Questions from the wives of my SO's social group

[char GG]

What difference is there to someone's overall life as men or women?
How would the overall quality of life be different depending on what gender they are?

As humans, we all need food, shelter, some means of support/job, and usually a hobby or two. Of course, the answers given by the social group centered on what clothes they could/would wear. That obvious answer is not really what the wives were trying to find out. I offered to put the question to this forum to find out what your opinions are. I'll pass along your answers at our next social gathering.

[Robertacd]

Well there's a thing called "male privilege" for instance. We may not always recognize that we are benefitting from it, but I bet we would miss it if it suddenly was not there.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Men communicate in grunts, Women communicate in sentences.

I don't buy the "male privilege" thing, All social groups benefit from herding as a social group, It's function of social interactions, not a privilege bestowed at birth.

My apologies roberta, did not mean to step on your post.

[Macey]

On one level or another, menfolk are always in competition. It's part of the social structure, and one that probably predates developing speech all of those millennia ago. From swapping stories and jokes: " Wait … I've got one better!" To vying for position in the 'tribe'. It is ingrained, and then socially reinforced. MOST often, it is expressed in healthy, affirming ways … no matter the 'pecking order', a man will have a chance to shine at SOMETHING among his peers, sometimes in negative ways if the competition is conducted dishonorably, or if the herd mentality goads the 'tribe' into bad behavior.

[Stephanie47]

There really are a lot of variables which create subsets. There is discrimination against short men and bald men unless they have money. Then it seems everyone fawns over them. Tall men dominate in the pecking order. There is rampant discrimination towards overweight women. Young attractive women (arm candy?) are viewed as desirable.

If your social group of women is equal in stature to their husbands/male companions perhaps differences may center on the clothes one wears. If they are subservient to men I think they have a problem. I know many women like status of being married to a wealthy man and enjoy a life of leisure. My world is not like that. The women in my family have been encouraged to venture forth and be educated. Sister went to college. Daughter went to college/masters in social work. Wife went to college, teacher. Granddaughter is a college freshman (freshwoman?, doesn't sound right). All are making a better quality of life.

Women who sit back on their heels end up being at the mercy of others. I encouraged all my female relatives to be educated. Then you are not joined at the hip to a man until he decides to dump you or abused you or cheat on you. Have to stop before I get time out.

[Robertacd]

Kelly, I am talking in a broad sense. For instance "victim blaming" in rape cases. You always hear things like "She was dressed provocatively", like that somehow excuses the rapist.

Along those same lines, unwanted pregnancy. Why are women told to keep their legs shut if they don't want children, but us men are never told to keep it in our pants?

[kimdl93]

I'm kinda slow... what were the wives really getting at by their questions? My only thought is that they were asking why clothes should matter, regardless of the gender context. Of course, probably shouldn't matter and probably individuals like myself shouldn't need a particular type of clothing to express anything at all about myself. Of course, that darned WHY keeps coming up and no one has a satisfactory answer for the frustrated spouse of a crossdresser.

[ellbee]

What difference is there to someone's overall life as men or women?
How would the overall quality of life be different depending on what gender they are?

To me, being a man means...


- I have to register with Selective Service at the age of 18 so I get to be involuntarily drafted to fight & possibly die for this country -- if I don't register, I could get thrown in prison or fined $250K, as well as lose access to a whole bunch of programs & benefits such as financial aid, job training & federal employment;

- I'm way more likely to get injured or die in combat;

- I'm way more likely to get injured or die on the job;

- I'm way more likely to get screwed over in divorce court;

- I'm way more likely to lose custody of my children;

- I'm way more likely to be homeless;

- I'm way more likely to die young;

- I'm way more likely to commit suicide;

- I'm way more likely to have to serve a much longer prison sentence for the same exact crime;

- I'm way more likely for the police to side against me in any kind of situation where they're summoned, even if under false pretenses;

- Half the population thinks I'm a potential kidnapper, rapist, pedophile & murderer, and as such, am immediately & automatically treated as all of those, denying me even a simple everyday conversation as a normal human being

- I'm that much less likely to graduate from high school, to go to college, or to get a degree, simply because of what I have between my legs;

- I have no say in whether or not I want my child to be aborted, or to be put up for adoption, or to raise it myself.



I could keep going on & on about how great it is to being a man, but I think I'll stop for now, thanks.

[Jean 103]

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer.

What do we know? Well they all have SOs and they wear women's clothes.

I would be willing to bet that when you get down to it, each one is different. Also I bet that few if any can answer the why question, other than because it feels good.

Don't you normally do things you like and avoid things you don't.

Your not trying to say that men and women think the same?

Women are closer to their feelings generally speaking.

The women I rent a room from told me she was hesitant on renting a room to a transgender person because they are so emotional .

Yes I am, it's the way I have always been.

Really the only question you should want answered is do they want to transition or live full time as a woman. They may not know, and/or the answer could change with time.

I know that this is something that you likely did not sign up for. I admire you for having the courage to work through this.

