Forms and pads cross the line...

[Kas]

Ok so I know many ladies on here like to wear breast forms or even hip pads while dressing up, but is wearing things like this more than just CDing? In my view, this also infers that you are gender disphoric to a certain extent due to the fact that it is a body enhancement and not simply clothing.

I understand that your clothing may require it because of a large “boob section”, but why not just choose clothes that don’t? (smallest cup size for example)

So, if you’re a wearer of pads and/or forms, do you consider yourself to be gender disphoric? If not, what is your explanation for wanting to wear these things when they’re not actually necessary to crossdress?

Edit: Gender disphoria might not be the right term, maybe body disphoria? Anyway, you get my point...

[Sarah Louise]

I don't think so.

In my view pads and forms are 100% essential when crossdressing. When I dress I want to transform myself to be as close to a genuine looking woman as I can. This is especially important if I venture out as I don't want to be clocked. I want to look feminine and hips and boobs are an essential part of this. In any event, women's clothes fit better if they're filled out in the right places.

But I don't consider myself to be gender or body disphoric. I'm comfortable in my own skin. I just love dressing up and transforming myself.

[Jaymie]

I agree with Sarah... I don't think so.

All girls like to look their best and for some of us that means shape wear including padded panties, corsets, etc. and yes even breast forms.

[Rachelakld]

My work mate has gender dysphoria, she's on hormones and planning to have her block and tackle removed.
She has changed her name and gender on all her legal documents.
Another friend has dysphoria and dreams of the day she can have her male bits removed.

Crossdressing is more along the lines of "female impersonator", since females have lovely curves, we want them also.

[AllieSF]

I always wore/wear breast forms and hip/butt padding. I did not do it because I was anything dysphoric. I did it because my aim was to dress and look like a woman, for my personal fun and to share with others when out and about. So, in a more general answer to your question, you do not have to be dysphoric to wear body enhancing undergarments and outer garments. You sound like some rugby players I met who criticize the need for protective padding, and helmets and other safety gear for American football. "I never needed it, why do you? Some sort of sissy or something?". That does not fly in my book. Everyone dresses for their own personal reasons and shoot for whatever target they have set for themselves, and nobody should questions their reasons for that or be coerced to give their justifications to a third party. It would be like me asking you why the hell you didn't use any padding and stuff like that. Hell, if you don't wear any padding why use makeup. Hell, if you don't use makeup either what are you doing dressing in women's clothes? I hope you get what I am trying to explain. I am happy you do you and have no questions nor criticisms, and I just like doing me. Oh, by the way, I now have body dysphoria and want and need the padding and am planning on some of that being made a permanent part of me in the future. So, in summary, you do not have to get it, just please accept it as it is.

[Tracii G]

Oh I see this thread going down the tubes quickly.
Why do some obsess about and analyze what others do?

[Kas]

Why do some obsess about and analyze what others do?

I’m sorry, Tracii.

To be honest, I’m just sick of all the “What is your favourite floral pattern?” “I got caught by my neighbours cat! What should I do???” type threads. Also, maybe new members or visitors are wondering the same thing.

I just love how so many here absolutely refuse to be referred to as transgender/transsexual/disphoric, but will happily admit they want to be like a woman in every possible way.

Meh. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Macey]

Interesting topic. Naturally, I don't think there would be a universal answer for all as I suspect the answers would be as varied as the individuals. I think out of, say, 10 people answering, you're likely to get 12 or 15 different responses.

For me, I wouldn't say 'dysphoric' in the sense of transition, as I have no desire to transition, but perhaps a temporary mild sort of dysphoria in the sense of 'what aspect of myself am I trying to project or enhance at any given moment', though it isn't a deep and conscious thought on that level at any given time.

So much of this plays to the notion of self identity. When I was a working musician, I sought to cultivate stage presence, and found that it works best NOT when trying to be a 'different' person, but by being a more enhanced version of myself. A more 'intense' version of myself, and that's something that is usually easy to accomplish, but still takes effort on days when you have to put on an entertaining show, but are just too damn tired or whatever. So wearing certain clothes, or certain shoes might enhance that. How you construct a set list, the songs you choose and where are part of taking the journey and taking the audience on that journey. You have to be sincere.

As a man, what 'enhances' a person's 'maleness'? Also individual, of course, but what makes a person feel more 'manly'? Is it a suit? Is it camouflage? Is it boots and jeans? Is it wearing a beard? Etc. All of us seek to 'enhance' our appearance in one way or another and for many, many different reasons.

I am of the belief that all of us have masculinity and femininity within us … and those are shaped from within and also from without. Most people do not live in isolation so the social mores of what it means to be 'masculine' of 'feminine' filter through in one way or another whether we choose to admit that or not.

So, this crossdressing thing, for me, is part of that journey of understanding my 'feminine' side as much as I do my 'masculine' side. An aspect of myself. A focused version of myself. The 'real' self, but no more and no less than any other focused version of myself.

I find that sometimes I am delighted with my 'maleness' (but oh so well practiced at it, of course), and sometimes delighted with my 'femaleness' (which needs much more practice at expressing), and very well satisfied at my various stages in between. Sometimes I wear forms and padding. Because I want to. Sometimes I don't, because I don't want to.

That's probably as detailed as I can manage at 4:00am in a limited web forum response.

[t-girlxsophie]

In only wear hip pads when out so I look my best and wear bum pads usually with trousers to give me a shapely butt,other times I dont bother it's simple as that.Would think why we wear breast forms would be self explanatory.

I would describe myself as Transgender but others would say i wasn't,but to paraphrase Grayson Perry I don't have any doubts about my gender I just love my femme side so much

Sophie

[Patience]

It's not a question of "liking" to wear forms. Women's clothes fit their bodies a certain way, and unless one is into being a MIAD (perfectly valid, btw), it's nearly impossible to properly impersonate a female without taking some steps to somewhat replicate the feminine physique.

And while it may be a good idea to conduct a search to make sure the subject one wants to discuss hasn't been covered before, I think folks with questions shouldn't be inhibited from asking. Most older threads are locked anyway, so they couldn't be brought back if we wanted.

[Aunt Kelly]

As is so often the case, the answer is, it depends. Some crossdressers are content to wear a single item of women's clothing. Some just to underdress. Others want to appear as feminine as possible. I do not believe that any of these cases is necessarily driven by gender dysphoria, but certainly is in some.
Thank you for the provocative question.

[kimdl93]

Certainly a far more interesting discussion than some. Some people are seeking to understand their motivation, some seek ways to rationalize their interest in femininity. And some just don’t care or need any explanation.

For my part, is see any desire to wear a garment ‘because it is associated with women’ as qualifications for membership in the transgender community. Whether once accepts that membership or not is up to them. Kinda like being 50 and eligible to join AARP.

