Transformation or Present as a Man in a Dress

[Andrea2656]

We were out to dinner an having a drink in the bar. There was a group of 5 people have a drink, 3 women and two men. The men were nicely dressed in cocktail attire with simple but flattering jewelry. They both wore their hair long but in a relatively androgynous fashion. One has nice highlighting. One of the men sported a beard along with nicely done eye makeup and perfectly polished nails. Both men were nicely dressed but without any effort to present as a woman.

When I dress, my goal is to transform myself. I want the womanly curves that I can achieve with breast forms and hip pads. I don a wig and try to do my makeup to the best of my ability. Though I am sure I wold not pass, I would like to be transformed.

My experience in the restaurant in one approach. Simply enjoy woman's clothing and accessories but not trying to transform oneself. The other approach is to transform oneself to present as our inner woman. Both approaches are valid. However, I was wondering what your goal is: Transformation or MIAD?

Andrea

[Beverley Sims]

I am assuming female cocktail attire, from your description they could have been presenting as neatly dressed men.

If they were miad's it sounds a better presentation than some.

For me a miad is just a political statement.

Me?

I dress as a woman would.

[Andrea2656]

Beverly,

You are correct. Cocktail dresses not men's attire.

Andrea

[HollyGreene]

Transformation, definitely.

When I get my makeup and wig right (it doesn't happen every time, because I just don't get enough practice), I love the feeling of being out there, seen as a woman.
(well, I am hoping that I am being seen as a woman!)

[DIANEF]

I believe people should be allowed to present however they feel, MIAD, andro, beards, whatever. Personally I would only ever be happy with a full transformation, whether going out or staying indoors. I want to look like, and be seen as, a GG (or as close as I can get)

[Bea_]

I can appreciate the full transformation end of the spectrum, but I'm more androgynous to MIAD. I'm mostly closeted with an occasional more androgynous outing. I haven't done makeup, but probably would if the wife were more accepting. Even then, I'd be a man with makeup.

I miss my younger, thinner physique, but i tend to like my man-bod including the modest man-boobs.

[Rachael Leigh]

While out I do prefer the full transformation I do go out andro now and again and most days at work I’ve got some type of
female clothing on and wear makeup but am still male in look

[carhill2mn]

My "goal" is to look as much like a woman as I can and to act like a lady.

[Robertacd]

It depends on if I am leaving the house or not. If I am staying in, I don't bother with make up, jewelry, and all the fine details. But if I am going to be out in public, then blending is a must for me. So I do everything I can to present as feminine.

[Tracii G]

I agree Carole.

[phili]

I am an unapologetic MIAD, and would do as the men you saw, except no makeup. I'm a former hippie all natural type and although I react like any other man to the beautiful look makeup confers, and in high school drama I was amazed at how wonderful my eyes looked with mascara, I really am put off by it unless it is the makeup you can't see or feel. Otherwise I feel like I am seeing a coating, not the skin and reality of the person.

I have the same feeling about forms. Even though when I put on a padded bra I love the look I can get [from the neck down]. I don't want to wear it around others, since it feels like false advertising to me and dressing in feminine clothes is meant to broadcast my reality as a feminine person. I don't like to see padding on women either for the same reason- I feel like she has adopted a formal disguise. I don't begrudge her that, since it is more important for a woman to look like am 'attractive' woman just to get by, and she may not like it any more than I do!

I absolutely know I can feel as feminine as any female can, and manly as well, [as females can, too]. So I don't regard my crossdressing without trying to simulate being female as a political statement. I think it is just a simple statement of the diversity of human nature, but most importantly, my nature as one point in the gazillion points that make up humanity.

Obviously many females and males love makeup and padding and emulating female appearance ideals, and each person has a point where they feel successful in that. I really am happy when people achieve their appearance goals. I do feel it is important to stand up and object when people try to use political means of control to force others to dress or groom in ways they don't feel authentic.

[Queen Bridget]

I find myself in between Transformation and Miad.