[mykell]

im not sure what you are asking from us, we who identify as CD, TG, NB, will surely have a prejudiced answer as most here dont identify as a CIS male, also when conducting social groups one is expected to receive a certain amount of discretion when they participate,


this part of the forum is open to the general public, but if you have permissions have at it, i think you may need to tweak what you expect from us. but ill take a stab at it.


What difference is there to someone's overall life as men or women?:

aside from medical treatments and hygiene, none, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.....our insecurities, our accomplishments.....our secret desires. we will all have faults as well as strengths.


How would the overall quality of life be different depending on what gender they are?:

this is the hard one....our gender at birth is determined by our genetics and by the parochial thinking of folks and views who migrated here from Europe, in the tribal structure that existed here before that we were cherished as people here and other parts of the world. third gender, two sprits, and other terms depending where you were from, as it stands today i hid my "self" from plain site with a societal expectation that gender conforming folks had. they don’t have the need or interest to understand for the most part as they believe they are normal and we have deviated from that “norm”.

when i venture out into the wilds as my true "self" i am subjected to sneers and crude comments from the ones who cant, wont, or believe they can take some time to educate themselves on things they dont understand. many who come here in the beginning and join in with like minded peeps to educate ourselves about our “self"s are doing so for the first time in they’re lives, we then must educate ourselves to not hate what we are after thinking we were somehow less than what society believes is the social norm. self loathing and shame are prominent feelings from those who share here for the first time.


thats about all have to say about that for now, hope it answered those questions….

[Meghan4now]

Mmmm, Some interesting answers. I feel that each gender has its own privileges and prohibitions. I suspect the question may arise from women trying to understand why men would adopt a woman's experience. If it is not for sensual reasons, then what? Unfortunately the current narrative suggests that a women's experience is repressed in all cases. But there are some real advantages to the female experience in our culture, mostly less tangible.

First both genders have unique group bonding experience s, each of which is really awesome. Secondly, our physical expressions can be quite different. Touch is my biggest language of love. Women can express that easier without being treated like a creep. But more agressively expressions are also more acceptable for men.

I think there are plenty of social reasons one might enjoy having a cross gender expression. I for one really like who I get to be in my female expression. Strangely it is partially a feeling of satisfaction in feeling like I'm part of that group identity.

[Jean 103]

Can you answer a couple of questions for me?

I didn’t catch that you are a moderator.

Don’t you read all this stuff? Don’t you know how different they all are?

Are you saying you can’t see that women’s and men’s lives are completely different?

Is this an on line group or do you meet face to face?

The TG support group that I attended is open to SOs. Actually it is open to anyone. You could just ask your question there.

I’ll give you a simple example.

Women hug,

Most all my friends are GGs. I have been accepted into their group. Still I always let them make the first move.

My close guy friends also treat me as a women and hug me.

This didn’t happen to me as a guy. Ok it has happened a few times, what can I say people like me, still it's not the same.

I have been living as a women for about three years now. This is a statement I would only make here to show where I’m at with all this. I would never say this to any of my friends as I feel it would be insulting.

[Sallee]

great answer to the question much truth in it I think

[Melissa in SE Tn]

I’m with Kim. Surely there are more profound questions that SO’s of a cd social club can pose? In the alternative, it’s great that cd wives get together to draw support from each other.

[Violetgray]

My goodness, this really seems to have touched a nerve for some people! A bit of defensiveness as far as what it means to be male!

Still, if I had to illustrate what I think is a major difference in how women and men exist:

It wasn't until I was walking home alone as Violet and had a stranger follow me and try to push his way into my house that I really started to reexamine what it meant to exist in the world as male or female.

Women generally exist in a world where half the population is stronger than them. There exists a level of danger just to daily life that say, I never had to think about walking about as male.

Sure, the world is plenty dangerous for men too but I would say that danger exists in a woman's life in a way that isn't necessarily true for men.

[Rhonda Jean]

Char,
If I understand what they're getting at, this is more of a question for the TS section. It's there that it's said that it's not about the clothes.

To me, it's not just about the clothes, but it's the clothes (hair, makeup, overall appearance) that allows me to interact with people as a woman, to go places and do things that a man typically wouldn't. If it was completely not about the clothes (and I believe there are those for which it is not), then one could transition invisibly.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Violet;

I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. In society Men are generally predator and women prey ( I shudder at some of the things that have been written in the news about how women fall victim to men, Today's Lyft story actually made me cry )

I've lived and worked in and around Baltimore for many years and the city can certainly be a hostile to single women. Be safe when you are out and about. Don't get me wrong I do love Baltimore it does have its charms.

[JulesLynne]

Male privilege isn’t what it used to be. I’m the father of 2 boys and increasingly concerned about their educational opportunities. Their school has copious “girl power” posters. Girls are encouraged to get into STEM. There’s a ton of female mentoring programs - doctors, scientists, pilots, etc. There’s not a single equivalent program for boys. If my son wore a “boy power” T-shirt to school he’d be suspended. And every single one of my coworkers - men, women, black, white, Asian, and anything in between - have all recognized that their sons are having a much more difficult time getting into college than their daughters, even with the same grades, SAT scores, and extracurricular activities.

