Days I Truly Regret Coming Out

[IleneD]

Sisters,
I've not been around The Forum for a while. Sorry my reappearance is also a Venting. I have to "talk".
My TG Life has (had?) been soaring. I've grown so much over the summer and fall. Been in therapy (going good). Been attending support group. Good. I also got involved with a non-profit to support trans rights. I was getting out as Ilene 2 sometimes 3 times a week because of the fund raising I was doing to support our Trans Fashion Show charity event.

All has crashed. Big crash.
Had a major fight with the SO a couple nights ago. She began a "discussion" about trans bathrooms. I think something came up on the news that sparked her. Her premise eventually evolved into the traditional position of "boys belong in boys restrooms; girls in girls". Then it went to "You're NOT a woman, TOM!" (emphasis on my guy name).
She also reminded me, in the heat of the moment, that my kids (adults) couldn't relate to me. I've come out to both of them so it isn't news. The SO told me my daughter can barely stand to talk to me. I had been "dis-invited" from another family event in Sept because some of the family thought I was just too weird [even in guy form], and didn't want to be around me. Told me things that were stated behind my back by other family. In short, she was telling me how much this TG-Thing was alienated everyone.

Things got heated. I took it as a personal attack on my being. It got ugly to the point where she picked up the phone to call the police. Instead she "kicked me out". Literally threw a handful of my belongings out the door. So I drove off.
This was also the night of the Trans Day of Remembrance (TDOR), so I drove to a TDOR event to console my spirit and be with some queer people. I needed a place to weep and sulk.
The whole specter of my marriage breaking up before me snowballed in my mind. Lost. Confused. What had I done? What was going to become of me. Where would I go?

A couple hours later I returned home. Walked in and packed a suitcase in front of her, and I was going to LEAVE. I still don't know what my intention was; either split for good and start a new life ASAP, or to get attention. The wife physically tried to block me from leaving. (Sure changed her tune of concern quickly.); and I ended up taking a face plant down a flight of stair with my valise. I'm OK.

It was a non-stop sob-fest for me, nearly 24 hrs. I'm exhausted from it, and don't think I have a tear left in my body.
We've kind of established a peace, but I'm clearly devastated.

I reached out to my brother by phone. I came out to him last year and he was quite accepting at that time. His consolation to me was " You and (wife) have always been together. She's your life. Why don't you just go back to being the Man that everyone knew you as?"

I don't even know where to begin to answer that.
Sorry to dump on everyone. I know its a day for thanks, and I enjoy that. I will be surrounded by my blessings today. But I needed to "cry out" a bit.
This sucks. Feels like my life is over. It's just OVER. There's days I wish this cup would pass from my lips; that I'd just kept this all bottled up and hidden; and kept pretending. It seemed so much easier then on everyone but me. But there was peace and no concern of others over My Being. It shouldn't have to be this way for the sake of coming out and being Myself.

Peace. Love. Hugs.

298412

Photo of my last visit to the therapist. Hope it's not the last one of me en femme.

[docrobbysherry]

Ilene/Tom, u r not thinking this thru properly. Nor should u try now! On one of the most revered, traditional, family holidays!
U should call your counselor and leave a message that you're in a new crises and need help! Unfortunately, u will probably have to wait for Monday to receive a reply.
Until then, I know all sorts of terrible things r running thru your mind. But, u must reject them. Things r NEVER as bad as u first think!:straightface:
If u have an opportunity to have a quiet, relaxed, private discussion with your wife, u should. Start by telling her how u miserable and hopeless u feel. Then, just let her talk. I think finding out how she feels and what she wants will make u feel better!:thumbsup:

Your brother doesn't understand nor should he. Somewhere he got the idea being trans is a choice. Since u told him, maybe u can commit to having a question and answer discussion? Where u try to explain how u feel!

If u have a family gathering today, I hope u pretended to be ill and skip it? Some family members can be difficult even in the best of times!:brolleyes:

[Jean 103]

I truly feel your pain.

This is something you need to decide. How do wish to live the rest of your life? Take as much time as you need, this is your life, nobody else’s.

This is not an easy path and I for one would not fault you for turning back.

For me turning back is not an option.

[kimdl93]

I’m not the person who should be offering relationship advice.

that being said,(in other words disregard) a couple of things. 1. If emotions of the moment go out of control...stop, retreat and let the situation calm. 2. Your wife tried to keep you near her...that is a positive. 3. Going back to what you were is not an option. The bell has been rung. 4. Only you and your wife can decide on what works from this day forward

[Micki_Finn]

I’m so sorry that this happened, but it doesn’t sound like things were healthy in the first place. I know from personal experience that divorces suck and a lot of times it can seem like it’s just easier to suffer in the unhappy marriage but that’s a decision you ultimately will have to make for yourself. You deserve to surround yourself with people who will offer love and support, not judgement. Sometimes the family we’re born with isn’t our REAL family. Wishing you strength and joy going forward.

[Alice Torn]

Ilene, This Thanksgiving has been a living hell for me, too, when i drove 120 miles to be with my sociopathic older brother, and my toxic sister. It was walking on eggshells, and nothing i say is ever respected by my cruel nazi like brother, who was in prison, and whose twin is stil in for 20 more years. i got up in the wee hours, and drove 120 miles back home, and left notes telling i am finished with them, cutting ties yet again. I need to respect my life, and being. i understand the hell you are going through somewhat. I only got two hours sleep, before i got up and escaped. I am emotionally, mentally, and physically exhausted, like you, today. i have no other family, but them, too. So, i am alone in the world, with three cats. I cannot do human relationships. Felt like ending my miserable life today, again, too. I know how hard it is to have this strong "lady" side within, and nowhere but this site, to let her out on. i wish i had not been born with this, but i had no choice. i choose to starve myself of Alice often, but the urge never goes away for long, and no one i know would understand and accept this. i live in a small town now. I hope your wife will try to be educated on what we deal with, and at least try to be more tolerant, and educated, and graceful with you. Words really do hurt . Please feel free to PM me.

- - - Updated - - -

Micki, So true. Family for me has been a lifetime living hell . friends and pets are far better healthy.

