Nature or Nurture?

[Wildaboutheels]

For most "adults", exactly where they find themselves after about age 15 or so is the result of their journey. All that has happened to them in their JOURNEY to that point. Most always some combination of Nature AND Nurture.

How many here can say beyond any shadow of a doubt that NURTURE had nothing to do with where you are now? Parents wanted a girl but had you, 5 sisters but no brothers, 5 brothers and 5 sisters BUT the sisters were always treated better (in your mind anyway) The list could go on and on.

Maybe YOU were a first child, last child or ONLY child?

[CynthiaD]

I like thinking about what makes me behave the way I do. Is it in my genes? Is it the way I way I was raised? Sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other. But most often, it's "none of the above." I behaved that way because I wanted to, and I have no one to blame but myself. Free choice trumps both nature and nurture,

[Robertacd]

Well I was the second of two boys. My mom always said that she was happy to have only boys, because little girls whine and cry too much.

As I grew up I could sense that in many ways my mom also hated men, and only really needed men for what they were good for. Basically providing and sex I guess...

I spent my life knowing that I will never measure up to her as long as I am a man.

[Christina Page]

Here's an interesting case study on Nature vs. Nurture...

Identical twin boys; so they have the same Nature AND the same Nurture
Yet at age 3, one of them asks "Mommy, when do I get to be a girl?". She knew at this early age that she was supposed to be a girl. She has since grown up and is a fully transitioned transwoman who is now an actress. Her name is Nicole Maines and she plays Nia Nai on the Supergirl TV show.

Her twin is cis-gender. So why would 2 twins with the same genes and upbringing be so different? I don't know, but I find it very interesting.

[Stephanie47]

When science finally decides to research the entire genetic code as it relates to the entire spectrum from straight to gay and everything between, it will come down to dna. Reading scientific articles it seems there is a gene relates to almost every quirk someone may have. Some are effected by caffeine in coffee while others have a hot cup of joe every night before retiring. Latest articles say it is genetics. So it goes with almost everything.

Yes, my mother did say on occasion I was suppose to be a girl because I had an older brother. The perfect family; husband, wife, son and daughter. Surprise! I grew up rough and tumble. I got in trouble all the time. I got my ass whipped. I was sent to the principal's office. I was rebellious. But, I was in the national honor society in school. I went to the best public high school and college in NYC. I was an combat infantryman in Nam. I was 99.99% pure male as society would like to have their men.

But, puberty settled in. I was drawn to my mother's clothing. It started with her nylon slips. I had no sisters until I was twelve. I had four male cousins. I did not play with the girls on the block. It was baseball, football, total guy stuff. What clicked? Why did puberty turn the switch on?

I know others on this site were dressed by their mothers or aunts or cousins when young. It may have been playful or for punishment. But, how many did not go down the road. My wife's cousin had a daughter who is transitioning to male. My brother's granddaughter seems to be headed that way too. From birth both have acted as one would expect a male to act.

As counselor I see for combat related issues offers each person has some component of dna of the opposite sex. It is stronger in some than others. I suspect she is right. I function totally as a male without any angst. However, on occasion Stephanie seems to arise. Fortunately both seem to coexist without any difficulty.

I have another thought on the issue which has nothing to do with nature or nurture.

[Vicky_Scot]

100% Nature for me.

[Aunt Kelly]

The most conclusive research (though it is hardly that) has been done on the TS population. Nature is the clear winner. For the CD population, there is an almost complete dearth of research. I participated in the pilot of the first such study in many years (according to the researchers). Though I no longer qualify, I look forward to it going public.

[ClosetED]

The limited science suggests it is both - as the identical twins show it is not purely genetic. But exactly what environment is conducive is unknown- Why some start pre-puberty and others not until they are in their 50's. I think it is likely some form of low physical self-esteem and seeing GGs having an easier time.
Hugs, Ellen

[AllieSF]

Definitely nature and living life and taking things as they come. Though, my Mom let my hair grow really long when I was young, long enough that a complaining neighbor cut it shorter without my Mom's permission! My Mom stopped talking with that neighbor after that.

[Tracii G]

What information are you trying to gather?
Just not getting the point of your question.
What difference does it make if you were the last or first child born?

[phili]

Seems to me that nurture sets the stage for crossdressing.

