The ripple effect .

[Teresa]

It was after using this as a reply in an thread by Phili that I thought it needed some more thought .

I feel some put down SAs too much , suggesting they may not genuinely care because they are only after a sale and nothing more . After talking to many very few work on commission they rely on a basic salary . I have a great time with many and have some fun but we mustn't forget they are human too with their own lives to live some may even be TG themselves or perhaps a partner , close family member or a friend , I have been surprised how many are in this situation . It may explain partly why they are OK with us or on occasions very touchy .

My main point is they play a big and possibly major part in our acceptance . Many stores now fully train their staff in selling to the TG community which means they are more aware of us and maybe understand us more . The knock on effect is they spread that knowledge by chatting to other SAs and customers and obvioulsy provide feedback to management . The ripple effect if you like then extends back through the chain of suppliers and manufactuers . We are seeing larger sizes both in clothes and shoes , we are also seeing more ads featuring crossdressing , they may be beginning to realise the possible size of that market so they are not only supplying the goods but ensuring the staff are trained to deal with it. I guess it's impotant we keep buying off the High Street , we are helping oursleves in gaining recognition and acceptance .

Making a quick reference to the " Transvestite Vs Crossdressers " , thread , some of the old ideas and stigmas mentioned may be disappearing , I wonder eventually if the terms will be used at all !

No matter if we need to shop or want to shop , spare a thought for the SAs , some get small basic salaries , after thirty years of dealing with customers I possibly relate to them more so I treat them with respect and have a bit of fun with them , most now will be working extended hours up until Xmas . Just think could you listen to Xmas music for so many hours everyday without any form of ear protection , I know I couldn't !!

[Charlotte7]

Teresa, I like the sentiment in your thread. Of course we should treat everyone we come across properly, not just those who work in shops. However, I don't think that SA play a big or major part in our acceptance, that is down to us, each of us as individuals. We are ambassadors for ourselves and every other transgender person that comes their way. I also think that your notion that larger sizes are appearing to satisfy the transgender market is a tad misplaced too. For example, Dawn French and Helen Teague have their clothing label Sixteen47, so named because 47% of the (female) population are size 16 or larger. Bean counters in clothing retailers are more likely to stock larger sizes to cater for 47% of 50% of the population as a whole rather than whatever fraction of the TG population (1% in total) happens to be a larger size. You are quite right though when you say that a good way to gain acceptance is to get out there and just be normal and nice - that certainly aids our cause.

[docrobbysherry]

I haven't heard many bad mouth SA's here, Teresa. Except for the odd, offended, overly sensitive, post. Where someone was politely called, "Mr", or, "Sir"!:eek:

If u look like a man in a dress as most of us do, only experienced SA's know to address us as, "Maam". Altho, I rarely shop dressed, I could care less what service staff call me as long as they r polite and helpful.:battingeyelashes:

Am I the only one that has a mirror!?:Angry3:

[Christie ann]

I agree that the SA’s have a part in the overall acceptance of tg people. I really have had very few bad experiences while trying on clothes, especially in dress shops, but occasionally I have see other women not all that sure about me being there. I think by just having the SA work with me just as she does everyone else has made these other women relax a little bit. Now when dress shopping I can stand by the big mirror with other women’s and talk about our potential purchases. I think this is translating to these women having the experience of being with tg people and we are not the monsters some are trying to make us out to be.

[JenniferMBlack]

Teresa haveing worked retail for years, and making the basic salary I can say even so your job depends on the store makeing sales. Also bonuses depend on the store makeing or beating the sales goals. That being said yes there has been training and yes some of them do genuinely like helping us. Either way you are right in saying be normal and nice to them as it should be for everyone.

Docrobbysherry I am with you as long as your not being mean I dont care what you call me. Just dont call me late for dinner (as grandpa always said). Also it may not be intentional when someone says sir as i have called many females sir on accident or as you say they might not know what to say or how to address you. Also i had a mirror but it broke.

[Teresa]

Charlotte,
I feel it's more of a chicken and egg situation ! Going into a store expecting everyone to accept our situation may not have happened without the change in store policy , I may stand to be corrected on this but I believe Evans may have been the first to adopt this policy as one of the first High Street shops .

Sherry,
The comment has been made many times in the past when I've quoted the comments from SA's that it's all about getting the sale and nothing else , I didn't imply rudeness in that comment . OK I have had the odd cold shoulder when shopping in drab but that didn't last long when I've broken the ice .

