitioned here had their tough times and many of those are now doing more than just fine! I hope it helps to see more of it at this time, including the positive side.

[elizabethamy]

I don't always agree with everything Kelly says, but OMG, THIS is the BEST description of what being trans feels like that I have ever seen.

She said: "It is a "knowing" similar to knowing an immutable truth. It has nothing to do with clothes. Nothing to do with sex. Nothing to do with personality or temperament." So perfectly said, Kelly!

After you strip away all the externalities, the friends and family and jobs and logistics and all of that, and after you've played all the mind games on yourself that you can, at the end of the day are you just saying, "I don't know why I have to transition, but I just feel it so deeply and I don't know where it comes from, and it sounds impossible, but this is what I need to do."

If that's you, start working on transition. If you're not there, or not there yet, keep exploring, keep thinking, keep talking. In the end, it won't be about what job you do or don't have or what your family or friends think. It will be about who you are inside, and only you know.

[KymberlyOct]

I was actually going to start a thread titled 'before it's too late' but instead I will just add to this thread. This is a very worthwhile topic and we have a wide variety of opinions.
None of our opinions is right or wrong for everyone else. The reason I am still on this site is hopefully to pay it forward because some of the people that used to be here really helped me. My opinions won't be right for everyone but maybe for some.

That long disclaimer out of the way :-D

I wish I had done this 30 years ago. Did I wait too long? Well yes in some ways. SRS is probably a no for me so I only got an orchie instead. Extensive FFS is a no and maybe none at all.
Why - I have serious heart issues that I didn't have 15 years ago, I'm high risk for surgery. And there is the money issue as well. I used to have money - now I don't.

On the glass half full side at least I transitioned while I was still young enough - active enough - and have some years left (hopefully) to enjoy it. I remember someone that used to be on this site that was in their 70s but is not here anymore. They had decided it was too late for them. I guess at some point it eventually is but when that is I don't know.

But most importantly ALL THOSE WASTED YEARS !! UGH. I could have enjoyed so much more of my life if I had the courage to do this years ago. And I would have had vaginoplasty instead of just an orchie. And I would have had FFS instead of just Botox injections. Luckily I still have a lot of hair at 58 years old but not many do at my age.

Worrying about career, money social life. What's the point if you are not living the life you want to?

I often read comments - "don't transition unless you have to" OK where's the line on 'have to' ? Being suicidal? Or just doing self harm? Or just depressed? Or just melancholy? What is 'have to'? I felt this way since I was 5 years old. Could I have made it to my death without transitioning? Yeah I guess. My dysphoria was not that extreme that I would have committed suicide but why should I live unhappily? Did transitioning fix all of my life problems? Not even close. But it made me happier than I was. Isn't that the point?

If your career or money is more important than living as the gender that you truly believe you are then that's OK. I really mean that. Not everybody should transition. There are many more people on this site in the CD forum not to mention the NB forum. If they are there because they actually feel that way then great. If they are there because of FEAR then that is very sad.

WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE DON'T MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON FEAR. In my not so humble opinion ( just this one time lol ) Making decisions due to fear is something you will always regret. Again - not everyone should transition - just make sure you are doing the right soul searching when coming to that decision.

My time on the soapbox is up.

PS I slipped back on the soapbox for one last thought. After posting this I went on the CD forum just to sneak a peek out of curiosity. OMG I felt like I was on a different planet. That is no criticism of anyone there whatsoever - I just read a couple of posts and thought - I can't even relate to this.

Find Out Who You Are - whoever that may be.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Dont transiiton until you have to can seem to be pretty unhelpful!!!

But i think most of the time "you just know"....
you just know you have to.... what happens after that is all over the board and forums and therapy groups are filled with literally every type of coping from transition to denial when you "just know"


=======================================

In this particular case, its pretty clear to me that the OP is not in that space...
if I "had to" , i'd be all over this thread....... that's what its like... you cant think of ANYTHING else...your brain is filled with nonstop gender dysphoria that never lets you have a moments peace...
or you dont question it all..you know without any prevarication or doubt at all...
When you "have to" is not a casual thing...it is a meaning of life type of thing..