How many of us have ever hired a male babysitter or nanny? How many of us have ever hired a female plumber or roofer? How many people talk to their daughters about going into a trade school instead of college?

My point in all of this is that 30 or 40 years ago, our culture was different and society assumed that men would all enter the workforce and women would mostly enter the home. We did a great job in opening up opportunities for women, but I think the pendulum has swung a little bit too far in the opposite direction to the point that we collectively assume that the male advantage that we had 30 years ago still applies to our 6 year old kids. It doesn’t.

[Sherrii]

After reading all the posts so far I have to say about the "male privilege" thing, it may be there but then there is the list of things that ellbee brings up. And if you think about it there are a few things that could go on a "female privilege" list. If you want to understand how and why things are the way they are and about the differences between men and woman find a copy of The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris. Some folks don't think he has it right but over maybe some 40 years since I read the book a lot of it has seemed accurate to me when I think of the way males and females act and what they are looking for in life. Sherrii

[phili]

Char,
Can you share here your women's group's ideas about those two questions?

Here is the counterquestion I would pose to your group:
I am a crossdresser,which by definition means I see clothes as a critical element- doorway to a set of experiences that I want and that seemed to be reserved for women, generally. That can validly be criticized- since for every item I might cite- like being able to cry in sympathy- one could point out that men can do that. Every item about being a person can be shared by men or women in certain settings, at least, and once we escape childhood training. Women can be brave firefighters or sadistic prison guards, and men can be emotionally sensitive, and excellent caregivers, or dependent and compliant partners.

Interestingly, despite this fact being obvious- people are generally much more upset if a man wants to wear clothing designated for and designed for women, than if his behavior falls into what is customarily thought of as typical of women.

Where do each of your friends draw the line for acceptable roles and behavior , and dress, of men and women?

I think the answer to this goes directly to why, even though we understand that men and women are fundamentally equal in every respect- we separate them and treat and train them differently- and then have some baseline rules- like men are not allowed to wear women's clothing.

What difference is there to someone's overall life as men or women?
How would the overall quality of life be different depending on what gender they are?

[char GG]

First, I would like to thank all of you who have replied. Obviously a lot of thought has gone into what each and every one of you have to say. The answers have gone deep into the inner workings of the male/female mind.

@Phili: The women in the group are SO's to CDers that belong to the social group, therefore, these ladies have a level of acceptance that some CDers do not have with non-accepting SO's. Also, the group is really just a fun, social group. There is no one who claims to be professional enough to deal with deep seated gender issues. To answer your question, from what I can tell, the SO's are trying to understand is the difference between "day to day" goings on between men and women. For the sake of simplicity; both wake up, eat breakfast, get ready for their day (work, school, hobbies, work out, read, relax), buy groceries, eat lunch, more of the same afternoon activities, have dinner, upkeep on the place they live (cleaning, laundry), then many choose an evening activity which may include doing nothing more than TV or going out for a night on the town. Finally, there is sleep. So without the obvious differences in experiences regarding how males and females were raised, they wonder what difference the clothes make. One thing we do all agree on, clothes are the spice of life.

[Teresa]

Char,
I posted a reply to a smilar question a while ago .

On a daily basis there is very little difference , job sharing , single parents famillies are all in the mix etc., gender is not even considered . Before I separated I did all the cooking , most of the cleaning , washing , ironing etc ., my wife was out earning to supplement our income . Now I live alone and dress full time not much has changed apart from I'm doing it as Teresa , my gender may appear different but the jobs haven't changed .Truthfully I'm happier as Teresa , the choice of clothes to wear is much greater , that doesn't make a difference to how I do the jobs but I feel more comfortable and content wearing them .

[ClosetED]

Many good comments in the thread. Thank you Char for helping other wives understand.
As genetic males, we can not truly know what it feels like to be a female, but we know what we see happening in the society around us to those who appear female as opposed to those who appear male.
Phili makes a nice point about men who act very effeminate but dress as men and those men who dress and use other items normally associate with women. Society treats those very differently. If you want labels - effeminate homosexuals vs crossdressers.
And the question does not need to be asked of transexuals, the crossdressers who are able to live 24/7 may have the most relevant experience of how society treats them when internally they still consider themselves male.

Thoughts to bring back to them - as GGs who see how men are treated. Ellbee brings out several good statistics and situations in which males and females are treated differently. How do they greet men vs women? Do they shake men's hands and hug or peck a female? Why do they treat them differently? Because that is what we were shown to do, in most cultures. How often do they hear men compliment other men on their looks/clothes compared to women? Is it appropriate that there is the belief that women are judged more on looks than skills- no! But that is the belief and crossdressers may want to experience some of that.

If we try to imagine moving to a land where men and women were treated and could act exactly equally, I don't know if we would know how to act. How would the wives feel if all others began to treat them as men, including loss of the choice of clothes and social interactions.
Just some additional thoughts,
Hugs, Ellen

[Micki_Finn]

Kelly, I am talking in a broad sense. For instance "victim blaming" in rape cases. You always hear things like "She was dressed provocatively", like that somehow excuses the rapist.

