Why me???

[deebra]

Moderators please don't delete, it does not defame any group, it is all about presentation and society acceptance: Thankyou.


I have lesbian friends and I see how most dress, short masculine hair cuts, no makeup and drab plain male clothing. I have gay male friends and some dress flamboyant with hair styles, clothing and makeup. While Christmas shopping in the mall I saw four females dressed as described and I was happy to see they just blended in like all the other shoppers. Yet as a male if I wear girl jeans, heeled booties and girl top with forms I am not accepted the same. This is how I feel inside and like to dress. I need the boobs to complete the look I want. Why the others and not me??????

[Teresa]

Deebra,
May I ask if you are fully dressed or MIAD ?( I also don't want to sidetrack this thread with a MIAD debate I'm just asking this question to you ) Also do you think you have more of a problem being accepted in you mind rather than reality , or are you looking for or expecting a reaction ?

[Andrea2656]

Debra

In the past several decades it has become a norm for women to dress in jeans and tops that can be asexual meaning suitable (societal term) for a women. There are a number of other threads bemoaning the decreasing wearing of dresses and skirts. Going out without make is also common for women. However, you are entirely correct the dressing in the opposite way (blouses, skirts, dresses) on a man is still consider beyond the norm. It will vary by location but would be the reaction in the typical suburban mall.

No great answer here other than hoping for indifference if not acceptance. If we could go where we wanted without comment, stares or comments it would be good.

Andrea

[Jolene Robertson]

This did not happen overnight for women, remember "women's suffrage". Women paid the price back then and things changed because some had the courage to step up. I see more acceptance for us but it will take time for society to fully accept us too. Just the way I look at it, maybe I'm wrong.

[Stacy Darling]

I'm a Flamboyant one, and am I seen differently to you?

If you NEED the boobs to complete you? are you essentially who you are?

That was harsh, I wear make-up and glam myself up, guess we all have our way!

[Majella St Gerard]

It's called a double standard.

[Danielle_cder]

Boobs are super important to me it’s one of the reasons I dress up. A guy with boobs walking around the mall would be a different site, although not wrong in any way it’s highly uncommon. For me if I’m fully dressed wig, make up, forms, hips, and venue corresponding clothing I will blend pretty well. Breast size can change things too if you know what I mean.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Current statistics (depending on who you ask and how you ask and where you are )
. 4.5% of women are lesbians
. 1.1% of men crossdress
. .3% of women crossdress
. Society is more accepting of Lesbians then crossdressers.
. Your own perceptions of what clothing/hairstyles are feminine vs masculine

Lets face it society still freaks out if a man EVER wears a Kilt except on Scottish Highland Day.

The absolutely only way things will change is if each and every one of us to wear a skirt/dress/ whatever on days that begin with T

[Micki_Finn]

Maybe your presentation isn’t good enough.

[DaisyLawrence]

It's the same question yet again Deebra. I'm not sure how many times you think you need to ask it in order to get the answer you want. The thing is we are the wrong people to ask. If you feel intolerance around you then you need to ask those people what is the cause of that intolerance, not broad minded inividuals like us. I get that you think society is not being 'fair' to you but no amount of complaining here is going to change that. The way I see it you have two choices - either:

1: Take Micki's advise and improve your presentation so that you too blend in and disappear

or:

2: Realise that actually you can dress anyway you like in the western world and just embrace that freedom and get on with it without complaining, who knows you may learn to enjoy the experience :)

Sorry if those options are not what you want to hear but that is the truth of it I'm afraid.

[Stacy Darling]

Maybe your presentation isn’t good enough.

Lets see your presentation then!
I Can back mine up!
Stacy!

[Beverley Sims]

Mayb dressing as you are is not accepted by the majority, lesbians as you describe them have taken a long time to evolve as have effeminate men in blouses and bright clothes.

Men wanting to pass as women need to go all the way and not use half measures to achieve their goal.

The Miad has been around for a while as well and has an increasing membership, maybe you present as a gay male with beard stubble, that, is still considered a little weird as against the young clean face of a gay male.