+++++++++++++++++++++

So to me the best specific advice is to be aware that this is on your mind... don't get caught up in the girly stuff...the adventures (i know i did)....the times a guy flirted or the moment you passed...(i know i did)...
Its excellent that you are aware of your financial situation and the impact on others.... if that's your concern, time will inform you of the best decision for you.
trust me, if you are really ts, this will keep coming at you and you'll start to think differently..honestly i hope it doesnt but in reality none of us can control it..

if you start to suffer GD, make sure you have a great therapist and can openly talk about it and let out the steam...

and experiment and express your gender and your TG feelings as best you can so you can analyze and understand yourself as best you can...

you are young and have lots of time...i dont buy i wish it was earlier...its like i wish i won the lottery... its today and your future that matter..

[KellyJameson]

Hi Allie

There is a transgender community that those who transitioned may participate in but there is no transsexual community. To be transsexual is to experience something that is actually very rare. It is to be born with a birth defect.

A transsexual is a " Cis person" . They experience the world as binary but are forced to live in it as a non binary person until they transition. They automatically acquire their natural gender identity at a very young age and feel discomfort when others reject it, preventing them from seeing and experiencing it. Some will resist and others relent but the ground has been laid for future problems.

This is different than rejecting a "non binary " way of living by forcing a binary existence onto a non- binary person.

It is not socially constructed and cannot be socially destroyed without destroying the individual. This is true for all Cis people and Cis people are likely a minority in the world but institutions have made them seem like a majority.

Transgender is the natural way to live for non-binary people. I believe when all social constraints and influences are removed most people will find this a very natural way to live. Gender roles come out of sex and society with society pointing to sex to make the laws that enforce the gender roles by claiming this is the natural order. These gender roles feel comfortable, normal, correct, natural for binary people.

If they do not feel this way than they are either transgender or transsexual and both are biological creations in that all binary and non binary people are expressions of their biology first and foremost.

A transsexual is a Cis person (binary) born with a birth defect. A transgender person is a non binary person who may or may not be struggling against the social constraints and consequences of not being Cis (binary)

Someone who is binary has a more black or white relationship to gender and may not see gender but only sex as man or women but usually will acknowledge that there are feminine men and masculine women but they are still very much one or the other in their eyes. Binary masculine men will see a feminine man as "less than" (biologically inferior).

The binary "see's" the non-binary but remains in the binary.

All crossdressers are transgendered in that they are not binary.

It is not about man or woman, transsexual or transgender but the confusion about the differences between binary and non binary people.

A transsexual is a binary person born with a birth defect forcing them to live a non-binary existence. This is unnatural to them and will make them sick.

The problem is that many psychological experiences can damage a persons identity as a human being and with the "transgender mania" the label applied to this can be gender dysphoria.

A son could identify with his mother through trauma bonding (abuse) so the son has no human identity in that there is a complete absence of self that has been supplanted by mother as identity.

A female uneasy with the male gaze could interpret this discomfort as the discomfort of gender dysphoria and alter her body to escape the male gaze.

In our hypersexualized culture it is easy to understand the reasons someone would want to "de-sexualize their body"

Anyone who makes the mistake of thinking they are non-binary when they are binary or binary when they are non-binary will make themselves mentally ill by transgressing what is their "natural state"

An example is Kaitlyn Jenner who I believe is a crossdresser (non-binary) who lost their core self identity through being marginalized in a house of famous women and is now trying to live a binary existence which is unnatural and will eventually make Kaitlyn mentally ill.

I have lived in the LGBT world my whole life. I have never met a person not wounded by the experience of being "thrust" into it. It is the misunderstood "understanding" of the source of these wounds and the consequences that add to and prevent the healing of the original wounds.

All people who identify as LGBT are non-binary but transsexuals are not actually a part of this because they are binary.

A transsexual may feel comfortable in the non binary world but this is a consequence of having been made to live in it. They plant one foot in each world and why they are often seen as spiritual advisors. They act as a bridge between binary and non-binary people who usually are in conflict with one another.

With the exception of crossdressers, binary people tend to be conservative and non-binary liberal. Transsexuals are both and neither. Heterosexual crossdressers led to crossdressing through sex (adoration of the female) tend to be conservative. They cross over to escape the pressures of masculinity.

When I write it is my often feeble attempt not to add to the burden someone is already carrying. It is not that I discount the suffering but fear adding to it by not truly understanding its source.

I very much fear jumping on bandwagons or joining cheering sections. We humans are far to complex to think understanding ourselves is an easy task and in the end it is probably an impossible task but I believe better too try than to give up.

In my opinion it is vital we do not make the mistake of misunderstanding the true source of our suffering and pain.

