Rant about "masculine" men and being noticed

[Rhonda Jean]

This is mostly just to get something off my chest. I've been going out in public on a pretty frequent basis for more than 40 years. You'd thing nothing would bother me anymore, and it usually doesn't. Yesterday something really got to me. Something that on another day I probably wouldn't have given a second thought.

I went to Goodwill to make a donation and while I was there I went in to shop. What I was wearing was all male, except for my shoes. Long 1/4 zip top, somewhat tight to the ankle exercise-type pants, and a pair of Anne Klein slides with no heel. Identifiable as women's? Yeah, probably, but not exactly screaming it, either. I had even left my purse in the car and carried my wallet and phone in my hand. This was not 50:50 mode. More like 98:2.

I was browsing the shoe racks and I see this big muscled guy and a girl coming to the shoes. He makes himself obvious by staring at my shoes as he's coming toward me and continues to look after he's passed. They get on the other side of the rack and he starts commenting on my shoes and over all what I was wearing. Making fun of me. I go to another part of the store. Every time I end up on the same aisle as them, he's looking and commenting to his girlfriend with a smirk on his face. She doesn't appear to be reacting.

This is so typical. He tries to make himself a bigger man to his girlfriend by exposing me to his girlfriend, then continuing to pile on. I'm sure that everyone who reads this has had similar experiences. It doesn't happen every time, but it happens often enough that it shouldn't phase me. Yesterday it phased me alright. Made me wonder why in the hell I continue to subject myself to this kind of thing. Still can't answer that question. I'm sure I'll do it a million more times in my life. These guys just make my skin crawl!!

My opinion... These guys get a little "urge" when they see somebody like me, and they compensate by turning on their "big man" persona.

[Patience]

Sorry you had to endure that. You don’t say where you are (neither do I, for that matter), but that type of guy exists everywhere.

Obviously, he was trying to compensate for something. I’m sure the lady in question felt you had more confidence than him by going out as you pleased, regardless of what people might think.

I won’t press the question, but what exactly did he say? Was he obviously trying to make sure you heard him?

[Crissy 107]

Unfortunately there will always be jerks like that and I think it is just crap with him trying to look macho in front of his girlfriend. Sorry you had this negative experience. Crissy

[Fran-K]

“Made me wonder why in the hell I continue to subject myself to this kind of thing.”

Because if you/we stop then they win?

Anyway, thanks for subjecting yourself ... it wasn’t deserved and I am/ we all are sorry for it
Of the three people, you were far the bigger one there.

Fran

[Helen_Highwater]

Rhonda Jean,

Simple, big muscles, small brain.

[Tracii G]

Sorry that happened to you and yes most of us that are "out" or go out enfemme have had things like that happen.
Sometimes situations like that can be years apart but they always are kind of unnerving.
Usually I tend to stare back and they will look away.
Guys like that I am just not afraid of because 99% of tough guys won't do anything with their wife with them.

[Tracy Irving]

Perhaps he has some sort of inferiority issue and he needs to build himself up by knocking others down.

[Aunt Kelly]

He was obviously afraid... afraid for his girlfriend if she had to use the restroom while you were around. EVERYONE knows what dangerous predators we are.

[Alice Torn]

There are plenty of masculine macho guys who are secret or not so secret cders. Some on here, are those. Not all very masculine guys will do what that guy did. There is nothing wrong with guys being strong, and masculine, but, to harass others not hurting others is never right. If you were naked, he would have reason to say something.

[Stephanie47]

This sort of male behavior is not uncommon. It is a short coming in his psyche. Probably some sort of inferiority complex which he needs to compensate for, especially in front of a wife or girlfriend. This attitude is not limited to demeaning cross dressers. I've seen it over and over through out my 70+ years. On Interstate 5 in the Tacoma area something like this happened with a man with his wife in the car got upset about a motorcyclist on I-5. He kept "strutting his stuff" and finally intentionally rammed the motorcyclist with his car. That precipitated an argument which led to a push and shove which led to the motorcyclist shooting him in self defense. He picked on the wrong motorcyclist which happened to be a woman carrying a concealed weapons permit. Unfortunately the man's wife watched all this maleness escalate to his demise. I wonder if the wife had not been in the vehicle whether he would have continued for mile after mile to harass the motorcyclist?