Dysphoria is a separate matter. A TG may or may not feel distressed about gender identity or body image.

[Jamie Lynn]

"......clothing may require it..........." .
Exactly!
For some it's about the look. We want to look a certain way. We want to mimic something that appeals to us. The item of clothing appeals to us because of how it looks with a certain shape. If we don't mimic that shape then the that item of clothing doesn't look like we remember it or want it to.

[alwayshave]

Kas, I wear the pads and form to fill out the clothes. Simply stated I am not dysphoric, I just like the look.

[Elizabeth G]

Ok so I know many ladies on here like to wear breast forms or even hip pads while dressing up, but is wearing things like this more than just CDing? In my view, this also infers that you are gender disphoric to a certain extent due to the fact that it is a body enhancement and not simply clothing.

I do feel have some dysphoria. Just look at my signature - it sums things up pretty well.

[Carole]

Here's one then, the only item of clothing specifically designed for women is the bra, (skirts, high heels, wigs, make-up etc all being worn by men in the past). Are you, therefore, only 'crossdressing' when and if you wear a bra? and if you do then why would you not want to fill it as it is meant to be worn??

I'll get my hat and coat..................................

[Ressie]

Good question Kas. To me, crossdressing is (basically) wearing women's clothes. When I first joined here 10 years ago I noticed that most of those posting added forms, padding, makeup, wigs, jewelry, - whatever it takes to emulate a woman. Then there's also the need to shave off any or all of that man hair!

This is because most of those that post are into passing in public as a woman. So Kas, do you wear makeup and jewelry? Do you keep your face shaved so you'll look more fem? Do you ever dress in public and if you do, do you strive to pass as a woman or just look like a guy wearing girl's clothing?

To me, there's crossdressing and there's female emulation. It's more fun for me to do my best to look like a chick, although I haven't gotten into hip padding. It seems to be too hard to pull off in my view.

[Beverley Sims]

I think I am getting dysphoria trying to fathom this out.

[Krisi]

It seems a lot of diseases or conditions have been "discovered" (invented) since I was young. "Gender dysphoria" is one of those conditions. I have no confusion about what gender I am because I have to tuck away the identifier when I dress as a woman. I wear breast forms and hip padding (and a wig) when I dress as a woman because without them, I would be simply a man who got confused and put on his wife's dress this morning.

The term "crossdresser" describes a lot of different people doing a lot of different things. A man wearing women's panties is a "crossdresser". A man fully dolled up with a wig, boobs, hip padding, makeup, jewelry, etc. is also a crossdresser. There is no right or wrong way to do this as long as you're not hurting anyone.

[Cheryl T]

As Carole stated only a bra is uniquely feminine. Men wore heels and wigs first, Scots wear kilts which are similar to skirts. Perhaps the fabrics divide us the most.

As for Dysphoria, well I don't know if that would be correct, but I can say that it is most certainly more than just clothes for me. It's emotional in many ways.
When I dress (which is much of the time) it's not because I want to wear feminine clothes, it's because I want to wear MY clothes. I wear forms and padding to give me a figure that not only fills out my clothing properly, but also gives me the shape I wish I had.
Yes, I think I am more than just an average crossdresser. When I go out I never want to be seen as a CD. It is emotionally unsettling to me that someone would view me as anything other than just another woman. I dress to blend in. I don't delude myself that I PASS, but I simply wish to be accepted as a woman.

I think that answers your question in my case. Perhaps it's too much information, but then again I just felt I needed to say it.

[Micki_Finn]

Because some clothes just require it. Tops don’t come in bust sizes. Dresses and skirts aren’t made for narrow hips. Some garments simply require body modification to fit properly.

[Danielle_cder]

What line? I like the feminine line, a nice curvy one! With out forms and hips I would b a straight line

[Stacy Darling]

Your tread here is a personal choice!

I know as I wear ballet flats!

What is your choice Kas? I'm a ballet flats and no pads!
Stacy?

[Majella St Gerard]

I don't want to look like Twiggy I want to look like Sophia Loren. And I don't have gender identity issues.

[sara_also]

As others here have already stated, I want to appear to be female. Without forms and hip padding I would only be an old man in fem clothes. Not nearly what I am after. Lets not forget about the statement that says "if it feels good then do it". thats just me.

[Helen_Highwater]

Kas,

Erm, "I understand that your clothing may require it because of a large “boob section”, but why not just choose clothes that don’t? (smallest cup size for example)". because as stated earlier, dresses, blouses, tops come in sizes, 12, 14, 16 etc. True you can buy petite which tend to be a smaller fit but nearly all other things the bust size is somewhat assumed. Even pencil skirts which are cut to be snug in the hips fit better with padding.

And that's the point. My choice is to look as femme as I can and for that I require clothes to fit as intended. Do I have some form of dysphoria, don't know, don't care. I will refer to myself as being "Trans" if talking to especially someone outside of our community as it's become a label they're becoming increasingly familiar with, something they can get a handle on. To say I have a form of gender or body dysphoria to a muggle would make it sound like it's something you should be taking medication for.

In another thread you wrote;

My fear is being a MIAD (no offence to MIADS). That is why I’m going through HRT, because I only want to go out as a girl if I look like a girl, not a guy dressed in girls clothes with makeup and a wig.

If HRT doesn’t make me look like a girl? Well I guess I’ll be in the closet forever and that’s fine with me!

I don't want to sound critical here but I view the above as you trying to do with chemicals what others attempt to do with prosthetics and makeup. The difference lies in the willingness of others to present in the muggle world even with the knowledge that they don't truly "Pass". It saddens me to think that you may go through so much in undertaking HRT only to find for whatever reason that you're going to spend the rest of your life in fear of enjoying all that which so many of us here have joyously experienced.

Have you stopped to consider how you'll react if HRT takes you to 98% of what you believe to be what's needed to go out? You'll be a highly feminine looking person going about in men's clothing?

It seems to me Kas you need to deal with those little devils talking in your ear telling you bad things will happen because if you don't, even with HRT, the FEAR will continue to be the driving factor in your progress.

Sorry if I sound harsh but I really see your journey taking you into a cul-de-sac.

[MiniRock]

Yep, just a bloke who likes to look good in a dress. Don't bother with hip padding because I like how stuff fits me round the middle, but breast forms are essential.

[Tracii G]

Well sated Helen.
Kas you do what you want to do but please return the favor and let us to what we want to do.

[Lydianne]

@Kas: Basically the second part of what Helen wrote. I was going to write something similar in that thread, but I was pushed for time.

I was also going to add that an intensifying of need could shift your perspective ( as has been witnessed on these boards with the breakthrough outings of some others ) . . .

. . . Irresistible force meets immovable object.