[Danielle_cder]

Ilene,

My god.

I’m so sorry. I’ve followed you for a while and this, is not an easy read for me. I’ve always admired you kinda had a feel as if we are close probably something about both being in Colorado and trans. Again I’m sorry. Gosh it’s ment to be thanks giving. I know typing words into some forum is not really connecting or going to make what happend unhappen.

I too have so many things that seem unfair, problematic, insurmountable, never going to work like everything is stacked against me.... alas I hear my mother, “hang in there”. I hate those words they always always always seem so flimsy but, they are so powerful.

I’m still here, the moon is going to rise regardless and set, just like the sun. Another day will pass, take a deep breath YOU will be ok.

-D

[Scheryl_O]

Dont give up hope. You are who you are and no one can change that. Sometimes family isn’t there for you, and I know mine surely has never been, its okay for a person to part ways with those toxic relationships. I have and am much happier now. My wife does get me but unless you have walked the walk you truly won’t understand. I’m also-in counseling and at this time you need to have that support to help you. Your wife sees what other people see as bad or questionable where as you are being true to yourself. Your brother is wrong in his advice to you however sometimes you need to compromise but that would be a two way street. I feel for you as all of use do. Please continue to use use as a sounding board as we are with you.

[char GG]

Hi Ilene,
I’m probably not the best person to comment here but I feel so bad for you. I’m sorry things came to a head near a “family” holiday. The holidays seem to bring out a lot of emotion that is hidden the rest of the year.

It sounds to me like your SO may have been internalizing a lot of pain related to your dressing. I’m not sure if the pain came out in the course of the blow up or if she shared any of this with you before. What I mean is, when the air has cleared, it may be time to both open up without emotion (if possible). I don’t want to make assumptions but were you going “full steam ahead” with or without her knowledge?

Without trying to sound too simplistic, my thought would be to try to get your priorities in place and work from there. What is your #1 priority? What is her #1 priority?

I hope you can work this out to a happy outcome for both of you.

[Teresa]

ILene,
I've PMd you to pass on my sincere wishes , maybe at the moment you do need a little of the old Tom to find his strength , also you need to believe in Ilene , you know she isn't going away despite what is thrown at you verbally or physically . You're not playing some game it's for real you didn't need counselling to really tell you that . Like me counselling was possibly more to do with convincing other people how you truly feel inside .

We all know that picture of Ilene won't be the last , if Ilene ceases to exist now so does Tom . I had to accept that fact myself .

Sherry,
Somehow I feel Ilene has tipped the scales , once a wife/partner starts on this road she won't do a U turn , she wants Tom back now and nothing is going to change her mind , for her the game has gone on long enough she want's Ilene out the door and the old Tom back. She hasn't grasped Tom has changed , Ilene has emerged and she's not going away . It all sounds so familiar she wants the control back just like my wife does.

[GracieRose]

Ilene,
I'm so sorry to read this. I've been following your posts, rooting for you. But you write little about how this is affecting your relationship with your wife. Thinking about my relationship with my wife, I had a nagging feeling that she was not all right with how things were progressing. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.
You will get through it. I've concluded that those of us born with this are screwed. Living with ourselves in our binary society required compromise. No matter what path you choose, it will require compromise by both you and your wife. I have no idea what is the best compromise for you two. You and your wife will have to figure that out, together. I believe that you both care about each other, and that makes it all the more difficult. I see many versions of that same story in the posts on this site, and I think often and hard about where my journey is taking me.
You will get through it.
It may sound trite, but on Thanksgiving day, please take some time to think about the blessings that you have rather than concentrating on the difficulties. It is a whole lot healthier for you (and we all worry about our sisters on this site). And I suspect that it will better prepare you for working through the difficulties.
-Peace
-Gracie

[Aunt Kelly]

Oh, Ilene. I am so sorry to hear of this. Being whipsawed emotionally like that is miserable, but more importantly, it is disorienting. One doesn't know how to feel, much less how to react. That there is at least a temporary ceasefire is certainly not a bad sign, but it is hard to know what will come next, no?
My guess is that she has not felt safe enough to share her concerns, or just chose not to for reasons of her own. Clearly, positive progress from this point is going to need more communication. Professional help to facilitate that will help. The issues you two are dealing with are not new or unique. The help of someone who knows effective ways of dealing with them can go a long way. No guarantees, of course, but why not tip the odds all you can?

You will be in my prayers, dear.

Hugs,

Kelly

[Helen_Highwater]

Ilene,

In this sort of situation someone needs to hold out an olive branch. The fact that your SO tried to stop you leaving screams that she realises she went too far, things got out of hand.

Go back, be conciliatory, that doesn't mean you have to rollover but until someone makes the first move to seek a resolution things won't get better.

Talk, stay calm, and be prepared for a bit of give and take. It may be there are issues that don't have a solution you can both sign up to but until you try you won't know.

[Tracii G]

It shows proof that coming out to family isn't always the right thing to do.
They may say they are OK with it to your face but talk bad about you to others in the family.
Thats why I keep my issues to myself and don't feel I have to come out to them.
I know many here are on the coming out train and while for them it might work but as you have seen its a crap shoot at best.
Good luck and I think Helen has some great points.

[Beverley Sims]

Ilene this ispart of the hard times we all experience sometimes in out lives, I hope the downer does not last.

I do feel for you.

[stephenie3756]

Rather than offer any words of advice to you, I am just going to give you a hug and let you know I hear you.

[Teri Ray]

Life simply gets complicated at times. Sorry to hear that you both are suffering through a tough situation. I am betting that you both will work through this and come through both being better. Best wishes to you both.

[phili]

HI Ilene,
It feels terrible to have your interpersonal rug pulled out from under us like that- after all- FAMILY is where we are supposed to go when there is no other place to go! Alice T had a similar terrible time with family, and it is awful.

But it [life- YOU-] are not over. You gave your best and ran over a cliff you didn't see. You are in pain and wondering how to find a place to stand and grow. Your life is ongoing and secure because [from your sig block]
"There resides within me a Woman, and she is powerful.
She has been my Grace and Bearing on the stormiest seas.
I could no more deny Her than I would my own soul."