I do not believe the man who was harassing you is a cross dresser. He probably has a long list of people he does not like due to his own inadequacies.

[Crissy 107]

I agree with Alice that certainly not all masculine guys would do that. Fortunately the % is pretty low I think, but having it happen even once is unacceptable. My guess is his girlfriend also thought he was a jerk though I would not bet too much on it. Crissy

[Maria in heels]

Rhonda....sorry to hear that you had to go thru something like this. Of course, there have always been and will be jerks who think that it makes them look "bigger" to point out someone's "flaws" as they see them. Just remember, "God hates ugly" and karma has a strange way of correcting these things...

[Roxanne Lanyon]

That is why I am feminine. I so want to be a gentle, sweet, caring person, not like some of these. I will be the first to put my arm around you, kiss your cheek, and say, "Poor Baby".
Roxanne

[DIANEF]

There is a saying in my part of the world; 'all mouth and no trousers', I think you can work out what no trousers means. So far in my travels I haven't experienced anything like this, maybe it is a just a matter of time. There are the neanderthal types everywhere you go unfortunately, I am so glad I am as far from them as I can possibly be.

[Bobbi46]

Sadly there will always be jerks and pillocks like that , I think if I came up on something like that I would say something on the lines of telling the jerk not to be so narrow minded and gender biased. In a shop oit is highly unlikely to get serious.

[Rhonda Jean]

Sorry you had to endure that. You don’t say where you are (neither do I, for that matter), but that type of guy exists everywhere.

Obviously, he was trying to compensate for something. I’m sure the lady in question felt you had more confidence than him by going out as you pleased, regardless of what people might think.

I won’t press the question, but what exactly did he say? Was he obviously trying to make sure you heard him?

It wasn't so much what I actually heard him say. It was the way he went about it. He did make sure he said it in a way that I would be sure to know he was talking about me. They practically did an about-face to go to the other side of the rack to where he could peer through and I could hear him. All I actually heard were bits and pieces, like "Women's skinny pants" (they weren't), "pointy shoes that you slide on", and "like a woman".

I was overly sensitive about this. It just struck a chord with me yesterday. Usually wouldn't. I think what got me as much as anything is that it was ONE THING, the shoes. Everything else I had on was men's. Can I not wear one damn thing from the women's department without causing this?

The last time like this happened I was in line at a fast food place. It was back when I had long hair and I'd just had my hair done. I was in male mode. I don't remember what I was wearing. Probably feminine-leaning, but male. I might have been wearing nail polish. There were 2 guys waiting for their order. There was a tattoo parlor nearby, and I think these guys worked there. Lots of tattoos and piercings. They made a point of looking, whispering, and laughing among themselves, obviously at me. I remember thinking, "Of all the people to get their giggles at someone who looks a little out of the ordinary..." Drives me up the wall.

[MonicaPVD]

The world is full of hahsoles, and many have been empowered by the current political climate. Unfortunate.

[ElianaFrozenflame]

I am sorry this happened Rhonda. There clearly was nothing "masculine" about this behavior. Juvinille? Yes. Masculine? No.

[Beverley Sims]

Just a creep.

There is no other word for it.

[docrobbysherry]

American men r generally insecure. And therefore easily threatened! But, u were in a crowded venue as have I been when these issues happened to me. So, I didn't feel threatened. As a result I have gone from paranoid to simply being irritated.:straightface:

I've also found Americans to be open to discussion if u engage them in a friendly manner. Usually I don't have the time or energy. But, when I have, after chatting we were all wiser and happy!:thumbsup:

[Jean 103]

Sorry to hear that. I don’t think he made any points with his girl if she is like most.

Now if you were try and fight back, I think it could go either way but I would guess she would stand by her man.

The world is full of idiots. Still I have been there .

[Ineke Vashon]

There is a certain type of ueber "masculinity" that obviously is intended to protect a fragile mind. Recently I underwent a cat scan in which the operator gave me a, I believe, dye injection of some sort or another. She commented on how easy I took the needle. She volunteered that the more macho a man comes across the more chance of him being afraid of a simple needle. She told me a few even fainted.

I feel lucky to have a feminine side,

Ineke

[erickka]

That's just a common A- Hole suffering from "little man syndrome". I see that a lot , and I think it is totally unnecessary. Sorry you had to endure such behavior.