It would either push you to beat the fear with the defiance that some of the stuff you have written on here would appear to suggest you would already be capable of doing, or your decision to remain indoors, which you are fine with now, might become acutely unsettling.

- Lydianne.

[Teresa]

Kas,
To crossdress doesn't mean you need the female shape , to be seen dressed with a more female shape could suggest a slight GD issue . That possobly describes me but it's not an answer to everyone . Besides F/M have the opposite problem if they have GD and wish to loose the female shape .

As for the point Helen raises , the one question I have is are you self medicating ? If that's the case then I totally agree with Helen , if it's under medical supervision then you may have been mislead slightly . You only have to read the TS section to see how unpredicatable medication can be before the balance has been found and not everyone responds in the same way or on the same time scale .

[Robertacd]

I have said this many times, but why would you not want to wear forms or pad your hips and ass?

Regardless of our reasons we are all trying to present ourselves as and to some extent be accepted as a woman.

Well the majority of women have breasts and their hips are as wide as or wider than their sholders and their butts and thighs are fatter. Totally opposite of the majority of men who have shoulders wider than their hips and skinny flat butts.

This really requires us to balance our figure by padding our lower half and using breast forms. Otherwise you will be clocked as a man in a dress from accross the street.

[Maid_Marion]

Lots of GGs get breast augmentation surgery. Even some, that in my opinion, are pretty well endowed to begin with!

I'm lucky to have a 32-26-32 figure and a 32A bra size without HRT. I fit wonderfully into women's clothes without any forms. But, anyone who says they effortlessly says they have a figure like that is lying. Especially if they are old enough to get the senior discount at the thrift store!

[Teresa]

Maid Marion,
I'm with you on this one I don't totally agree with Roberta , maybe I'm one of ther lucky ones , like you I have a well balanced figure , with my forms in I'm 37" bust 31" waist and 37" hips and never use lower padding . I mostly slip into UK size 12 and yes it does raise comments from SAs and female customers in the changing rooms .

[ellbee]

Good topic! :)


As someone who *doesn't* wear any kind of temporary body enhancements, I suppose my reasoning is because I don't want to come across as a woman. Perfectly happy in my clothing from the GG side of the aisle -- but as a guy. I want to be viewed as one, accepted as one, and treated as one.

When I started getting back into dressing like 2.5 years ago, I actually did buy some of those inexpensive "add-a-cup" boob enhancers... And while they were perfectly fine, I ended up not liking wearing them! :thumbsdn:

I do still wear a padded sports-bra on occasion. But only because sometimes I'll have on a tight stretchy work-out top with nothing over it, and I really hate the whole nipple-appearance issue. I get a bit of extra boobage from that, but that's fine, since it provides me with smooth clean lines.


However... :devil:

Back in my en-femme days, many moons ago? Fake boobs & hips were a MUST! I wanted the whole package, so to speak, from head to toe. And in order to achieve that, some extra "help" was needed.

I dunno, I guess it would look & seem weird, to do up everything, but not have boobs/butt/hips of a GG. Like, something would be "off," ya know? I simply wanted the most realistic & legit presentation as possible.

Was it dysphoria? I suppose that probably varies case by case.


But anyway, I don't like that stuff now, and that presentation is no longer "me." Plus, I've got a lot of muscle bulk on my entire lower body, so the natural hip/butt/thigh thing while wearing leggings is more than adequate for me these days. :heehee:


Finally, do these temporary enhancements cross any kind of line? I believe for some, they do. For example, the wife or GF of a CD'er may have absolutely no qualms with their SO wearing certain women's items, as long as it looks good/is well-suited for them -- but only in the male presentation.

When additional things start coming into play, like fake boobs & hips, wig, make-up, etc.? I can see how a wife/GF would be like, "Whoa, whoa! Wait a sec... What exactly is going on here?!? Bizarre territory! Too much for me to handle! Things are going too far!!"

So, in that sense, yeah, a line may be crossed there, IMO.

[Mafalda]

This thread brings me out a lot of thoughts.... Is there a line? I don't think so. We are here to show, all of us, as strict cathegories aren't usable when you speak about crossdressing and gender issues. Maybe there's a curve (sorry for the joke), a very unusual one, but not a line! Lines and boundaries can be scary things, and dangerous, too.

Acceptance is a great and powerful concept, though very hard to fully achieve. Both on ourselves and on someone else. We should keep on working on it.

[Rachael Leigh]

For me since I’m not going to transition but I do present non binary and mostly fem at work and other places, I use the
enhancements for comfort, it gives me a feel of a better presentation. I’ve been accused at my job of just being a crossdresser, which my response is no it’s way more than that for me, it’s just me being me.
As a note I don’t wear my forms to work most days but will once in a while because it makes my tops look better

[LeslieSD]

Body enhancing garment is not new. It has been everywhere for women / men and everyone. For example, isn't the purpose of shaper enhance your body and making it looking more curvy? It redistributes the fat in a way to make a more attractive shape.

One might argue that shaper did not add mass. Then, how about the padded bra? That's adding a part to your body that was not there in the first place. It has been used by millions of women all over the world. There are many other examples. High heels, it adds to the height and changes the posture.

Women will even go the length of cosmetic surgery and inject silcone to their body. The point is that there is a blury line of body dysphoria. To many people that line is probably a little above excessive cosmetic surgery. Wearing a padded bra and a padded panty is nowhere even near that line.

I think this is a very interesting topic, by the way.

[ellbee]

Leslie, I don't believe anyone (aside from me) is really talking about a "simple" padded bra & padded panty, for that extra bit of "oomph."


What we mean is full-size breast forms, real corset, *large* fake hips/butt (DressTech, Veronica, etc.). Like, stuff that would *radically* alter one's physique. :)

[Kas]

Wow this thread really blew up. Thanks for all your posts, ladies. Now time to actually go through and read them all.

- - - Updated - - -

Helen,

See the thing is, I am doing this for myself. I don’t care if I never reach the level where I would want to go outside fully dressed, because it makes no difference in my opinion. I don’t need confirmation from others. If I am happy then that’s all I care about. I am certainly not going to go out just for the sake of it ie driving to a petrol station in the middle of the night. Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest. I dress full time at home with my wonderful and accepting SO and daughter and that’s all I need (which is more than what the majority of people here have).

[Eva Bella]

I've never worn them, but all of my friends who aren't full-time do. You pretty much need some kind of boobs and some kind of hips to decently full out most women's clothing. A lot of CD's simply want to feel beautiful, and that's part of the deal. I have a curvy build by nature, so that's the only reason I'm not joining them in it.

[ElianaFrozenflame]

Disphoric means "unhappy". Wanting to look, and pass as the other gender does not necessarily mean they are unhappy with who, or what gender they are. I want to look like a woman. No, not all the time. If I had a magic pill that would make the change permanent, I'd turn it down. I am happy as a man. And I am happy as man trying to pass as a woman.