A lot of us are in the same boat- discovering that once the genie is out of the bottle there is no going back, but a lot of people are doing their best to not accept that. IMHO first aid treatment is to stop needing them to accept it, and to focus instead on finding personal clarity. Basically nonacceptance or threatening is a negotiation stance by others to get us to back down.

Negotiation only ends when there is agreement or parties give up. So I take some comforting the fact that I am not giving up.

[Stephanie47]

I have to agree with TraciiG (#14) on the issue of revealing oneself to others, especially family, friends and coworkers. I read Ilene's post and some prior postings. I can understand how upset a wife can be when there is a reveal to the world. I've said it many times when the reveal occurs to a wife, it now becomes a shared secret. Maybe, if it just an issue of a cross dresser, a plain vanilla cross dresser, an understanding or compromise or boundaries can be established. If it more than a man's desire to wear women's clothing on occasion, then it really becomes a lot more. In Ilene's situation her wife has had a normalcy of four decades of marriage. I'd say the apple cart has really been upset for both spouses. The question that arises is whether the relationship between husband and wife can be salvaged, and, further should it be. There are no winners in these situations.

I have not read through all of Ilene's threads. If there is no joint marital counseling going on right now, there should be.

[Lux]

My heart breaks reading your post. Please remember that this time of year (the holidays) are an extremely stressful time.

Take a moment and just take a slow deep breath.

If you have been with your wife a long time, things should get better once you’ve both vented. If they haven’t, as I see it it, you should either 1) get into a couples therapist asap 2) take a small vacation away to clear your mind and let her feel what life is like with you away or 3) maybe make a pact to keep to yourselves and write each other a letter stating how you each feel and how you think the other person feels. It can be very cathartic to pen your thoughts.

Please hang in there, you are loved

[IleneD]

Steph,
Thank you. Your reasoned answer nails it.
One of the first things my gender therapist told me (reminded me), was that my wife was losing her husband. In her mind, he has and is losing her husband. Yes, I'm still right here. Pretty much the same body, same person. But she sees it as a loss of husband rather than understanding we can (still) be partners.
Then there's also the shock of the entire transformation. You may not be familiar with my own story, but I was a career Naval Officer; fighter pilot. Even my brother thought of me as a "man's man" all the way. The "fall" from macho pilot to wanna-be woman is long and hard. And yes.... I "get" that too.

When we come out, so often we hope and pray we have receptive and understanding people who love us. The reaction of others to anything queer is almost primal for some. Yet we hope for the best.

I think this can be salvaged yet. I'm not ready to give up. My wife so far has resisted professional counseling (together) and has refused to meet or speak with my gender therapist. Clearly, as you say, we will need it.
As for my own transgender realization and plans for transition? Don't know now. How far can I go with this and not horrify my wife? How much "more transition" will I need to be comfortably Me? As many CD/TG have stated, even in the face of devastating personal loss, There's no going back. No putting it back in the closet. No more denial, shame or guilt.

I own this. I own most of it for certain. My coming out changed everything. As she stated during the first year we both had to live with "it", "This has ruined my life!!!! This changes our relationship forever." To her credit she has "tried" over the last 3 yrs. She' read and studied the subject. (not always friendly literature or articles either). She hadn't kicked my out or thrown out my clothes, etc. Times she even helped me get dressed and prepared for counseling or support group. I thought things were going along well until now.

Thanks again, Steph. Sound advice.

[KymberlyOct]

Ilene, It broke my heart reading your post. We don't know each other but I care and so do others. I am so very sorry for the pain you are going through. Truly.

We can all give you advice. That's easy. We are not living your life and dealing with your feelings. You can read our advice and follow it or not. Many times in my life people gave me advice, I did not follow it and ultimately wished that I had, but my emotions got in the way.

While I deeply acknowledge your emotional turmoil I am going to give you logical advice anyway. It may help sort out your emotions.
I am sure your wife loves you since you have been together for so many years but when a person truly loves someone they want them to be happy. That is the thing that is the most important to them, for the person they love to be happy.

However love is a two way street, if we are not shown an unselfish love is it healthy for us to give that love in return? If your wife wants to work through this and accept you for who you are then great. If she truly believes those things she said and it was not just said in anger I don't see a good resolution for you. Sure you can bury your feelings and stay in the relationship the way she wants it but you will be unhappy and will ultimately make her unhappy.

I am NOT telling you to split up. What I am suggesting is that the two of you need to determine if you can be happy together. Both of you living your truth, without lies, manipulation or hiding. One thing I know, feelings of gender dysphoria can be buried or hidden or denied but they never go away. It's who you are.

Best wishes for your happiness.

[IleneD]

Helen,
Spot on and I've swallowed a bit of pride over the last day or so. She got a foot massage in bed last night when we finally were calmed down enough to sleep together again.

More counseling required, for certain. I hope she will go.
Thank you so much. This is the reason I love and value this board and my sisters here for this very reason. It's not because I can run to your comforting arms. I enjoy the compassion, I do. It's because I hear voices of reason and love here. I hear voices of desperation and grief. I hear all the shared stories and learn. For you Helen, and all who rode to my rescue this day..... God bless you with all my heart. If you think what you share is but internet pablum, you are wrong. You make a difference.

[Becky Blue]

So sad to hear your story Ilene, truly heartbreaking, just know that you are amongst friends here and that we all care about you and hope that things get sorted out in a positive way.. hugs!!

[DaisyLawrence]

Hi Ilene.

Devastating reading your OP.

I won't give any advise because I'm pretty sure I'm not qualified to do so but this from Helen seems to sum up rational thinking on the subject:


Talk, stay calm, and be prepared for a bit of give and take. It may be there are issues that don't have a solution you can both sign up to but until you try you won't know.

Good luck.

[Di]

I am so sorry.
All I can say is I really really really hope she will go to counseling with you.
I think she loves you and wants you to be happy and tried but by your brothers remark and her saying you are not a woman they do not really understand it’s not a choice and the counseling will help you both get on the same page.i am hoping the clearing of the air and her truth came out you both can build from this.

[Tamsin Secret]

Ilene,

I'm sorry to hear of your hurt at this time. I think many of us can relate to the devastating situation your in right now. Your not alone in your struggles.