[alwayshave]

Rhonda Jean, my take on guys like this is that they are insecure in their own masculinity. For example, the short guy who spends three hours a day to make up for the missing six inches in height. He has some issue with himself he is transferring to you.

[Miss V]

Just some neanderthal posturing in front of his girl. These kinds are everywhere where I live. The reason I'd never go in public.

I can guarantee that it wasn't impressing his girl. If anything, he was probably annoying her.

[Ressie]

From your description it sounds like you looked quite effeminate. I would never have the balls to go out dressed like that myself, but:

On Halloween I actually did something similar. I saw it as a chance to wear a pair of pleather leggings I had. The "costume" was supposed to be an 80s Rocker, but the leggings tight fit around the ankles were obviously fem. Many people laughed and commented on the pants and it made me feel stupid for wearing them.

It seems much easier to go out totally en femme doesn't it?

[Majella St Gerard]

A lot of men that encounter people like us seem to have to prove their masculinity by acting in a macho superior manner by putting others down. I've always thought that if you have to prove you're a man then you must not be much of a man to begin with.

[Abbey11]

Sorry to hear you had to put up with that sort of behaviour, maybe he’s hiding his own secret and wanted to see how the girlfriend would react

[Tracii G]

The world is full of hahsoles, and many have been empowered by the current political climate. Unfortunate.

Please don't go there. That has nothing to do with guys like this.

[Patience]

It wasn't so much what I actually heard him say. It was the way he went about it. He did make sure he said it in a way that I would be sure to know he was talking about me. They practically did an about-face to go to the other side of the rack to where he could peer through and I could hear him. All I actually heard were bits and pieces, like "Women's skinny pants" (they weren't), "pointy shoes that you slide on", and "like a woman". I've said this before and I'll say it again: Says more about him than about you. You may think this is crazy, but in a way, the lout might have been expressing a form of admiration in the only way he felt he could, while keeping up the macho front he hides behind. I mean, his sudden obsession with you is a lot different from the indifference we hope to encounter when we successfully blend in when we go out dressed.


I was overly sensitive about this. It just struck a chord with me yesterday. Usually wouldn't. I think what got me as much as anything is that it was ONE THING, the shoes. Everything else I had on was men's. Can I not wear one damn thing from the women's department without causing this? Apparently not. Being alluring can be a curse. Ask any woman.

[Vickie_CDTV]

The world is full of hahsoles, and many have been empowered by the current political climate. Unfortunate.

There have always been guys like that, I have seen them under every political climate over the last 4 decades.

I once went to a mall dressed, alone. I had a somewhat similar situation. A guy and his girlfriend walked by me several times with a knowing grin and a "hi". Wasn't overtly rude like the OPs situation, but he read me and could tell he found me rather... amusing.

[Krisi]

Remember, this guy took his girlfriend to a Goodwill store to shop. He's not really that big of a man if that's where he does his shopping.

But, society expects men to be men and women to be women. If you try to blur that line, you're bound to find some resistance. You have the choice to conform and get along or not conform and have situations like you experienced. Way back in the 1960s I decided to wear my hair long and had similar situations.

[Lillyasia]

Tell the macho hero wannabe you're more man than him and more woman than he can handle (I read that in a thread here but can't remember from whom otherwise I would give credit).

It takes a brave man to wear women's clothes the first few times. And an every braver person to go out dressed. I think he is afraid he may actually be a CD underneath, or maybe even have some curiosity. The anger is to cover up the fear he has of you IMHO.

I think any of us who have gone out dressed have or will encounter someone like that eventually. Since he was talking to his girlfriend for your benefit to hear, you could do the same. Take out your phone and pretend to make a call and say some things about him but loud enough for him to hear.

[Macey]

If you go this route, make darn sure you can defend yourself or safely retreat. "Three-backs"* are dangerous when humiliated in front of their mates.


*On the evolutionary chart showing the most primitive primates onward up to a modern human, guys like these are about "three-back" on that chart.

[Alice Torn]

Maybe ask the guy if he would have the guts or kahonies to go out dressed in womens clothes. But, he would take offense to this, too, and come back at you.