Nature comes into it for those of us who want to feel a wider range of our native feelings than is available in the 'nurturing' conditions. Note: TS folks have made the point that there is also a level of comfort with ones own sexual anatomy that is separate from nurture- so their feelings are not an outcome of early childhood nurture, and are 'nature'.

But I and other crossdressers who are doing it because dressing offers a path to desirable feelings are conditioned by the separation of the sexes and the symbolic value of clothes and behavior and grooming - i.e. culture [=nurture].

(Imagine a world where male and female are treated exactly the same and grooming expectations are equal [=nurture] Males and females seeking each other would have to take a little longer to be sure of someone's sex. but there would be nothing that could be defined as crossdressing. Makeup and dresses and coquettish or compliant, or strong, capable behavior etc would then be used by everyone per their desired way of dealing with their circumstances [=nurture]. )

Yes gender signals generally are for the evolutionary purpose of mating relationship- and secondary sex characters like beards or soft skin are determined by DNA. But it can be shown easily that the desire for dresses is not determined by DNA, but by culture/nurture rules that separate the sexes in fundamental ways.

With that separation goes a lot of our personality. So to put it poetically-

"We CD because we miss smiling." [ Check out the Boy v Girl Mode pics here ! ]

[Teresa]

Wild...,
I can't speak for everyone but being born with slightly different wiring is my driving force , wherever the female trait come from it's a very powerful force .

I really can't say anything in my early childhood induced me to crossdress , it was part of early puberty so became an integral part of me .

I'm not sure if nuture has anything to do with late starters , what is the trigger that hits a middle aged guy ? I can't fully understand it but it must be as hard to accept at that age when you've lived half your life comfortably in male mode .

Phili,
I personally can't go along with that , the clothes didn't mean that to me , the first item that attracted my attention was a shapely swim suit , something in my brain at a young age saw it as a female form and it wanted sex with it , The problem was I knew nothing about sex but I was still being driven , so it was all nature to me .

[docrobbysherry]

At 15 I didn't know shite from Shinola! :eek:

At 25 I realized how ignorant and naive I was at 15.:heehee:

At 45 I realized how ignorant and naive I was at 25.:doh:

I began dressing out of the blue at age 50+.:battingeyelashes:

Now, at 75 I don't remember how ignorant and naive I used to be!:brolleyes:

[michelleddg]

Baby, I was born this way. Hugs, Michelle

[Taylor186]

That I am a crossdresser: nature. How I choose to express my crossdressing: nurture.

[Rhonda Jean]

Nature AND nurture for me.

[GracieRose]

Definitely nature for me.
I recall my desire to do all things girl was already strong at the age of 5 (kindergarten). I don't recall much before then.
My parents must have noticed it, because the nurturing (and punishment) that I received was directed towards keeping me away from all things feminine.

[Cynthia_0101]

Firmly on nature. I was not raised at all to like anything feminine, just something I acquired.

[Lana Mae]

Preschool me never got the dress I asked for so I guess Nature would be my answer! Hugs Lana Mae

[kimdl93]

We will all have to wait for definitive answers, but nature seems to be well in the lead. However, within nature’s influences are likely to be genetic and epigenetic factors, along with possible influences of hormones and environmental agents present at various times during gestation.

[Lana Mae]

To add to my answer: Only child with three older sisters who died at or shortly after birth! Maybe my survival was effected by me being male! Think that one over all you deep thinkers! LOL So why would I want anything to do with femininity? More food for you deep thinkers! Share I'd like to hear your answers as this seems to be nature to me! Hugs Lana Mae

[Confucius]

Nature and nurture are not mutually exclusive. I believe I could have been genetically predisposed and then with the right triggers (nurture) the crossdressing just seems right.

In my case, my mother was looking forward to a daughter when she had my older brother. I was her second pregnancy and my mother did everything possible to ensure her second was a girl. I understand that she prayed and used positive thinkings, and then I was born. I was a disappointment for my mom. However she didn't have to wait long. When I was just six months old my mother found herself pregnant again. The third time proved the charm as she gave birth to my sister. My mother said it was the happiest day of her life, and my sister became my mother's pampered little princess. I grew up thinking that my mother would have loved me more if I was born a girl. I was envious of all the attention my sister got, and grew up believing that all parents preferred girls. Girls were smarter, better looking, and never caused any trouble to parents. Being a boy was a handicap. So I recall crossdressing when I was three years old...