Along those same lines, unwanted pregnancy. Why are women told to keep their legs shut if they don't want children, but us men are never told to keep it in our pants?

There’s also the fact that women still make less then men on the whole? Or the “pink tax” on women’s products? Or just the fact that men can leave the house without making sure they took appropriate anti-rape measures? If you don’t think it’s a priveldge to walk down the street and not worry about being assaulted, then you REALLY need to look into women’s experiences more.

[Seana Summer]

I think it been well covered but I would like to reinforce some of what Violet said. As a male, who is larger than average, I can walk around, even many places in Baltimore, by myself, and be left alone. There are times I wish I were 4 to 6 inches shorter and 80 lbs lighter. (I could by cloths anywhere!) But it has probably saved my butt many times I don't even know about because I look like someone to avoid on a dark street. I have noticed people crossing the street to avoid me at night. May not be completely a function of being male but it is a portion of it.

Ellbee's comments above concerning children. I agree and this is a big deal. Fathers do not enjoy the same rights as Mothers even though Fathers are increasing taking more and more responsibility. It is becoming more common for custody in divorces to be split 50/50 but certainly not in all cases. Another example: I would have loved to take parental leave when my children were born to keep them home from daycare for another 6 weeks while my wife went back to work. Reality is, men are punished for taking parental leave in many work places, even if your supervisor is a "progressive women". Yes you can document what happened, but them you fight the fight that you probably won't win anyway.

Just too many issues to vent on. Much progress has been made ....Much Still Needed........from all sides

[Kelly DeWinter]

Miki;

I listen to a lot of radio and a few years ago there was a program about an analysis on how salaries and raises are determined. I don't remember the parameters but the uptake was that men were willing to risk more to get more. In a job interview men were more likely to leave without the job if the pay did not meet their expectations. In performance reviews that same held true if the review and increase were not in line with their expectations, they were more apt to leave seek employment elsewhere. More then half were likely to leave if no annual raised were offered. The conclusion was that women were more risk adverse then men when it came to employment. I ran a consulting company for 15 years, so for me it was easy to create a compensation based on billable hours, increases and profit sharing were based on the same, Since I offered maternity leave and paternity leave equally I did not have that thorny issue. The only tough one was when an employee had to take a leave of absence doe to illness.

[Di]

Answering as a wife and long time mod here.

I have seen over the years threads about guys aggressive behavior towards a cder outand about / they are scared and shocked/ we GGs grew up always being careful / do not be alone / be careful where you park and on and on. Just recently at work a guy put his hands on me/ Iwas just at work doing my job .....why would someone presume to even do that ??? It really is how a woman have to be aware at all times. ( it was caught on camera and sorted but even at work you can’t let your guard down.

Another thing is when it comes to sex males are visual/ again posts about I dressed in my sexy nightie and my wife got mad and I was expecting her to be turned on like I was with the sight of me in my nightie -Ahhh really? The women I know get more excited by the attention you give them and are loving and caring all day and not seeing you in a nightie.
More personal note
In the beginning when I met Sher it was such an adventure and Iwanted her to experience everything she ever dreamed of ......I taught her things and we learned together. After many yrs married it really was like two women living our life and it as not a huge rush like it was in the beginning it was just our life together and it kinda was no matter how she dressed ( she wanted to stay in drab for work) she was always Sherlyn like I’m just always me ( Di) And that was wonderful.
Thanks Char for letting me answer as well.

[Jenny22]

I've said this before and I'll do it again. I am damned impressed with the insight of sisters here and how well opinions are expressed on subjects that may even be difficult to fully comprehend. I'm honored to read them!

[RADER]

This is some interesting Post. Just reading all of these great ideas, has given me much thought.
I was impressed with (DI) post. It sums up everything in a way.
My wife was OK with my dressing, but do not leave the house as to embarase her. I always kept
her wishes. I did not push the issue to often, and some times she would dress me.
I learned a lot today; thanks to all.
Rader

[susie evans]

Char / DI
First thx for the thread it is very interesting and a lot of good input

[biancabellelover]

Or just the fact that men can leave the house without making sure they took appropriate anti-rape measures? If you don’t think it’s a priveldge to walk down the street and not worry about being assaulted, then you REALLY need to look into women’s experiences more.

That is an entirely fictional "Privilege", Micki.

The fact that men "don't worry about being assaulted" is the reason why the rates of random assaults leading to murder is almost double for men than it is for women. I've written about this topic at length in other threads. The gist of it is, is that men should take exactly the same precautions that women do when going anywhere or doing anything.

Michelle.

[Rochal Tukque]

A question to your group. If you grew up knowing with every fiber of your being that there was another side to your personality and gender and you were condemned by social programming and pressure that you were not to be aloud to express that openly without discrimination and ridicule, what would your overall quality of life be?

[ellbee]

In society Men are generally predator and women prey...