[giuseppina]

Sorry you encountered this, RJ. I have a pair of women's flats that are indistinguishable from mens' shoes other than the shape of the toe (more rounded) that I have worn without comment, good, bad, or indifferent.

I don't know why his friend tolerates that nonsense. It's one of my dealbreakers.

[FrannGurl]

Anyone who is not a closet crossdresser and presents as effeminate or full out in public will either receive rude comments , stares, harassment, and so fourth. ...Unless they blend in. I have experienced this also

[Patience]

Remember, this guy took his girlfriend to a Goodwill store to shop. He's not really that big of a man if that's where he does his shopping.

Um, the OP was also shopping at GW. Granted, he's a CDer, but his masculinity shouldn’t be a victim of friendly fire.

I'm sorry, but the venue where the incident took place has no bearing on the matter. There is no venue where this sort of behavior can be excused. Besides, how do we know he wasn't there because the woman wanted to come in?

[t-girlxsophie]

Hope when they got home the girlfriend dug him up about just how did he notice what shoe's/denims you had on, not something most guys would notice or comment on

Sophie

[Aunt Kelly]

Tell the macho hero wannabe you're more man than him and more woman than he can handle (I read that in a thread here but can't remember from whom otherwise I would give credit).



This is seriously bad advice. Yes, if you turn a verbal slur into a dick-waving contest like that, you might make the seriously insecure bully back down, but if the thing escalates, in any of several possible scenarios, the record will show that it was you who did so. As in "You, the guy wearing women's clothes." If you're going to go out presenting as female, present as female. Defend yourself, if necessary, of course, but do not do anything that only your male self would consider.

[Becky Blue]

Sorry that happened to you Rhonda, even in todays enlightened times (all relative) there are still people in every corner of the world, who feel threatened by any variation from their little world, be it sexuality, gender or religion or even skin colour. Luckily they are the exception.

[SaraLin]

Not that I think it would have been a good idea - for several obvious reasons, but There's a (tiny) part of me that would have liked to turn to him and say (in the girliest voice I could drum up at the moment) "That's OK sweetie, you're not my type, so please stop checking me out."

Like I said - probably not a good idea, but...:devil:

[Lygophilia]

In my experience, non-religious people tend to be more tolerate on how you present yourself. He was raised/influenced the typical way. I feel that if they don't put their hands on you, then you have nothing to worry about.

[Stacy Darling]

I'm a skinny ass surfer dude which was a bodyguard for the local bikers. Go figure? The punces you describe are no more than Scum!

I may be intimidating at times yet I like to throw myself out there to knock down those overbearing ones! "even the playing field"
Stacy!

[Jean. Ann]

When this happen , I just react like a woman with class and style
would , and ignore the fool !
If anything that gets him much worse than a confrontation .

[Bobbi46]

This sort of thing sadly will never go away I think the kind of person who goes round saying things of derogitry nature within earshot of someone is seriously lacking in both good manners but also totally void of polite and intelligent upbringing, plus I think people who make comments like you heard are trying to cover a week side to their mentallity.
Sad to say it will happen again to all sorts of people.
You did the right thing to stay aloof and eventually walk away from the situation but it does dent ones nice day out. A pity it had to happen to you.

[Lululover]

I'm an underdresser and get more stares from wearing leggings and yoga pants than cder's get.
Last week my daughter and I went to a restaurant where you have to wait in the front entrance for a couple minutes.
I was in full drab mode wearing a white T-shirt, flannel shirt and a pair of women's skinny jeans with boots. There was a guy there with his wife and daughter. He was standing on one side and kept trying to get the attention of his wife to look at me. After she noticed, she whispered to her daughter and she immediately looked over at me so I knew she was talking about me. After they kept looking at me and snickering to each other, the husbands camera phone was pointing in my direction and he pretended he was texting. I'm sure I'm somewhere on the internet. Lol!
To me skinny jeans isn't a big issue, but it was to them.
If my daughter wasn't with me, I probably would have did some posing for them.

[Patience]

If there’s one thing I hate when going out dressed is having people photograph me without permission. I’ve only had it happen to me once (AFAIK), When I saw the phone camera pointing at me, I covered my face with my hand, holding up my middle finger. I’m a crossdresser, not a novelty act.