I love women's clothing and makeup. But at the same time, it isn't my mission to "pass" either.

I just roll with it and don't worry about all the labels.

[2B Natasha]

Are you SURE they where men? There are women that sport facial hair. So much so they have beards and mustaches. Such as little bear Schwartz. https://www.google.com/amp/s/broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/4xkznq/bearded-lady-little-bear-schwarz-makes-facial-hair-intensely-feminine Makes here no less a lady.

[Micki_Finn]

Neither. Transformation implies becoming something “else” and I’m always a gorgeous woman no matter if I’m showing it off to the world or not.

[Wildaboutheels]

I wear clothing items that I like that fit me well. (IMO anyway) SOME of those items are sold in the "female" sections of various stores.

SO WHAT?

I "help educate" SOME people when I go out "dressed" but that is simply a product of my presentation not a GOAL.

Judging a book by it's cover is not a good idea and neither is judging a man (or woman) by their "presentation".

[Debra Russell]

When I dress it is to emulate feminine and appear as womanly as possible. If someone wears androgynous apparel that's ok just not my bag - but I am put off by feminine clothing on someone not presenting as female, I mean to me it's just silly and stands out as exhibitionist. I am mot judgmental, condemning or pointing fingers - but it just seems silly, I mean why? ………………………….Debra

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Andrea :hugs:, For me it is All or Nothing when I dress to look as natural and feminine as possible.

I just don't get the MIAD thing at all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Orchid..o:daydreaming:..

[Jaymees22]

Personally I like to dress head to toe to the best of my abilities.
Sometimes my abilities are somewhat lacking, other times not.

As far as MIAD I can see it as a much more honest presentation.

[Patience]

For me a miad is just a political statement.

Going full femme might be construed as a political statement as well.

For me, dressing means bringing into view what I feel is the "flip side" of my male self.

The flip side of the male cannot be male.

[NancySue]

Interesting thread and interesting responses. Years ago, I achieved the final stage...dressing completely using everything needed to look as much like a woman as possible, including things other than clothes, i.e. shaving legs, arm pits, chest, etc. feminine deodorant, bath powder, moisturizer, etc. My lovely wife, a former model, is very feminine and I’ve copied many of the things she does, except I still wear nylons and heels. Not bragging..I’ve gone out and passed. Daily, I wear something female underneath. Mark my goal as definitely TRANSFORMATION.

[rachel_rachel]

Today is the third day in a row I’ve had an opportunity to dress up, so I take it while I can.. that said though, I was thinking about no make up today just but that didn’t happen. It’s full on or nothing for me at the moment. Not that I’m leaving the house, I’m just taking photos so I’ve something to look nice for.

[Brandi Christine]

Definitely transformation, there are times I underdress when unable to all girly (to shop, etc...) but my goal is total transformation.

[jjjjohanne]

I present as a man in a dress. I do not own any/a makeup, bra, pads, forms, wig. I try to wear clothes that are pretty, but do not destroy my masculinity. I avoid flowers, pastels, bows, etc.
I go out in public occasionally. Society accepts me pretty well. Years ago, I would get unusual looks, and people would whisper to their companions. That does not seem to happen any more. It started changing after the whole Caitlin Jenner thing. I guess people realized, "OK, these people are out there and it is not like seeing an endangered animal."

Joey

[Asew]

Going full femme might be construed as a political statement as well.
I was thinking the same thing!

And to steal Phil's quote from earlier, I too am a "unapologetic MIAD". I don't feel like I have some inner woman that needs to be expressed, so I have no need for a full transformation.

[Cheryl T]

Transformation.
I have no interest in being seen as a man in a dress.

[kimdl93]

My intention is to present as a woman. How I’m perceived by others is something else.

[Wildaboutheels]

GOOD GRIEF people. Pot meet Kettle.

You don't "like" the way some choose to "present". Fine by me and obviously many others.

I find it odd that some here would go "all out" in their presentation and not do anything about their FT arms. Something so very easy to cheaply fix in under a minute. I have lived 64 of my 66 years in Florida and yet to see a "real" GG, sporting FT arms.

Some of the "whining" here MIGHT stop a newbie from participating at this Forum and/or venturing out into the RW.

Is that your goal?

https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?260422-How-to-be-abetter-CDer-in-one-simple-step

[Becky Blue]

When I am out my objective is to blend in and be as close to being a natural woman as possible... besides some boob enhancement i don't use hips or breastplates, I try dress to make the most of my body shape. Personally I feel that I am most definitely NOT making any political statement as I am blending in and trying to be just another woman out there enjoying her life.. the more one tries to blend in the less political.. this girls opinion!

[Kas]

GOOD GRIEF people. Pot meet Kettle.

You don't "like" the way some choose to "present". Fine by me and obviously many others.

I find it odd that some here would go "all out" in their presentation and not do anything about their FT arms. Something so very easy to cheaply fix in under a minute. I have lived 64 of my 66 years in Florida and yet to see a "real" GG, sporting FT arms.

Some of the "whining" here MIGHT stop a newbie from participating at this Forum and/or venturing out into the RW.

Is that your goal?

WTH is FT arms???

[RachelPortugal]

For me it's transformation - man in a dress is not something my wife would accept when we venture out in public.

I make no pretence that I pass as a woman. I just try to blend and not attract unwanted attention. Yes I wear breast forms, which my wife questioned at first when she saw realistic nipples and areola, worrying that it was a first step toward becoming a trans-woman, but she accepts that they help with the blending and filling out blouses and dresses better than the "chicken fillets" I had before. Hips and butt are never enhanced, my wife thinks that is altogether unnecessary, even for my skinny butt, so I go along with her wishes.

Most of my jeans are comfortable female cuts, so when in male mode I often sport a semi androgynous look without bra or forms.

But, each to their own.

Also have no idea what FT arms are.

[KimberlyJean]

Everyone has the right to present how they want, we come in many flavors and are at different places on our journeys. Seriously, what are FT arms and how do I make this simple change!

[phili]

Our wonderful Forum exists and thrives because there are so many of us in the pool of cross-gender expression.

The OP references the two ends of just one of the relevant spectrums or ways we can look at ourselves: Perfect Passing and Completely Masculine Presence while sporting some article of women's clothing or grooming. Each of us fits in there somewhere in actual accomplishment.

But what do we even mean by accomplishment? There are parallel spectrums operating:
^What are our actual references here for with standard idealized male female imagery at the ends of the poles. Nympho sex goddess or soccer mom or grandmother, or ? Silver fox, infantry assault leader, NFL quarterback, or tackle ?

IMO- the huge fault with this construction of gender is that it is not clearly defined, and yet establishes a tight link between appearance and options for personal character,

^How comfortable we are with the spectrum as we define it? Do we wish there was more freedom or do we just want to compete in the race as we see it?

IMO- All its forms are destructive and should be done away with! I realize this is just my take, and others cherish and enjoy the spectrums.

^How we imagine we look vs how we look to others! - [there are lots of internet picture jokes on that one]

IMO- as a MIAD I am choosing not to compete in the race to look like a female- since I am sure I can't win or even place. I think transformation looks like a lot of fun, but I don't want to spend that much time trying to disguise my reality, on a regular basis.

-Our satisfaction with our accomplishment - how close are we to what we want - an are we getting nearer or farther?

IMO- I wish everyone just feel free to embrace desired clothing and behavior, anywhere we want on the masculine/feminine spectrum, WITHOUT having to worry about whether or not we look like a male or female, or adhere to the standard packages.

-% of time we think we want to be in our crossdressed mode [ with asterisks for all the various reasons we do or don't]


-Sense of exciting transgression when we crossdress vs just us being us as we would have it


No wonder being a crossdresser provides tons of things to talk about!