[pamela7]

Hi Kelly,
Crikey, what a post. I'd like to check if I've got your perception right, if I may.

So a true "MTF TS" is a person with an XY genetic code but for whom the testosterone was missing during at least the critical time of the brain development in utero, thereby developing a female brain? And you're saying that anything else is fundamentally due to conditioning, responses to life's traumas and ego development?

There have been studies showing that most TS brains are neither 100% male nor 100% female, but something different, bits of both, varyingly but also something else, different.

My psychological theory has 10 different ways in which a person could develop conditioning to generate cross-gender needs, and many sociological reasons to rebalance male and female energy in both sexes (including anima/animus returns). By carefully undoing all possible mind structures, I did get back to the womb experience, and I know my brain is different.

We are a spectrum, even with degrees of lack of T in utero for example, for T at different phases of parts of the brain developing. I'm not sure if i'm binary or non, but I do know I'm happy being and presenting as a woman, as myself, and that the mirror is now me. Can anyone ever really say more than that?

xxx

[elizabethamy]

Pamela,
I'm on the team of people that can't quite unravel Kelly's definitions and descriptions. I used to be desperate to find a cause for my trans-ness but the longer you deal with being trans the less you care how it started, though it seems important to others. Once again, Kaitlyn Michele has nailed it: when you get to the point where you can't think about anything else, where you're absolutely paralyzed by obsession about your gender, then you have to act. Where does the obsession come from? I don't know. What can make it go away? Transition. Nothing else. Thus, time to move forward. Binary, not binary, transition to what? Again, it feels deeply inner: something you just know. At that point, who cares what anyone calls you or how they define you. you just have to live your life.

[Teresa]

Pamela,
I'm going to agree with you OK in very simplistic terms we are born as we are , whatever the process and chemistry changes that happened or didn't during pregnancy once we are born the die is set . To many of us it's not so much the problem of how we deal with it but how others deal with it . Going back to the OP is Jess going to struggle with aspects of transition mainly because of outside influences . If transition was an accepted everyday occurence how much easier would people find it . How much is the discussion of reversals based on social pressures .

While I agree with much of Kelly Jameson's comments , the one I find questionable is the impression we are not normal people because we were born with a birth deformity , again do those comments come from internal or external strife ? I also agree that sexuality and gender are separate enitities and it can cloud our thinking but to some they are so intertwined it is sometimes difficult to know what is influencing our actions , what the basic driving force is .

[Jeri Ann]

I'm so scared of losing everything. I have a decent career in IT, and don't want to risk losing it because of a transition.

I struggle like heck, even currently as a cis-male when it comes to interviewing for new positions. Prior to my current role, I was unemployed for a year because I couldn't find a job. Then earlier this year, things got rocky at my job and I though I was going to get laid off again. 9 months, 10 phone interviews, and 2 face-to-face interviews later, I'm still at my current job. It was a humbling experience to know that even in this "hot" job market, a cis white male still struggles with employment. I can't even imagine having to do this while trans.

I have no Plan B, no side hustle, no family support, nothing. It's a huge roll of the dice, and so far, it's that uncertainty that keeps me from doing it.:sad:

Hey Jess,

Pertaining to your original post, being trans/transitioning is not necessarily a deal breaker for employment in IT. I have two friends here in the Houston area that work in IT. Both are trans. They both say that about half of the employees where they work are nonbinary and several have transitioned. One of my friends works for Microsoft and the other works for Texas Instruments, I think.

Now springing off what Kelly J., Kaitlyn and Kymberly have said: Kelly brilliantly describes the transsexual condition and how it relates to the rest of the TG population. It probably is not possible for some people to agree or unravel what she says if they have not experienced the condition and completely gone through the transition process. Her perception may not pertain to everyone but it definitely sheds light on my personal truth.

I am binary. I was born female with a “birth defect”. Kelly’s use of this term is NOT out of line because the life long angst that the physical anomaly causes makes it feel as such. Also, society, in general, believes there is something wrong with us. And, the condition requires surgery to correct. Because of all of this I lived most of my life trying to be “normal” as most of the world I lived in would define it. I think it is obvious that Kelly was implying this. What is most important is to know and understand that we each have our own normal.

Kaitlyn always has a great perspective on being transsexual and transitioning. At the very core of this issue is her question, “Why do you want to Transition?” And her caution to, “don't get caught up in the girly stuff...the adventures (i know i did)....the times a guy flirted or the moment you passed...(i know i did)...”.
Experiences that are adrenaline and endorphin releasing can lead to a bad decision. When I announced my transition a member here pm’d me and told me that I was “Living the dream.” My transition was actually more like a nightmare.