Problem is it doesn't feel that way does it when your nearest and dearest, for their own reasons, cannot support us in what were living through.

I wish you the best, your post has resonated with me and I share your anguish.

I'm sorry I can't offer any advice. I just wanted to say your not alone.

[Rachelish]

Hi Ilene

I've just been catching up on this and I'm not sure I can add anything that hasn't already been said, except to add my best wishes. Whatever our own circumstances we can all relate to the situation you find yourself in. It does sound as if things are improving. I hope that continues and you find a positive way forward for you both.

Rachel

[GretchenM]

I am so sorry that this has happened to you. I don't know the details and that is where the rubber hits the road in finding a solution. But after 50 years of marriage, less a few months, I can say that my wife and I have always found a way to compromise. Finding that middle ground requires a lot of good, but heart wrenching communication. A moderator in the form of a marriage counselor is a good option. Forget about her getting some advice from a gender specialist because she is not likely to swim in that pond, especially at this point. It really isn't a matter of her understanding your position; it is a matter of understanding each other's position and gender is not an issue there, especially for her. Gender is not the total person; it is only a piece of the whole. Important, but still just a piece.

I certainly would like to do more with my gender, but the love for my wife and the love she has for me far outweighs the importance of the gender issues. I almost always play the middle ground of my gender range and pretty much ignore each end of that range. Is it ideal for me? Not at all. But it is better for the larger world.

That said, we are all different and some of us are so gender reversed that middle ground doesn't really work and creates a lot of dysphoria. The truth is, breakups over this issue are common, but some flexibility on both sides can help. To me it was all a matter of adaptation. Finding a combination that fell far short of what I want but is satisfactory to others was a solution to peace. I have never told many family members that I am trans; I don't need to. They know. But any pressure on them to accept me as a woman is never imposed. Of course, that is me and I am not you. But I believe there is always a middle ground - it is just a question of whether you want to live in Middleville, USA and whether you can be at least partially satisfied with that. I sacrifice a lot of myself for others and for the peace, but they also sacrifice something to accept that I am a bit of a different person.

I never present fully as a woman in front of anyone in my family. They know I do sometimes or at least suspect it. To me, that is crossing the line. So, I make do with a bit of this and a bit of that; enough to let others know that the she in me is alive and well but at the same time I make recognition that when they look at me they see a man. I give them that, but my strong feminine inner identity concentrates on who she is and not how she looks. To her bits and pieces of her expression are fine. In the past they weren't but she has learned that bits and pieces are what are acceptable and she has adapted to that provided there is time to be herself in a more private setting where it is just her and her masculine companion identity who has gone from hating her to appreciating and loving what she brings to the total person. I also try hard to engage in the feminine role but in a masculine way - it is appreciated. In the day to day chores I try hard to be my wife's equal. She appreciates it. But again. That's me and nobody else. The point is I am flexible and adaptive without imposing in an attempt to have my ideal at the expense of others.

Just some thoughts. My heart goes out to you. Open your heart and mind to the wider picture and I am sure you will find a solution, even though that solution may ultimately bring an end to a long and fruitful marriage. I am Gretchen in behavior and not so much in appearance. Took a while to catch on to that. The point is, long lived marriages have an underlying strength and bond that can create understanding through compromise and giving a little on both sides without forcing anybody to do or accept something they really don't want to do or accept.

[Alice Torn]

Gretchen, Thanks for your post. Very well said. Though not in a relationship, I sure can relate with all you said about compromise, and balance.

[Charlotte7]

Ilene, this is so sad. I wish you both and hopefully a together both, all the best in the future.

[Alisonforme]

Hi Ilene
I’m very sorry to hear that things have gotten so volatile in your family life. The reality is that people don’t understand us. We as CD/TG are categorized with pedophiles in the world of psychological pigeon-holing. I too have been away from posting for a very long time because I’m struggling with being lumped in with monsters and expressing my femme side while trying to avoid the personal hardship you and so many others have expressed here. So I’m in the closet with only my wife, oldest daughter, and brother knowing and only my daughter having seen Alison. Even many open-minded people are open-minded in theory...seeing reality is very different. The differences between “talking it” and “walking it” can be stark.

I feel for you sister. There are no easy answers and it is unfair of us to expect our SO’s to accept our awakenings. Gender norms are “primal” (to use your word) and although people change and grow over time, this is a curveball for anyone not walking in our heels.

I don’t know if you intend to live as woman, or just want to continue to explore your fabulous self (I love your style BTW...it suits you well!). Hoping the best for you.

[Macey]

Ilene, I’ve been following this thread and trying to find whatever words I can to respond in some sort of meaningful way. In this situation I find myself utterly lacking. Although I am well into my forties and understand marriage, relationships, family, and all of that, it would be reckless for me to think that I could offer anything specific to you, your life experiences, or your situation no matter how much my heart is aching for you right now. But I will do my best to offer something in the hope that my words might mesh with the universal outpouring of sympathy from the wonderful people on this thread and offer an additional layer and dimension of comfort as possible.

My belief is this, and I don’t expect anyone else to agree or hold the same beliefs. I believe each of us, every person, is born with a basic human dignity. It is always with you. It doesn’t matter what clothes you wear, what you do for a living, how you identify yourself to yourself or to the world around you, it is there and no one can ever take it from you, though sometimes people will try.

When we become upset, angry, say or do potentially hurtful things, it is often because we have forgotten the dignity which we possess, but that’s okay! We all get out of balance within ourselves sometimes and forget. But the more we remember that we always possess this dignity, the easier it is to recover it when we forget. What’s more, the more we remember our own dignity, the easier it is to remember the basic human dignity possessed by the people around us, even in moments where they may have forgotten and have said or done things that are hurtful.

This can be a difficult thing to remember when we have forgotten basic human dignity within the long term life relationships of spouses, family, decades-long friendships, etc. After all, these are people that we have long histories with and know all of their demons as well as they know ours. Never the less, the dignity exists there too and can be remembered and recovered with a great deal of patience. The first key, I figure, is to remember your own, then it is easier to remember it in another even when they have yet to recover it.