Oh, I'm sure one could make the case that it's also the opposite, too.


Can & do GG's prey on men, whether psychologically, emotionally, sexually, financially, etc.? You better believe it. Plenty out there that supports that.

*How* they go about it, can greatly differ than when a man is the predator, of course.



And here's just a snippet on this topic, if I may...


Overall researchers also found men were more reluctant to report abuse by a woman.

“The idea that women can be sexually manipulative, dominant, and even violent runs counter to these stereotypes. Yet studies have documented female-perpetrated acts that span a wide spectrum of sexual abuse,” they write.

It is something Ms Stemple feels is one of the reasons it remains widely under-reported.

“There’s still this perception globally that women aren’t perpetrators of sexual victimisation,” she said.

“There’s also this perception that male victims haven’t been harmed, or they welcome it, which is far from true.

“Men report similar or roughly the same mental health outcomes as female victims.”

Ms Stemple also said society struggled to deal with the notion that men could be abused by women and that it was harder for men to be believed or to be taken seriously when they did report it.

Ms Stemple also said it was true that many didn’t report it because they don’t think they’ll be believed.

In many cases men were coerced or manipulated and felt they couldn’t report such abuse.

“Looking at all the data, I was shocked,” she said, adding abuse perpetrated by women was a huge concern.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/female-sex-predators-why-there-are-more-of-them-than-you-think/news-story/74506a6c46ee51dbfc8242dc0cc72197

[Beverley Sims]

I feel the difference between the sexes is interests, women are more into raising children and men are more interested in supporting the family they have helped create.

When dressed I will nurse someones baby lovingly and tenderly, as a man I am all fingers and thumbs over the same deal.

I can sit with a group of women and discuss womens issues but as a man I find beer and football more of a talking point.

I will browse in a shop and look at clothing for a long time dressed but as a man I only shop out of necessity or for hobby like interest.

Yes I feel more comfortable in womens company and with men I am like a duck out of water.

When I was younger I mixed it with the boys along with the other girls.

[Kelly DeWinter]

ellbee;

Good points. I know that I'm one of those people who has a blind spot when it comes to predatory women. For me it comes from having to be protective of my sisters while growing up (long story there).

Even my wife says that I am soft when it comes to women with a sob story (In my line of work you hear a lot of sad stories).

Maybe that's another difference men tend to be protectors as well.

[sometimes_miss]

Young attractive women (arm candy?) are viewed as desirable.
I've never known a man to pick a woman to be arm candy. Men pick women that we would like to have sex with. If other people happen to think she's pretty as well, fine. But to have 'arm candy' isn't ever the primary reason we choose her, and just as often, we prefer to keep her to ourselves rather than expose her to the eyes of our competition, i.e., male friends and co-workers. The media stereotypical male locker room bragging about the hot chick we scored with isn't how a lot of men behave. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never heard boys OR men talking about who and where they had sex in locker rooms or anywhere else, for that matter. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but to think it's the norm isn't correct.

Kelly, I am talking in a broad sense. For instance "victim blaming" in rape cases. You always hear things like "She was dressed provocatively", like that somehow excuses the rapist. Along those same lines, unwanted pregnancy. Why are women told to keep their legs shut if they don't want children, but us men are never told to keep it in our pants?
FWIW, my dad DID tell me to keep it in my pants, or at least make sure I use protection.
But there's a distinct slant on responsibility here: If a woman get's pregnant, it's assumed to be the man's responsibility. If a man gets VD, it's not at all the woman's responsibility. Women can unilaterally stop themselves from getting pregnant; if she doesn't want to get pregnant, there's absolutely nothing a man can to, to force the issue. The last study coming out of planned parenthood was that 95% of women who came in with supposed unwanted pregnancies were either not using any birth control at all, or not using it correctly. What does that tell us about these women? That they all wanted the MAN to be the one responsible for them.


I don't think there is a one size fits all answer. What do we know? Well they all have SOs and they wear women's clothes. I would be willing to bet that when you get down to it, each one is different.
I don't think that each person has a different reason; I think that there are groups of us who have something in common with what causes us to feel this way, but that it's going to be very hard to figure out what it is, all because of how we grew up, believing that to be feminine in any way was the most horrific, terrible thing that we could be. So when we became that, we can't accept it, and bury the causative factors so deep in our minds that they may never be discovered. What I do think, is that there is no one, single cause of why we do this.

Also I bet that few if any can answer the why question, other than because it feels good.
Then the question remains, why does if feel good? And unfortunately, most don't really want to know, judged by all the 'I was born this way' responses that always show up.

And yes, I can answer the 'why' question about myself. But it wasn't easy to figure out, and it took me decades, with a whole lot of confusion along the way. And for me, it involved numerous additive influences along the way besides the major one, so I can't imagine my exact experience being a common cause. That said, all the things that had to come together in just the right combination to make me into the person that I am, it's pretty clear that other paths to the same end result could occur as well.