Yes I agree with Stacy's last comment here as I am replying hypothetically otherwise.

[Charlotte7]

Deebra, I'm sure that you're presenting in the way that makes you happy? Then get on with life and just enjoy being out there - it matters not a jot whatever anyone else thinks.

Also, I'd like to think that it's not you're intention but try not to stereotype gay people who in reality come in every single shape and size and dress in every single way immaginable. In fact they're just like the rest of society, so please give them a break.

[Tracii G]

Deebra I dress as you described and I get accepted 90% of the time.
I'm not sure why you have trouble with the concept that you can dress however you want and go anywhere.
Have you ever thought maybe its you not every one else.
The gay stereotyping wasn't very nice but we get what you mean.

[Helen_Highwater]

Deebra,

The reason lesbian women are able to go about their daily business presenting in the way you describe is down to Gay movements such as Stonewall actively promoting the rights of Gay people. Being gay now for a great many no longer carries the social stigma it once did. By being out and proud as a group they have succeeded in normalising themselves as just another element of society. Yes there are still knuckle dragging neanderthals who ridicule and despise anyone Gay but for the vast majority of the public being gay is no longer an issue. It's possibly a rare thing for someone not to know a Gay person either from work or from within their circle of family, friends and acquaintances and to think nothing of it.

We on the other hand, have yet to reach that level of saturation in the public's consciousness. It's getting better partly on the back of the gay Movements success as many muggles still wrongly equate CD'ing with being Gay, partly as stories of Transgendered children make the news and partly due to members of our community going out and about and present themselves as normal, pleasant, polite, engaging people to those that they encounter.

Let's face it, life's not fair but that's no reason for we not to keep working to improve the way we're seen.

[Stephanie47]

It's all about societal norms and expectations of behavior. Society forms itself into identifiable group. Yes, there are lesbian who dress as you describe although I do not know any lesbians as you describe. The lesbians I know, one of whom is married to another woman, do not go about their lives proclaiming I am lesbian. They dress as other women. I've seen them in dresses and skirts/blouses, and, well as jeans and tops. I have heterosexual female friends who wear their hair short.

If you're identifiable as a male wearing women's clothing you are breaking societal norms and expectations of male behavior. There are many false assumptions in society pertaining to men who wear women's clothing, whether it is jeans/top/boots or dress/hosiery/heels. Many assume cross dressing men are homosexual or worse. Ignorance runs rampant. I've stated many times on the site that the vast majority of people acknowledge, whether or not there is approval that there can be same sex relationships. Most will acknowledge there are men and women born into the wrong body. Of course, there are may who view those just cited as personal choice.

On the other hand I have yet to understand why I and many others seek to wear women's clothing and yet are not homosexuals or transsexuals. Sure, I can tell someone how I feel. The comfort I feel wearing women's clothing. But, I cannot offer an explanation to the "Why" question. Maybe one day 99.99% of the populace will see you as obviously a man appearing as a woman, and will just say ho-hum. Right now I feel I am a curiosity to most people. I did not see your age in your profile. If you're young maybe you'll see it, Me? I'll be long dead and gone before it happens.

[deebra]

DaisyLawrence, I'm simply saying "How it should be". We should be able to dress and present with the same non critical acceptance as every one else. We both know "the real world" including Stacy and Tracii.

To Everyone Else, Fact is a lot of gay men dress and act different than straight males and can be recognized by this, of course some gays in the closet dress and act straight.
I have two lesbian friends that have a lot of parties with 30 or more lesbians attending, I have been to these parties and see and know how they dress, some could pass very easily as men especially older. Again some lesbian present as straight females but most don't. This is not conjecture, it is exactly as I have said. And if I see two or more women dressed as described in the post then odds are in my opinion...……………….

[Ressie]

The description of how you dress sounds like you could almost pass as a lesbian. Sometimes I think that would be easier than attempting to pass as a straight women.

All of the gay men I've seen recently are not flamboyant in the way they dress. From what I've seen, the flamboyant clothes that gay men use to wear only show up at pride parades/festivals.