Beings of light, we are, and the path to these things includes a great deal of love and patience.

My heart continues to ache for you and you are in my thoughts.

[Abbey11]

Hi Ilene, really sorry to hear of your situation, not nice and I had noticed your absence from the forum. I have no words of wisdom to add to what has already been said
Look after yourself, things will calm down and with clearer heads you’ll be able to discuss and resolve things 1 way or another.

Thinking of you
:hugs:

[CarlaWestin]

I reached out to my brother by phone. I came out to him last year and he was quite accepting at that time. His consolation to me was " You and (wife) have always been together. She's your life. Why don't you just go back to being the Man that everyone knew you as?"

There's a lot to this, actually. First of all, it's the advice of someone close who cares about you. I too was intoxicated with disclosure because of the immediate praise and feeling of acceptance.
But, I'm truly aware that Carla would not be beneficial to the family dynamic. Charles is. And I still enjoy both identities without commingling. I wish you well.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I am encouraged that even through everything you were able to navigate some pretty choppy waters. The hardest part for those of us not born in the last 20 years is that most of our lives have been spent in the closet, without the benefit of support family, friends, support groups, forums, therapists or counselors. You are definitely a role model

[Teresa]

Carla,
Referring to that statement all I can say is , " If only it was as simple as that !"

Ilene is in counselling to deal with her GD issues , to some that statment would be like putting them back in a male straight jacket , I personally could never go back , it reaches a point where they either on board or not . They want you to live the life of their choosing not yours , given the chance Teresa could have been just as beneficial as the guy was .

[JenniferR771]

Ilene, i think you need to negotiate and compromise. Let her throw away a few of your clothes. True, this will be difficult for you. Ugh! But it saves face on her part. Then dress--in your best suit and tie. (So you look sexy.) Then take her out to the best restaurant to eat. Maybe a show or movie. Denver has venues and things to do, right? ?

[Rogina B]

I see what took place as a "reality check" for you. I feel that you were getting "ahead of yourself" and deserved the slapdown. How you decide to go on from here is a choice that needs to include the input of your wife..After all,she waited for your safe return home for so many years,she deserves to be able to be heard. You can not expect others to understand..GD is a personal issue. I can tell you and some others here that until your family declares your "male self" DEAD.. they aren't ready to move on to a new life. Perhaps,rather than a funeral for Tom,a celebration party for Ilene would be a realistic goal to try for. Having freedom,with spousal support may keep your "home fires burning".

[Kas]

What did you do to her to make her want to call the police? Must have been pretty bad.

[Lana Mae]

OMG, Ilene! I am so sorry this happened! Communication is very important now! Especially how each feels! As others have said, might want a marriage counselor involved! You are both in my thoughts and prayers! Special hugs, Lana Mae

[LeslieSD]

Ilene,

It is sad to have that happen on Thanksgiving. But it is good to have this all came out. You are a "men's men" and courageous. It is very brave of you to come out to all your family and friends. It is also very courageous of your wife to be part of this and accepted it to this day. I am sure she had a lot of uncertainty and was under a lot of pressure. What happened yesterday may be a burst out from that pressure.

Maybe it is a good time to sit down and have a good talk. Maybe assure her that you are still the same person, still care about her the same way as before. Maybe two of you can find a way to deal with the pressure from family members. Maybe she needs to find courage to see a psychiatrist. It may not guarantee to work. But at least you have sincerely tried to make it work. If at the end there is no middle ground that can be found, you knew you have exhausted all the options. I suspect that she has come a long way, and won't just give up either.

Leslie

[Rhonda Jean]

I hate it. You're certainly not alone. However this works out, you'll likely find that you can get along perfectly well without some things that you think you can't. This might be your wife, your friends, or your most beautiful clothes.

[Janine cd]

Ilene,
I'm a 79 year old crossdresser and have similar rejection issues by my family. Please keep up hope. There is more to life and something wonderful may happen to ease your pain.

[Judy-Somthing]

Love the photo, you look great!
I can relate, I've been beaten down pretty good from my SO and today, I felt our relationship is kind of fake built on dissection and lying and also her unaccepting of who I am.
I stopped dressing for about a year and a half But I started dressing again, I keep telling myself that I'm going to stop soon since It's getting so hard to look fem, But I find I'm just putting more effort into the makeup.

Good luck, Miss Judy

[CarlaWestin]

Carla,
Referring to that statement all I can say is , " If only it was as simple as that !"
Yes,I know. I can only reflect the happy medium that I've attained and wish that happiness upon someone in need.

[IleneD]

What did you do to her to make her want to call the police? Must have been pretty bad.

I admit I was thoughtless in the heated moment.
One thing that happened early in the heat was I asked her "What do you want me to do? Punch you in the face?" She was asking what I was going to do about her pinging on me. I have NEVER made a violent gesture towards her. Never once stuck her, raised a hand against her or hurt her physically in any way. I am totally anti-women's violence. There's no excuse for it ever. AND.... she knows this at heart and for real.

The primary thing I did was be 6'3"/ 215 lbs.; angry and clenching my fists and smoking mad. I was standing on the other side of the kitchen island counter when it happened. But she stated that she didn't feel safe and was calling the cops. She didn't, and I departed (with my clothes being tossed out behind me).

- - - Updated - - -


I see what took place as a "reality check" for you. I feel that you were getting "ahead of yourself" and deserved the slapdown.

An interesting take. I assume you are referring to my entire transition life prior to this explosion, and perhaps you were following it.
I'm interested (and not upset by any means of your interpretation)..... how exactly do you feel I was getting way out front of myself.
Appreciate your reasoned response. I might learn something.

- - - Updated - - -


When we become upset, angry, say or do potentially hurtful things, it is often because we have forgotten the dignity which we possess, but that’s okay! We all get out of balance within ourselves sometimes and forget.

Macey.
Thanks for the extended response.
Oh you betcha, I totally lost my composure. It was a lot like a drowning experience where I went from "I'm OK. I'm OK".....Holy Shit, I'm dying!" It happens and flashes that quickly. I forgot my own dignity and it really bothers me. In my past and professional life, I've been in some literal Life & Death drag out meetings with Officers or other people, and NEVER lost my cool.
But this.... wow. You know a Loved One can push all the right and wrong buttons.
And I her's too......