The answers have gone deep into the inner workings of the male/female mind.
And so, professional psychologists or not, we all have to start learning about those deep, inner workings! Because that's the only way we're going to figure it out. But as always, be careful what you wish for (knowledge about why your mate crossdresses) because you might not like what you find out: About not just your mate, but about yourselves, as well. Most people have little or no idea about why they fall in love with a particular person, or even why they're attracted to them in the first place. Most just prefer to chalk it up to 'chemistry', or fate. But recent studies have shown that's not true at all. I refer you to a book by Timothy Perper, PhD, which explains many of the psychological things that go on in our heads during the mating rituals: https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Signals-Biology-Timothy-Perper/dp/0894950509/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1549062826&sr=1-5&keywords=the+biology+of+love



what I can tell, the SO's are trying to understand is the difference between "day to day" goings on between men and women.
It's pretty clear what the differences are; all one has to do, is start writing down each activity and experience that each sex has during a normal day. It's not really that hard do to, as I have done it many times. Start with waking up, shutting off the alarm, walking to the bathroom, etc..

One way of easing the gender identity dysphoria, is to realize that most of what we do each day is simply not gender or sex specific. Does a woman take OJ out of the fridge differently than a man? Make toast? Spread butter or jam? Chew our food & swallow? Put stamps on an envelope? Fill out forms? lock the doors? Drive to work? Park? The vast majority of what we do, is the same. Crossdressers may emphasize the differences and focus on them in order to get the temporary 'I'm a female' feeling we need to quell the GID, but on the whole, we live very similarly.

I'm guessing that the women in the group are trying to figure out what differences might make a male prefer the day to day life of a female instead of his own. And perhaps that fits into the 'the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence' type of theory, where the wife just assumes that her CD mate is looking for what might be assumed is an easier life.
But here's the wrench in that theory; It's not about the other sex's lifestyle or activities or privileges that makes it 'feel better'; it's more about feeling normal as our own self. Time and time again, I read on this very forum, about how women's clothes feel so much better than mens. And yet, from women's description of those very same clothes, we know that isn't true. Now why would there be such a divide on this concept?
Because its not PHYSICAL comfort of the attire that the crossdresser is experiencing when he wears women's clothing; it's the psychological comfort we get by feeling and knowing that we're in the correct, the female, clothes. The physical difference in tactile and visual sensations we get, are what contribute to that psychological comfort, even though they may not actually provide physical comfort at all (as seen in those of us who say we love wearing those painful heels).


So without the obvious differences in experiences regarding how males and females were raised, they wonder what difference the clothes make.
The clothes help identify us to ourselves, as either what we want to be, or already feel ourselves to be, whether that is correct or not. Think about it; don't we all choose our attire to reflect what we want express? The only difference here is, for the crossdresser, he's expressing it to himself first and foremost, the ritual of putting on all the female things and even doing it in 'the appropriate female way' being just as important. Conscious or subconscious, the self identification of 'female' is going on in a whole lot of us. The big problem is, there's a huge psychological obstacle in the way of recognizing it. So they pretend that it's just the clothes, or the feel of the fabric, etc..

The fact that men "don't worry about being assaulted" is the reason why the rates of random assaults leading to murder is almost double for men than it is for women.
It's also very telling about the ways that men resolve conflicts vs how women do. Men are way more likely to resort to violence because it's an accepted part of the male hierarchy in our society. In every group of men, each knows where he stands in the ability to fight, how much money he makes, how smart he is compared to the others, and how successful he is.

men should take exactly the same precautions that women do when going anywhere or doing anything.
Won't happen. We know that we'd be derided for being chicken or worse, sissies, for being afraid of danger. Guys are NEVER supposed to admit or even hint that we might be afraid; both other men AND women will see it as weakness.

[Kelly DeWinter]

sometimes miss

"
FWIW, my dad DID tell me to keep it in my pants, or at least make sure I use protection.
But there's a distinct slant on responsibility here:

If a woman get's pregnant, it's assumed to be the man's responsibility.
(Well yes, it takes a man's semen to fertilize an egg in a woman, unless the woman has invitro fertilization) Also men have many options including condoms)

If a man gets VD, it's not at all the woman's responsibility.,
(Hold on there cowgirl, yes it could be or it could be a gay lover, or it could be a toilet seat Some STD can last outside of the human body for up to 12 minutes)


Women can unilaterally stop themselves from getting pregnant; if she doesn't want to get pregnant, there's absolutely nothing a man can to, to force the issue.
(What are you suggestion that they use fore of will ? or a mantra ? Women throughout the ages have from time to time had an oops child. Also yes, men can and have forced the issue, through rape, which in happens too many times)


The last study coming out of planned parenthood was that 95% of women who came in with supposed unwanted pregnancies were either not using any birth control at all, or not using it correctly.
(It's hard to believe a study without some sort of reference, please provide one if possible)


What does that tell us about these women? That they all wanted the MAN to be the one responsible for them.
( That's a pretty broad statement, If that were true wouldn't it be prudent to trip up some geeky millionaire then the high school or college sweetheart ?)

You really put 99% of the responsibility on women when men also have as much if not MORE responsibility and seem to absolve men of responsibility when it comes to pregnancy.