Kymberly said that she was going to start a thread entitled “Before it's too late.” It would be wonderful to know your truth and transition at a young age. I lament about this some. I regret that I couldn’t experience my first date, prom, meeting Mr. Right, marriage and being a wife and mom. When I express this to my friends they all say something like, “But you wouldn’t be who you are now and where you are now.”

Too late? I transitioned a year and a half ago. I was 66. At 67 I went to Guadalajara for FFS and BA. Certain that I was the oldest on record to have such surgery I asked, Vicente, my host and personal caretaker for my ten day recovery stay at his Villa, if I was the oldest. He said no that three years before he took care of a person that was 84.

In nine days I will be 68. The next day I have a consultation with Dr. Keelee MacPhee, a plastic surgeon and SRS specialist in NC to discuss SRS. I have already initiated pre approval with my insurance company.

It is never too late. You will know if and when you need to transition. As Kaitlyn says, “you can’t think of ANYTHING else...your brain is filled with nonstop gender dysphoria that never lets you have a moments peace...or you don’t question it all..you know without any prevarication or doubt at all...When you "have to" is not a casual thing...it is a meaning of life type of thing.” A while back she used an analogy of her male life being in a towel. You wring that towel until nothing else will come out.

The meaning of life can only be known when you know your truth, who and what you are. When you know and embrace that, then you can live as your authentic self. If that involves transition, then things will work out. It may not be possible to plan or anticipate how things work out but they will. You may have to relocate, change careers, lose friends, the list is long but it will not matter. Living as your authentic self could also result in you exuding authenticity and confidence that might be a game changer in a job interview, just sayin’.

[Nikki.]

Pamela,
I'm on the team of people that can't quite unravel Kelly's definitions and descriptions. I used to be desperate to find a cause for my trans-ness but the longer you deal with being trans the less you care how it started, though it seems important to others. Once again, Kaitlyn Michele has nailed it: when you get to the point where you can't think about anything else, where you're absolutely paralyzed by obsession about your gender, then you have to act. Where does the obsession come from? I don't know. What can make it go away? Transition. Nothing else. Thus, time to move forward. Binary, not binary, transition to what? Again, it feels deeply inner: something you just know. At that point, who cares what anyone calls you or how they define you. you just have to live your life.

This. Or as I like to say, “I’d just like my brain back.” Maybe read more than half a page in a book without my mind wandering back to gender....sigh...

[Dorit]

Reading this thread is a very emotional experience for me, I am on the edge of tears. Kelly, Jeri Ann, Kaitlin; your abilities to express what I have experienced all my life is a gift to this forum and to people like me. I have myself recently said to someone that I don't care one bit if you think I am mentally ill, for the first time in my life medical science has a "cure" for me. Even at 70 years old, I am taking the cure! Over ten years ago I began to unwind the tangled mess in me of all the internalized rejection, self-hatred and anger. I have been on HRT for one year, I had FFS one month ago, my GRS is in two months. No, I would not wish this on anyone, I certainly had no say in how I was born, but am deeply grateful to have lived to see the day when I can be healed!

PS: I am crying now, tears of release.

[Aunt Kelly]

I very much fear jumping on bandwagons or joining cheering sections. We humans are far to complex to think understanding ourselves is an easy task and in the end it is probably an impossible task but I believe better too try than to give up.

In my opinion it is vital we do not make the mistake of misunderstanding the true source of our suffering and pain.

Let me too, praise your insight and your effective way of sharing it, Kelly. Most of all though, I latched onto the quote above. Sorting out things like this can be difficult. Sometimes it never happens, but the pursuit is vital because understanding ourselves is everything.

Hugs,


Kelly

[KellyJameson]

Hi Pamela

It makes me a bit apprehensive to use the phrase a "True MtF TS" because of the danger of delegitimizing a persons being, identity, pain, confusion, suffering and most importantly their humanity.

There is much fighting in the trans community about who is and is not authentic ( a real man or woman) but no one can define or determine another persons authenticity. Among MtF this could be expressed as one person saying they are a true woman because they have transitioned or because they pass.

Transitioning does not cure the birth defect of misalignment. It does not make a person a "whole woman" as a being who is biologically capable of reproduction. A binary person believes that a woman and man are named as such because of their biological connection to reproduction. A non-binary person believes a man and woman is not restricted or defined by reproduction (sex).