- - - Updated - - -


Open your heart and mind to the wider picture and I am sure you will find a solution, .......

Gretchen,
You are a true friend and one of the first TG's I ever met in person face to face (from this forum). You know I love and respect you.
Thanks for the reminder. I'm finding that in these days and hours since, and with time to calm down and think, that I am taking a conciliatory approach, calmly talking and seeking a few answers. Not digging deeply. We've talked. I gave her a foot rub. We've eaten a few meals together. The peace is holding.
When I read your response and the line about opening up I was reminded of an old story I learned in the time before we were married. It was given to me as advice on how to deal with (future) kids. I think it applies to all. It went like this:

" An old Jew visited his rabbi one day. His heart was heavy. "Rabbi, rabbi.... I am beside myself with frustration and grief. My son.... he goes about all slovenly. His hair is long and his clothes are dirty. He has little respect for his family and traditions. Rabbi... what am I to do? The Rabbi turned to the man and said "Love him more."

So, I shall try that. We've been together for 41 yrs; best friends, faced (literal) life and death situations with her; our kids. I want to make this work, but I have told her I need to also VALUE myself. (She didn't even know what I meant by that.)
Thanks Gretchen. I need to meet you for lunch agains soon.

- - - Updated - - -


Ilene/Tom, u r not thinking this thru properly. Nor should u try now!

DOC !!,

God love you, girl. You were the first to write to my rescue.
I can't believe the outpouring of support and advice (sometimes all over the map but WTF). My Sisters have been amazing, as you are. THANK YOU, and thank you personally, Sherrie.
Good words. Loved the appeal to "think this through properly....". Lord knows I needed THAT.

I ended up going to the Family Feast yesterday (at my son's in-laws). Yeh... it was a bit awkward..... but only because my son was pissed that I failed to join him on a perfectly good ski day (the day that followed my fight, I planned to go skiing with Number One Son). He didn't take kindly to the sudden cancelation, and I had some 'splaining' to do.
Of course I was on the verge of breaking down into an all-out bawl at the drop of a turkey leg. I generally kept quiet and to myself as to not stir sad feelings.
THANKS again, Doc. You are one of my forum Heroines (bet I never told you that).

[marshalynn]

IleneD, I will tell you a little about myself, I am 75 years old, I have always wanted to be a girl my hole life. My wife died 32 years ago, had a 8 year old son to raise by my self. For the next 25 years I keep my girl life to myself, so around 10 years ago I started coming out to the world. I live alone, my son and his family live about 1/4 miles away from me, so I see them every day usually. So I started very slow at first, let hair grow long, pierced my ears, shaved all hair, started to wear some neutral female clothes. This took several years to do, about 5 years ago, I came out to hole family one month, every thing went good I thought. Told my mother (89 at the time, will be 94 on Dec. 23) told both my brothers, told my son and all his family. Next thing I know I am the meanest and weirdest person for doing this to my family, my daughter in law had a fit, how could I do this to my grand children. My mother and brothers and every one else thinks I am crazy. So at 70 years of age I can not live the rest of my life the way I want to. I am very hurt and don't know how to handle this, so I pulled back into myself, I did not talk to any one for awhile, I went and vised every one as usual ever day, but stayed to myself. After a few months, I decided this is my life and I want to live it the way I am happy. They would ask me why I was so quite, said didn't have any thing to say, but I think they new why I was sad, over some time thing have worked out. It will take some time for them to under stand the world did not stop because of you. Now, I dress 99.9 % of the time as the woman I want to be. I hope this will give you some thing to think about. We always let them think they are wright and we are wrong. We only have one life, so at some time we need to start living it the way we want to or need to. Marshalynn

[Patience]

A lesson to us all.

Good for you for being honest and brave enough to share your dressing with your family, Ilene. The less my family knows, the better.

I’m sorry you had that litany of problems tossed at you tihat way. Instead of bottling things up, it might have been less destructive If the issues mentioned had been dealt with as they came up.

I hope you and your spouse get the help you need to get through this difficult time.

[Aunt Kelly]

" An old Jew visited his rabbi one day. His heart was heavy. "Rabbi, rabbi.... I am beside myself with frustration and grief. My son.... he goes about all slovenly. His hair is long and his clothes are dirty. He has little respect for his family and traditions. Rabbi... what am I to do? The Rabbi turned to the man and said "Love him more."

So, I shall try that...



If you can do nothing else, do this. Those of us in who find our self changing the nature of our relationship with our SO require one thing in abundance - emotional capital. The changes we want to make require a large draw against that capital. We need to have invested enough, and our partner has to have the capacity to hold (value) that investment. Without those, the relationship is bankrupt, if you will. Progress depends on there being enough in the bank to get your spouse to understand and accept what we already know is true. I'm not saying that there is or is not. No one can, not even your spouse, but if things are to have a chance at working out for the better, loving her more is a requirement. Mind you, I'm not suggesting that you become a door mat. Nor am I suggesting that you smother her with over the top affection. She'd likely, and not incorrectly, see that as self serving and perhaps insincere.
As I've said before, I don't have all the answers. My wife and I take this one day at a time. We know, in broad strokes, where we're headed, but the path is sure to be littered with stumbling blocks . The plan is support each other to get over those, and to inspire confidence that we will be there for each other, no matter what. I live each day with that in mind.

[Sarah Louise]

Hi Ilene, Sorry about the late reply to your thread. It must be really difficult for you both.

Reading about what happened, it seems to me that you have really upped the amount of 'Ilene time' recently. Your wife obviously dislikes it but puts up with it up to a point because she loves you and values your marriage. However, I suspect that for most wives in her situation there's only so much they can take before it all comes to a head. Certainly with my wife, while supportive, this only goes so far and I'm well aware that if I dress very frequently and don't spend enough time with her as the man in her life then this will come to a head too. As such, I manage the amount of girl time to avoid this.