[Krisi]

Current statistics (depending on who you ask and how you ask and where you are )
. 4.5% of women are lesbians
. 1.1% of men crossdress
. .3% of women crossdress


Where did you get your statistics? I really doubt they are accurate and I don't think there is a way to accurately collect statistics on those subjects. Lesbians might be honest, but crossdressers would not be.

As for the original post, if you are walking around the mall as a man with boobs, people are going to stare and think you are very strange. That should not surprise you. Men do not have boobs. Next time, leave the boobs home or go all out as a woman with a wig, boobs and hip and butt padding. And of course, shave and put on a bit of lipstick and makeup. Carry a purse.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
You keep posing very similar questions , truthfully they are difficult to answer because we don't know what you look like . Most of us know how to blend or how to stand out but asking the question relating to lesbians is a little confusing .

To me you are either out and about blending in and going about your business or you want to make a statment , perhaps you could clear these points up .

[Alice Torn]

Sad to say, but, many family people, see crossdressers as perverts, and drag queens, who pose a threat to their children. And, are totally ticked off if a crossdresser enters the womens bathroom. Especially mothers, but fathers can be ready to physically kick our butts, if they have daughters in the restroom, anf notice a CD going in, too. Be careful.

[Shybrenda]

Deebra,

I have always wanted to be passable and be able to walk out in the public eye but I till this day have not. Everyone has a different idea of what is the best way to blend in. Someday I hope that dream comes true. Good luck keep working on it.

[deebra]

O.K. I'll answer. In my post and thread #17 I'm simply saying "How It Should Be", crossdressing in the clothing of the opposite sex should be accepted just like gay and lesbian couples have been accepted. If a male likes tight girl jeans, heeled boots, girl top and thinks his presentation in girl clothes looks better and complete with female breast projection society should accept this as his choice of preferring the girl look over what is offered to males to wear. Ear rings, long hair, manicures are accepted, clothing should be too. Most likely he doesn't have C or D breasts but a lot of women don't have natural C or D's either but it's needed to complete the look. Girls wear a lot of guy clothes and look cute; let's say I'm the same size as my sister and want to dress like her, shouldn't be a problem.

Helen says in Thread 15 that gays have been accepted and society thinks nothing of it. Why not us, it's just clothing?



And I do know my limits on crossdressing in public and I do dress female from the skin out and blend, B's under a jacket and D's at home; panties always. Just saying a CD should be viewed no different than a GG wearing makeup, tinted hair, football jersey.

[Kathleen Ann Trees]

Expectations.

The female dressed more masculine has probably done it for a long time and is comfortable with their look and expects to be treated in a certain way, (not always positively) and has a comfort zone with their choice. Likewise, the public in general has seen this look (expects it) and has (generally) accepted this style.

The male dressed to varied levels of feminity is a newer cultural shift and there are a wider range of responses to this change. Some have come to expect it and many have come to accept it as a normal shift in our styles.

It's the personal expectation I find fascinating. As we dress up and out more often, as has been frequently discussed here, we build the experience and face the resulting responses. As I am a very infrequent public dresser, I'm still struggling with myself and my internal feelings. But I can also say I'm building a more accepting expectation and try to project that confidence when I'm out. It does help.

I believe most of society has come to recognize that gender expression is a growing dynamic and with it acceptance is building. There will be push back from many directions for many reasons for a long time, but we are making progress. And the more we are out there proving we can be positive contributors regardless of our gender expression, we help move the bar.

Stay positive. Be confident. We shall overcome!

[Kelly DeWinter]

Deebra, You keep asking "why" ? and saying "It should be" . It's not about the clothes, it's about Social Change, Unless something is normalized within the Social strata in which you live, the majority will always exert the maximum peer pressure over the minority. Gay and Lesbian ARE more mainstream however in segments of society it is NOT accepted despite legal protection from the Majority.

The Big question is what does the individual (you in this case) plan on doing to enact Social Change ?

[Patience]

Because it is culturally acceptable for women to generally adopt and demonstrate masculine qualities, while it is far less acceptable for men to demonstrate feminine qualities.