Christie,
The looks have only been obvious when I shopped in male mode and usually from women . Now I get some looks from male shoppers when I make my way into the female changing area maybe for a different reason .

[Micki_Finn]

Teresa, you’re right in saying that it’s not always just about getting the sale. However, it’s also not us saying “we going to strike a blow for Trans rights!” It’s just the SA reciprocating the treatment they receive. If you’re nice to us, we’ll be nice to you because if we’re not, that means we have to go help someone who might not be so nice.

What I’m trying to say is that we are no more advocates for trans rights than anyone else that treats you like a human being.

[Asew]

SAs should be nice to everyone. If they are rude to us, they are probably rude to others too and hopefully won't last long. But it is great that companies are making it policy to make sure everyone is treated nice which is definitely great for us. I think us just being out there more and more has its own ripple effect more than how nice the SAs are. And I think our behaviour influences the ripple more than anything or anyone else. If we are nice and respectful it is more positive than just an SA being nice to us.

[Gillian Gigs]

I'm with docrobbysherry on this one, "I could care less what service staff call me as long as they are polite and helpful". I find that if you are honest and tell them it is for you, they have little to no qualms in giving you the help you need. If anything many of the SA's seem to get into the whole thing of helping you out. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and they seem to be flattered that there is this imitation in dressing like them, imho.

[Tracii G]

I agree Gillian and thats is how it has been for me while out shopping.
99% of the SAs I have encountered have had no problems helping me.
At first they will say what size is she and when you say its for you their eyes light up and the fun begins.
The 1% is the staff at VS that seem to hate TG people. Its been my experience anyway YMMV.

[Gillian Gigs]

Spot on Tracii G, "At first they will say what size is she and when you say it's for you their eyes light up and the fun begins". I couldn't have said it any better, in fact, I wish I had said it!

[Helen_Highwater]

Teresa,

"My main point is they play a big and possibly major part in our acceptance" I feel there's a an element to this that it would be easy to overlook namely that if SA's weren't kind and decent to us then for many beginning their journey into the outside world that would be enough to end their fledgling adventures. Being rejected at the till could put many off.

I try to look at it from the SA's point of view. Often working under artificial light all day, cut off from the world. Standing at a till, often with little or nothing to do if things are quiet. It could be soul destroying. I make it a rule as I approach an SA to smile. I want them to know here comes a friendly face. Someone to talk to and break the boredom. I'm convinced that's why so many are prepared to then engage. Someone to talk to at last.

It's a process of simple human interaction. Our opportunity to show we're approachable, normal, polite and hopefully interesting people. It also demonstrates we're not ashamed to be there. We own our own space, we're confident in being there. If we see nothing wrong in our being there then that has an effect.

We can only hope that if someone in their circle of friends bad mouths us they are more likely to say, "Well I served someone the other day and they were just lovely". "I see nothing wrong in it".

[Rachael Leigh]

Some good thoughts Teresa, I too have found when out shopping most are quite friendly especially in the makeup stores.
I think many in those places really enjoy wanting to help us girls look our best without making us look like we have to much
makeup on. As our friend Kandi says just get out there and enjoy

[Teresa]

Helen,
I can see you've picked up on my thoughts , in some respects SAs are our " Go-betweens " most company policies have given us that benefit . The fact they are paid to do so is irrelevant it's still working in our favour . If it's opened their minds it is a good thing because they will then open other people's minds . Also if they don't react badly to us the customers may pick up on that , I'm sure when they see me having some fun with them they feel more at ease .

It's about confidence and being comfortable, I feel SAs play a useful and important role .

[Beverley Sims]

Generally SA's are very good at their job.

Customers are a necessity but a pain..... sometimes.