Could you accept that you need to reduce the amount of 'Ilene time'? Maybe discuss this with your wife and acknowledge it's difficult for her and agree that while you need an outlet for your other side, you won't do it more than an amount of time that you agree? I would suggest that 2 or 3 times a week is too much for a wife that struggles with having a cross-dresser as a husband.

Now it may be that you take the view that it's your life and you should live it as per whatever makes your happy. But you're up against years of society's expectations of what is acceptable. It will be hard for her to change her views. A happy marriage is about give and take and you may need to decide how much you are prepared to risk it.

Good luck whatever you do. I'll be routing for you.

Sarah x

[kimdl93]

Just a follow up on Rogina’s observation. We do tend to follow each other here as we become familiar with individual story lines. Like Rogina, I watched quietly as yours unfolded. The things that struck me were the speed of your emergence and the enthusiastic, dare I say euphoric tone. While I was happy and somewhat envious of your confidence, I also felt a familiar sense of foreboding.

its so easy to be caught up in the new experience of freedom after a lifetime of hiding. But this blossoming comes with risks to relationships....something I know all too well. Like anyone, I’m likely to filter the experiences of others through the lens of my own.

My guess is that you embraced this new freedom with such vigor because that is how you have faced all of life’s challenges. A fighter pilot, for gosh sakes. Confidence and determination in the face of risks surely defines you. It’s no surprise, and surely no fault in these traits. But as you surely appreciate more than most of us, there is risk inherent in pushing the envelope.

[alwayshave]

Ilene, I'm very sorry this happened to you. I understand that my dressing may have consequences on relationships. I really have no advice not already mentioned. I hope that all works out for you.

[IleneD]

. The things that struck me were the speed of your emergence and the enthusiastic, dare I say euphoric tone.
its so easy to be caught up in the new experience of freedom after a lifetime of hiding.
...you embraced this new freedom with such vigor

Thanks, and thank you Rogina.
Correct you are that it's easy to get caught up. In the enthusiasm, and with the prospect that SOMEHOW this CD/TG thing might just work out.
I should have, could have, curbed my enthusiasm with a little common sense clarity, and remembered the first words of my therapist. "You need to understand. She is losing her husband._

From the beginning of Summer 2019, I had plenty of room to 'grow' into my budding trans self. I had literally 7 weeks home alone and to myself. I was Ilene nearly 24/7. In that period I started attending a support group and began with a gender therapist. I had great "excuses" to go out a couple times a week dressed. I think eventually that support group and my therapy became great ways to justify a Dress Up.
I also got involved with a non-profit org that is staging a Bridal Fashion Show for TG, [called WhXYte Wedding; look for www.whxytewedding.com ]. At first I was just a volunteer. Then, the Marketing chairperson. This event has grown to proportions I never expected. Brianna Titone, a trans woman recently elected to our state legislature is going to be one of our models, and the Governor will likely attend (from what we hear). This project has provided purpose and a reason to get out and BE transgender. I have been doing public business as Ilene. Yes.... the thrill, excitement and sense of real TG purpose swept me away.

The Original Long Term Plan [towards transition] was for me to go SLOWLY; very slow. I planned on going about as fast as the rate of hair growth. I'm letting my natural white hair grow out. But the floodgates have indeed opened, and I have found myself swept away with the current. My CD life has inadvertently expanded beyond that. I can see it NOW.

You and Rogina are right. The speed of change and increase in my own trans visibility has very likely startled her. I shall need to slow it down, perhaps. Most of all, I need ways and methods to talk and communicate with her about THIS subject without both of us feeling like we're being attacked and on the defensive; to not personalize it so much.

THANKS for the response. Like all of the great advice, I will read it over and over. Digest it. Learn.

[stephNE]

Hi Ilene, I was so sorry to read this. I hope things get better for you. I'm wising you the best. Steph.

[Alice Torn]

The Cd to TG and transition thing is a progression. The pink fog is the force. I know it can take over ones life very quickly. Is there a way to slow it down, or even cut way back? For one's dearest friend and wife? I believe it is possible, though painful. One thing about humans and animals. We are adaptable when push comes to shove. It is up to you . It is surely the hardest thing in your whole life, now, after the many difficult things in the military, and marriage you have been through. I am a vet, too, but did not do 1/100 of what you did for the country. None of us live forever. Life is shorter and shorter. I am a senior, too, have had a lifetime of hell from my family of origin, and if my siblings found out about Alice, they would make my life even more difficult. I can never tell them, but almost did once, to my sister. good thing i did not do it, but my have outed myself once, when my mascara, and lipstick was not washed off well. I hope you and your wife will be able to have deep conversation, love, and compromise. Life is too short. I almost ended my life 14 months ago, but barely pulled back from ending it. Very tough things are coming on our country, and the world. Megachanges, that will shock everyone. I would say, easy does it, back off some, hang in there with your marriage. Life is too short.

[Rogina B]

The primary thing I did was be 6'3"/ 215 lbs.; angry and clenching my fists and smoking mad. I was standing on the other side of the kitchen island counter when it happened. But she stated that she didn't feel safe and was calling the cops. She didn't, and I departed (with my clothes being tossed out behind me).

- - - Updated - - -



An interesting take. I assume you are referring to my entire transition life prior to this explosion, and perhaps you were following it.
I'm interested (and not upset by any means of your interpretation)..... how exactly do you feel I was getting way out front of myself.
Appreciate your reasoned response. I might learn something.

- - - Updated - - -



Macey.
Thanks for the extended response.
Oh you betcha, I totally lost my composure. It was a lot like a drowning experience where I went from "I'm OK. I'm OK".....Holy Shit, I'm dying!" It happens and flashes that quickly. I forgot my own dignity and it really bothers me. In my past and professional life, I've been in some literal Life & Death drag out meetings with Officers or other people, and NEVER lost my cool.
But this.... wow. You know a Loved One can push all the right and wrong


I'm finding that in these days and hours since, and with time to calm down and think, that I am taking a conciliatory approach, calmly talking and seeking a few answers. Not digging deeply. We've talked. I gave her a foot rub. We've eaten a few meals together.

So, I shall try that. We've been together for 41 yrs; best friends, faced (literal) life and death situations with her; our kids. I want to make this work, but I have told her I need to also VALUE myself. (She didn't even know what I meant by that.)