A binary Cis woman will feel like she has lost something of the experience of being a woman if she has a breast removed or when she reaches menopause. A binary man will feel the same way if he is not able to have an erection or losses a testicle to cancer. They were binary people who are pushed into a non-binary way of life.

Their gender identity is being separated from their body

Transitioning only reduces the pain of being a binary person trapped in a non-binary existence. It offers the possibility of self actualization by reducing the traumatic effects of being born with a brain "sexed as female" in a male body (MtF) which is dramatically different than being born a feminine male.

The body and brain are "sexed" at different times during fetal development.

True authenticity is discovering ones own authentic experience and it is largely irrelevant if others see this authenticity even though it may be helpful in the search for this authenticity to have others see it, but the inverse is true in that it can also prevent someone from the self discovery that leads to authenticity.

Whether someone transitions or not, it is meaningless to use their physical appearance as a determinant of their inner experience of misalignment because they may never connect what they are experiencing to being born "misaligned" and the inverse is true in that someone could transition but not be actually sexed as that which they are trying to represent.

I share my understanding of the experience and what I have learned because this led to my becoming authentic. I am no longer sickened by the experience of being female brain sexed in a male body but I still feel the loss of not being "binary"

I am not crippled any longer but I am also not healed. Being "seen" as I know myself "to be" is a part of this healing and also changing my hormonal state and physical body so the skin I live in feels natural helps me live the "binary experience" . I do not feel attacked by my own body any longer. I am at peace but the ache to experience that which I will never experience will always remain with me.

Transitioning is not a cure. It only makes the unbearable "bearable" and than not always.

Those who are transgender also feel inauthentic by trying to force themselves to live in a binary world but this inauthenticity is an aspect of living among others and is a social consequence. It is "other created"

I did not need others to feel inauthentic. I only had to look between my legs when three years old to notice I did not look like other girls but this noticing was because of that which was already there as to my identity.

This "knowing" naturally manifested itself by the experience of "knowing others" who were and were not like me.

My mind recognized its "sexed self" in those who were "sexed" as I was.

I responded to boys very much like girls responded to boys who sensed they were different from them.

I have always known boys were different from me. That I was not one of them.

I have never belonged to the male tribe or wished to become a member or be included. Males though interesting are experienced as "The others" where girls were immediately experienced as the same as me (My tribe)

[Nikki.]

After a certain amount of introspection about all this, I find myself in an endless loop of naval gazing and really just need to move on with life living. Otherwise, what’s the point....

[KymberlyOct]

Along with others I agree it has become an interesting thread, however WE ( myself included ) have kind of veered off the original topic. I do hope the moderators leave it open because it has stirred some interesting discussion.

That said, I consider myself quite self aware and I like to be introspective in addition to contemplating the whys and hows of many things in life including gender and the role that both societal conditioning plays and how our environment, life experience and prenatal brain formation may contribution to being transgender/TS/gender issues etc.

But when all is said and done isn't being happy the point? The resolution of emotional or mental pain. The elimination of stress.

Jess is looking for answers for herself regarding transitioning relating to her concerns over her career. We can't answer this for her but I do hope we have/ can provide some insightful thoughts for her and anyone else reading this.

We can ponder and pontificate on definitions and causes of GD and I think that is interesting and worthwhile - but in the end try to figure out .....

What is going to make me happier and more at peace?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

OP had not responded...LOL..

and we go around and around!!

OP has posted in Clothing and shopping section tho!!

so that's that....

[Jeri Ann]

Thanks for the heads up Kaitlyn. I never look at the clothing/shopping section so I would not have known. Eight days without a comment? With that I am outa here.

[KatrinaK]

For what it’s worth, we have a transsexual in our IT department at the tech company I consult for, and she’s treated no differently than any of our other employees, gays, lesbians, cis, straight, and little old genderfluid me with my painted fingernails. You may be over thinking this. That said, there are currently no real federal rights for us, so it does depend to a certain degree which state (or country) you’re in.

If you don’t live somewhere where your rights are protected and where you may feel threatened, consider moving to a place that would accept you. In California, your question is absurd (no offense) because you’d be able to retire from the discrimination lawsuit you’d win if anyone had an opinion.

[Rianna Humble]

As has been pointed out, the OP has not been seen since the start of the thread. Time to call it a day.