Yep! Deck the halls with Rudolph the pink nosed rain dear. :-)

[t-girlxsophie]

The high street is in so much turmoil it's really as much about job security as doing a good job.And remember it goes both ways some customers can be horrendous pains in the ar*e.I'm not a SA but work nights in supermarket and can testify to that fact.SAs are doing their job to the best of their ability and they are mostly genuine and don't judge

I tell you 8 hours of every second record being a,sometimes awful rendition of a Christmas song would test the patience of a saint.If i hear Mariah Carey's Xmas dirges once more time (which WILL happen) I'll scream

Sophie

[GretchenM]

I agree that SAs are very important doorways for us to enter the more public world. And I find most are very supportive when it comes to making a sale, but I wonder what they are like in a more personal role. Often, if you look closely, you see a tell somewhere that says that personally they are not so accepting as they seem. No matter. Your relationship is a merchant-customer one and if that makes you feel more comfortable then go for it. Again and again. Never heard of an SA telling a customer they have seen many times before that you seem to come here too often and buy too much stuff. It is nice to experience some acceptance and support and you both derive a benefit from the transaction. Sadly, during a holiday season the SAs are very busy and you shouldn't think they are putting you off or rejecting you if they move on to another customer rather quickly. Their real job is to help as many as possible.

[Teresa]

Gretchen,
We often meet up in a shopping outlet village on late night opening on Thursdays , we have coffee and then check out the shops , the staff are all very accepting the girls especially in M&S outlet always greet us with a hug and inquire if some of us don't make it . On a personal not I have asked one of the SAs out for a drink or a meal , she hasn't turned me down, she has often helped me out in the changing room so obviously doesn't have a problem with me .

[Helen_Highwater]

Teresa,

Why not invite them all out for a Christmas drink possibly at your regular meeting. Get them to bring their partners if they are in a relationship. Seems like a good chance to show what normal folks you are.

[Teresa]

Helen,
It has happened but I missed that particular evening , they sometimes get together over a drink when they've finished work , now it's gone to 9.00 pm closure until Xmas so it may not happen till the New Year . The lady in question is widowed , I beleive to them we are as normal as any of their customers .

[CONSUELO]

Teresa raises an important point. I am always polite and courteous with sales assistants. I make a point of asking how their day is going and whether business is thriving. It is just small talk but it leads to a connection and we must always remember that we are ambassadors for our community. Being polite with SA's creates a good impression and if more of us do that then gradually they will develop a positive view of our community.

We are not "islands".

A long time ago I was in a heated discussion with a friend over the importance of saying "thank you" to people. The discussion centered on a bus driver who was always a bit surly. I told her that when I got on his bus and asked for a transfer, I made sure I thanked him for giving it to me. She protested that it was his job to give it to me and there was no need for a "thank you". I strongly disagreed and my argument really centered on phrases like "Thank you" and "Please" being important ways to lubricate public relationships. Indeed he was a bit surly but imagine if everyone of his customers smiled and said thank you to him. Perhaps he would finally drop his surly attitude as he realized that all of the people he interacted with actually acknowledged him as a person and not just an automaton doing his job.

Yes, it is the job of an SA to help you but it is our job to be grateful and to express our gratitude.

[Helen_Highwater]

Consuelo,

"Good manners cost nothing" and "Manners maketh the man" are great truisms. Being polite and courteous to my way of thinking should be the default position. Adding a dash of friendliness to the mix just moves it that bit more towards the less formal, the more human.

As you quite rightly say, "Being polite with SA's creates a good impression and if more of us do that then gradually they will develop a positive view of our community." I couldn't agree more.

[Jean 103]

You are right Consuelo.

Treat people as you would wish to be treated. Is that really so hard?

Some people are easy others take a little time to win over. I don't think about it anymore, I'm too busy with what I'm doing.

I stopped at a local restaurant for dinner awhile back. I don’t normally give my name when saying hi but this time I said “Hi I’m Jean”. She smiled and said “Yes I Know”. When I told my best friend she said basically she is a friend of a friend. People do talk, and you want to leave a good impression.

[Jenny22]

I've never shopped en femme, so have not had any interactions with floor SAs. But every time I'm in the pay line, I try to see the SA's name tag before its my turn. I then greet her/him by name and ask how things are going or maybe even 'you look tired. long day?'If a female, I'll say something nice to her .. your nails are very pretty! I always try to make them smile knowing that they have to be there and have to be nice to everyone they greet, even the A-holes. Their smiles tell me 'thanks'. If and when I ever do shop en femme, I will do the same just to make someone feel better, even if for a fleeting moment.

[Andrea2656]

As an example I recently went to a wig shop in drab. Got some odd looks but a lovely sales associate came over and asked what I needed. She helped me sort through choices and then helped me select the right wig. I put one on and looked in the mirror. It was not good and I saw her shaking her head then said “not you”. When she found out I was from out of town she threw in a bunch of freebies in lieu of the first wash free offer. She could not have been nicer.