[Kas]

Kas you do what you want to do but please return the favor and let us to what we want to do.

Umm how am I stopping you from doing what you want? If a random person on the internet tells you they disagree with something you do, do you just go “oh ok. They must be right. I’ll stop right now.”....

I highly doubt that. I am not that influential unfortunately, but thank you for assuming I am.

Also, I have seen you refer to yourself as transgender, so your opinion isn’t really valid in this topic as I was asking about crossdressers who DO NOT view themselves as something more than just a crossdresser.

[Tracii G]

Oh snap I know where I'm not wanted.

[Helen_Highwater]

Helen,

See the thing is, I am doing this for myself. I don’t care if I never reach the level where I would want to go outside fully dressed, because it makes no difference in my opinion. I don’t need confirmation from others. If I am happy then that’s all I care about. I am certainly not going to go out just for the sake of it ie driving to a petrol station in the middle of the night. Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest. I dress full time at home with my wonderful and accepting SO and daughter and that’s all I need (which is more than what the majority of people here have).

Sorry Kas, I can't square that circle. If "Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest" why on earth go to all the trouble of HRT? I can totally understand that you are happy to stay behind your front door, to be yourself within the confines of your own four walls. If you're happy with that then I will argue that you're missing out but at the end of the day I'll respect your choice. Taking things way beyond that in resorting to HRT and in this thread asking searching questions of the motives of others who seek to portray themselves to the world in the best light possible seem totally at odds.

I will return to my earlier question. If HRT is 98% successful and you're left with a very feminine figure and facial features but still insufficient in your view to reach the goal of passing 100%, how are you going to cope with going out in male attire? Lets not forget HRT is likely to effect libido, voice, facial features. These are things you can't hide from the world, and your SO, yet you're worried about not passing 100% before going out because of what complete strangers might, or not, think

As for " I am certainly not going to go out just for the sake of it ie driving to a petrol station in the middle of the night." you do a great disservice to those who summon up huge amounts of courage to take those early tentative steps towards going out in public. My own experiences have enabled me to speak on this. As we say in the UK, don't knock it till you've tried it.

[countrygirl]

For me when I go from Ben to Amanda. I will go way beyond brest forms and hipp padding. I will padd up morbidly obese all over. Why you ask? Because when I am Amanda she is obese and extremely curvey. Not trying to offend anyone but I feel more comfortable when I get padded up fat.

[Tina June]

I wear whatever padding, forming, cinching, shaping, enhancing products that help me present a better Me.

[Kas]

Sorry Kas, I can't square that circle. If "Going outside dressed is not important to me in the slightest" why on earth go to all the trouble of HRT?

Wow... If you think the only reason people start HRT is to go outside and show off then you are sadly mistaken.

Your question doesn’t make any sense either. If I have a feminine figure, voice, facial features then of course I would be happy to go out. That is what I am trying to achieve and the whole point of starting HRT. Also, what is this thing with percentages? Explain the difference between what 98% and 100% would mean to you? There is not a single point where you suddenly “become” a woman...

“Oh look my hair is finally 13.3 inches long, that moved me from 99.735% woman to full 100%! Yay! Finally I can go out!”

What you’re asking makes no sense.

And if you think that because I choose not to drive to a petrol stations dressed in the middle of the night, I am showing a “great disservice” to other member, then well I do t know what to say other than, no?

[GretchenJ]

Umm how am I stopping you from doing what you want? If a random person on the internet tells you they disagree with something you do, do you just go “oh ok. They must be right. I’ll stop right now.”....

I highly doubt that. I am not that influential unfortunately, but thank you for assuming I am.

Also, I have seen you refer to yourself as transgender, so your opinion isn’t really valid in this topic as I was asking about crossdressers who DO NOT view themselves as something more than just a crossdresser.

moderator hat on:
You asked in in your original post if it was more than cd’ing, not that you not wanted the opinions of CD’ers only. If this was the case, then your opinion would be moot as well as you are clearly not only a Cder as you have posted on the TS site and you are currently on HRT.

One final note, please don’t diminish those people who venture out just to get gas and come back. You have found your comfort zone and that is truly fantastic (no sarcasm intended), but everyone here has their unique way of expressing themselves , what you claim about forms and pads to you may apply to wigs and makeup to others.

[docrobbysherry]

I dress for me! I'm a straight man attracted to fem women. :battingeyelashes:

When I look in the mirror a sexy, fem women there turns me on! :D
A man in a dress turns me off! And, ruins the dressing experience for me!:sad:

If u don't dress for yourself, or simply don't care how u look?:doh:
Maybe you're dressing for emotional/subconscious reasons? Call them whatever u like!:straightface:

[Vikky]

I always wear a bra and forms when dressing day or night, and sometimes hip pads. I don't mind what term you describe what I do, but I like it and want to emulate women in mannerisms and how they dress, and within the limitations of my circumstances, their life experience.
This brilliant website seems to offer the best place to get advice, support and encouragement.
Vikky

[Teresa]

Kas,
Please don't get too heated over the replies, the problem is you question and replies are contradictory to a degree . Helen and I are totally out the door , neither of us are on hormones to achieve that . I personally have thought long and hard about that issue, it is a balancing act but like Helen it doesn't make total sense to put your body through that if you wish to stay safely inside , I'm not knocking it , it's what you are happy with .

I have to agree with Gretchen , the small steps eventually lead to a big result , to some a turning point in understanding their needs . Most of us have been down that road ( almost literally !) Daring yourself, pushing yourself it's a progression .

[Ressie]

Also, I have seen you refer to yourself as transgender, so your opinion isn’t really valid in this topic as I was asking about crossdressers who DO NOT view themselves as something more than just a crossdresser.

Aren't crossdressers considered transgender? Don't confuse TG with TS as many ignorant people do.

[SuzyZahn]

Pretty simple explanation that works for me is,,,, the better I can look, the better it makes me feel. I just enjoy the total transformation.

[phili]

Kas,
I have a foot in both worlds now, and I mention it bc you may find this happening to you, too. I regard body enhancements as basically a dishonest presentation that undermines my legitimacy, so I advocate my MIAD look.

Hypocritically, I only like dresses that have tight fitting bodices to emphasize my waist, pick patterns that take eyes off my broad shoulders, and I use underskirts to create the illusion of hips- with no qualms whatsoever!

When i get a wonderful chiffon dress with sewn in falsies, I remove them- but... just for a moment, looking down, I am deliriously happy. I realize at that moment exactly why my flat wife and daughter wear falsies, and seamlessly conform to what is expected to signal 'desirable female'- it is like makeup or nice hair- it is a look that has deep acceptance in thousands of years of art expressing the ideal female figure. They know they are falsies, but it is accepted and expected as a part of joining the club and proudly wearing the uniform.