Just one question . Why ?

[phili]

The clothes help identify us to ourselves, as either what we want to be, or already feel ourselves to be,

Beautifully said, Lexi- for this is the larger problem for all trans people. It is not just that we want to play dressup, we are feeling our gender differently. That is scary for others.

I would not be surprised that for some portion of CDers it is all about the clothes and play acting for interest and stress relief. But perhaps dysphoria driven CDing is an important point for the women's group to consider. FABs each have their own version of what female means- and many struggle to varying degrees with social restrictions placed on their gender, just as we do. But if they are not aware of the murk of gender dysphoria, they generally won't understand in a really affirmative way why we would find acting as if we are female better than just being male and otherwise who we already are.

They wonder what in the heck we think being a woman means. It doesn't make sense to them for us to think we are/can be female since we obviously aren't, so trans* motivated crossdressing is just confusing and therefore offputting ! Most men won't regard trans men as men- but as weird wannabes- so it is a similar situation. No one is sure how to draw the line yet as to what constitutes being a woman or man.

As more of us are out and about as a visible and harmless minority, I know the fear and trembling will go away even if the confusion doesn't lessen. A trans man lived on a Wyoming ranch I worked- and that's how it was- she was a female man and respected as much as was possible for not understanding anything about her besides her kindness and competence, reliability, fearless steadiness, and determination. She was a class of human all her own out there-and I am sure very lonely.

The big win I'd like would be that enough of us appear to show there is a decent minority of male women and female men. Marriages will form and children be raised, etc.

[biancabellelover]

Hi sometimes_miss


It's also very telling about the ways that men resolve conflicts vs how women do. Men are way more likely to resort to violence because it's an accepted part of the male hierarchy in our society. In every group of men, each knows where he stands in the ability to fight, how much money he makes, how smart he is compared to the others, and how successful he is.

While I agree with the above comment, I feel that it's not relevant to the point that I was making. Which was about the random assaults. Many of the male victims in these assaults aren't in the "Let's step outside and settle this" scenario.

The victims of these assaults are from being 'king hit' (or 'Coward punch' as they are now called in Australia). These types of attack are completely unprovoked; often coming from behind. The point is, is that women are less likely to find themselves in these vulnerable positions. They will cross the street to avoid men. They look over their shoulders to check for people following, etc. The reason they do this is that from a very young age they're taught to be cautious. Men aren't taught this and put themselves in dangerous situations without realising it.


Won't happen. We know that we'd be derided for being chicken or worse, sissies, for being afraid of danger. Guys are NEVER supposed to admit or even hint that we might be afraid; both other men AND women will see it as weakness.

Who cares? Anyone deriding me will be laughed at! There are way too many epitaphs: "Died because he was afraid of being called a wuss"!

Michelle

[ellbee]

I don't want to derail this too much, but I couldn't help but think of this thread after seeing both of these recent ads...


This first one from Gillette has gotten a *lot* of flak -- from both men & women. Whether it's justified, I won't get into that. But it did get to the point where many disapproving comments & even "Dislikes" were removed, it was that bad. And people are boycotting them (and the products of their parent-company) because of this ad...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0

(NOTE: I can only post one video per post, so I'm not going to embed this one. But please watch first if you're not already familiar with it.)



On the flip side?

A small watch company put out a "response ad," which has gotten a lot of *praise* -- again, from both men & women. Hence, sales of their products have apparently been booming...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HL0wiK4Zc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HL0wiK4Zc



I suppose it's all about perspective, of how one willingly chooses to view or not view certain things...

[Eboni Robinson]

ellbee, Kelly DeWinter, and biancabellelover I love everything you ladies have brought to the discussion. A lot of people don't understand that everyone faces hardships and struggles. That is a fact of life, women have issues unique to them just as men do. Its just as dangerous being woman as it is being a man.

[donnalee]

sometimes miss If a woman get's pregnant, it's assumed to be the man's responsibility. [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
(Well yes, it takes a man's semen to fertilize an egg in a woman, unless the woman has invitro fertilization) Also men have many options including condoms)
If a man gets VD, it's not at all the woman's responsibility.,
(Hold on there cowgirl, yes it could be or it could be a gay lover, or it could be a toilet seat Some STD can last outside of the human body for up to 12 minutes)[LEFT][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana] Sorry, Kelly; you can't get VD from a toilet seat.

[deebra]

ellbee I'm with you on your threads having been on the short end of the stick more than once from females. So would you rather be a woman ?????

[MoGG]

It was something of a revelation to me that people could dislike women intensely and still wish to cross-dress as them. Quite an eye opener.