As a child I had gender dysphoria, but I grew out of it by the time puberty started. However, it wasn't until I was in high school before I realized that not all parents prefer daughters. In college I first heard of "male privilege" but I couldn't wrap my mind around it.

So I was a middle child. My perspective was that my mother favored my sister. However whenever I mentioned this to my mom, she strongly denied it. My mother always believed that she treated her sons no differently from my sister. So was my gender dysphoria really nurture? Perhaps I was predisposed, genetically, to want to be treated as a daughter.

[Cassandra Lynn]

Since the nurture side (or environmental if you wish) of gendering happens after we are born, and my early life suggests no reason for me to show such interest in femininity at age 5, it seems something happened in the womb. While I haven't read every piece of research, I've seen enough to agree with the overriding opinion that it's Nature.

It is interesting though to hear stories that seem to suggest such strong nurture components for some, but the skeptic in me wonders if there isn't some scientific reason that actually points back to the womb.
And yes, i'm speaking mostly about truly trans-folk, the occasional CD types I can see where being dressed by a family member could hold on.

Cass

[Wildaboutheels]

Some mighty interesting input thus far ladies. Is this a good time to ask?

How many of you have brothers or sisters who are CDers of some flavor? IFFFFF you have NOT told a single relative, (or friend or even one person) what on earth makes you think THEY would tell YOU?

Every one of us is unique. Even identical twins will have all kinds of differences, mannerisms, tastes in clothes, mates, choice of car. The list is endless. Even when both had (apparently) almost the exact same combination of Nature/Nurture. EVEN when both came from the SAME egg. (In the case of identical twins)

[kimdl93]

‘Mom always liked you best’, ...popular comedian and gifted yo-yo man, and suspected cross dresser, Tommy Smothers.

[michelleddg]

Hold on there Ms. Kim. Tommy Smothers a suspected cross dresser? I have never heard of that in any way, shape or form, and Google produces nothing. What is your basis for saying so?

"I fell in a vat of chocolate..."

[GretchenM]

Behavioral geneticists are hot on the trail of such things as transgender, but no firm conclusions yet. As all psychological behavior has some of its foundation in genetics, clearly genetics is involved. But nurture is also important as that provides the fine tuning of the foundation established by DNA.

In the last 2 or 3 years with the advent of genome wide analysis it has been found that the cumulative effect of lots and lots of tiny mutations, each of which is of essentially no identifiable consequence, can produce variations in the ideal, non-mutated genetic configuration. One paper found that our gender identity, traits and characteristics involve a bit more than 3,500 genes working together in a complex network. They also found that 48 genes seemed to be involved in producing various amounts of transgender behavior by modifying the cisgender genomic combination. Thus, in a sense, transgender would be a modification of cisgender produced by accumulated effects from a number of tiny mutations. Environment (nurture) is a strong modifier, but does not appear to be the source of the behavior.

This might also explain why many trans people continue to show certain degrees of cisgender behavior patterns mixed with the traits and characteristics that show some degree of gender reversal. Nothing conclusive or even close, but genetically these studies are being quite fruitful in explaining us or at least a large part of us. However because the whole thing is a complex and dynamic network between thousands of genes it can exhibit almost limitless variety that makes firmly tying down any conclusions next to impossible. Thus it quickly becomes probabilistic. In other words, it may create a complex spectrum with regard to the population as a whole and a highly dynamic spectrum for the individual. Sound familiar? That is what I feel most of the time. Hmmm.

[Lacey New]

I have my own somewhat less than scientific theory that cross dressing is a combination of both nature and nurture. I think that the species is naturally given the urge to mate. And even with a small child, there is a curiosity about the opposite sex. We soon learn that clothing and especially underwear, panties, bras, slips , etc not only represent the “opposite” sex but those items are closest to those wonderful intimate body parts that we are most curious about. As a result, examining and ultimately putting on things like bra and panties was most likely very sexually exciting. I’ll bet that a substantial number of members on this site masturbated wearing panties in their early teens. And once we experienced that pleasure, we repeated it to the point where it became a learned response like Pavlov’s dog. Cross dressing became a substitute for being intimate with a woman. But here is the question. Most of us eventually wind up finding a wife or girlfriend and enter in to a long term relationship. So why do we continue our cross dressing? Theoretically, we would no longer need to use women’s clothing as a substitute for being intimate with an actual female. This is where the nature thing comes in to play and I don’t know what it is. I don’t know whether it is a gene that causes a predilection to cross dressing or if it is simply a gene that causes people to engage in addictive behavior, drinking, smoking, gambling or even cross dressing. Without some greater research which will probably never happen, we may never know for sure.