I really am only stopped from participating by not wanting to spend all the effort trying to get my face to look feminine, given my certainty I wouldn't succeed. I am looking for the right weekend to spend a bunch of money and just see, tho! *[Yes -Teresa and others, I did hear you!]

So I just go out and visually proclaim new rules and a new game that includes mirls!

I got some initial flak here for that- but as has been said- eventually everyone realizes our big win is found through inclusive appreciation of our diversity. I ended up finding out that I could quite easily follow many other's paths.

[Patience]

I regard body enhancements as basically a dishonest presentation that undermines my legitimacy, so I advocate my MIAD look.

Well, if you wanted to suggest that crossdressers who seek to look as feminine as possible are being dishonest, I can’t see how you could have done better!

I'm curious as to what you mean by “legitimacy”.

Finally, I think it needs to be mentioned (again) that women use enhancing devices all the time, so it should be fair game for CDers. Virtually the whole cosmetics industry exists for the benefit of women. We just take advantage of the same resources. Is it only bad when CDers do it?

[Stephanie47]

When Kas started the thread I had some thoughts going. I wanted to see where this was going. I do agree with Kas kicking around the subject is worthy of exploration. I wish when I was a young man there is a site I could participate in or just be a lurker trying to gain some insight.

My two cents really comes from a counselor I see for war related PTSD. She does not know I have a need to wear women's clothing. I have no issues wearing women's clothing. My wife and probably many people around me have issues of I wearing women's clothing.

My counselor is of the opinion each person, male or female, has some DNA of the opposite sex. She says in some it is more than others. I see her opinion as a continuum. A sort of sliding scale starting at zero and going to 100% percent. If I accept this premise then a transperson needing to change his or her life to the other sex is as near as 100% as possible. Hence, the result is as much surgical remedy and hormones remedy as possible.

Me? Where do I fall into all this? I am comfortable with my male identity. I am not a woman trapped in a man's body. I have resolved all those contradictions with society a long time ago. As I have stated many times in my comments I have had periods of inactivity when it comes to presenting as a woman. If what my counselor says is true I can see that in myself. There was a period of raging hormones necessary to keep me alive. That period of time broke me down to acting as an animal. Developing senses of an animal to perceive mortal danger and act upon it. Truly, not a sexual thought in my head. When my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer the role of supportive husband became dominant. Protect my mate.

Do I need boobs? Probably not, but, it does enhance the image when Stephanie arises in me. Why did GG's pad their bras in their youth? Why do women have breast enhancements? Or nose jobs? May it is to try as best possible to meet their womanly mental image. I enhance my chest because I see uniformity in the female form. Whether small boobs or overly large breasts, women have boobs. I do not use hip pads. I never did. My form is 42-38-40. Very minor hour glass figure. My wife always said I have a nice butt. I will accept her judgement. I see many women who do not have an hour glass shape. More boxy. They seem to be comfortable without the hour glass shape. I am not saying those with a waist number larger than the bust size are not envious or desiring a leaner look. Most women seem to be comfortable with their self image. When it comes to makeup I see very few women plastering on the war paint. My wife wears some lip gloss on the days she works. Otherwise, none. She really does not need any makeup at all. At 67 she still have great skin and sparkling eyes. Frankly, some women go overboard and really present a negative image with the makeup.

I think the extent a male is going to want to present as a woman really depends where he/she falls on the sliding scale. If a man is not comfortable with what he is doing I would recommend counseling.

[Teresa]

Phili,
I'm glad you're still speaking to me !

Yes I also hear you . I have to say after so many months the whole process is like falling off a log now .
I confess I still attend my art sessions in my old home town in drab , my tutor came to me a couple of weeks ago to ask if he should seek permission for me to attend dressed . We have a great relationship and I value his classes and his company but the classes are only viable if he gets ten or more students , I would hate to close them down because they weren't happy with me attending as Teresa . I have met them all dressed when I attended the private viewing day for the annual exhibition without any problems . I mentioned this because when the classes finish at 12.30 I have twenty miles to drive home, last week I had an appointment for 2.10pm back in my new home town I arrived home at 1.05 pm and was out of my home with full make up dressed by 1.45 , I'd also had time to grab a sandwich as well .

[Jane G]

I spent 50+ years wanting to be a woman. For reasons I do not understand but I suspect self preservation and the love of a good woman, I am, for now, simply a happy crossdresser. I have always used home made hip pads and forms since my sister's changed shape and I felt left out. I still use them my female cloths fit me better I look better and therefore I feel better with them, always have, always will. Gender dysphoria, that's just a term. We each live are own lives the best we can.

[Helen_Highwater]

Wow... If you think the only reason people start HRT is to go outside and show off then you are sadly mistaken.

Your question doesn’t make any sense either. If I have a feminine figure, voice, facial features then of course I would be happy to go out. That is what I am trying to achieve and the whole point of starting HRT. Also, what is this thing with percentages? Explain the difference between what 98% and 100% would mean to you? There is not a single point where you suddenly “become” a woman...



Kas,

The percent figure isn't mine, it's yours. I'm asking if, by your assessment, the outcomes of HRT fall even slightly short of giving you the look you desire such that, as you've written before; because I only want to go out as a girl if I look like a girl, then what are you going to do? It's a simple question. Will you continue presenting in drab while carrying noticeably femme features, possibly breasts but not sufficient that to an observer they're left to question your gender. Surely you can see there's a possible minefield ahead for you? Many of those who actually transition have to resort to facial surgery to finally give them the look they desire.

About a year ago there was a series on UK TV about a clinic specializing in gender re-assignment. One of the attendees having gone through HRT and surgery still wouldn't go out dressed because he/she thought people would know he/she wasn't a female. That's what not thinking things through leads to.

I also take exception to the use of; "go outside and show off ". The implication is that any of us who do venture into the world dressed do so only to flaunt ourselves to the general public.

[Kas]

The percent figure isn't mine, it's yours.

Lol no it isnt. Where did i ever use percentages? Please show me the quote.... oh wait you cant. Because i never said it. I cant beleive you would blatantly lie like that...

Also, basically none of your comments have actually been about the topic this thread is about and are more just trying to insult me personally. If you dont have anything tonadd to the topic please stop commenting. If you want to fight with me, pm me, dont ruin my threads with your crazyness.

To answer your question (which is completely off topic from my OP) definitively, if i fall slightly short of where i want to be and there is nothing more i can do, then yes i will still go outside dressed. Using YOUR percentage scheme, 98% is still a pass from me. Are you happy now?