Just another blatant sign of the inequality between the sexes.

[Tracii G]

Not sure I buy the inequality theory but ok you can believe what you want. I have never seen the evidence but women have more latitude to do whatever than men do.
Deebra there is no use in complaining about "how it should be" because there are so many differences in opinions and you will never please everybody or agree on everything.
Then again stop complaining and get out there and dress however you want maybe you will change some minds and help the cause or acceptance.
Kind of like if you don't vote then you have no room to complain about Washington and what goes on there.
Pretty simple logic actually.

[Julia1984]

Debra. It's not ",Just clothing" though, is it? The (liberal) male hegemony can allow the female to encroach on their territory (to a degree and as long as it's within limits, c.f. Margaret Thatcher). But to actively and willingly seek to embrace and occupy the space held by the "weaker" cis sex.... well that's a whole different ball game. What we do undermines the whole concept of maleness and as such is seen by both sides of the debate as subversive.

[t-girlxsophie]

Im not making any judgement on you honestly but Walking down any street deebra,well certainly most of the ones I walk down,I'm not looking at folk and marking them as gay men,lesbians with the certainty you may do.And anyway they have fought to get the acceptance they have these days.Its going to be potentially harder for us crossdressers as being seen as a man in female clothing is of course easier to spot

Have you looked at women in the street and learned from them what you should wear to blend in and get some of the acceptance you,well really most of us crave.I believe that it's getting much better,certainly in my part of the world ,I also think its hard to judge your situation as we've really nothing to go on regarding yourself e.g, age,looks and dress sense etc perhaps you can post a pic,even from neck down and only then perhaps we can judge you better

Sophie

[Ressie]

Actually, it's hard for me to accept the way some lesbians present themselves. Many people tolerate rather than accept gender bending appearances.

The difference is that men wearing women's clothing are more likely to have fear. Fear of getting beat up by transphobic men! Beating up or harassing women is frowned on in society, so there's nothing to fear with their outrageous presentations.

[nikkiwindsor]

Life's just not fair!

[Tracii G]

I would like for deebra to post a pic of what she looks like in the clothes she says she can't wear.
I have worn nothing but womens clothes for 10 years now and why I can do it and she can't leaves me perplexed.
Others here have done the same as well but Deebra can't why is that?

[Charlotte7]

One thing that concerns me a bit with these threads from Deebra is the general encouragement that there seems to be that Deebra should post a picture. Surely, posting a picture anywhere on this site is the choice of the individual and no one else?

[deebra]

Teresa & Traci,
As I've said before I do not know how to post a pic and that is not important to me to be judged as Teresa asked. Traci congrats on wearing for ten years. The reason you can and I can't is I spent many years in the gym developing my body as a male body builder and it just doesn't go away and turn into a curvy 135 lb. female. Maybe I have just removed your perplexed. I would look like melted ice cream in a skirt and 40D's under a tight blouse SO I do the best I can with jeans and a jacket over B's. I still have a good build, but not a female one. My posts don't necessarily apply directly to me but are of a general nature on issues and subjects that affect us all(CD's). By knowing my limits that allow me to blend I am out there enjoying my feminine inner self and promoting in a way most don't recognize or embarrassing to me.

An old sailor would sign off by saying Fair Winds And Following Seas; I will sign off saying Nice Fitting Bra And Comfortable Panties.

[Teresa]

Deebra,
Ask the mods if you find it a problem or use the help section to post a picture.

My comments aren't intended to be confrontational but you ask similar questions or make similar statements but it more difficult to truthfully answer if we have nothing to base them on .

[docrobbysherry]

I really feel u in this post, deebra. Altho my figure is passable to say the least, my face is not! There's no amount of makeup that can make mine look female. :sad:

Which is why it's pointless for me to dress like u do, androgenously. I don't like the way I look trying to blend. And, it would confuse some people. Thinking I was trying to fool them. Maybe wondering if I was gay or an under cover CD? I'd just as soon them know I was old man with a nice figure that knows how to look pretty in a dress. At least from the back!:heehee: