What causes people to be transgender

[KymberlyOct]

We can debate this topic until our keyboards wear out but I thought this paper was good. It rang true to me.

I borrowed this from a friend.

You may want to read this and see if you see any of yourself in the “Group 3” descriptions...

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

The paper is Dr. Anne Vitale
Dated January 27, 2003

[Tonya Renee]

This is a great read Kymberly! I found great comfort in this article! I was a few months into therapy and really trying to figure out why I have felt like a female my whole life. I could say if there was one thing I have read that helped me get over that bridge of understanding and acceptance of myself, this article would be it. Thanks for sharing this. I actually have this saved and do a re-read sometimes. We are not alone ladies!

[pamela7]

i don't agree with the article, however well written. I have posted before, in the mists of time, about the myriad ways in which TG can emerge. They include, but are not limited to:

a) the classic lack of T at critical brain-development times in the womb - and during puberty.
b) imprinting of the mother / significant female into the baby/child
c) conditioning leading to association of female as beneficial to the self
d) overly powerful female super-ego intrusion
e) possession by a female spirit
f) female soul incarnated into a "male" body
g) a strong sequence of past lives as female
h) a transition of spiritual gender during this life
i) association into a female character in a story or film that leads to self-identifying as such
j) serving parental wishes for a child of different gender
k) compensating for imbalanced m-f conditioning in society more generally

and there are more ;-)

[Jeri Ann]

Kymberly,

The article is over 15 years old. A lot has happened since then.

In 2008 The American Medical Association determined that transsexualism is a medical condition. This decision was based on medical research and is why Medicare and some insurance companies cover treatment. The decision was based on evidence from medical research conducted in previous years, almost exclusively in European countries. Simply stated it is a female brain in a male body or vice versa. The condition, like other medical condition, occurs to differing degrees. Exactly how, why and when this happens is still to be determined conclusively. Male and female brains are different in size, structure and function.

The minutes of the annual conference of the AMA are still accessible online as far as I know. They were a year ago when I looked. The research that has been conducted in The Netherlands, Germany and Spain should be accessible still too. For this condition, environment has been ruled out. How you are raised or who influences you in what way can not change how your brain was formed in the uterus.

You can disagree, debate or discount this determination by the AMA or the conclusions of the research if you want, just don't kill the messenger. I know that I am not a product of myths, legends or hocus pocus supernatural indwelling or influence. Just sayin'.

[Devi SM]

I'll read it but for now the answer is who know?
I read some articles about some variation on genes but finally we are just chemistry and there must be the answer.
It's good to know for all those haven't accept themselves yet and those fighting with religious shame, guilt and blame.

Update:
I read a bit and I found that is outdated. More than be written in 2003 it is a know fact today that is. O longer called as an iness or disorder. They already taken for the mental disorders book.

[Teresa]

Kym,
It may be showing it's age simply because of the relabelling but so much does resonate with me .

I guess I slot into G3 apart from my childhood and teenage years and possibly into my twenties were different . My T kicked in early and was obviously the major driving force , my female side/trait was very strong so I had a mix of a pushy male side, a very pushy female side all intertwined with female clothes and sex . I found GFs who didn't mind a CDer which meant I married assuming naively that GGs were happy with my situation .

The mid life and more mature years I can fully agree with . I've often found many members hit the wall in their forties , many coming out stories appear to happen at this age , it certainly was the case for me , that was the start of the real rollercoaster ride . It also came back with a bang in my sixties , this time I knew something more permanent had to happen . I say I may not have a need for hormones but Dr. Vitale appears to suggest taking hormones is a sensible decision .

I do find it frustrating and annoying that many of us have to suffer so much for denying something so deeply entrenched in our being , it's really denying us our birthrite . I am becomming more bitter with my wife's acceptance , she should have joined me in counselling because what I have suffered for the last twenty years is mental cruelty .

[KellyJameson]

Is it possible to attach a cause when the label can be applied to the self as an identity?

Does this not than make all reasons (Causality) possible?

Cause is only possible when it is independent of people but than you enter into the paradox of people applying labels to other people.

Someone is still given the power to decide what is a transgender.

This is IMO central to why there is so much conflict around the word.

[Nikki.]

Someone was a philosophy major... :)

[KymberlyOct]

Well Ok then .... :heehee:

Before I state a few replies let me state at the outset that I did not intend or explicitly state - this is why we are transgender.
I had to come up with a title and this is what popped into my head.

I do think it is a good article and a valid theory what MAY be a significant 'cause' or maybe more appropriate - reason - that some people are transgender. I think it may be 100 years until medical science figures it out for sure. And even more importantly -SO WHAT? There is nothing wrong with it. It is who we are and it's great to be who you are.

I do think many of us wonder why we are trans, especially when first coming to acceptance of the fact. I never was bothered by it for myself. I didn't feel guilty per se I was just worried people would find out so that in and of itself is some degree of internalized transphobia. But anyway I digress.

Pamela - I think some of your theories / beliefs have merit and others I would disagree with but no need to debate which ones. I do not believe the theory in the article is the sole explanation and is simply one theory that I think has merit.

Jeri Ann - Two points I would make in response. First is that even if something is dated does not necessarily mean it is not correct. Somethings do stand the test of time. We figured out the world is round centuries ago. LOL. But I think this theory still holds water.

Second is that I actually agree with the points you make regarding the AMA and it being an issue of brain structure. I believe that actually so no need to kill the messenger. In my opinion the two positions can easily coexist and instead of being in conflict they in fact complement each other.

[ashleymasters]

THis nearly made me cry. I think so many group 1 girls get a lot of attention bc we want to transition like they do. I know I beam at transition videos of trans women who seem to become such perfect women. I feel so stuck and confused about which parts of me are defense mechanisms and which parts are real. It’s very tough.

[KymberlyOct]

Being trans is tough. IMO it gets tougher when you start trying to understand it. But I think that understanding is necessary for most of us to accept ourselves.

Again, IMO don't get too hung up on the handful of gorgeous transsexuals - it is a nearly unobtainable goal for most of us. I am always honest here. I have to admit - it bothers me too. But I am working on it.

The way I am trying to be at peace with my appearance is to remember that all women including cis women come in all shapes and sizes and some are classically pretty and some are not. The same is true with transwomen. Whether it be from fortunate genetics or surgery it is important for us to remember that our appearance is not the measure of our worth.

[Maid_Marion]

I did things I thought would improve my appearance from a very early age. Sitting up straight. Not eating too much. Doing things for exercise.

A decade ago I intentionally varied my weight to see what would look best.

[kimdl93]

An echo on the subject of beauty.... what we generally recognize as beauty rare enough. Think about the men and women you work with or otherwise interact with on a daily basis. Most of us are NOT stunningly beautiful. Most, I’d say are nondescript, self included. Men and women alike bemoan the fact that they are not the perfect exemplars of attractiveness. It’s futile. We can be compelling, interesting and comfortable without perfection.

to the OP, the article summarized research pointing to likely physiological/developmental causes of gender variation. Although it’s a bit dated, the research continues to point in that direction. The AMA position has to do with treatment, not origins.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Ive posted that article many times..

to me its not about all the medical and political issues around DSM's and changes to what is known and beleived over the last 40 years

It's the story of that one person that lived a male life, invested in a male life, repressed her nature...and what happened...it was like i was reading something i could write
Reading about how her trans feelings were experienced and having Dr Vitale opine with all its warts, I was devastated with an insight I never had before.

for the first time in my life i experienced something that actually resonated with my experience... i didnt know anybody like me...i didnt talk to anybody like me...i didnt really know there was anybody like me...
but there it was....

that's why the article matters

I didnt (and dont) care whether its viewed as a disease, disorder, etc....it was just the expereince of that person...

and then when the paper went on to talk about even older people and how all that could be done for them was to mitigate the distress.... that was it... i felt like i would die in regret and I knew what i had to do...

even today we know "its never too late" ...that was certainly not the common wisdom 20 years ago....

anyway...don't get caught up in the medical details and obvious issues with the paper....they dont matter as much as the people she is talking about

[Cheryl T]

Thank you for that enlightening article.
I seem to fall into the "Senior" category as described and the statement about simply removing a mustache rang very true with me.
I have always felt all this was much more than just about the clothing, but also felt trapped in the path I have chosen.

It seems that I will be relegated to my present state for the duration. Medical issues make it highly unlikely that any doctor would prescribe the hormones I desire as they would medically be contraindicated.

[KymberlyOct]

Kaitlyn - well said and great points - thanks.

Cheryl - EVERYTHING is contraindicated with me. I have had cancer for 7 years - 6 surgeries and a kidney removed. I have chronic heart failure - 39% ejection fraction. Anything below 50 is failure. Below 30 is disabled - so I am nearly disabled - but not.

My medical chart is a disaster. Amazingly I function normally and I visibly appear fine. But the doctors know differently.

Age or medical condition is not a reason to not live authentically. I transitioned at 55 - some do it at 75.

I am on 1/3 the normal dose of estrogen due to medical reasons. Instead of vaginoplasty I had an orchie (although I may look into zero depth)

You can transition - medically contraindicated can be managed. Whether you want to or not is an entirely different topic.

We can still make choices even if our choices become more limited.

[LeaP]

Anne Vitale’s developmental stages have nothing to do with causality. They are broad characterizations of the effects of cross-sex identity at different developmental stages. Her three groups are coping patterns.

I’m increasingly disinclined to get into causation. It’s important for medical and social policy reasons, but irrelevant to identity itself or to daily living.

Anne Vitale, BTW, referred me to my therapist. Her writings have been important to me, but I don’t particularly resonate with any of her three groups.

[KymberlyOct]

Actually I am past the entire cause/reason thing for myself - but I do think it is helpful for those that are still trying to come to terms with that to make peace with being trans. I think for many it helps them to accept themselves.

I only brought the subject up to be helpful to others and based on some replies I think it was helpful to some. To each their own.

Additional thought - I want to make sure that everyone that agrees or disagrees with the paper that I posted the link for understands my position on the subject. I am not stating that this is the one 'proof' or here it is - 'the reason' or absolute definitive conclusion.

Human psychology is a extremely broad spectrum as is gender identity. It is merely my opinion that the views expounded by Dr. Vitale have merit and ring true to me. For those that felt likewise that were unaware of these views - I am glad I provided you the connection.

To those that disagree I respect your right to your opinions.

[pamela7]

if the causation is something immutable, then there is indeed no point dwelling on it, but if it is due to in-life conditioning, then that can be undone - and while I am not recommending "conversion therapy" in the slightest, I do feel that some people might find peace in resolving post-birth conditioning, and perhaps it might account for that small % of transition reversals that happen.

[kimdl93]

I fully appreciate those who are more interested in dealing with their personal reality than speculations about cause. And I also see a value in considering if the origins are developmental vs experiential. That insight may be critical to meeting the individual’s needs-from a clinical perspective. Perhaps, even speculations about origin can help a person attain a greater measure of self awareness.

Certainly, this has been true for me. I suppose I could briefly describe my own self inquiry as having evolved from simple confusion to what is ‘wrong’ with me, to how do I live with this. I’m still struggling a bit with that last question, but it feels like progress.

[Aunt Kelly]

The best explanation that disciplined research as come up with is that we are TS because of in utero conditions. There are differences between male and female brains, but beyond relatively gross anatomical differences, there is much that we have yet to learn about the more subtle neurological things that define our gender identity. The work continues.

While conditioning (nurture) can have a profound affect on us, the aforementioned correlation of brain "type" with gender identity is compelling in it's constancy. All the speculation and philosophizing may be an agreeable diversion, it's not really getting us closer to understanding.

[KymberlyOct]

The best explanation that disciplined research as come up with is that we are TS because of in utero conditions. There are differences between male and female brains, but beyond relatively gross anatomical differences, there is much that we have yet to learn about the more subtle neurological things that define our gender identity. The work continues.

While conditioning (nurture) can have a profound affect on us, the aforementioned correlation of brain "type" with gender identity is compelling in it's constancy. All the speculation and philosophizing may be an agreeable diversion, it's not really getting us closer to understanding.

I actually believe in this general assumption - If it was childhood causes why for example is my brother cis-gender? Just an anecdotal example. I do believe there may be many causes/factors/reasons but I think (IMHO !!!!) that the one above is the most significant.
I had a very typical life ( other than wishing I was a girl ) before the age of 18 - It's after that time that it went really good and really bad.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

as of now, we can't be sure

I would be very surprised if factors out side of of nature caused this.....maybe biology (intersex condition of brain), or in utero hormone or developement issues were the cause

if somebody is converted by their parents somehow or a traumatic event I'd have no "issue" with living life as you see fit, but I'd also have some kind of feeling that it is fundamentally different than what I am and what I went through]

[pamela7]

I'd like to throw in a thought experiment here, if I may?

Speaking for myself, I have found that Testosterone is literally toxic to me, and Estrogen feels SO right.

So, what if, given the in-utero conditioning of the presence of T or not, if T were missing during brain formation, then the attractors locked into the neurology are for E, whereas when the T is present, it locks in the neurology for receiving T. This would then explain the biological TS experience of what is right and wrong, chemically, for the gender identity experience.

If we consider this the primal conditioning, then we can allow that the NB variations are then the nurture+nature combination of life events that shape the preferences that emerge, respecting that there's nothing much substantially between activities, just that, an E-person wishes to be experienced and to live as an E, and T as a T. Then we can see the straight CIS person is likely uncomprehending of the TS needs, and then the culture defines the acceptance.

Food for thought, for me at least.
xxx

[Anne K]

I’m a big believer in past lives. Have had some seriously intense past life regressions. So, I’m going throw out a wild reason: Past Life Bleed Through. It’s kind of like an old coat of paint bleeding through the new coat. Since a major premise of past lives is that your soul lives each life to learn a spiritual lesson. Perhaps, we are learning a lesson?

Dr. Brian Weiss is the authority on this. His workshops are very interesting.

[LeaP]

Just remember that some paint removers can cause serious damage ...

[Carolina]

I actually liked reading the article, even if it is a bit outdated. Like many others, several of the traits of the G3 group resonate strongly with me.
Does anyone have links to other more recent papers on the subject? I want to complete my therapist analysis with some background info.