[Deedee Skyblue]

I agree with Tracii, if that is what you want to wear, I don't see any reason to ask about it - we need to be comfortable with ourselves and I don't see any reason to try and categorize ourselves. And I also get what Patience is saying - without doing something to change our body shapes, a lot of clothes we like to wear just don't look or fit right. Deedee

[phili]

Well, if you wanted to suggest that crossdressers who seek to look as feminine as possible are being dishonest, I can’t see how you could have done better!

I'm curious as to what you mean by “legitimacy”.

Finally, I think it needs to be mentioned (again) that women use enhancing devices all the time, so it should be fair game for CDers. Virtually the whole cosmetics industry exists for the benefit of women. We just take advantage of the same resources. Is it only bad when CDers do it?

Hi Patience,
I tried to say I was talking about my view of myself- I want to feel that people are seeing the me that they will find under my clothes, since dressing in public is about indulging my own feelings of sex appeal, without actually looking for sex. I did not make clear that I felt it was not dishonest in others, but rather an unnecessary burden for them, to pad up, and I had my great alternative solution of being a MIAD/mirl.

I tried to make clear for the benefit of Kas, who seemed to have a negative view on padding that he might, as I now do, totally get it. After I felt myself looking down and seeing breasts, not falsies, I felt the pleasure of actually looking like a female, and no need for further justification!

[Krisi]

Aren't crossdressers considered transgender? Don't confuse TG with TS as many ignorant people do.

I don't consider myself "transgender". I consider myself as a "crossdresser". Nothing more, nothing less. A crossdresser.

And let's be careful who we are calling "ignorant". Just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't make them "ignorant". It's quite possible that in their view, you are the ignorant one.

[Michelle Vinova]

Kas,
Your post come across pretty judgmental, which is probably why you are getting some tough responses. Judgy as in, if you wear forms/hip pads you have crossed a line and have a dysphoria problem!!

If that wasn’t your intent and you’re honestly just curious as to why some of us CD’s do then I’ll add my two cents:

I didn’t wear a wig/forms/pads for most of my life. I did put socks in my bra though, so maybe that still counts.
It was a slow progression for me as I’m sure it was for most. Add wig; add forms; add make up; add pads. All in attempt to get better at presenting as female.

As has been stated many times, breast forms feel great because they have a weight and bounce that just makes it all feel more natural. Hip pads definitely not. I look better in them for an hourglass shape but I don’t like that I can’t feel the panties and dress because of the pads. It’s a trade off depending on what I’m going for.

As far as dysphoria? I’m very happy with my life. I’m not a girl trapped in a guy’s body. But, I do like being able to be a guy and CD to be able to express a femme side too. Does society call us weird? Sure. Is it a mental dysphoria? Maybe it would be for us if we could NOT do it. Then we’d be unhappy.

I’d also like to point out, as was mentioned earlier, the late night gas tank fill up should not be ridiculed in any sense. That’s a big step towards overcoming fears that society has put on us about CD being wrong. The more of us that take that step, the better it is for our entire TG community.

[josie_S]

wow...a lot of claws came out in this thread!

I don't know that I have dysmorphia because I use breast forms. There is definitely a kind of woman I hope to emulate, and she happens to be curvy. I went from socks, to towels, to pantyhose filled with rice, to forms, and the only reason is bc the forms look the best. does that make me dysmorphic? maybe. but I'm also not unhappy with my blocky male frame either, until I want to wear slinkier clothes, and then the answer is enhancements and corsets. So I guess I'd say I don't know if I am. but I know I wouldn't be happy without my enhancements. To each her own ;)

EDIT: I should've just copied Michelle's answer above..she said what I meant better than I did!

[Tracii G]

To each there own yeah I agree with that.
I don't see why people get mad if you don't agree.
We are all different.

[sometimes_miss]

I've had one person insist to me that GID is the root cause of all crossdressing; it's only finding the cause of that GID which may be different for each of us. While that may very well be the case, I can see a whole lot of people who will insist that because they are 'real men' who will tell you that 'this isn't the real me' when they crossdress, we're probably far, far away from ever being able to accept that truth and use it as a beginning to search for what is at the root of it all.
Crossing the line? It's all 'crossing the line'. Ask women if they're fine with us 'just crossdressing without using padding to emulate the feminine body shape'.

It's all crossing the line.

[Andrea2656]

It is an interesting question but you can take it on set further and ask is wearing women’s clothing indicative of gender dysphasia. Gender dysphoria is the distress you have based on your sex and gender at birth Wikipedia definition not mine). I like to wear women’s clothes and look as good as I can when I am expressing the Andrea side of me. But I have no interest in transitioning. I do not feel that I was born the wrong sex.

There is an enormous range of reasons that people crossdress. Some people may have gender dysphoria but I do not think that is is at all tied to choice of what we choose to wear.

I love my beast forms and hip padding as it makes me as Andrea look my best.

It is the wrong use of the term to just gender dysphoria on the basis of clothing and accessories.

Andrea

[Ressie]

I don't consider myself "transgender". I consider myself as a "crossdresser". Nothing more, nothing less. A crossdresser.

And let's be careful who we are calling "ignorant". Just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't make them "ignorant". It's quite possible that in their view, you are the ignorant one.

Transgender is an adjective as in: Yep, you're a transgender person in my view because you're a crossdresser.

[AllieSF]

In line with the much disputed definitions used and written by the Admins/Mods on this site, Transgender is the umbrella term under which is pantie wearers, to MIRL's/MIAD's, to Non-Binary and their own spectrum to TS from no post op nor hormones to post-op, hormones and living full time. Those that like their own definitions, so be it.

[Kas]

I personally agree that crossdressing is technically transgender, but for some reason this site decided to make a specific TG/Non-Binary section, making it seem as if it’s an all together completely different thing.

I can understand how it can be hard for some to understand.

[TG-Taru]

I don't think you need to be dysphoric or dysmorphic to wear forms and padding, it can just complete the look. Can be more, doesn't always have to be. Some CDs just like the clothes, some like the full appearance. And external body enhancement isn't yet body modification.

I do think though there is overlap between the different definitions, and different ways of being inside each. So I wouldn't worry overmuch what's beyond what. I agree with TG as umbrella term, but also consider it, when used about individuals and not the collective, as the area between CD and TS (or the area left over, being neither extreme) – or if you leave it vague, whether for want or uncertainty.

For me personally it's kinda opposite, wearing things like that is more like CDing. Ever since I started seeing myself more as a mid-spectrum TG/NB/short-of-TS, I'm more reluctant to use heavy-duty artificial enhancements – accentuate, not fake. I want it to be real me. So my forms and paddings were mostly used in my CD days, now I'd only consider them if I really wanted to wear something that'd look bad without. For others, falling short of the look can be more of an issue of course, and paddings are in – well, if I didn't have any natural at all, I'd also feel better with forms, for those times I'd feel lacking.