[Wildaboutheels]

So APPARENTLY, lots of people who water here and have posted to this thread, can read minds.

???

Nope. Just because you walked by 10 people or 100 (while "dressed" )and no one batted an eye, does NOT mean you "passed" as a woman. No matter how many here claim it. Which is NOT saying no one should even bother or try if that is your GOAL with dressing/presenting.

FT or TD? Farmer Tan or Truck Driver arms. Dead giveaway. At least in my state.

Florida is known as The Sunshine State.

IT SAYS SO ON THE BOTTOM OF OUR LICENSE PLATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where in my post did I say there are no female truck drivers or farmers in my state? How silly of you to try to put words in my mouth!!!

I feel pretty confident there are plenty. I also feel pretty sure they frequent all the stores I shop at, far LESS than other folks because they are too busy trying to eke out a living. It is also likely, in their free time, they spend time OUTdoors w/o their work attire on, likely decreasing their "work" tan.

I cannot view profiles RH. Maybe you also have lived in Florida for 64 years? Maybe you have seen plenty? Or see plenty of GGs in YOUR state with FT arms?

[Rianna Humble]

That is a very mean-spirited comment and not at all constructive.

For many people, passing is about going out dressed as they wish without getting negative reactions from those who see them in public.

Are you saying that in your state, there are no women farmers or women truck drivers? I would be very surprised if that were true.

[Stephanie47]

What does "without any effort to present as a woman" mean?

I posted to another MIAD thread moments ago. Short answer is a question. Does the person with the beard in some way feel like a woman or think he is feeling like a woman? Or is he wearing the womanly garb because he likes women's clothing and it is no more than that? Could be bald with a beard. Hirsute legs and arms. What is his motivation? Notice I intentionally used the male pronouns. If you do not feel you are emulating a woman..just wearing the clothes of a woman....then do not use the female pronouns.

If you are wearing the clothes of a woman and believe there is something inside you motivating you to appear womanly, then it is more than just the clothes. That my opinion. I do find it perplexing that a man would want to wear the attire of a woman, but, yet deny mental vestiges of being a woman in some limited way. Is there a possibility the MIAD with a beard wants to appear as such because he does not want to appear as a man deceiving others?

When Stephanie47 stirs inside me she wants to appear as herself and not that sack of male protoplasm hanging onto those larger bones. Due to some degree of maturity brought on by life experiences she realizes there is a vast spectrum out there as to what genetic woman look like. She is not stuck on some ill defined concept of what a "ten" looks like. Yes, Stephanie wants to have boobs. And, no, Stephanie does not have the desire to have a Barbie doll figure and get consumed with constricting her waist or enlarging her hips. Most genetic women I have known over the years, who are comfortable with their bodies, are not consumed with appearances to the extent MtF cross dressers are consumed. Look around you. What do you see in the real world?

[Krisi]

My goal is to bee seen as a woman. I would never go out as a man in a dress. It's either Krisi or Homer. Never "Kromer".

- - - Updated - - -


For many people, passing is about going out dressed as they wish without getting negative reactions from those who see them in public.


There's passing and there's passing. When I was a teenager we all talked about our cars. Some of us had "two foot cars" (looked good from two feet away). Some of us had "twenty foot cars" (had to be twenty feet away to look good). And of course, some wouldn't pass the twenty foot test.

So, some of us might pass up close for a short time (say, passing on the sidewalk). Some of us would fail that test but pass to a person walking on the other side of the street. Some of us might not pass a block away.

As for negative reactions, that's mostly to do with the people you come in contact with. Go to the gay part of town and you're less apt to have negative reactions than some other parts of town.

[Kas]

FT or TD? Farmer Tan or Truck Driver arms. Dead giveaway. At least in my state.


Omg I got FT arms! Nooooooo! Seriously, how do I fix it in under a minute?

[Elena77]

Omg I got FT arms! Nooooooo! Seriously, how do I fix it in under a minute?

:lol2: Start farming in a sleeveless dress :p I joke I joke.