[Stephanie Julianna]

I don't think that my quality of life would be different if I could present as female. I already work as a nurse, an obviously female dominated profession, that allows me to be openly caring and emotionally sensitive without judgement. Interestingly, my wife was an corporate international tax accountant manager making 6 figures while I made the lower woman's pay. I have a very close relationship with all my grandchildren but will admit that I am closer to the granddaughters. I would hope that if they found out about Stephanie that nothing would change but I'm not sure I would want to test that. I don't think that presenting as female would change my love of old cars or anything else in this day and age. I think that my overall quality of life would improve solely because I would not be hiding anything about be and would for once feel whole. But I am a realist and understand that my liberalism about gender identity is still not that mainstream and acceptable. My wife has made it quite clear that she never wanted a girlfriend, she definitely wants a traditional husband or atleast whatever I can come close to as one. I just hope that in my next life I can return to being my complete self as a woman.

[Teresa]

Stephanie,
It's a trade off I'm having to live with less and less , also seeing less of the guy just makes me me far happier . I admit my relationship with my granddaughter is closer but then my daughter accepts me as Teresa whereas my son and his wife don't . Is it fair to say it's harder relating to boys rather than girls in that situation ? I guess we're back to the nature / nuture debate on this point , expectations of boys/men as opposed to females .

[ellbee]

It was something of a revelation to me that people could dislike women intensely and still wish to cross-dress as them. Quite an eye opener.

And in the same vein, I take it it's also a bit of surprise for one to realize that people could dislike men so intensely (e.g., hardcore male-bashing GG feminists) -- yet they still desire and fight tooth-&-nail to get to experience all that perceived male "privilege" (with the glaring exception of all the conveniently-overlooked disadvantages that automatically come with the territory, of course ;) ).




A lot of people don't understand that everyone faces hardships and struggles. That is a fact of life, women have issues unique to them just as men do.

I've said it here before elsewhere, and that remains my position. Being a guy/GG totally sucks, in all kinds of different ways. And on the flip side, being a guy/GG is totally awesome, too... Again, in all kinds of different ways.

It's called life. Get over it, folks. :)


Yet, some people still insist on claiming that one or the other has it worse/better. Hint: Neither does.

People are constantly pitted against one another along all sorts of "divides"... Male/female, black/white, left/right, rich/poor, gay/straight, North/South, whatever. Always "us versus them." Been going on for thousands of years, to boot. And it's been especially ramped-up with the advent of mass media & particularly the internet. Where does this even come from, honestly? Is it the real-world, the way it was originally intended?


Ah, a quick peek at the ol' dictionary...

divide and conquer idiom
variants: or divide and rule
Definition of divide and conquer

: to make a group of people disagree and fight with one another so that they will not join together against one


Nope, not just a cutesy little saying.

Instead, the seeds are planted & the fire is flamed intentionally. And many people (including myself sometimes) simply buy into it hook, line & sinker. I mean, hey... If we're too busy fighting among ourselves, then it's practically impossible to band together and recognize & fight the *true* enemies of this earth. Distraction & deception... Divide & conquer.

The puppet-masters are :roflmao: as they pull those strings, making us say & do & think/feel all kinds of crazy BS things that tear us apart.


On a basic fundamental level, people actually *do* share a lot in common with one another. And the OP sorta touched on this a bit...


As humans, we all need food, shelter, some means of support/job, and usually a hobby or two.

But with all the bickering & disunity going on, one wouldn't think this is the case, at all. "Weird" how that works, eh? :shush:




So would you rather be a woman ?????

I am what I am? :strugglin

I've got my own unique blend of "human expression" going on in this life... As we all do.

Mine just happens to be of a natal male. Why is that? Random fluke? Some kind of wish, or choice, or even decree, that's beyond the grasp of any person? No idea, couldn't tell you. Just is what it is.


And if I had been born a GG, or somewhere else along the TG spectrum, instead? Then I would simply accept it & play the cards I was dealt in life, to the best of my ability.

Would my life be different? In many ways, absolutely.

But fundamentally speaking, as the OP alluded to? Nope, not really. The basic gist is always there with each & every one of us. :)

[sometimes_miss]

So would you rather be a woman ?????
That's the question that I think a whole lot of women want to ask us, because they just, don't, have a clue as to how it feels to have GID. And personally, I think that a lot of us who feel, sometimes, that we WOULD like to be women, it's simply a response to want to get rid of the GID that keeps interfering with the rest of our lives. I could really do without the always present feeling that I'm supposed to be wearing girl clothes, and that I'm supposed to behave like a female. Or can't walk past a woman's clothing store without having to slow down, due to the yearning for something cute that I see in the window, and have to literally force myself to walk away instead of stop and appreciate just how pretty it is. Being a woman would resolve those problems, but also bring about all sorts of NEW problems that I do not currently have. Each sex has it's advantages and disadvantages; we don't get to choose. We have to 'play the cards we are dealt'.

[Jenny Elwood]

Well I would just like to state the unequivocal inalienably uncontested fact that: I don't know nothing about anything any more... :straightface:

[Teresa]

Jenny,
You're just kidding us , I loved your threads and comments , they came from someone fully in touch with herself !

It's good to see you again , it's been far too long , is it just a passing visit or are you here to stay for a while ?

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi Teresa. It is wonderful to see you again! :hugs: Ag, we'll see what transpires. The only thing that exceeds my fickleness is irreverence...