[Kas]

TG-Taru,

Interesting view, especially your last paragraph. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[Emily Occasionally]

This sounds a bit like the old argument that "If humans were supposed to fly they would have wings." Yet we still had the need to travel to far away places at incredible speeds. So we climb inside these steel tubes with wings. We have adapted to our needs as a species.

Padding and forms aren't crossing a line...they are an adaptation. We are for better or worse stricken with an internal situation whether in mind or spirit which causes us to, for whatever reason, desire to dress and feel effeminate and womanly despite our downstairs parts. There's nothing wrong with adapting to these circumstances. If we are to be ok with ourselves then we need to be able to adapt to these feelings inside us. If breast forms make someone feel like they are moving in the right direction with their condition then why should they deny themselves?

If you wear glasses does that make you dysphoric? No. So why would wearing breast forms mean you are? Some people need glasses and other people don't need them. Some people need breast forms and other people don't just like glasses. It's as simple as that. There are other things you can do to improve your sight like contacts or laser surgery but some people just like wearing glasses. The same goes with forms and pads.

[Aunt Kelly]

At the risk of lengthening yet another debate about labels...
The term "transgender" has become an "umbrella" term, encompassing under it all forms of gender non-conformity. Embrace the term or don't, at your pleasure. Just know that it has become something of a convention and that in light of that, a crossdresser is indeed, transgender.

[Kas]

If you wear glasses does that make you dysphoric? No. So why would wearing breast forms mean you are? Some people need glasses and other people don't need them. Some people need breast forms and other people don't just like glasses. It's as simple as that. There are other things you can do to improve your sight like contacts or laser surgery but some people just like wearing glasses. The same goes with forms and pads.

I’m sorry but you can’t compare wearing breast forms or pads to wearing glasses...

Glasses are designed to be worn by men or women and generally have a functional purpose ie. seeing better or protection from the sun. Breast forms are designed to emulate a woman’s body part with no purpose other than making you look and feel like more like a woman..

One could therefore argue, that by somebody wanting to emulate a woman’s body part so badly, to the point of wearing coloured globs of rubber hidden under their shirts, it could be seen as a form of gender/body disphoria.

Also, nobody NEEDS breast forms.

And for the record, I have NO problem with people wearing forms or pads. As someone who suffers gender and body disphoria to the point of starting HRT, I am wondering where the motivation behind it comes from. I myself, despite my disphoria, have never felt the need or want to go to that extend in my crossdressing and just find it hard to believe others do, without identifying as being disphoric in any way.

I’m not talking about everybody here, but many of the “crossdresser only” types on this site want to look like a woman, be seen as a woman, be treated like a woman, dress like a woman, talk like a woman, act like a woman, smell like a woman and everything else (like a woman). It’s almost as if they want to be.........a woman. But god forbid ever having that crazy idea.

[Tracii G]

Mastectomy patients are what breast forms were originally designed for so yes they feel the need to have them.

[Kas]

Yes youre right Tracii, thats exactly what i said. To give them their womanly figure back and to make them feel like a "woman" again by emulating their missing body part.

But it's definitely not as necessary (if at all) in life as being able to see for example. So it is more of a want...

FYI, I was talking in reference to crossdressing, not breast cancer. Sorry, didn't know i had to make that clear. To all of you mastectomy patients that are reading this, im sorry if i have offended you in any way.

[Tracii G]

You made yourself perfectly clear and I get what you are saying but I thought I would inject that to be more clear as to who actually needs them.
No need to make it sound like I am stupid OK?

[Becky Blue]

Interesting thread Kas and very topical for me. Firstly I will state for the record I have some level of Dysphoria at times and consider myself GB... most of my GD seems focused on my body hair.

Recently I had a dress up & makeover day with the wonderful Cindy at Boys Will Be Girls. The day involved 8 looks/outfits. We decided to try one with breast plates which I have never tried before. The results were 'mixed'...

Positives - I have some very interesting pictures (which I may share on here one day)
Negatives - They felt completely weird and totally unnatural

For me dressing is not just how I look, its equally how I feel and I felt completely NOT like the woman I try to be. The most interesting part for me was looking down onto my cleavage did not look right. When I dress I do enjoy making a small natural cleavage and I love looking down at my small natural cleavage. Looking down the the breastplate looked and felt like it was someone else.

That being said, I am not judging anyone who wears them if it makes them feel good. As for hip pads, I see them no different to fake boobs or a cincher, if thats what makes you feel more womanly then go for it i say.

[Tracii G]

I agree Becky its just a personal thing.
Nobody is trying to be fake or mislead anyone.
I know some trans people have this "authentic" thing and they really don't get it if somebody wears forms or hip pads.
I work with trans people and its a common thing really and sometimes referred to as "living a lie".
I have heard that over and over and have watched a few marriage fail over it.

[KelleyB]

I have three bras, stuff all of them, and the reasons are:

1. I like the look
2. I like the feel
3. My femme clothes don't work well without a bra

I'm a MIAD, and it will remain that way.

"Choose clothes which are a small cup size..."

Yeah, that's not the way it works with most femme clothing beyond brassieres.

[docrobbysherry]

Kas, I think u have gotten to the crux of your issue:

Those here that NEED to present female. And, those that WANT to be seen as a female!:battingeyelashes:

The lengths to which some T's here will go to look female, opposed to the many who do little, yet r comfortable presenting that way is definitely thot provoking!:straightface:

Said the 70+ y/o man who looks like Barbie!:tongueout

[Emily Occasionally]

I’m sorry but you can’t compare wearing breast forms or pads to wearing glasses...

Glasses are designed to be worn by men or women and generally have a functional purpose ie. seeing better or protection from the sun. Breast forms are designed to emulate a woman’s body part with no purpose other than making you look and feel like more like a woman.

One could therefore argue, that by somebody wanting to emulate a woman’s body part so badly, to the point of wearing coloured globs of rubber hidden under their shirts, it could be seen as a form of gender/body disphoria.

Also, nobody NEEDS breast forms.

And for the record, I have NO problem with people wearing forms or pads. As someone who suffers gender and body disphoria to the point of starting HRT, I am wondering where the motivation behind it comes from. I myself, despite my disphoria, have never felt the need or want to go to that extend in my crossdressing and just find it hard to believe others do, without identifying as being disphoric in any way.

I’m not talking about everybody here, but many of the “crossdresser only” types on this site want to look like a woman, be seen as a woman, be treated like a woman, dress like a woman, talk like a woman, act like a woman, smell like a woman and everything else (like a woman). It’s almost as if they want to be.........a woman. But god forbid ever having that crazy idea.