[Jean 103]

Now, at 75 I don't remember how ignorant and naive I used to be!:brolleyes:

Ditto, although as of today I'm only 63.

[Charlotte7]

Nature gave it to me when I was aged four, and ever since I have happily nurtured it.

[BrendaPDX]

Nature for me!

[phili]

Wild...,
I can't speak for everyone but being born with slightly different wiring is my driving force , wherever the female trait come from it's a very powerful force .

I really can't say anything in my early childhood induced me to crossdress ...Phili,
I personally can't go along with that , the clothes didn't mean that to me , the first item that attracted my attention was a shapely swim suit , something in my brain at a young age saw it as a female form and it wanted sex with it , The problem was I knew nothing about sex but I was still being driven , so it was all nature to me .

I had a similar experience with seeing my sister's underwear at age 4 or 5- not having the y front was a huge breakthrough and I grabbed them.

I did then put them on and got an erection and that seemed perfect to me. I finally realized I have a feminine sexuality, but at that early age all I understood was that being able to extend my penis was not the important fact.

In this view clothes and such are all forms of nurture- nurture of our nature!

[kimdl93]

Hold on there Ms. Kim. Tommy Smothers a suspected cross dresser? I have never heard of that in any way, shape or form, and Google produces nothing. What is your basis for saying so?

"I fell in a vat of chocolate..."

Busted! Total fabrication on my part! Of course that doesn’t eliminate the possibility that tommy smothers might be a cross dresser!

[Becky Blue]

Completely totally nature, I had a very normal childhood in terms of how my parents brought me up, they had zero influence on me deciding at age 5 to play pretend i was a girl games. They neither encouraged nor discouraged me, i was just left alone to play. I think I outgrew the game by age 7 or 8. But it was certainly a sign of things to come later.

[Ressie]

Cross dressing never occurred to me until I started watching the Smothers Brothers show. :)

No, I think for me it's a combination of nature and nurture. Maybe the nurture part just confirms what nature had come up with? At 4 years old my mother had me wear my sister's coat on Halloween because I had no costume. Was there something about my personality that contributed to that decision?

I'm the youngest sibling. Brother, 5 years older was quite the bully toward me. Sister, 3 years older had nice clothes! There are other childhood memories I have that make it clear why I turned out the way I am. I was quite the sissy as a child - because I was the youngest influenced by my siblings/parents or just born this way? Both are factors.

[Stacy Darling]

The nature of our soul or the nurture of some society?

[Carla Bell]

I believe a combination

[Taylor186]

There are some here who suggest that if a man wears women's clothes he is a crossdresser. (Though, I don't set the bar that low.)

For those who do I offer Exhibit A: Tommy Smothers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkxLMnRajBI
300300

[Beverley Sims]

Definitely a little bit of both to make the mixture right.

[sometimes_miss]

The popular answer will always be nature, because no one wants to admit that they are responsible in any way for crossdressing. The information that you can find in my bio says that for me, it was all nurture. However, everyone is entitles to their opinion. All I know for sure, is that there are many things that can lead up to the feelings which induce the behavior. There are perhaps a hundred threads about this, so the information is out there to read.

[BostonBrenda]

Its possible I was born this way but my mother sending me to school at age ten with a pair of her pantyhose under my pants triggered it all

[Stephanie D]

Nature, nurture, or not exactly sure what...
I'd say that's where I am!
I'm in the the what ever column...
What's a label anyway?
All I know is that I feel a certain way from the time I wake up, to my daily on-goings, till I go to bed.
Changes all the time...
And I don't always feel better one way versus another.
If I have to "categorize", I'd say, I'm ME!
All messed up, crazy, and "normal" at the same time.
I'm happy to figure out that I don't have to fit ONE classifications at all all times.
Hoping all are happy and wishing all a good night!!!

[Michellebej]

Born this way. I can not remember a time not existing. I do remember having to modify my behavior to make my father and grandfather happy. Nothing drastic mind you. And I never felt forced to do it. But I have always felt more like a girl pretending to be a boy...and a rather successful one at that!