I ended up going to the Family Feast yesterday (at my son's in-laws). Yeh... it was a bit awkward..... but only because my son was pissed that I failed to join him on a perfectly good ski day (the day that followed my fight, I planned to go skiing with Number One Son).
It is partly from what you wrote that I formed my opinion that perhaps what you need is acceptance and in moving forward,creating a life that embraces acceptance of your two selves. I do not see them holding a funeral for Tom in your future so logically seek acceptance of your female self so you can freely move between them. My opinion,anyway.. Like Kim said,some of us follow other's "storylines" often hoping for success in getting going again after the "trainwreck".

[suzanne]

You're in a terrible and very distressing spot. But I really don't understand your wife, first telling you to get out then blocking your path to the door. What's in her head?

It reminds me of the times when my wife, by her own admission, would have preferred to see me dead than in a dress. I felt her hatred, but whenever I would go to the spare room to sleep, she wanted me back in the master bedroom with her. The story has a better ending, because she has learned to accept me somewhat. Hopefully, you situation has a hope of becoming a bit brighter as well.

[IleneD]

Alice,

Thanks for sharing.
Yes..... I read your other post(s) along in this thread. My heart goes out to you too, dear. How crushing to wish to be with the family you created, and have them reject you in any manner. While I love my kids dearly, there's a lot of times I feel they are ungrateful (to me AND my wife).
It was one thing for my wife to be angry based upon her own feelings, but when I learned how The Family (MY KIDS!??) were talking behind my back, and even asking me to not come to some family events..... it hurt deeply. I think that was the thing that threw me over the edge into the pit (despondent, depressed).

So Alice, you are walking in my shoes too. And PLEASE.... no more suicide gestures. Listen.... I believe many of us entertain the notion of "...if only I weren't here suffering". My solution was to just get out of HERE. My therapist said that was a very, very bad tactic and please don't use it. But the other option for getting out is not right either.

I tell you with all my heart, Alice. This forum and the wise friends I have here are like Living Gold. So precious. The experiences, perspectives and understanding compassion of my Sisters literally rode to my rescue. Don't ever downplay the value to coming to this seemingly "anonymous'' bulletin board. I know we don't "intimately" know each other or share great details of our lives or our time beside one another. But the girls here know and understand The Life. You know you will always have great advice and a digital hand to hold in times of distress.
Hugs. Be well. We are all recovering from something it seems. (PS: Do you live in Kansas City? Something about the Midwest tag made me think about it; being an old KC person myself.)

[Kas]

"What do you want me to do? Punch you in the face?"

LOL yup that’ll do it. Some friendly advise; refrain from asking you SO if she wants to be punched in the face hahaha. I like your style though...

[Teresa]

Ilene,
As you know I chose to separate mostly through these issues .

To me it was a case of weighing up the pros and cons , to stay in a relationship means someone is going to have to suppress and compromise , the question is can you sustain that or is it a temporary fix . Our age is doubled edged , I have been married for 44 years , am I saying I don't cherish those years ? I also admit I have lived with a deep gut feeling almost a pain at times that something wasn't right , should we continue to make a sacrifice and continue to bury that until it's too late or should we be openly honest with ourselves and then with others ? It's hard to say who is fair in this situation , how much does your wife/partner still love you to help you through this , I never stopped loving my wife through all of my trials but she wasn't totally honest with me when it appeared she had stopped loving me well over twenty years ago . Sadly she killed any feelings for her in me , now I don't want any contact with her .

Rogina accuses you of taking off too quickly , I feel it's a harsh comment , the emergence of Ilene opened up a part of you that never existed before , you needed to discover what it was all about , what your needs were and scarily where would it lead you . Maybe in hindsight you should have gone to counselling sooner but we often don't see the harmful side of the issue . To your wife , children and friends you are still the same person they knew but another side is emerging , that really does take some accepting for a man admitting he has a female element . The mistake made is being treated as something totally wrong , you have been in control all your life why can't you control this , it really is a very powerful force we attempt to control and live with .

[IleneD]

Teresa,

You are the best, as usual.
Love the crystal clarity of your advice. I hear everything you are saying.
I am not quick to take your path, but I sure don't wish to spend the last 20 yrs of my life in constant turmoil and conflict.
Working it. I'm working the problem (as we say in dealing with in-flight emergencies).
Thanks.

[Alice Torn]

Ilene, I live in Wisconsin now. I never had a wife of kids. I have had lifelong trouble with my parents first, and also my siblings. I have few friends. My cats a re my closest buddies. I never have come out to my relatives, thankfully. I have felt suicidal at times, as most of us have at times, but always weathered the storms. People on this forum have helped encourage me several times when i was extremely deep in depression and was thinking of it. I have religious issues about my CDing too, and it is a real conflict. One of my vices is fantasizing about being Alice with a gentleman, but i would refrain from penetration sex, due to morals, even though my religion forbids wearing clothing of the opposite sex, too. Life is full of conflicts, and i guess it was meant to be so. But, we must learn to accept it,on its terms.

[Teresa]

Ilene ,
Some may think i get it wrong all I try and see both sides with some logic and reasoning .

I do see your situation as the little Durch boy with his finger stuck in the dyke trying to prevent the flood , I'm afraid I see it so similar to my situation , the dyke is breached and the little boy can't stop the flood !

[Rachael Leigh]

Oh my Ilene where to begin, as you may or may not know I went through a divorce this year and I was married 35 years
my wife was my best friend and like your SO she was really not fully supportive of me. It was a slow move over the years
for me, counseling and all kinds of let’s talk type conversations with the wife. Eventually it got to much for her and we ended our life together. I’ve come out to many as well in the last 18 months and it too has made a mess of my family.
Do I regret it? Yes sometimes I do I really wish I could go back in time and change and find other ways to express who I
am. But life has to go on my journey is ongoing and I’m just going about it one day at a time

My faith too has sustained me and I’m so happy I’ve got that. Feel free to PM me anytime and I will pray for you and
your wife.
Blessings Rachael

[Kitty Sue]

Sad. I hope you and your family are coming to grips with this as best you all can.