What? No one needs glasses either. You do know that for most of human history glasses didn't exist, right? Especially sunglasses which have only been in existence for about 80 or so years. Yes colored lenses did exist but they were primarily used in medicine to help with various eye based afflictions. Glasses specific for use by people to see in the sun has only been around since the 1930s or so. People got on fine without them for millennia.

To say that forms have no purpose other than their explicit purpose is just being obtuse. That isn't an argument. Just because you don't like them (I know you are fine with form wearers as people) doesn't mean their purpose isn't a legitimate one. For myself at least I feel like the forms complete the look. I have nothing going on chest-wise. I mean no amount of pushing my pecs around is going to help. I feel fine with my body. Never had a drop of body dysphoria. Forms complete the look of femininity though. That doesn't mean that I curse my male body...it just means I have to buy a little something extra to make the dresses look right.

I have no real desire (or expectation) that when I (someday, maybe) go out dressed that anyone will treat me like a woman. I can't seem to get a good female voice down. I can't afford perfume and even if I could I don't want to smell like it. I like my Old Spice just fine. I'm not looking to crossdress to be a woman persay...I'm looking to crossdress to be in touch with another aspect of me. I might go Emily but I'm still just me. My male-self doesn't go away. I'm not looking for an escape from reality. I'm seeking the reality of another part of myself. And yes part of that means looking female with forms.

Shoot. Maybe we all are dysphoric and just don't know it or something. I don't know. Any time I've heard dysphoria described, I've never felt that feeling. So if I haven't felt it how can I identify as being dysphoric? It's kind of like when you have two different languages...they might be related like Spanish and Italian but they are different. If I speak Italian I might be able to identify words and understand and show compassion to a Spanish speaker but I will not be able to fully comprehend the depth of their feelings because different languages make you think and feel in different ways. They program your brain differently. So if I am a man who likes women but also likes to dress as one and be cute sometimes including forms and you are someone who was born with male genitalia who is actually a woman, we can meet and have common ground on this site but I cannot fully understand dysphoric feelings. I can compare them to other things I have felt and offer sympathy and my hand as an ally but I cannot understand fully the desire to change a body (your body) in such a way as SRS or hormones. I can support you and your decisions but it's just not right for me on any level. I've never felt that way before. By the same token, you can read what I have to say but have no frame of reference for being comfortable in your own body and still dressing with pads because...well you haven't felt that way before and I hope that your HRT and SRS bring you to a place where you can feel that level of comfort but as it stands your discomfort is a foreign concept to me and my comfort is just as foreign to you. That doesn't mean our feelings don't exist. It's just the human condition that we can't feel the exact same feelings as someone else. We can't fully understand other people. We can certainly identify but we can't feel the exact same way.

[AllieSF]

Kas, Can you go into more detail with your issues and need/desire to take hormones to get the feminization affects that you hope for? What confuses me is that you are ready to take hormones or are close to that for what affect? MtF hormone takers generally have, from what I have read, minimal true and significant body changes (breast growth, fat redistribution to the hips, butt and face) when compared to natal/genetic females going through puberty. If you are younger, and from your avatar picture you look younger than a lot of us here, you may exceed the averaged changes as reported here and from many TS's that I know and have talked to. The majority of them have opted for breast implants. Some stop wearing other padding while others do not. It has always been questioned on this site when a CD, which you have stated here that you are, only takes the hormones to grow breasts and maybe get some fat redistribution, because these can be permanent changes that one must live with for the rest of their lives. Thus the usual recommendation to use breast forms and padding.

You also state that you can't go out into the real world until your body dysmorphia is under control through the use of hormones and resulting hoped for body changes. Those that do go out have all expressed their own inner satisfaction and joy being out there even if they do not pass nor really blend in well. I can't speak for Australia or other countries, but members here from all over our country go out where they live, safely and happily with minimal fuss and issues if any. So, my other question is, if you are using body presentation as your excuse for not going out, if I understand correctly what you have written here, and you want to go put and enjoy what others are enjoying and writing about here, why go to the extreme, and taking hormones is an extreme, to make that happen. Why not just go out without padding and forms and enjoy it. OR, wear some forms and/or padding to do that. It is much less expensive, doesn't mess with your body chemistry and mind, and can be stopped at any time and has no permanent affect on your body? If, you still decide to go the hormone route, do you plan on doing that under medical supervision, which you definitely should do, telling them the truth that you are a crossdresser and not a transsexual, or do you plan on doing it some other way?

[Heather Anne]

I agree 100% with what Sarah Louise has said. I am part time crossdresser. I use breastforms when I go out in public dressed 100% en femme from head to toe. I have never considered the need for hip or butt pads. I see no need for hip or butt pads. I am comfortable with just breast forms. I my wardrobe consists of dresser, skirts and blouse along with all of the related undergarments. I live near Atlanta, Ga and in summer it can get awfully warm when wearing breastforms. I wear breastform covers over the breastforms and that helps. I consider myself a crossdresser nothing more. I am completely comfortable with the way I dress. Most of the time I get out dressed en femme about twice a week. I have been going out dressed en femme since 2004. I have never felt the need for any type of counseling. I am happy and content the way I am and the way I dress.

[Krisi]

Folks often complain about the intolerance of the general public but I see the same level of intolerance right here in this thread. What is the real purpose behind this thread? It seems it is to divide us and cause unnecessary tension. Just like we ask the public to have tolerance, we should ask ourselves the same thing. If some (probably most) of us wear breast forms, why is that someone else's concern? Why should someone hang a label on us? What right does anyone have to hang a label on us?

[Miss V]

Hmm. Intersting question, Kas.

I've never really thought about the fact that crossdressing is basically just wearing the clothes of the opposite gender. But going further with forms makes it something slightly more.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's dysphoria. But I think it's certainly more than just "Crossdressing".

[Rachelish]

Folks often complain about the intolerance of the general public but I see the same level of intolerance right here in this thread. What is the real purpose behind this thread? It seems it is to divide us and cause unnecessary tension. Just like we ask the public to have tolerance, we should ask ourselves the same thing. If some (probably most) of us wear breast forms, why is that someone else's concern? Why should someone hang a label on us? What right does anyone have to hang a label on us?
To be fair, I don't think that was the intention of the OP. Personally, I've found it quite thought-provoking and have been thinking a lot about dysphoria (as in "a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction"), how and when that applies to me, and how my use of forms and padding fit into that. If I can get it into some sort of order in my mind, I'll post it here but in the meantime I'll continue to follow the main thread with interest.

[Krisi]

Maybe not the OP but some of the people who responded.

[Majella St Gerard]

Some people over think things

[Tracii G]

Exactly Majella

[abby054]

My reason is simple: with pads and shape wear, my clothes fit; without forms and shape wear, my clothes do not fit. Like styling my wig, once I decide how I want to look, the rest becomes an engineering problem.