[Eemz]

Who's to say what was going on in his head, but guys react with aggression when they're frightened so your very existence was frightening and threatening to him in some way. Your best move is exactly what you did - give him a chance to retreat without losing face, especially with his GF there. If you attack he has no choice but to respond. If you back down then he's "winning" and he has to follow through. Take the high ground and give him a chance to back away barking and he will. You won and he knows it (as if you even care about winning over an a-hole like that).

[Emily Occasionally]

Don't worry about these people unless they are going to hurt you. Then call the cops. They just sound jealous because you gals are so fabulous. They just can't handle it. Plus you are free and they are trapped in their own narrow minded boxes where they think they are in control. Really it's their own fears and anxieties that control them. That being said it's never fun to have some one laugh and/or take pictures or other rude behavior in your direction. If they can't keep control of themselves then that's their problem. Those who were born women are judged on their clothes all the time so in a way being judged for wearing women's clothing is an honor if the goal of a crossdresser is to inhabit the feminine. That judgement is an aspect of that goal of achieving the height of femininity so the fact that they are taking the time to look at your outfit means you must be doing something right even if the attention is negative. I'm betting there are others who like your outfit but just don't say anything because they don't want to seem rude or whatever (I know I sometimes feel like I want to say something nice to a woman about what she's wearing but don't want to seem like I'm hitting on her or a creep or whatever so I just stay silent. The same might be true of others seeing a crossdresser since crossdressing has a stigma attached to it.) It's hard to give compliments but it's easy to look down on people and make fun of them just because they are different. It's a more optimistic way of looking at their behavior rather than worrying about what they think of you. You get to control the narrative about your dressing, they don't have the power to make you feel bad unless you let them. So just look at it as another step on the journey to true femininity. You might not get a positive response from people but that's on them. As Teddy Roosevelt said, "It is not the critic who counts. Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or how the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena." I'm not sure Teddy was talking specifically about crossdressing but I think that the quote applies here.

Should I find myself in a similar circumstance I'm not sure that I could keep my mouth shut...I always have to be the funny guy.

[Tracii G]

That is one long paragraph Emily.LOL
I agree don't let them take control its just best to ignore them.

[Crissy 107]

Emily, That was just post #9 for you, I can’t imagine how you are going to do when all the forums are open to you upon getting to #10. Crissy

[MisterEgurl]

It's a common practice among people with inclinations they feel ashamed of to loudly and consistently speak out against those inclinations. "Doth protest too loudly". It's either a tell that he is closeted, in denial, and is overcompensating or that he is highly insecure about his masculinity. Ignore it. That guys continual internal battles will pale in comparison to any argument you might offer.

[Diane Taylor]

Those type of "macho" idiots have been around forever and will always be here no matter how much time passes or how "enlightened" society becomes. It unfortunately goes with the territory.

[Pumped]

I work with a guy that is one of these super masculine jerks. The funny thing is when his wife shows up to talk to him about something, it shows that she obviously rules the roost! When mama is around he clams up and she lets him know what she expects of him. It is funny as hell to see them interact. Then she leaves and he returns to his good old macho self again.

It is pretty obvious he carries on like this because he has no power at home, so he acts all tough when she is not around. Funny, all of us see it and get a chuckle about it.

He has commented on a pair of boots I wear from time to time, lets me know that they look like women's, (they are!) I just ask him why does it bother him so much what I wear? He just mumbles to himself and goes back to work.

[Jenny Gurl]

And aren't you glad you were not born with that kind of social disability? I believe many things we are, are built into our brains before we are born. I overlook a lot of things when I can, because I really don't think they can help being the abrasive person any more than we can help being born transgender. I am sure their social life suffers, their occupation many times is not a really good one because they can't function in a social situation. If I had my choice, I would take being half female in my brain rather than being a complete asshole all the time. You did well not reacting, it is the reward to many of these type people. If they say something loud enough that you hear it, they are trying to solicit a reaction. If they can embarrass you, they feel superior in their undeveloped mind. Be glad you are happy with life, you have friends, you can dress to express yourself in public, something many here cannot even do. "You've Come A Long Way Baby".

[suzanne]

One comment from this kind of guy is a case of toxic masculinity, and he's a douchebag. More than that and it's a case of "Methinks ye doth protest too much." and he's in the closet, cowering from his girlfriend's opinion.